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xyigx posted:At no point and on ZERO guns is running a "naked" gun better no matter what any youtubers say. The 1-2 frame hit on barrels is not going to get you killed in any situation that you would not have died in anyhow. So if you took you attachments off after the summer patch put them the gently caress back on, your only hurting your performance by running the naked guns. Can you explain this please? I don't think I've ever ran a gun naked and I'm curious about why people would do that (I didn't play much this summer honestly).
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Sep 23, 2015 18:09
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Backhand posted:I would argue that some of those things are statistically verifiable but have upsides or downsides outside of combat. Lasers have no downside whatsoever EXCEPT for the fact that they increase player visibility, and can sometimes give you away if you are attempting to stay still and keep a low profile; it's not something that can be easily quantified, and it may or may not matter in any individual case, but it is there. It's also worth noting that laser lights is scattered and defused by smoke, massively increasing its visibility. Running through a smoke grenade with a laser sight on waves a giant 'shoot here' sign to any enemies watching it. The laser is true enough and I tend to not run them because of that. As to the desert eagle a 10% reduction in vertical recoil is almost unnoticeable in scale, similar to DMR's it is "usable" but the difference is so slight as to not be worth adding to the desert eagles already insanely high spread increase per shot. But at the end of the day the best thing is to test and find what you are comfortable using. This is more a list of what they do in reference to gun performance and as I said a quicky rule of thumb. I know some people use both the muzzle brake and the angled on the SCAR-H and a few of the other high recoil weapons but I do not as having a 30% decrease on the first shot followed by a 10% decrease on following shots has less value to me than making a tighter grouping of 5-6 shots or being off the minimap. Plus there are always odd cases like the Aug where its FSRM is so high that while a heavy barrel sounds good it is actually causing you more harm than good. I am not telling anyone what to do, I mean it is a game. These are just my recommendations after testing and checking numbers and doing more testing. ^^^ due to DICE adding a negative trait to the grips a people like levelcap and xfactor began to suggest that running your guns with no attachments is the best way to go. They did this without any testing or checking the numbers because of a combination of the "community" freaking out about a stat they did not understand(the delay between when you stop firing and spread starting to reduce) and them not taking the time to actually test or check to see what the values were. Pretty much sheer laziness on their part and spreading misinformation through their videos causing even more people to not use attachments since they "ruin" the gun. xyigx fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Sep 23, 2015 |
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Sep 23, 2015 18:25
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Originally every gun had 16 degrees of recovery per second, which meant that there was essentially no practical scenario where something like an AEK wouldn't perform better or equally to a CZ805 due to micro-bursting. Micro-bursting meant the AEK would fire twice, stop for a frame, then fire again. Which meant high-RoF weapons could in essence fire at their full rate of fire(or close to it) and still be accurate out to ranges where something like the CZ or SAR or G36C should be excelling. The changes to SDEC(Spread Decrease Per Shot) in the last weapons pass tied the stat to Rate of Fire, on top of making under-barrel attachments reduce to .67 of the base value. What this means is that something like the SAR can fire up to 5 rounds and then stop to reset its spread for a frame, and then fire another 5 rounds, while the AEK can only fire at most 3 rounds, and then has to stop for 2-3 frames before firing again. This makes the SAR more effective at longer ranges due to being easier to handle and actually having the TTK advantage, despite being a lower rate of fire.
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Sep 23, 2015 18:37
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DocImpossible posted:BF4 worth buying now? Seems you guys are enjoying it, and I always like Battlefield over CoD. The only thing that kept me from buying it was the poo poo launch, and that's well and over with. I asked this 2 months ago. I now have 140 hours into it. So yeah
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Sep 23, 2015 18:41
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Ah well, youtuber "tips" then. I know about the negative effects and all that but i just try to offset the gun's disadvantages or further increase a certain niche. I think the only gun I run without barrel attachment is the LSAT because of the low recoil and spread. I could slap HB on it for long range but then the LSAT owns for long bursts and has high bullet speed. At the other hand, with the patch, i feel that they hosed the 7.62 lmgs so much that i don't know what i should put on them aside from flash hider and a bipod for camping.
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Sep 23, 2015 18:48
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I haven't noticed much of a change since the updates. I never have any idea why my shots sometimes kill quickly or I seem to miss everything. Live fast and die often.
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Sep 23, 2015 20:50
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Yeah I tend to only use lasers on pdws where I know I'll be exclusively hip firing, since such a big part of my playstyle is getting the drop on people.
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Sep 23, 2015 21:15
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It also may sound stupid but between the different lasers, green is the less visible than the other two and tri-beam is always on the center on CQB so that leaves the plain red lasersight as the worst (in my opinion of course).
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Sep 23, 2015 21:21
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I run PDWs with HBar + (when the option is available)Stubby and focus on ADS. Slower accuracy loss combined with a relatively low min and max spread makes PDWs crazy effective at mid-range. The UMP-9 specifically is really good with this setup, although I've ran even the CZ this way to baffle my enemies to death.
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Sep 23, 2015 21:49
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I've been running with the MPX for awhile now when I get sick of using the ACE 21 CQB on my Engineer. Is it an okay PDW? Running with Hbar + Stubby. I feel like I'm doing good with it. Is there anything that is flat out better in the PDW category? I find myself mostly engaging in close to mid range fights.
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Sep 23, 2015 22:05
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The MPX is really good for close range and can 2HSK up to about 15 meters. Its horizontal recoil means it's not as good at longer ranges so Compensator+Stubby is a good choice on it.
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Sep 23, 2015 22:30
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I have a game tip that I wish to share. Put c4 on small vehicles and then run into big vehicles and then detonate the c4. I hope you all enjoy my game tip.
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Sep 23, 2015 22:38
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Pharmaskittle posted:Yeah I tend to only use lasers on pdws where I know I'll be exclusively hip firing, since such a big part of my playstyle is getting the drop on people. I roll one on my grach and usp pistol and occasionally on the a91 since its hipfire's pretty drat good.
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Sep 23, 2015 23:17
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Speaking of guns the GROZA carbine is terrible and I hate that I feel the need to 5 Star it.
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Sep 23, 2015 23:19
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Nebiros posted:I roll one on my grach and usp pistol and occasionally on the a91 since its hipfire's pretty drat good. Oh yeah and most pistols since I figure poo poo's already pretty sticky if I'm down to my secondary
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Sep 23, 2015 23:28
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Kibayasu posted:Speaking of guns the GROZA carbine is terrible and I hate that I feel the need to 5 Star it. The PDW version is even worse; its stats look great until you realize that its damage dropoff begins at roughly sneezing distance.
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Sep 24, 2015 00:38
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Shimrra Jamaane posted:I asked this 2 months ago. I never bothered asking and now I've got 373 hours in game with no sign of stopping. naked gun chat: The more randoms think a naked gun is better, the more advantage I get from them gimping themselves. The only empty slots on any of my guns are as follows: My GOL Magnum has a naked barrel because accuracy and range are the stats that barrel attachments hurt, yet they're the most important for that fucker. The CZ-3A1 and Bulldog have an empty accessory slot because I don't want a magnifier or canted irons, and everything else on them is just lights and lasers that make me more visible which I don't want, and their hipfire is great anyway. Everything else is just stuff I haven't unlocked. I use an appropriate grip and barrel attachment any chance I get, snipers excepted.
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Sep 24, 2015 00:47
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Backhand posted:The PDW version is even worse; its stats look great until you realize that its damage dropoff begins at roughly sneezing distance. The GROZA-4 does exactly the same damage as the 9x19mm PDWs do at 20 meters, but from 0 to 17 meters it can 2-shot to the head, something none of those guns can do. It also has built in suppressor and Hbar like the AS-VAL, except it has a Bullpup modifier and significantly lower horizontal recoil due to having a much more controllable 700 RPM. Did I mention is has a switchable grip slot unlike all the other bullpup PDWs? The Groza-4 is a gun that trades reload speed for being ridiculously good at everything else, and it shows. New Concept Hole fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Sep 24, 2015 |
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Sep 24, 2015 01:01
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New Concept Hole posted:The GROZA-4 does exactly the same damage as the 9x19mm PDWs do at 20 meters, but from 0 to 17 meters it can 2-shot to the head, something none of those guns can do. It also has built in suppressor and Hbar like the AS-VAL, except it has a Bullpup modifier and significantly lower horizontal recoil due to having a much more controllable 700 RPM. Did I mention is has a switchable grip slot unlike all the other bullpup PDWs? The Groza-4 is a gun that trades reload speed for being ridiculously good at everything else, and it shows. Once you get used to the pdw groza it's alright. Tha ASVAL has a built in heavy barrel and better reload. It's still one of 2 goto pdws. The pdwr is the other great pdw. After the weapon patch all are fun to tool around with though.
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Sep 24, 2015 02:04
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I know the Groza and the AS VAL have irremovable barrels but do they really have the effects of both a suppressor and heavy barrel?
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Sep 24, 2015 05:28
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TubeStank posted:
I hear rumblings of complaints from CTE about C4 getting nerfed... http://youtu.be/rqHPTfbFSso
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Sep 24, 2015 06:38
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I've got shadowplay working again. Any interest in videos of AAA causing trouble for things with wings? And feet and tracks and wheels and mounted things.
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Sep 24, 2015 06:40
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LampkinsMateSteve posted:I hear rumblings of complaints from CTE about C4 getting nerfed... I like the helicopter seat launcher nerf because of the sky sperg tears.
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Sep 24, 2015 07:10
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Kibayasu posted:I know the Groza and the AS VAL have irremovable barrels but do they really have the effects of both a suppressor and heavy barrel? Yes, which benefits the slower-firing bullpup Groza more than the 900 rpm h-recoiling AS VAL. LampkinsMateSteve posted:I hear rumblings of complaints from CTE about C4 getting nerfed... Yeah they nerfed resupply time, throw range, and radius IIRC. Which is good because as long as it could be thrown in the general direction of armor and secure kills, other gadgets couldn't keep up in terms of utility no matter how you buff them. E: also the gunner seat Incendiary for IFVs/MBTs got a huge range buff on CTE, which means the gunner is capable of destroying C4 on jeeps with relative ease. New Concept Hole fucked around with this message at 07:24 on Sep 24, 2015 |
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Sep 24, 2015 07:21
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dont nerf c4 damage nerf something else slam 2.0
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Sep 24, 2015 07:27
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Jesus. Would it kill someone to hire a good single player campaign writer? That was a slog to get through. Also, holy poo poo 61.5 gig for everything+DLC.
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Sep 24, 2015 07:58
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Ak Gara posted:Jesus. Would it kill someone to hire a good single player campaign writer? That was a slog to get through. Grab a complete game save file. It used to be in the OP, if it's not there I'm sure one of us can pull ours and throw it up. After you get it, watch 20 seconds of the end of the game and unlock all three guns. Then proceed to only ever use the SAW. As for the AS/Groza, I prefer the VAL still, but even with it's changes it's just a reliable weapon for me. Seriously, for PDWs, find the one that fits your playstyle. I do recommend giving the PDW-R a swing though. It's a pocket carbine that takes pretty much all attachments fairly well and engages at good ranges with all the benefits of both carbines and PDWs.
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Sep 24, 2015 09:46
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New Concept Hole posted:Yes, which benefits the slower-firing bullpup Groza more than the 900 rpm h-recoiling AS VAL. But you have to actually throw the C4 close to armor or stick to it unlike other gadgets. gently caress if they're nerfing C4 for god's sake, that would be the only reason for me to uninstall BF4 
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Sep 24, 2015 13:02
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They better not nerf my precious c4
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Sep 24, 2015 13:18
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I have to agree, they really really should not nerf c4. Yeah, it hard counters most armor, but a lot of the time that's all that keeps said armor from completely dominating the game. I've no desire to see tank spergs take the place of air spergs. And on that note, bringing back chopper armored canopies? That sounds bad. Being able to punish little bird pilots for hovering right in front of you was one of the few things that made them tolerable. Edit: Actually, come to think of it, I would be fine with them nerfing c4.... so long as they correspondingly buffed AT launchers. Just so SOMETHING infantry-based can handle vehicles. Right now engineer rockets are mostly a joke unless you bring several of them. Backhand fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Sep 24, 2015 |
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Sep 24, 2015 14:10
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It hard counters most armour yet requires you getting very very very close to something that can 1 hit you and spending a decent chunk of time doing and takes quite a bit of skill(and lack of it in drivers) to repeatedly pull off. Definition of good design
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Sep 24, 2015 14:17
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If they are considering it because of Jihad Jeeps then, well, that is why community server rules exist. And there is certainly a tiny bit of danger about rushing a car loaded with explosives into enemy lines. Balance.
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Sep 24, 2015 14:40
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New Concept Hole posted:Yes, which benefits the slower-firing bullpup Groza more than the 900 rpm h-recoiling AS VAL. While it's true that C4 is generally far and away the best gadget choice for Support and Recon, that's not so much because C4 is too good but rather because the alternatives aren't good enough, especially after the UCAV was nerfed to poo poo. C4 fulfills a very important role in the general vehicle gameplay, and if it was significantly weakened you'd pretty much see 90% engineers on every map featuring them forever. It would help if the Recon's laser marking was more usable, but as it stands right now 90% of the time you're much better off trying to C4 any given vehicle than to try and mark it and hope that the stars align and somebody actually manages to make use of it in the slim time-window you usually get. poo poo, give the Support a BC2-style marking pistol and I'd happily use that over C4.
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Sep 24, 2015 14:52
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Backhand posted:Edit: Actually, come to think of it, I would be fine with them nerfing c4.... so long as they correspondingly buffed AT launchers. Just so SOMETHING infantry-based can handle vehicles. Right now engineer rockets are mostly a joke unless you bring several of them. Considering the CTE is currently simultaneously testing launcher changes for AA and AT, Laser Designation, along with CM changes and changes to vehicle armor, this is hardly a one-off gadget change. Perestroika posted:While it's true that C4 is generally far and away the best gadget choice for Support and Recon, that's not so much because C4 is too good but rather because the alternatives aren't good enough, especially after the UCAV was nerfed to poo poo. C4 fulfills a very important role in the general vehicle gameplay, and if it was significantly weakened you'd pretty much see 90% engineers on every map featuring them forever. It would help if the Recon's laser marking was more usable, but as it stands right now 90% of the time you're much better off trying to C4 any given vehicle than to try and mark it and hope that the stars align and somebody actually manages to make use of it in the slim time-window you usually get. The latest CTE compilation has buffed Laser Designation and the resupply times of other Support gadgets, but C4 is still too flexible. The UCAV when it came out and was killing everything with minimum warning, no risk and a low downtime. It was flying C4 for all intents and purposes and a nerf was justified. Now both are getting reworked because UCAV was all over the place with regards to its design intent, and C4 was dwarfing other gadgets due to being good against both armor and infantry while being available at almost all times due to its quick resupply.
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Sep 24, 2015 15:16
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Please leave my jihad vehicles alone dice.
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Sep 24, 2015 16:24
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LampkinsMateSteve posted:I hear rumblings of complaints from CTE about C4 getting nerfed... DICE: "Hm, we could fix the main problem with scout helicopters, that they can get repaired in mid-air, but clearly the main problem is actually that engineers occasionally fire rockets from the side seats. Also we'll once again reduce the effectiveness of a really good counter to them, the UCAV." Seriously DICE? No one ever complained that engineers could fire their rocket launchers from the side seat. And if they did they were also the same air spergs that had you reduce the SRAW which you are now undoing to some extent. Let them fire whatever they want to and restrict the repair tool. At least they changed the grenade resupply times back to something resembling reasonable.
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Sep 24, 2015 16:38
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Kibayasu posted:Seriously DICE? No one ever complained that engineers could fire their rocket launchers from the side seat. Good SH pilots had passengers who were firing stingers at air threats or using LAWs on armor. With all these things getting buffed they probably figured they should get out in front of it now.
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Sep 24, 2015 17:05
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New Concept Hole posted:Good SH pilots had passengers who were firing stingers at air threats or using LAWs on armor. With all these things getting buffed they probably figured they should get out in front of it now. Sure, I've been part of those helicopters, but the easiest way to reduce that threat is to not give scout helicopters the survivability of a tank. Engineers firing rockets at things doesn't matter nearly as much if the helicopter actually has to deal with taking damage.
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Sep 24, 2015 17:20
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Allow infantry weapons, at least LMGs, to damage helicopters. Problem solved.
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Sep 24, 2015 17:31
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Firing rockets from choppers owns, indestructible scout choppers are lame.
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Sep 24, 2015 17:44
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