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Merdifex posted:The only reason I wouldn't want a Manichean Seljuk is that Manicheanism has absolutely nothing to it. In vanilla, but in this already incredibly extensively modded world, who knows?
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Aug 31, 2015 08:20
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NewMars posted:In vanilla, but in this already incredibly extensively modded world, who knows? What're the chances Ofa is going to think up of interesting Manichean mechanics and implement them in?
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Aug 31, 2015 08:54
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Ceciltron posted:The question is: who am I and why am I influencing your LPs? You are no one, there is no cabal.
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Aug 31, 2015 12:23
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Merdifex posted:What're the chances Ofa is going to think up of interesting Manichean mechanics and implement them in? If timur is Manichean? Pretty good that they'll at least get something.
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Aug 31, 2015 13:14
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Just give Manichaeism some Buddhist mechanics I say. Maybe with reskinned traits. That should be sufficient to at least give them some gameplay. I don't really get why Manichaeism is a Zoroastrian heresy in the game. I mean I get that they wouldn't want it to appear from Christian/Muslim characters and provinces, but it probably had more in common with Christian and Neoplatonic Gnosticism, and Buddhism than it ever did with Zoroastrianism. Should just be in its own religion group really, maybe called "Gnostic" though that wouldn't be completely accurate either.
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Aug 31, 2015 19:12
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I mean, I'm already working and reworking stuff on the mod as the LP's in progress, but for the most part that's been small tweaks. I fear that adding a new set of traits, even if it's just a direct copy of a set of traits already in, along with the necessary work on the on_actions file and relevant event files for assigning said traits, would be a bit like changing a car's tires while it's hurtling down a racetrack.
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Aug 31, 2015 19:21
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I don't see why new traits would be necessary, a revamped Manichaeism could very well just be Manichaeism as a parent religion unto itself within the Mazdan group, with some rudimentary things like change in succession perhaps, and a autocephalous patriarch style system to represent Manichean church hierarchy as it may have existed.
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Aug 31, 2015 22:51
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Rejected Fate posted:Welp, better prepare for a Zoroastrian Levantine. I wonder about a Zoroastrianism going forward. Wasn't it a fairly elite focused religion? And I wonder how much Muslim peasants and whatnot would actually be really interested in converting to this very Iranian faith. I imagine there would have to be significant reform pressure in the Zoroastrian world (and indeed there were people that did try to reform it in history) to make it more populist. Merdifex posted:I don't see why new traits would be necessary, a revamped Manichaeism could very well just be Manichaeism as a parent religion unto itself within the Mazdan group, with some rudimentary things like change in succession perhaps, and a autocephalous patriarch style system to represent Manichean church hierarchy as it may have existed. So long as there's a trait that allows characters to transmute plant matter into godly energy to allow it to escape the world of darkness.
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Sep 4, 2015 21:01
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willing to settle posted:I wonder about a Zoroastrianism going forward. Wasn't it a fairly elite focused religion? And I wonder how much Muslim peasants and whatnot would actually be really interested in converting to this very Iranian faith. I imagine there would have to be significant reform pressure in the Zoroastrian world (and indeed there were people that did try to reform it in history) to make it more populist. I would think that one alteration that could be made to Zoroastrianism is more contention on the certainty of good's victory during the final judgement - and due to this uncertainty a focus on proselytizing could be born. You want more virtuous souls to ensure that good is victorious. It seems to me a reasonable theological change in Zoroastrianism to account for their success in other populaces as well as slightly less focus on Iran and Iranian culture in general. Of course Iranian culture is always going to be highly significant for the religion.
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Sep 5, 2015 00:12
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willing to settle posted:I wonder about a Zoroastrianism going forward. Wasn't it a fairly elite focused religion? And I wonder how much Muslim peasants and whatnot would actually be really interested in converting to this very Iranian faith. I imagine there would have to be significant reform pressure in the Zoroastrian world (and indeed there were people that did try to reform it in history) to make it more populist. It's rather hard to describe Zoroastrianism in terms of conversion and in how it appeals to converts due to the relationship between the church and state at this time. Persia was an absolute monarchy, and barring a few exceptions, the church's power was tied to how pious the Emperor was. With some Emperors, non-Zoroastrians could face oppression, barring from public office, and potentially death. With others, the Emperor married a Christian and his son was also a Christian. Generally, the Emperor just went with whatever was expedient, and was quite content to play the long game. They would build new cities that would function as economic centers for a region, and then bring in colonists, and build new temples. Then they would just sit back, and wait for the religion/culture to diffuse. In areas like the Caucasus, this led rural communities to begin practicing a variation of Zoroastrianism based on a combination of it with their traditional religions. In this timeline however, the relationship between Islam and the Caliphs threatening from the south is going to give the Zoroastrian church more power as both the church, and the state would be collectively threatened by Muslim invasion/conversion. In the Immortal lands in particular, the state is literally an organization of the church, and I'd expect that there would be little tolerance for non-Zoroastrians.
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Sep 5, 2015 02:06
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Chapter 23: Unorthodox Orthodoxy  The conversion of King Gabriel and the Kingdom of Gothia to Roman Orthodoxy seem to have come not a moment too soon for the Goths. Arian Belgica was swamped in religious controversy, with ever-increasing portions of it breaking away to form heretical Acacian realms. Belgica was so weakened by its broken faith that even Gothia's vassals, like the Duke of Campaneses, could and did conquer parts of the kingdom independently of any action on the part of Gothia itself.  King Gabriel's newfound commitment to Orthodoxy had more personal bonuses to it, as well. The king found many new friends among the Orthodox priesthood, connecting Gabriel more firmly to his new faith and solidifying his position among his Orthodox vassals.   Orthodoxy also introduced King Gabriel and Gothia as a whole to many new traditions, including monastaries and monastic wineries. The king, according to chroniclers, quickly became a fan, possibly excessively so even for the period.  Abroad, other Abrahamic religions' fortunes began to revive. Syria, lost to the Zoroastrians a generation earlier, was retaken by the Sunni Caliphate in a great jihad in 826. The remnants of the Zoroastrian Immortals, the holy order which had ruled the region directly prior to the Muslim reconquest, were then absorbed into the greater Persian Empire.  King Gabriel's conversion to Orthodoxy without embracing zealotry earned him a certain reputation for tolerance, even in his own time. This began drawing a wide variety of people to the court of Gothia, even Jews. Figures such as Pirkoi of Preuigan started appearing in court records in the 830s. Some of them, such as Pirkoi himself, ended up as part of the king's council.  Perhaps it was because of all these new faces that some members of the older generation lashed out. Theudis Triarius, the king's cousin, former court chaplain and partner in the king's effort to convert to Orthodoxy, had gradually soured on his liege, as other men began competing with him for royal attention. His simmering anger eventually led him to leave Gothia outright, and search for men with which he could conquer Gothia for himself. This posed a potentially serious threat to the crown; the king, fearing the worst, put on hold plans he had drawn up for the short-term expansion of the realm.   Despite putting plans for expansion on hold, Gabriel received a very pleasant surprise in April of 827. The king had inherited the Duchy of Armorica, expanding Gothia north to the English Channel. Although the Kingdom of Armorica had changed to elective succession a generation earlier and had kicked the house of Triarius off the throne, the dynasty had still controlled Ducal Armorica. When Duchess Agnes Triarius had died, however, she left behind no heirs, and so her demesne had passed on to her nearest living relative, King Gabriel.  Later that same year, on 23 September, 827, King Gabriel had the additional pleasure of seeing the conversion of Lugdunum, Gothia's capital, to Orthodoxy. The Roman creed's hold on the land was ever-increasing, and the king expressed pleasure and relief that his self-confessed huge gambit seemed to be paying off. Patriarch Liudibalds, for his part, would later be celebrated as a local saint in Lugdunensis.   Not all Goths agreed that Orthodoxy was the correct path, but that didn't mean they adhered to Arianism, either. Shocking news soon reached the court in Gothia that King Triwila of Armorica, Gothia's northern neighbor, had converted away from Arianism- to Catholicism. This was upsetting news to the king and his courtiers, but no one seemed to know exactly what to do with the information. Giving up on Arianism was good, of course, but to then convert to schismatic Catholicism? It prompted King Gabriel to reflect further upon his faith.  And what Gabriel's further reflections prompted was an increased tolerance from the crown, notably for the small but growing Jewish community in Gothia. An alleged chronicle from the time, the Royal Gothic Annals, claimed that King Gabriel once plainly said that his "pursuit of religion was the pursuit of stability", and that zealotry to the point of persecution ran completely counter to that goal. No, the king was not going to wage war on Armorica for becoming Catholic. All he cared for was a stable, strong realm.  Belgica itself was a constant reminder of what would happen if the realm did not care for its own stability. The kingdom had almost completely dissolved, with most of its former lands divided between heretical Treveria, Mosa, Colonia (a tributary to Treveria) and Alsatia, with Belgica proper only just barely holding onto some lands in Flanders. As always, Belgica was proof that converting away from Arianism was the right choice.  It should be understood that the petty kingdoms that succeeded Belgica were not strong realms themselves; upon the death of the elder Duke of Alsatia, for example, the crown passed to his newborn son, Salla, a baby not even a year old at his coronation. Lacking any allies and with a powerless baby on the throne, Alsatia was an easy target for Gothia. The choice to wage an aggressive war at that time was even easier, as the Gothic court had finally noticed that Theudis Triarius' adventures abroad to raise support for an invasion had fizzled, so there were no major threats on the horizon. With nothing to stay its hand, Gothia declared war for the minor county of Sunthgawi, a small territory on the border between Alsatia proper and Gothia.    Given the state Alsatia was in, it was surprising the realm was able to muster as many men as it did. Nevertheless, Gothia had more men, and after defeating the Alsatian army, Gothic troops encountered no resistance as they besieged various holdings. After a few Gothic victories, Alsatia folded, and Sunthgawi became part of Gothia.   While King Gabriel was becoming quite a good father for all of Gothia, he was not faring so well as a personal father to his children. Perhaps it was the king's penchant for drinking which had caused problems, perhaps it was plain neglect, but Prince Thiudareiks, the heir to the throne, had grown to be a rather disappointing figure. Thiudareiks young wife, Princess Galeria of Loegria, was perhaps even more of a disappointment than Thiudareiks himself. She did give Gothia a key alliance with the southern British kingdom of Loegria, but beyond that she offered very little personally.  Other people at court were beginning to express some discontent with King Gabriel's rule. The king's refusal to act against Armorica upon its conversion to Catholicism and the growth of his lackluster heir began to fuel spiteful rumors than the king's consort, Queen Romana, had somehow duped Gabriel. Whispers of a plot against his wife's life soon reached King Gabriel's ears.  He needed to further legitimize his rule and prove to his court that his reign was capable of greatness. To that end, he commissioned Duke Iakobus of Turonum to "discover" documents that would help his rule. After some time working, the Duke approached the king with the Bounty of Honorius. The document allegedly dated back to the reign of the early 5th century emperor Honorius of Rome, granting the Goths "rule over the cities of Italy" if they could safeguard them against the Italian rebels that later formed the Catholic realm that then ruled the peninsula in the 9th century. When the Carthagennans in Spain heard about the document they were none too pleased, but the Goths in Gaul were greatly enthused.  With the Bounty in hand, Gabriel claimed he was marching into Italy to claim that which was rightly his, and declared war on Queen Borislava of Carantania, the Slavic ruler of the Trans-Alpine kingdom, for control of Pedemontium.  Gothic armies progressed steadily into Carantanian lands and secured Pedemontium itself early on in the war, capturing Eporedia, Taurinorum and Septimum without any interference from Carantanian troops.  With Pedemontium secured but the Slavs not folding, Gothic troops then marched the length of the Alps to attack the Carantanian capital in Monakovo. Given the terrain they were marching through and the time of year when they went, they endured surprisingly few losses during the move eastward.  Shortly after Monakovo's capture, Carantania finally called in its ally, Avaria. It was too little, too late, however, as Carantania had no armies left to reinforce their Avarian allies when the latter finally engaged Gothic troops near Inomost.  The Avars' defeat was compounded by the death of their king, Gregur. With the Avar crown passed on to Gregur's sister, the Avaria-Carantania alliance was temporarily broken, and Carantania was forced to stand alone.   And so in January of 837, Carantania surrended, ceding Pedemontium to Gothia. With that victory, the Goths held land in Italy for the first time since the Amaling's conquest of Roman Gaul in the 5th century. Having converted to the Romans' form of Christianity, the Goths were now beginning to take on the Roman penchant for empire-building. January 4, 837: 
Ofaloaf fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Sep 10, 2015 |
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Sep 10, 2015 18:35
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Ofaloaf posted:
Also I must say im disturbed that we have avoided the Great Blue Blob just to replace it with the Great Red Blob
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Sep 10, 2015 21:16
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So, the king of the drunks can't even be bothered to devote himself to his false faith? Coward! His drive to expand, though, would almost be admirable if it weren't so limited in scope. How will Gothia ever be restored if these middling campaigns for these worthless and minuscule strips of land are all the accursed Triarius are able to muster? It shall never be! And look at our supposed allies in Hispania! All of Iberia is theirs! How long before Septimania is crushed, before Aquitaine is subjugated, before we are enslaved once more to the Romans?! Our drunkard king has already sold our souls to them, has he not? He already licks their Patriarch's boots, soon he will travel to Cartagena and submit to the Emperor! We must prevent this! We must restore the Arian creed, force this spiritual mercenary into one of those monasteries, and subjugate all the lesser realms that surround us, starting with the traitors in Armorica!
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Sep 10, 2015 21:24
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Sep 10, 2015 21:50
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When are we going to get our next state of the world update?
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Sep 10, 2015 22:14
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Death of the king, I figure.
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Sep 10, 2015 22:29
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Ikasuhito posted:THEY MUST PAY. Yes, on both counts. We may want to create
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Sep 10, 2015 23:02
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Hell yeah, Swabia hanging in there, although RIP to the Franks. And Arianism in general, it looks like.
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Sep 10, 2015 23:08
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If we are expanding into Italy on the basis of the Bounty of Honorius, then we surely cannot allow the Helvetians control of the mountain passes between our demense and the Po valley. While the letter of the Bounty didn't include them, surely its spirit does.
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Sep 10, 2015 23:17
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Dr. Snark posted:Yes, on both counts. We may want to create No, we need to enact an excessively complicated, multi-generational scheme to get the legitimate Imperial crown for ourselves, finally fulfilling our Roman fetishist dreams.
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Sep 10, 2015 23:34
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Little Kurdistan just chuggin' along. 
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Sep 11, 2015 00:11
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Hitlers Gay Secret posted:Little Kurdistan just chuggin' along. Looks like they got eaten by the Sassanids by the end of the update. I hope the Sassanids expand East next. India might be an easier prize for them. Fox Ironic fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Sep 11, 2015 |
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Sep 11, 2015 02:10
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Avaria is sovereign again
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Sep 11, 2015 06:24
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Our borders are looking awful.
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Sep 11, 2015 12:19
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Kanthulhu posted:Our borders are looking awful. Kanthulhu has founded the 'Pretty Borders' Faction.
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Sep 11, 2015 12:44
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Drone posted:Kanthulhu has founded the 'Pretty Borders' Faction. I too would like to join the Pretty Borders Faction. First order of business is conquering Helvetia. And then Armorica. Fox Ironic fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Sep 11, 2015 |
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Sep 11, 2015 17:04
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Fox Ironic posted:I too would like to join the Pretty Borders Faction. First order of business is conquering Helvetia. And then Armorica. Motion seconded.
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Sep 11, 2015 17:11
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Ofaloaf posted:
What is that big darkish-grey blob atop the Sassanids?
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Sep 11, 2015 18:25
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Huh. Looks like Byzlam went under. Pity.
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Sep 13, 2015 21:10
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Rejected Fate posted:What is that big darkish-grey blob atop the Sassanids? Most likely a Horde, if I remember my in game colours right might be Khiva.
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Sep 13, 2015 21:27
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Huh, nobody's posted here in a while. I hope you're not dead, Ofaloaf, because I want further updates to After the End. Could you give us a quick rundown on the major powers beyond the view of western Europe? I know there's no way the Goths now about them, but I'd still like to.
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Sep 17, 2015 04:40
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Ofaloaf was slain by a lone bowman.
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Sep 17, 2015 04:58
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i'm a strong believer in ugly borders and honestly i'm unsatisfied with the current situation
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Sep 17, 2015 06:19
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The only pretty border is the coast.
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Sep 17, 2015 12:59
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Ofaloaf posted:January 4, 837: I like the little green frog leg in the brown blob at the bottom.
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Sep 17, 2015 13:04
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AJ_Impy posted:The only pretty border is the coast. I agree. Let's go for world conquest!
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Sep 17, 2015 13:33
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Ofaloaf posted:January 4, 837: That mustardy yellow one, up in Denmark... that's Kirur's realm, right? Seems like he's doing somewhat well in this timeline, inni't?
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Sep 17, 2015 14:09
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Quite an ignominious end. R.I.P. Orthodox Gothia.
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Sep 22, 2015 00:35
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 Ofaloaf: The Gothonomicon drove him insane.Not that you have to be sane to post on Something Awful.
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Sep 22, 2015 05:11
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Falconier111 posted:
I didn't notice that link lead to the CKII Wiki at first and only saw the Scholarship in the url and thought Pdox was giving scholarships to history buffs now.
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Sep 22, 2015 07:42
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