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TMMadman posted:Except you're voting to lynch a townie right now. You seriously need to stop saying poo poo like this. It's like you have no theory of mind whatsoever. You're a loving toddler. Other people have different information than you! We don't know your goddamn alignment. That's the whole point of the loving game.
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Sep 17, 2015 23:10
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Asiina for all the arguments you have made against lurkers in the general thread, why are you balking at killing one now? It's a person who has made all of 3 posts in the past two days. Now I'm willing to give her a pass for the first day because it's joke phase, but at this point she should have at least come in with some kind of opinion.
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Sep 17, 2015 23:12
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Asiina posted:You seriously need to stop saying poo poo like this. It's like you have no theory of mind whatsoever. You're a loving toddler. No I don't need to stop saying it because it's true. I don't care if you don't believe me. My flip will prove it to be true.
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Sep 17, 2015 23:13
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TMMadman posted:No I don't need to stop saying it because it's true. I don't care if you don't believe me. My flip will prove it to be true. We will get much more information from your flip than a lurker lynch and presupposedly lose a townie in either scenario, so isn't it better to lynch you?
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Sep 17, 2015 23:16
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TMMadman posted:Asiina for all the arguments you have made against lurkers in the general thread, why are you balking at killing one now? There is a huge difference for what is good for the state of the game (as in, forums mafia) as a whole and what is strategic for us in this game, dude. I don't want to mafia dad you but if you lynch a lurker, and they flip town, you get NOTHING. If you lynch them and they flip scum, you can't go back through their interactions to see who else might be scum.
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Sep 17, 2015 23:16
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TMMadman posted:Asiina for all the arguments you have made against lurkers in the general thread, why are you balking at killing one now? I agree it's a super lovely thing to do, and has absolutely nothing to do with joke phase (where did that even come from), but this is why lurking is bad and why I complain about it so much in the discussion thread. It hurts the game no matter what you do. If you ignore them forever the game stagnates and dies, but if you lynch them then you are wasting town's primary mode of action on what is essentially a shot in the dark that will help you not at all the next day even if you are right. Lurking cannot be solved within the game because it hurts the game no matter what is done about it.
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Sep 17, 2015 23:18
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And yet all everyone does is complain about lurkers. The way to stop people from lurking is to vote out the lurkers early. Sure, some games are going to take a hit from it but eventually people will stop lurking so hard and actually play the game they signed up to play.
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Sep 17, 2015 23:18
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I told myself I wasn't going to get into an argument with Madman this game, but here we are and it's the same stupid poo poo every time.
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Sep 17, 2015 23:20
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TMMadman posted:And yet all everyone does is complain about lurkers. The way to stop people from lurking is to vote out the lurkers early. Sure, some games are going to take a hit from it but eventually people will stop lurking so hard and actually play the game they signed up to play. So you're taking a meta moral stance at the cost of harming town success in this game? Gotcha. Leaving a lurker alive at this point is a better option than leaving you alive, because they might be able to positively contribute should they start playing or get replaced.
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Sep 17, 2015 23:21
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TMMadman posted:And yet all everyone does is complain about lurkers. The way to stop people from lurking is to vote out the lurkers early. Sure, some games are going to take a hit from it but eventually people will stop lurking so hard and actually play the game they signed up to play. Wait, what? I could believe that lynching the lurker would be good for this game (you even said as much), but now you're just saying we should sabotage the game? 
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Sep 17, 2015 23:23
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a worthy uhh posted:So you're taking a meta moral stance at the cost of harming town success in this game? Gotcha. Except I have positively contributed to the game as I have put my thoughts and opinions about everyone down for everyone to see. How many other people have done the same?
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Sep 17, 2015 23:24
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SirSamVimes posted:Wait, what? I could believe that lynching the lurker would be good for this game (you even said as much), but now you're just saying we should sabotage the game? It doesn't sabotage the game and trying to say that it does is silly. Sure it might make it a bit harder, we no lynched on D1 in the XCOM game and town still won there. To say that removing a lurker on D1 totally ruins the game is just a flat out lie.
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Sep 17, 2015 23:26
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TMMadman posted:Except I have positively contributed to the game as I have put my thoughts and opinions about everyone down for everyone to see. How many other people have done the same? Should you flip town, I still wouldn't describe your post history as contributing positively to our chance of success. Reflect on that, in a meta sense.
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Sep 17, 2015 23:26
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a worthy uhh posted:Should you flip town, I still wouldn't describe your post history as contributing positively to our chance of success. No thanks. How about you give some opinions on someone other than me. And I will absolutely flip town.
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Sep 17, 2015 23:28
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TMMadman posted:It doesn't sabotage the game and trying to say that it does is silly. Sure it might make it a bit harder, we no lynched on D1 in the XCOM game and town still won there. To say that removing a lurker on D1 totally ruins the game is just a flat out lie. I don't think removing a lurker ruins the game, but you said you had the intention of some games taking a hit in the interest in improving the community.
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Sep 17, 2015 23:29
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SirSamVimes posted:I don't think removing a lurker ruins the game, but you said you had the intention of some games taking a hit in the interest in improving the community. Well I just meant that the games might be a little harder at the start, not actually sabotaging the entire game.
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Sep 17, 2015 23:31
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Happy with my vote on TMM. I'm going to a watch party for the Chiefs game tonight and probably won't be around. Hope some more people who haven't been around chime in tonight.
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Sep 17, 2015 23:32
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BottleKnight posted:Happy with my vote on TMM. I'm going to a watch party for the Chiefs game tonight and probably won't be around. Hope some more people who haven't been around chime in tonight. Of course you are happy with it because you didn't have to make an actual read. Instead you are using a single point of meta data to justify your lovely vote. BK is probably scum.
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Sep 17, 2015 23:34
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TMMadman posted:No I don't need to stop saying it because it's true. I don't care if you don't believe me. My flip will prove it to be true. Stop saying it because it's a meaningless thing. "I'm town" or "I'll flip town" is a meaningless argument because we have no way of knowing ourselves and scum/town both want us to believe they're town.
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Sep 17, 2015 23:36
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BottleKnight posted:What do you think in particular of the fact that he's done lurker callouts on D1 before, to fake content as scum, and didn't have this lurkers-are-killing-our-community excuse? There's a nuance to my argument that him shouting over and over again about how bad lurkers are doesn't account for. I find the way that he defended his callouts predictable. Just because he did a lurker callout as scum in a game doesn't mean he has to be scum if he does the same thing again. Townies call out lurkers all the time. As for Grandicap, I'm not a fan of the "would have been smarter/known better as scum" line because it's WIFOM. Scum can make mistakes or bad plays. I get suspicious of players who self-describe their own play as scummy; town players should be confident enough in their play to not have that view.
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Sep 17, 2015 23:54
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TMMadman posted:No thanks. How about you give some opinions on someone other than me. BTW in general telling people you're town and you will flip town etc. over and over is only going to make people more suspicious of you. Here's a hint why: all of us are claiming that we are town and that we will flip town. Reminding us of that is not only insulting our intelligence (assuming we'd think you were claiming anything else), it's just plain annoying because we already know you're claiming to be town.
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Sep 17, 2015 23:58
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Also, I did not call out the lurkers as scum to fake content. I called them out because lurkers suck. I've seen Nth post in the Pearl game, so I doubt he is truly lurking but he still deserved a call out for it today. I know merk usually posts more as well, but as he has come in and explained his situation I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt for now. I was scum with SSV in that Pearl game and his play right now is reminiscent of that game. Why haven't you called that out BK? And I'm still waiting for you to explain why you think I would play the same way as scum in as I did in my first scum game?
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Sep 17, 2015 23:59
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The Ninth Layer posted:BTW in general telling people you're town and you will flip town etc. over and over is only going to make people more suspicious of you. Here's a hint why: all of us are claiming that we are town and that we will flip town. Reminding us of that is not only insulting our intelligence (assuming we'd think you were claiming anything else), it's just plain annoying because we already know you're claiming to be town. Honestly, I understand that but I'm also a bit of a nose tweaker and enjoy knowing that it gets under people's skin. I'm willing to take the heat from it. Plus it's funny when I do end up flipping. 
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Sep 18, 2015 00:02
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TMMadman posted:Honestly, I understand that but I'm also a bit of a nose tweaker and enjoy knowing that it gets under people's skin. I'm willing to take the heat from it. Oh, so you're just an rear end in a top hat then. Good to know. Onto the ignore list you go.
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Sep 18, 2015 00:04
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What am I meant to be calling BK out for?
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Sep 18, 2015 00:04
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TMMadman posted:Honestly, I understand that but I'm also a bit of a nose tweaker and enjoy knowing that it gets under people's skin. I'm willing to take the heat from it. People aren't going to feel bad at all about lynching you, no matter how you flip, if this is your attitude.
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Sep 18, 2015 00:06
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Asiina posted:Oh, so you're just an rear end in a top hat then. Good to know. Says the person who taunted me after voting me out in a different game. Pot meet kettle.
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Sep 18, 2015 00:07
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Okay back home, yayGrandicap posted:If you are doing a classic 3 point case on why someone is scum, you don't quote the post that makes them look town if you think there is a preponderance of evidence that they are scum. It is torpedoing your own case and a bad idea. It is the same reason to not seem hedgey, even if you aren't 100% sure of a thing, if you want to lead a lynch on someone you beleive is scum, you have to ramp up the rhetoric to get people to follow you. It is an emotional game and people are more willing to follow those who are more sure of themselves. First off, you and TMM should start a club for people who can't understand context.
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Sep 18, 2015 00:09
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BottleKnight posted:I can definitely see Grandi scum. Would vote. At the time this post was made, BK's vote was on nobody. hrm.
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Sep 18, 2015 00:10
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Don't have time to read all of this yet but ffs PLEASE do not make meta poo poo we talk about in the gen disc thread be a case
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Sep 18, 2015 00:12
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ljtrigirl posted:I'm going to go read the way that Kash pushed on me last game on D1. There are some familiar elements, but I think he was a lot more tentative there, like he knew he could be wrong. Initially I was gonna go mafia dad on this and talk about sample sizes and stuff but according to votefinder Kash has been in like every game you've played. More than the meta verdict itself I'd be interested to hear a quick and dirty "kash is like x as scum and y as town in games I've played with him" because if the guy's been in 3/4 of the mafia games you've played there might be something worthwhile in there. ljtrigirl posted:Yeah. I think there are a lot of similar elements to last time. You were kind of that sure about me being town after a bit. idk. Are you good at being scum? This kinda read like disowning the last point and I'd be interested in hearing more even if there isn't a tidy conclusion or anything
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Sep 18, 2015 00:20
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Grandicap posted:Kind of. I didn't really like what you were doing, but not vehemently so. It was something to throw me into the game because I had been reading but not posting prior to that. Now I am posting so it did its job. I've been way more disengaged than I like in my last several games so I am trying to just post to get back into it. I don't like my lurking, in general, and additionally Ecco sent me a personal invitation. I don't want to let her down. I have a hard time reconciling the second part of this with your vote on Kash. It seems pretty kneejerk-y because even if he didn't phrase it super nicely you did back off hard from the Pmom vote and said it was weak and sketchy. Like the only basis of your vote is the case/vote semantic angle.
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Sep 18, 2015 00:25
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The Ninth Layer posted:People aren't going to feel bad at all about lynching you, no matter how you flip, if this is your attitude. I've never asked anyone to feel bad about lynching me, regardless of my flip. I needle people because it gets reactions and as the saying goes: if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
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Sep 18, 2015 00:26
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TMMadman posted:However, what I really don't like is LJ coming in with a strange series of posts. I know it's kind of her style, but I don't really like the whiplash feeling it gives me. She starts out by saying he vote on Kash is real, but then immediately moves it BK using the same post that uhh quoted: I'm seeing the preview of the "can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen" post right now and I get wanting to draw reactions but I don't get the logic here - there are some simple-rear end explanations like "the deadline's over 24 hours away" for why LJ wasn't stanning for Grandi and plenty of subjective things LJ could have seen in the MiR post but instead of asking about either element of that you're set on an initial read without even interacting with her. What's the point there?
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Sep 18, 2015 00:33
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TMMadman posted:She (?) actually borders on the almost lurker like SSV and Asiina. It's a he My new apartment's dumb wifi cut out and ate my original response, but two things - You don't seem to realize that nobody agrees with your point of view re: the fake cases thing. There are people who think it's ridiculous and people who are ignoring it. You should be able to glean something from that. - Like half of the game's posts at this point of this post occurred in like an 8-hour window where I didn't have access to the thread, the no reads thing is weak as hell when you look at what was actually going on when I was in the thread.
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Sep 18, 2015 00:42
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TMMadman posted:I've never asked anyone to feel bad about lynching me, regardless of my flip. You're asking people to preemptively feel bad about your flip when you tell them you're going to flip town. What else would you be talking about with "it's funny after I flip?"
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Sep 18, 2015 00:43
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TMMadman posted:I'm tired of lurkers, town or scum. So I'll vote the biggest lurker in the game right now. I only know about it existing from the discussion thread, but when you voted ANarc and said this were you aware of the wall mechanic thing ecco tried in a recent game?
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Sep 18, 2015 00:44
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Power of Pecota posted:I only know about it existing from the discussion thread, but when you voted ANarc and said this were you aware of the wall mechanic thing ecco tried in a recent game? He was in that game and alive when it happened.
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Sep 18, 2015 00:47
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BottleKnight posted:So do you think Grandi as scum would go for something like that out of the gate? That's the big thing I can't wrap my head around, and why I probably wouldn't vote him today again at all. Narrow the scope of "something like that". I don't see what's crazy about a scum Grandi trying to slide in the Pmom vote and then backing off of it when he realized it was a misfire, especially since he's been pretty quiet since conversation moved towards TMM.
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Sep 18, 2015 00:49
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Guys I am so so sorry that I've been a bad girl. I went to sleep at 7pm last night and just got home from a super busy day. Now I can finally catch up on 5+ pages of thread.
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Sep 18, 2015 00:50
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