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Mostly because even I think my vote was weak and the reasoning is sketchy. It was a good jumping in point for me because I hadn't posted except a confirmation post.
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Sep 16, 2015 16:56
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| # ? Apr 29, 2024 00:39 |
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 Day 1 Votecount Grandicap (2): PoP, Kashuno a worthy uhh/Me in Reverse (2): Asiina, SSV SirSamVimes (1): TMM, MiR, Kashuno, -TMM, -Kashuno TMMadman (1): SSV, -SSV, PMom merk (1): Ninth BottleKnight (1): TMM Pinterest Mom (1): Grandi Kashuno (1): LJ  13 alive, 7 to execute. Day 1 deadline: Thursday, September 17th, ~11PM EDT. That's in about a day and a half from this post! Remember to #unvote!
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Sep 16, 2015 17:09
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Pinterest Mom posted:this is it. this is the awkward scum post i've been waiting for. Yeah, no. I thought you were going for some sort of interaction to learn more last night but if that's really your whole thing, nah.
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Sep 16, 2015 17:11
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BottleKnight posted:Yeah, no. He couldn't have been trying for interaction because when I responded his only reply is to say that mafia is easy and he doesn't even try to engage me.
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Sep 16, 2015 17:24
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BottleKnight posted:Yeah, no. "Nah" scum or "nah" wrong?
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Sep 16, 2015 17:25
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Grandicap posted:Mostly because even I think my vote was weak and the reasoning is sketchy. It was a good jumping in point for me because I hadn't posted except a confirmation post. This is a scumpost
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Sep 16, 2015 17:26
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It just might be!
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Sep 16, 2015 17:31
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Pinterest Mom posted:"Nah" scum or "nah" wrong? Nah wrong. Don't see it.
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Sep 16, 2015 17:31
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BottleKnight posted:Nah wrong. Don't see it. TMM responded in a v. prickly way, and called me scum in a roundabout way without voting (or actually explicitly doing it!). I don't feel bad about my vote.
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Sep 16, 2015 17:34
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Pinterest Mom posted:TMM responded in a v. prickly way, and called me scum in a roundabout way without voting (or actually explicitly doing it!). I don't feel bad about my vote. I took 'twists it to their needs' as 'tunneling' instead of 'because they are trying to control the narrative as scum.' Not that it's a good argument either way, but him saying you're wrong doesn't make him scum.
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Sep 16, 2015 18:04
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Pinterest Mom posted:TMM responded in a v. prickly way, and called me scum in a roundabout way without voting (or actually explicitly doing it!). I don't feel bad about my vote. Except I did no such thing, so you are seeing what you want to see. My first reply was: TMMadman posted:It's not the first time you've been wrong and doubtlessly not the last time either. There's no implication of an alignment call, I'm simply saying that you're wrong. Wrong doesn't mean scum. My second reply was: TMMadman posted:It's always amusing when someone takes a completely honest statement and twists it to suit their needs. Again, there is no implication of alignment. You may be town or you may be scum, but either way you're taking a completely honest statement and twisting it to suit your needs. Town twist honest statements just as often as scum. However, right now I'm bothered that you seem so concerned that people don't see you as scum. First you ask LJ to ignore meta and make another read on you which just feels off to me. Then you make sure that BK thinks your wrong and not scum. You're not asking them to clarify positions, you're strictly concerned with yourself.
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Sep 16, 2015 18:05
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💩
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Sep 16, 2015 18:26
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Kashuno posted:
Nope it wasn't.
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Sep 16, 2015 18:26
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TMMadman posted:Except I did no such thing, so you are seeing what you want to see. My first reply was: this is unadulterated bullshit. town doesn't have a post-twisting agenda. you're backing away from your initial statement. quote:However, right now I'm bothered that you seem so concerned that people don't see you as scum. First you ask LJ to ignore meta and make another read on you which just feels off to me. Then you make sure that BK thinks your wrong and not scum. lj commented on grandi's vote on me with this: ljtrigirl posted:That's one of the many things that bothered me about PMlast game, so I don't think I like this vote. This is a very slippery statement! Does lj not "like" the vote because she thinks it's wrong, or because she thinks it's scummy? Why does she invoke meta - is grandi supposed to have the same sense of my meta that lj does? I'm asking lj re:grandi, not lj re:me~
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Sep 16, 2015 18:31
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TMMadman posted:Again, there is no implication of alignment. You may be town or you may be scum, but either way you're taking a completely honest statement and twisting it to suit your needs. Town twist honest statements just as often as scum. Since the complete honesty part of that isn't a given so your first response quoted there doesn't really say anything beyond what everyone's implied to be saying (I'm town, if someone thinks I'm not then they're wrong) if there's not an alignment call element in there. When someone uses "twist" there's an implied dishonesty to how something's being framed - if you meant that at the time, why stay neutral over PM's alignment? It reads like you want to vote him as soon as he votes you and you're trying to justify it more with each post since then while leaving a jokey vote on BottleKnight.
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Sep 16, 2015 18:33
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Pinterest Mom posted:this is unadulterated bullshit. town doesn't have a post-twisting agenda. you're backing away from your initial statement. Commenting on the first part. That is so wrong. Part of making cases is making them voteable. Twisting a statement to fit an agenda is something both town and scum do. The goal of casing is always to get someone lynched. To not do so is to make a crappy case.
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Sep 16, 2015 18:41
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itt; reading comprehension 101.
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Sep 16, 2015 18:42
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This feels like every other game I've played with Madman where he can't separate what he knows from what others know regarding his alignment, so he seems town to me.
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Sep 16, 2015 18:50
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Grandicap posted:Commenting on the first part. That is so wrong. Part of making cases is making them voteable. Twisting a statement to fit an agenda is something both town and scum do. The goal of casing is always to get someone lynched. To not do so is to make a crappy case. Well it depends on what's setting that agenda. If it's like D4 and you're town trying to draw connections with flipped scum, yeah you have to twist things to fit the "x and y are scum together" narrative to see what the best match is in that situation. That's not relevant here because PM was voting based off of a single data point in jokephase. Why would you need to twist anything as town there?
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Sep 16, 2015 18:50
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I'm town. Let's all agree on that.
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Sep 16, 2015 18:54
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Grandicap posted:Nope it wasn't. this is another low content scumpost
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Sep 16, 2015 18:56
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Kashuno posted:itt; reading comprehension 101. Kashuno posted:
I don't like Kashuno for calling out someone when he's provided nothing of substance of his own. Also Grandi made other posts commenting on Madman and PMom, which Kashuno hasn't done, but he ignores those entirely. ##unvote ##vote Kashuno
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Sep 16, 2015 19:01
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Power of Pecota posted:Well it depends on what's setting that agenda. If it's like D4 and you're town trying to draw connections with flipped scum, yeah you have to twist things to fit the "x and y are scum together" narrative to see what the best match is in that situation. That's not relevant here because PM was voting based off of a single data point in jokephase. Why would you need to twist anything as town there? So you've never made a bad faith argument on D1/D2 against someone you think is town in order to try and catch scum jumping on that bad case?
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Sep 16, 2015 19:05
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I don't think pmom went in very hard. I am having a hard time getting a read on TMM, but he's not pinging me as especially scummy. Like Asiina said, TMM usually doesn't do well separating his knowledge from the knowledge other players have
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Sep 16, 2015 19:07
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Grandi made a horrible case, then backtracked on it when people started calling him out and basically said "yeah I did make a bad case heheh." It's lovely and his posting around it hasn't been good.
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Sep 16, 2015 19:09
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TMMadman posted:So you've never made a bad faith argument on D1/D2 against someone you think is town in order to try and catch scum jumping on that bad case? No, I don't make bad faith cases as town.
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Sep 16, 2015 19:09
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Power of Pecota posted:No, I don't make bad faith cases as town. So you've never seen it done either?
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Sep 16, 2015 19:13
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TMMadman posted:So you've never seen it done either? I have, but not very often. I think Pmom's made it pretty clear that's not the case here so I'm not seeing why it's relevant.
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Sep 16, 2015 19:18
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TMMadman posted:So you've never made a bad faith argument on D1/D2 against someone you think is town in order to try and catch scum jumping on that bad case? Wait. So you actually think PMom set this whole thing up to be a trap sprung? And you're using that as a defense?
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Sep 16, 2015 19:47
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TMMadman posted:So you've never made a bad faith argument on D1/D2 against someone you think is town in order to try and catch scum jumping on that bad case? This is terrible reasoning in a response in defense of a third player. I don't like it one bit. ##unvote ##vote TMM
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Sep 16, 2015 19:47
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BottleKnight posted:Wait. So you actually think PMom set this whole thing up to be a trap sprung? And you're using that as a defense? No I'm just pointing out that PMom and PoP are holding an intellectually dishonest position by saying that town never has a reason to twist a statement to their needs.
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Sep 16, 2015 19:51
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a worthy uhh posted:This is terrible reasoning in a response in defense of a third player. I don't like it one bit. This vote may actually fall under Madman's Law.
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Sep 16, 2015 19:54
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TMMadman posted:Madman's Law 
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Sep 16, 2015 19:58
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to be fair, I coined the term.
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Sep 16, 2015 19:59
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Kashuno posted:to be fair, I coined the term. well let's get all circlejerky about it!
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Sep 16, 2015 20:00
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Someday it's going to get put to the test in a game and I will be ecstatic when it hits scum.
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Sep 16, 2015 20:01
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it's d1 do it now and then we can all lynch you out of spite tomorrow.
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Sep 16, 2015 20:03
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Kashuno posted:it's d1 do it now and then we can all lynch you out of spite tomorrow. Is this a slip? How do you know uhh isn't scum?
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Sep 16, 2015 20:05
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What's Madman's law?TMMadman posted:No I'm just pointing out that PMom and PoP are holding an intellectually dishonest position by saying that town never has a reason to twist a statement to their needs. You forgot the "in jokephase on D1" part. Earnestness is like the #1 thing that town has going for them in mafia, just because people have done early gambits before with fake cases or n0 claims or something doesn't mean you should assume it going in. Even if you thought that was what PMom was doing in this game, what's the purpose of arguing with it?
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Sep 16, 2015 20:08
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| # ? Apr 29, 2024 00:39 |
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TMMadman posted:This vote may actually fall under Madman's Law. What
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Sep 16, 2015 20:10
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