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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:I was specifically talking about the policy of war on drugs, I did not address welfare form. Those are separate issues. Also bullshit, the War on Drugs has been controversial as hell since the day it began
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Sep 14, 2015 22:06
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twodot posted:If you aren't crafting policy based on morality, then how can you expect the policies you create to be good? I don't care how effectively someone can go to war with Iraq, it was a bad idea. I don't think a President that robotically and effectively enacts whatever polls at 51% is a good idea. My father is a civil engineer. I pass a $2 trillion infrastructure bill with the goal of handing this contracts to my family and friends. It will also result in a massive redistribution to the working class, a sharp drop in unemployment, and put the country in an overwhelming position for future growth and economic dominance due to our now best in the world infrastructure. I want one party rule of the bureaucracy, since that is where a lot of the real power lies. So I pass a bill doing a complete top down reformation of how the government works, yanking back privatized functions, updating all our systems with a future focused technology policy and an org and reward system focused on fast user satisfaction and transparency; that way I can fire all the party X appointees as "redundant", push their past screwups to justify more firings as "transparency", and make the voters so happy and an easy to access and responsive government they don't let the bastards back in for a decade, kneecapping the oppositions ability to groom and promote new prospects. Evangelical support is critical to my opponents coalition, and they are mainly motivated by abortion opposition. So I pass a bill for free contraception, free family planning counseling, free prenatal care, comprehensive sex-Ed, a Nordic style "new parent support" giveaway, universals daycare/pre-K, and overhaul the adoption system making it easier for LBGT couples to adopt. Abortion falls to a quarter of its earlier numbers, he can't get out the vote, I cruise to reelection Don't tell me good policy is grounded in good morals. I could run this country like I'm Doctor Doom and enact policy that would have you all building statues to me.
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Sep 14, 2015 22:06
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this_is_hard posted:Also bullshit, the War on Drugs has been controversial as hell since the day it began I was specifically talking to the Clinton era policies that led to mass incarceration and their support among experts in the field at the time they passed to point out that it wasn't like, at the time, those policies weren't viewed as "good" or "correct" ways to solve a problem facing the nation.
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Sep 14, 2015 22:07
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:I was specifically talking about the policy of war on drugs, I did not address welfare form. Those are separate issues. First of all: they are not. Second of all: many people knew the drug war was a farce from the moment it started. Did most of those people have Ivy League PhDs? No, what they had was more important: they were members of the communities being destroyed in that War.
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Sep 14, 2015 22:08
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I like how we have pages and pages of  vs :bernget: when there is an impending government shutdown.
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Sep 14, 2015 22:09
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hobbesmaster posted:I like how we have pages and pages of I think we're just waiting for Tortilla Coast to open for the dinner crowd.
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Sep 14, 2015 22:09
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hobbesmaster posted:I like how we have pages and pages of I'm more than happy to talk about the impending government shutdown. 
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Sep 14, 2015 22:10
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One final note on good policy from good morality - Going into the election, Nixon was regarded as better on civil rights than Kennedy, and significantly better than LBJ. How did that shake out?
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Sep 14, 2015 22:10
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Raskolnikov38 posted:I think we're just waiting for Tortilla Coast to open for the dinner crowd. Yeah good point. Maybe they need a better happy hour. Or bring your own bbq or something.
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Sep 14, 2015 22:11
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An eternal rule of American politics is "Vermont doesn't count," which will be hammered home shortly.
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Sep 14, 2015 22:11
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SedanChair posted:Politicians who supported gay marriage (or any sort of gay rights) simply would not have been electable 10 years ago. 5 years ago, even. If you want a person who's been outspoken and perfect on gay rights for their entire career, wait 30 years. Then disdain them for not being outspoken on whatever sort of rights we suddenly decide are essential at that time. It depends a lot on the area and what political office they were running for as well to put things in context. Bill Clinton's gay rights support in 1992 would be considered weak if he were running as someone representing part of SF or NYC but beyond the pale if he were running in rural Texas. There are politicians who have had 30 or more years of support for gay rights, but they're very likely representing a big city or a liberal area.
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Sep 14, 2015 22:14
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There's currently a whole forum just for elections you guyshobbesmaster posted:I like how we have pages and pages of Yeah.
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Sep 14, 2015 22:14
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Fried Chicken posted:One final note on good policy from good morality - Going into the election, Nixon was regarded as better on civil rights than Kennedy, and significantly better than LBJ. How did that shake out? Also that had Watergate not broken, we would have likely gotten Nixoncare, which would have been further left than what Obamacare ended up being. Anyway, re the shutdown: Amber Phillips at WaPo has a good rundown on the likelihood and the things moving it http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/09/09/get-ready-experts-say-a-government-shutdown-is-likely/ BI NOW GAY LATER fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Sep 14, 2015 |
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Sep 14, 2015 22:15
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hobbesmaster posted:Yeah good point. Maybe they need a better happy hour. They really ought to discount the members of the HFC for all of the free advertising that they're getting. I'm visiting DC next month and I'm going to pop in for lunch.
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Sep 14, 2015 22:19
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Fried Chicken posted:Don't tell me good policy is grounded in good morals. I could run this country like I'm Doctor Doom and enact policy that would have you all building statues to me. Trabisnikof posted:You don't go to war in Iraq because it is bad for American policy interests.
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Sep 14, 2015 22:22
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Fried Chicken posted:Evangelical support is critical to my opponents coalition, and they are mainly motivated by abortion opposition. So I pass a bill for free contraception, free family planning counseling, free prenatal care, comprehensive sex-Ed, a Nordic style "new parent support" giveaway, universals daycare/pre-K, and overhaul the adoption system making it easier for LBGT couples to adopt. Abortion falls to a quarter of its earlier numbers, he can't get out the vote, I cruise to reelection You don't understand the evangelical movement at all if you think they wouldn't oppose this stuff as much as abortion. You're teaching children about sex you perverted godless monster.  They think contraceptives cause abortion so you don't actually lower the amount of abortions according to their views. You actually make it worse to them because people will have more sex now because [dumb fundie reasons] meaning more abortion-by-birth-control.
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Sep 14, 2015 22:23
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Zeroisanumber posted:They really ought to discount the members of the HFC for all of the free advertising that they're getting. I'm visiting DC next month and I'm going to pop in for lunch. I guess there really is no such thing as bad publicity.
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Sep 14, 2015 22:23
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Fried Chicken posted:My father is a civil engineer. I pass a $2 trillion infrastructure bill with the goal of handing this contracts to my family and friends. It will also result in a massive redistribution to the working class, a sharp drop in unemployment, and put the country in an overwhelming position for future growth and economic dominance due to our now best in the world infrastructure. Not gonna lie, I could get behind some honest graft and a road to heaven paved with bad intentions.
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Sep 14, 2015 22:38
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:I don't think she needs to say "I apologize." She said "I was wrong and I have evolved on the issue." Which is sufficient for me, an actual LGBT person. Well we've heard from an actual LGBT person, I guess we should stop having opinions guys.
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Sep 14, 2015 23:05
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Zeroisanumber posted:They really ought to discount the members of the HFC for all of the free advertising that they're getting. I'm visiting DC next month and I'm going to pop in for lunch. You might want to reconsider that. Joementum (at least I think it was Joementum) has remarked several times on the subpar quality of the food.
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Sep 14, 2015 23:08
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ComradeCosmobot posted:You might want to reconsider that. Joementum (at least I think it was Joementum) has remarked several times on the subpar quality of the food. Yeah, Tortilla Coast is terrible. There's actual good food, even decent Mexican food, in DC, don't do that to yourself. (If you want good tacos, go to Tacos al Chilango or Super Tacos and Bakery. STB also does good tamales but pretty mediocre burritos, so don't get burritos there.)
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Sep 14, 2015 23:13
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Brannock posted:This is from three hours ago so please forgive me for dredging up an old post (and I'm sorry to continue the slapfight) but these accusations are completely bullshit. Andichu here you go, an extensively sourced comparison of the two on issues I find important, as well as a pretty good illustration of why Clinton is a literal lizard person. At least this is some actual concrete stuff instead of whining about ideological purity and strategical voting. Actual issues! I'm just looking into each linked article but there is some real questionable stuff in there, like stating that Hillary supports for profit prisons because a lobbyist that does business with them and others has been a bundler for her in the past. Some good links tho.
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Sep 14, 2015 23:17
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You're so much smarter than that Andichu, why stoop down to this level?
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Don't you get it? The candidate who has a record of supporting retarded loving garbage, who is in the pocket of wall street, who has a problem with being perceived as untrustworthy by Americans, who is losing support (while the other guy gains it), is clearly the best choice for running America!
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Sep 14, 2015 23:29
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Rah! posted:Don't you get it? The candidate who has a record of supporting retarded loving garbage, who is in the pocket of wall street, who has a problem with being perceived as untrustworthy by Americans, who is losing support (while the other guy gains it), is clearly the best choice for running America! So you're an avid Trump supporter I take it?
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Sep 14, 2015 23:40
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Rah! posted:Don't you get it? The candidate who has a record of supporting retarded loving garbage, who is in the pocket of wall street, who has a problem with being perceived as untrustworthy by Americans, who is losing support (while the other guy gains it), is clearly the best choice for running America! I hate to point this out, but the Democratic primary process does not actually decide who is going to run America
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Sep 14, 2015 23:49
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Trump can't be stumped by facts. And all of his primary opponents will endorse him when the time comes because they are bustas.
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Sep 14, 2015 23:51
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Radbot posted:Well we've heard from an actual LGBT person, I guess we should stop having opinions guys. Or maybe take the writing between the lines that LGBT community isn't as upset by her past as you are?
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Sep 14, 2015 23:53
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somebody tried to preemptively justify the impending hilary vs bernie slapfight by saying people talk about republican candidate infighting all the time in this thread, which is true, but the fact of the matter is that it's possible to bring up republican candidates without peoples heads exploding or i should say, its possible to tune out the trump supporters but for some reason people here just cant keep away from the sander fan bait e: rah is way more obvious than migf but they already have two earnest bites and counting. d+d cant be trusted to talk about bernie sanders
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Sep 14, 2015 23:53
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Raerlynn posted:Or maybe take the writing between the lines that LGBT community isn't as upset by her past as you are? As a trans woman I'd rather have Bernie than Hillary. It's almost as if the LGBT community is as frayed as any other 'community' and individuals within it are individuals.  Anyway, my issue with Hillary is one people have touched on, mobilizing people. How does Hillary get people out there beyond saying "I'm not a Republican." I feel Obama had a lot of support because he could do more than just not be a Republican. If Hillary's only positive is she isn't a Republican I'd be very worried, and at least from where I am her only point is that she isn't a Republican. So I guess what way does Hillary get people to motivated to vote for her and not just against Republicans?
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Sep 15, 2015 00:21
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ComradeCosmobot posted:You might want to reconsider that. Joementum (at least I think it was Joementum) has remarked several times on the subpar quality of the food. I like to think that I'm this thread's official "DC Native who preaches about how lovely that place is." Just make sure when you go, go to the one near Capitol Hill. There's another location, and if you're going to go, at least go to the right one and go pee in the basement, where the restrooms as well as their secret meeting place are
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Sep 15, 2015 00:22
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hobbesmaster posted:I like how we have pages and pages of Ted Cruz is throwing a tantrum, so what?
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Sep 15, 2015 00:42
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:I was specifically talking to the Clinton era policies that led to mass incarceration and their support among experts in the field at the time they passed to point out that it wasn't like, at the time, those policies weren't viewed as "good" or "correct" ways to solve a problem facing the nation. The more interesting part of her argument was that there was support for a tough stance on drug crime from the black community at the time, because there was. It wasn't universal and there was criticism as well as support for that approach, but the problem that was being responded to at the time was outright violence over the drug trade threatening the lives of people in the communities involved, and that lead to a lot of support for a crackdown from more conservative elements of those communities that was seen as more urgent than the long-term consequences of that approach. Of course, I don't think many of the people involved (on the left-wing anyhow) really pictured those laws being used to lock people away for marijuana possession as if they were caught with the same weight of cocaine.
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Sep 15, 2015 00:51
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Today I made my first tweet ever. I tweeted Donald Trump this very important question: "If China refuses to renegotiate trade deals to bring back jobs to america, would you consider a military intervention?" I have a feeling this will remain unanswered.
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Sep 15, 2015 00:57
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Eimi posted:Anyway, my issue with Hillary is one people have touched on, mobilizing people. How does Hillary get people out there beyond saying "I'm not a Republican." I feel Obama had a lot of support because he could do more than just not be a Republican. If Hillary's only positive is she isn't a Republican I'd be very worried, and at least from where I am her only point is that she isn't a Republican. So I guess what way does Hillary get people to motivated to vote for her and not just against Republicans? To a certain degree, she can look to support from Bill and Obama for that. At the same time, that and the related issue of showing that she recognizes and is responding to the demand for left-wing policies should definitely be her top priorities. Sanders has also brought a lot of people to the party who are there on the basis of his appeal and policies, and I really hope she can solidify their support. At the same time, a substantial portion of those people (at least online) either buy into right-wing memes about her or are pretty misogynistic in general. The former and those who are otherwise just genuinely energized by Sanders are really cool and great to see involved and I hope she can at least make a case for herself without alienating them. And that their support is deep enough to persist if she does win.
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Sep 15, 2015 01:02
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Eimi posted:Anyway, my issue with Hillary is one people have touched on, mobilizing people. How does Hillary get people out there beyond saying "I'm not a Republican." I feel Obama had a lot of support because he could do more than just not be a Republican. She used a little known person named Bernie Sanders to get voters excited about Democrats.
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Sep 15, 2015 01:25
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computer parts posted:She used a little known person named Bernie Sanders to get voters excited about Democrats. One weird trick to get voters involved (Republicans hate it!)
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Sep 15, 2015 01:30
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Hodgepodge posted:One weird trick to get voters involved (Republicans hate it!) It will be fun to see Sanders stump for Clinton.
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Sep 15, 2015 01:38
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Eimi posted:As a trans woman I'd rather have Bernie than Hillary. It's almost as if the LGBT community is as frayed as any other 'community' and individuals within it are individuals. Hillary gets people motivated by...saying and "believing" whatever has been focus tested by her well paid experts to be what the most people want her to say and believe I guess?
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Sep 15, 2015 01:55
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Fried Chicken posted:My father is a civil engineer. I pass a $2 trillion infrastructure bill with the goal of handing this contracts to my family and friends. It will also result in a massive redistribution to the working class, a sharp drop in unemployment, and put the country in an overwhelming position for future growth and economic dominance due to our now best in the world infrastructure.
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Sep 15, 2015 01:59
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So is Walker pretty much done now that he's released his plan to destroy federal unions?
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Sep 15, 2015 02:00
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