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TMMadman posted:That has to be the weakest reason ever to vote someone. Everyone has been talking about lurkers ruining games. The easiest way to stop that from happening to consistently call out lurkers, so that is what I am going to do. It is not indicative of my alignment and when I flip that will be proved true. Okay. So that's why you're doing it this time, midway through D1. Why were you doing it last time, early on D1, as scum? Are you really saying there's this big difference?
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Sep 17, 2015 04:13
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| # ? Apr 28, 2024 23:37 |
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Early lurker pokes rub me the wrong way because D1 can be difficult to engage with. It's when people continue to lurk into late D1 and D2 that they prove to be a problem.
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Sep 17, 2015 04:18
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BottleKnight posted:Okay. So that's why you're doing it this time, midway through D1. Why were you doing it last time, early on D1, as scum? Are you really saying there's this big difference? I'm doing it and will always do it because lurkers suck the life out of a game. Town or scum, lurking is lame. Calling it out is not indicative of my alignment. If I feel there are too many people lurking early in a game, I am absolutely going to call it out regardless of my alignment if nobody else is already doing it. There has been lots of discussion in the general thread about lurkers and no real consensus on how to deal with them. The easiest way to deal with it is to call them out regardless of your alignment and be willing to vote them out early. I've been somewhat hesitant to vote the lurkers early, but after X-COM II game and Asiina forcing a lurker scum lynch on D1 I have much less qualms about it. Plus, as I said, several of those people were around enough to make a couple of snipes, but nobody put forth any sort of read. Meanwhile, we are hounding Grandi for a low content scum post, while letting several other low content posts slide by during the whole conversation.
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Sep 17, 2015 04:22
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SirSamVimes posted:Early lurker pokes rub me the wrong way because D1 can be difficult to engage with. It's when people continue to lurk into late D1 and D2 that they prove to be a problem. And we are late into D1 with under a day left to go.
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Sep 17, 2015 04:24
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TMMPinterest Mom posted:Make the case for scum Pecota.
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Sep 17, 2015 04:26
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TMMadman posted:I'm doing it and will always do it because lurkers suck the life out of a game. Town or scum, lurking is lame. Calling it out is not indicative of my alignment. If I feel there are too many people lurking early in a game, I am absolutely going to call it out regardless of my alignment if nobody else is already doing it. I get it. You have this narrative for this game, and you're sticking to it. But you didn't have it last time, where you posted it largely as white noise. (A lot of people accused you of white noise early in that game.) So I don't buy this big guilt argument that lurkers are this big problem and that's why you're acting like the big hero here. You keep repeating it like that's what I have my issue with.
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Sep 17, 2015 04:28
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Pinterest Mom posted:Make the case for scum Pecota. She (?) actually borders on the almost lurker like SSV and Asiina. My main issue is that I feel she was being intellectually dishonest during the whole twisting statement debate. She has also said a lot of words, but so far her only vote is early on Grandi and then she has said a bunch of words without actually making any sort of reads.
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Sep 17, 2015 04:53
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BottleKnight posted:I get it. You have this narrative for this game, and you're sticking to it. But you didn't have it last time, where you posted it largely as white noise. (A lot of people accused you of white noise early in that game.) So I don't buy this big guilt argument that lurkers are this big problem and that's why you're acting like the big hero here. You keep repeating it like that's what I have my issue with. Then what is your issue here? I'm not some big hero and don't think of myself as one. I think that as a community we should constantly be pressuring any lurkers to post more and that is the best solution to the lurking issue that has been dragging games down lately. This game started on the 14th, so 2 days ago. This is the entirety of ANarc's posts since that point: AnonymousNarcotics posted:Man I hate being vt. Boring. AnonymousNarcotics posted:Asiina we are neighbors AnonymousNarcotics posted:Ooh I like this backstory The last one was made over 24 hours ago. So how is that supposed to be helpful or productive to the game? In fact, it stinks so much I'll just put my words into practice. ##unvote ##vote ANarc I'm tired of lurkers, town or scum. So I'll vote the biggest lurker in the game right now.
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Sep 17, 2015 04:59
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TMMadman posted:Then what is your issue here? My argument is that that is your narrative for this game. The whole our community is under siege thing. But you've done it before, to fake content, as scum. That wasn't your excuse then. So it is not alignment-neutral, you are doing this to force and pad your content, just like the last game. You are posting a whole lot of white noise, which is completely reminiscent of your scum game.
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Sep 17, 2015 05:07
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BottleKnight posted:My argument is that that is your narrative for this game. The whole our community is under siege thing. But you've done it before, to fake content, as scum. That wasn't your excuse then. So it is not alignment-neutral, you are doing this to force and pad your content, just like the last game. You are posting a whole lot of white noise, which is completely reminiscent of your scum game. Well, then just like PMom you'd be wrong about me. Not the first time and doubtlessly not the last time. I'm not worried because my flip will prove it in time.
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Sep 17, 2015 05:12
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Gut read here but I really don't like how Kashuno started out with just dropping in "this is a scum post" without giving reasoning for it. He made a rather tunnelly case on Grandicap which was entirely based on their difference of opinion on what is considered a case. I'm still not entirely convinced that the assumption that TMM is town is a slip, but upon rereading the thread I do get some ~vibes~ from him.
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Sep 17, 2015 10:08
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SirSamVimes posted:Gut read here but I really don't like how Kashuno started out with just dropping in "this is a scum post" without giving reasoning for it. He made a rather tunnelly case on Grandicap which was entirely based on their difference of opinion on what is considered a case. I'm still not entirely convinced that the assumption that TMM is town is a slip, but upon rereading the thread I do get some ~vibes~ from him.  This is a scum post. It's nothing but hedgy bullshit.
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Sep 17, 2015 13:47
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A gut read with some backing is hedgy bullshit?
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Sep 17, 2015 13:52
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TMM stop stealing my gimmick.
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Sep 17, 2015 13:53
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SirSamVimes posted:A gut read with some backing is hedgy bullshit? There is more than enough content to work with to do more than just post a ~gut~ read.
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Sep 17, 2015 14:07
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TMMadman posted:
Is this a case?
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Sep 17, 2015 14:36
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Grandicap posted:Is this a case? According to Kashuno, it can't be because I didn't put a vote down.
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Sep 17, 2015 14:48
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TMMadman posted:
Kashuno posted:and for completion sake, the above is an opinion, not a vote or a case.
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Sep 17, 2015 14:52
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I got one player in to my big huge list post, and I came up with this! I'll post other player reads as requested, but this stood out and I know people hate when I make huge wall of text full game analyses. a worthy uhh/me in reverse TMM inserts himself into a discussion (very weakly), which prompts a worthy uhh posted:This is terrible reasoning in a response in defense of a third player. I don't like it one bit. Which is fine. I don't agree that it was enough to put a vote down, but okay. However, later TMM hops on me for a scum slip and we get: a worthy uhh posted:This is arguably actually a good catch. With no vote. A little later a scumpost call on BK, but nothing. Later, we get back into a discussion about my if/then statement (which, admittedly, was not phrased as an if/then) and we get: a worthy uhh posted:I am aware of the majority/minority dynamics. The issue was his leap to acting on my town flip as an inevitability; his thought went straight to what to do Day 2 after I've flipped town. This implies knowledge he shouldn't have. a worthy uhh posted:Lynch [me] now so we can lynch [TMM] tomorrow out of spite [after I flip town] And yet, after all that discussion about how TMM caught me in a slip and then talking about how I continue to be defensive and implying I have outside knowledge, not once does uhh switch their vote to me. ##vote a worthy uhh
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Sep 17, 2015 15:31
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sorry, ##unvote ##vote a worthy uhh
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Sep 17, 2015 15:32
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Also re: let's vote lurkers from TMM. I don't like your push to lynch lurkers on d1, and this was your play in Pearl where we would waste town kills on lurkers while you and your scumbros could take out high content townies, ultimately letting town kill themselves. It strongly reads scummy to me.
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Sep 17, 2015 16:11
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Kashuno posted:I got one player in to my big huge list post, and I came up with this! I'll post other player reads as requested, but this stood out and I know people hate when I make huge wall of text full game analyses. This post is fluffed up hard when really it could be condensed to "did not change his vote". I vote when I feel like voting, clearly there is no rush and I am not hiding or hedging my opinions. Secondarily, I am going to restate, clarify, or further express myself when I am responded to, and debating a point does not somehow force me to be further down any specific avenue of thought. "Scumslips" are very debatable, and based on the rest of your play so far has not warranted my vote. Or I'd be voting you. RE: TMM, it seems that everyone TMM thinks is scum either disagreed or debated with him. That's just bad play and almost makes me think he's just town and bad at mafia
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Sep 17, 2015 17:09
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SirSamVimes posted:A gut read with some backing is hedgy bullshit? "Here's a list of things, but maybe maybe not!" is pretty hedgy, and that's essentially what that post was.
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Sep 17, 2015 17:10
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That Kashuno case on MiR is just "here's a bunch of things that happened" without any real analysis and then a vote at the end. What is even the point?
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Sep 17, 2015 17:20
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a worthy uhh posted:RE: TMM, it seems that everyone TMM thinks is scum either disagreed or debated with him. That's just bad play and almost makes me think he's just town and bad at mafia He's done this as town twice before in games I've been in with him, which is why I think he's town here.
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Sep 17, 2015 17:22
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a worthy uhh posted:This post is fluffed up hard when really it could be condensed to "did not change his vote". I vote when I feel like voting, clearly there is no rush and I am not hiding or hedging my opinions. Fair points. ##unvote
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Sep 17, 2015 18:04
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I understand if you guys thing TMM being blustery is alignment-neutral but he is literally repeating his D1 from Pearl of Port Lourde, where he was scum.
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Sep 17, 2015 18:20
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I'd be happy to lynch him.
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Sep 17, 2015 18:21
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 Current Day 1 Votecount TMMadman (3): SSV, -SSV, PMom, MiR, BK Kashuno (2): LJ, Asiina, Grandi, -LJ BottleKnight (1): TMM, LJ, -TMM AnonymousNarcotics (1): TMM Grandicap (1): PoP, Kashuno, -Kashuno a worthy uhh/Me in Reverse (1): Asiina, SSV, -Asiina, Kashuno, -Kashuno Grandicap (0): BK, -BK SirSamVimes (0): TMM, MiR, Kashuno, -TMM, -Kashuno, -MiR ljtrigirl (0): TMM, -TMM Pinterest Mom (0): Grandi, -Grandi merk (0): Ninth, -Ninth  13 alive, 7 to execute. Day 1 deadline: Thursday, September 17th, ~11PM EDT. That's in about nine hours from this post! Remember to #unvote!
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Sep 17, 2015 18:58
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I'm super busy at work today + was busy killing it at bar trivia last night but I'll be around and catching up in the hours before the deadline tonight
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Sep 17, 2015 19:20
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I was poker for not posting. I'm in San Antonio for work but will try to look in detail at the airport. ##vote Grandi - this is all I remember from my stuff earlier.
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Sep 17, 2015 20:02
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I got prodded too. Uhh, give me some time to get some coffee in me, and I'll give everything another look. Mostly what I've seen is a lot of overblown nothing.
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Sep 17, 2015 20:48
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Everyone with posts lower than mine but who had yet to post today received prods a few hours ago! This meant merk Ninth and Anon, hooray! Deadline is in 7 hours toot toot. It will NOT be floating so muster those votes!
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Sep 17, 2015 20:52
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a worthy uhh posted:This post is fluffed up hard when really it could be condensed to "did not change his vote". I vote when I feel like voting, clearly there is no rush and I am not hiding or hedging my opinions. Except you haven't really posted any major opinions. The only stance or call you've made is that I'm scum and everything else has been a non opinion. Second, you haven't bothered to respond to a question I've asked twice about the supposed scum slip. I'll ask it a third time: do you think that I'm still scum and that I'm bussing Kash? Or do you think that I'm still scum who is just trying to move the vote off me? Finally, in your last paragraph you state that you think I may just be town, but still don't remove your vote from me. So you are hedging right in the very post I quoted, despite saying that you haven't been hedging. So again, am I scum or not?
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Sep 17, 2015 21:17
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BottleKnight posted:I understand if you guys thing TMM being blustery is alignment-neutral but he is literally repeating his D1 from Pearl of Port Lourde, where he was scum. Do you really think that I would play the same way as scum that I did the last time in an Ecco game? Do you have a read on me that isn't based on a single meta point?
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Sep 17, 2015 21:18
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Okay I read over TMM and I don't really see him as scum. Having seen him as scum in the last game I played, most of his posts were completely empty word dumps with no actual content in them. His one big reads post felt pretty genuine to me and had some good stuff in it, and I like how he has defended his lurker callouts. I do think he could say twice as much in half the words if he put his mind to it, nobody wants to read eight-paragraph posts or posts with four quotes in them.
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Sep 17, 2015 21:18
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I've been debating whether I want to vote Grandicap, the reason I haven't yet is because I don't think scum would have stuck around defending the semantics of "case" for so long. Points against him for backing down very self-consciously, and personally I don't like anyone for town who characterizes their own play as scummy or scummy-looking.
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Sep 17, 2015 21:21
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TMMadman posted:Except you haven't really posted any major opinions. The only stance or call you've made is that I'm scum and everything else has been a non opinion. Here's the secret you seem to fail to understand: It is Day 1 and we are all guessing. I can think two people are scummy independently despite interactions between them, and you can too, and that's okay. Not everything has to fit a predefined narrative. I don't have an agenda to paint anyone as any specific thing other than "acting scummy". I have yet to find a better vote than you, so much like Kash, your vote policing is of no real value.
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Sep 17, 2015 21:26
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a worthy uhh posted:Here's the secret you seem to fail to understand: And I'm trying to get you to clarify those positions. Do you think I'm scum bussing Kash? Do you think I'm scum trying to remove the vote and jumping on something easy from Kash? These aren't hard questions to answer, so why do you keep avoiding them?
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Sep 17, 2015 21:29
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Honestly outside of Grandicap my suspicions fall off pretty hard. I don't see Kashuno's case on MiR and even he didn't keep the case going on for long. BottleKnight's vote on TMM was a pretty easy one to make, but was it a scummy vote?? I'm not sure. I don't find Kashuno especially scummy either. Pretty much everyone else has left little to no distinguishing impression on me. So, might as well ##vote Grandicap while I see if I can find a better home for my vote.
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Sep 17, 2015 21:30
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