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Gerbil_Pen posted:That's a gently caress-ton of cash to give to the venerable Chris Roberts. It'd be pretty silly of you to not understand that the project is more than just a binary choice between game is coming out vs game is not coming out. The project is certainly seeming less healthy than it has in the past. Some of that perception may be due to sources that you personally might consider sketchy at best (like Derek Smart, known idiot) but regardless it's not up to you to determine what is and is not credible information, given that you have no real evidence that anyone else here doesn't. Anyway, if someone perceives the project to be unhealthy then there's no reason why they shouldn't withdraw their money. The fact that someone was willing to sink $890 into this project says a lot about their level of support for the concept and absolutely nothing about their level of confidence in the project itself, and whether it was $890 or $20,000 it doesn't mean that they can't or shouldn't withdraw their money if they feel the project may not deliver. To claim otherwise is relying pretty heavily on the sunk cost fallacy, which is especially funny given that there are no sunk costs involved here since refunds are supposedly readily available. Anyway it comes down to financial solvency, if you believe CIG's in trouble then you should immediately withdraw whatever money you have invested in the project. If you don't, then you trust their claims, which is to say that they have plenty of money and a few backers withdrawing their money doesn't present a big threat to the project. The only people who should be trying to argue with people asking for refunds are people who truly believe that CIG is on a razor's edge and refunds could potentially sink them, and anyone else is just being a weird cultist about it (you)
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Sep 27, 2015 04:23
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| # ? May 19, 2024 07:25 |
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Croberts.
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Sep 27, 2015 04:24
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Honestly the only reason this is even a thing is because there is gently caress all other SC news to talk about. Which is half the issue I guess.
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Sep 27, 2015 04:33
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Prop Wash posted:It'd be pretty silly of you to not understand that the project is more than just a binary choice between game is coming out vs game is not coming out. The project is certainly seeming less healthy than it has in the past. Some of that perception may be due to sources that you personally might consider sketchy at best (like Derek Smart, known idiot) but regardless it's not up to you to determine what is and is not credible information, given that you have no real evidence that anyone else here doesn't. Anyway, if someone perceives the project to be unhealthy then there's no reason why they shouldn't withdraw their money. The fact that someone was willing to sink $890 into this project says a lot about their level of support for the concept and absolutely nothing about their level of confidence in the project itself, and whether it was $890 or $20,000 it doesn't mean that they can't or shouldn't withdraw their money if they feel the project may not deliver. To claim otherwise is relying pretty heavily on the sunk cost fallacy, which is especially funny given that there are no sunk costs involved here since refunds are supposedly readily available. I sent him a PM, but, yeah, this is pretty much it. This game is not coming out, ever. I backed before they cut off LTI (almost two years ago) and hadn't broken $20 million. Now, they're at five times the funding level, and still have literally nothing to show for it. I just wanted to shoot spaceships with chill internet spacebros, not have to micromanage iPads on a space cruiseliner or spend thirty minutes in space customs cutscenes to make space bucks.
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Sep 27, 2015 04:35
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A Neurotic Jew posted:Important to note also that the reason Smart-sourced gossip is now somewhat powerful is because he broke the news on Forgy, Delhotal and Pugh's exit, which gives him a level of legitimacy that he didn't really have before. It becomes much more difficult to dismiss everything he's saying out of hand. And another possibility exists, that this is a Murder on the Oriental Express type plot, with a LOT of parties complicit in these leaks to Derek. Derek has stated he's heard from more than a dozen folks, right? (Please correct if I'm wrong.) As entertained as I am by the Spinal Tap level dismal comedy of CIG, I'm even more fascinated by this bloody mystery!
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Sep 27, 2015 04:44
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hello friends
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Sep 27, 2015 04:48
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Blazing Zero posted:hello friends sup dog w/ glasses
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Sep 27, 2015 04:53
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sup man w glasses and a cig
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Sep 27, 2015 04:55
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Prop Wash posted:It'd be pretty silly of you to not understand that the project is more than just a binary choice between game is coming out vs game is not coming out. The project is certainly seeming less healthy than it has in the past. Some of that perception may be due to sources that you personally might consider sketchy at best (like Derek Smart, known idiot) but regardless it's not up to you to determine what is and is not credible information, given that you have no real evidence that anyone else here doesn't. Anyway, if someone perceives the project to be unhealthy then there's no reason why they shouldn't withdraw their money. The fact that someone was willing to sink $890 into this project says a lot about their level of support for the concept and absolutely nothing about their level of confidence in the project itself, and whether it was $890 or $20,000 it doesn't mean that they can't or shouldn't withdraw their money if they feel the project may not deliver. To claim otherwise is relying pretty heavily on the sunk cost fallacy, which is especially funny given that there are no sunk costs involved here since refunds are supposedly readily available. Why would you assume I'm a cultist and not someone who thinks a flood of refunds could be the straw that breaks the camel's back financially? AP and others ITT have been commenting about how this whole thing rides on the latest and greatest sales followed by citcon, fps success, etc. to get them to SQ42 release. Without knowing where they stand financially with backer funds, loans, investors, etc., I buy this theory, and think that the way this unfolds is to get something playable out in the form of SQ42 and then tack the PU on with the new revenue. As a side-note, DS predicting a few firings/resignations does not mean he knows jack poo poo about anything else until he can prove it. It means someone who knew about the firings/resignations told him. How deep in is the mole? No idea.
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Sep 27, 2015 04:59
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Variable 5 posted:I sent him a PM, but, yeah, this is pretty much it. This game is not coming out, ever. I backed before they cut off LTI (almost two years ago) and hadn't broken $20 million. Now, they're at five times the funding level, and still have literally nothing to show for it. Makes sense, the scope creep is real.
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Sep 27, 2015 05:03
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Gerbil_Pen posted:As a side-note, DS predicting a few firings/resignations does not mean he knows jack poo poo about anything else until he can prove it. It means someone who knew about the firings/resignations told him. How deep in is the mole? No idea. The point being that beforehand you could dismiss the possibility that he had a mole. Now you can't. This is very disturbing news for some people, and with good reason.
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Sep 27, 2015 05:07
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Being in the UK, how sol am i for refunding this poo poo.
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Sep 27, 2015 05:09
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It's hardly going to crash and burn the project anyway. They'll sign their souls over to VC money, get a timetable shoved down their throats and be forced to actually release poo poo.
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Sep 27, 2015 05:15
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Confirmed. Refund incoming to me. Fake edit. Sandi doing help desk at 9:30pm her local time.
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Sep 27, 2015 05:29
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DancingShade posted:It's hardly going to crash and burn the project anyway. They'll sign their souls over to VC money, get a timetable shoved down their throats and be forced to actually release poo poo. I mean it'd burn any of the remaining goodwill the project has with the true believers but I wonder if they'd do what Comcept did and suddenly announce a publishing partnership with a shady rear end Far East hardware manufacturer looking to break into the console/pc market.
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Sep 27, 2015 05:36
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Sushi in Yiddish posted:I mean it'd burn any of the remaining goodwill the project has with the true believers but I wonder if they'd do what Comcept did and suddenly announce a publishing partnership with a shady rear end Far East hardware manufacturer looking to break into the console/pc market. Once the freemium style gamble boxes come online any and all goodwill goes out the window anyway. Profitability will go up though. Remember: they already got ~90m of "free" cash in exchange for some copy pasted in game assets they can keep on selling anyway.
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Sep 27, 2015 05:40
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Still no response for the explanation of the month long probation I received half a month ago.
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Sep 27, 2015 05:57
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Sappo569 posted:Wow lawyers work quick with their C&D letters She is right. I dont believe the sky is falling.... cig is not the sky
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Sep 27, 2015 06:18
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PITT posted:Ya just imagine what could have been! I remember this. AFAIK his plan was to shut down all the modding for FS2 because he didn't like the community or some poo poo. Bolow fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Sep 27, 2015 |
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Sep 27, 2015 06:25
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AP posted:Immediately after Chris Roberts leaves they have the guy who contacted FTC, sends females pictures of his dick and has a subreddit dedicated to criticising Derek Smart on. They really show questionable judgement at times having this idiot on and I feel a bit ill seeing how dirty his fingernails are as he shows his proud collectors editions that nobody cares about to the camera. Do you think if we all sent pictures of our dick to cig, they would let us on the show too?
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Sep 27, 2015 06:30
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Amun Khonsu posted:She is right. I dont believe the sky is falling.... cig is not the sky Holy poo poo. Is this really the crazy Brazilian?
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Sep 27, 2015 06:32
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Sky is falling, liquidate everything, sell your gaming rig and snap your HOTAS over your knee. Then move to Tibet and become a monk.
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Sep 27, 2015 07:59
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Zeike posted:Wait a second...then what do I do with this 2 grand worth of space ships? Maybe there's some way you could convert them into hot dogs...
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Sep 27, 2015 08:05
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joke_explainer posted:Maybe there's some way you could convert them into hot dogs... It's a safe bet someone in the SC community has a metric ton of hot dogs they'd be willing to exchange.
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Sep 27, 2015 08:25
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Mr SoupTeeth posted:It's a safe bet someone in the SC community has a metric ton of hot dogs they'd be willing to exchange. Just PM Dick Wulf on  and ask him for a picture of his hot dog that he's trying to sell. It's not that substantial, but oh boy is it tender!
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Sep 27, 2015 09:03
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Mr SoupTeeth posted:It's a safe bet someone in the SC community has a metric ton of hot dogs they'd be willing to exchange. You could try Wulf, he would send you some meat but you have to be female. Edit: drat it Goredema 
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Sep 27, 2015 09:06
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RescueFreak posted:You could try Wulf, he would send you some meat but you have to be female. I guess nowadays, everyone is thinking about Dick Wulf's meat. 
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Sep 27, 2015 09:16
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DancingShade posted:It's hardly going to crash and burn the project anyway. They'll sign their souls over to VC money, get a timetable shoved down their throats and be forced to actually release poo poo. I don't think it will just be having a timetable shoved down their throats. Assuming that this is what's needed, I think that an Angel investor who's willing to put in the $X million needed to save the project would also demand that outside troubleshooting managers/producers be brought in on a high level to actually make sure the timetable gets followed. They're gonna want concrete guarantees that no more money is wasted on silly inconsequential poo poo at the expense of the core systems and content needed to make a game people can actually play, and I doubt they'd trust CR to provide that without supervision, given how much cash he'd have had to have wasted to need a bailout in the first place. This would be when things would really heat up, because now the people in charge of the purse strings will likely not be gamers, or dreamers, but grumpy, hard-nosed business types whose central priority is the completion of the project in any form. A ton of weird speculative ideas that have been floating in design limbo are gonna be suddenly shot down and replaced with hard, limited "It does this" pronouncements, the "core vision" will wither under an assault of no-nonsense pragmatism, and the brown sea will erupt into a poo poo tsunami the likes of which the world has never seen.
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Sep 27, 2015 10:50
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Gerbil_Pen posted:Why would you assume I'm a cultist and not someone who thinks a flood of refunds could be the straw that breaks the camel's back financially? AP and others ITT have been commenting about how this whole thing rides on the latest and greatest sales followed by citcon, fps success, etc. to get them to SQ42 release. Without knowing where they stand financially with backer funds, loans, investors, etc., I buy this theory, and think that the way this unfolds is to get something playable out in the form of SQ42 and then tack the PU on with the new revenue. I am working at a company with 3 major offices in Germany (hence my bad English) one in China and one in USA. All together we are 400 employees. We are a service provider for certifications and exceptional well paid. I asked one of our controller about burn rates and if it is possible to burn 3.5m a month. He said: if you manage to burn so much money a month you literally throwing it out of the window. You can't just add the expenditures. That's not how it works. You need to think about tax reductions, write-offs, public funds for creating jobs and so on. This is especially important for Germany and the UK. Normally after opening a business you don't need to pay (all) the taxes. Shifting money from A to B helps avoiding taxes too. So normally you can't burn more than 2m max if you have one decent controller in your company.
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Sep 27, 2015 11:31
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 Please CIG, could we have a financial statement? Funny thread. quote:and while I can't find any direct information to UK law. I'm going to assume it's similar to US law and that is most definitely not Publicly obtainable information. quote:please read my other post. I've already proved this is false. and their UK tax return is not Publicly available information. AP fucked around with this message at 11:58 on Sep 27, 2015 |
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Sep 27, 2015 11:31
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But what investor is going to want to touch this thing? One issue is they've already milked their fanbase for 90m so that's got to be taken into account, but they'd also have to consider any liabilities from the crowd funding and all the insane promises Croberts has made. It's already seen as a bit of a joke, and if it all falls apart and there was actual wrong doing it's going to become a toxic brand. TwatHammer posted:Being in the UK, how sol am i for refunding this poo poo. Probably not at all. UK consumer rights are pretty strong.
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Sep 27, 2015 11:50
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TwatHammer posted:Being in the UK, how sol am i for refunding this poo poo. You've probably got another two years to get a refund in the UK (cut off is game release + 14 days), so you're good as long as they don't run out of money...
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Sep 27, 2015 12:00
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When Kunark released for Everquest I told my mom it was an investment both in myself and the future of computer gaming.
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Sep 27, 2015 12:03
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Oh good, my refund has been "approved'" by Sandi. I doubt a goon exodus will change anything, particularly while Dsmart is the head anti-cheerleader, but at some point they're going to have to give hard details on what the PU is capable of, and I'm all but certain it will be less than 50 players in any given instance. That has to kill any ideas people had of a true space MMO.
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Sep 27, 2015 12:03
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Can we try to construct the structure of the group? There's quite a lot of entities involved, would they form a structure that allows them to book all revenues down in the UK? I believe I read something about great tax breaks for the game industry being offered for companies down there? United Kingdom: http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//wcframe?name=accessCompanyInfo - Foundry 42 Limited, UK Incorporated: 24 September 2013 quote:Name & Registered Office: - Cloud Imperium Games Limited, UK Incorporated: 13 December 2013 quote:Name & Registered Office: - Roberts Space Industries Limited, UK Incorporated: 7 February 2014 quote:Name & Registered Office: United States: - Cloud Imperium Games, LLC, West Hollywood, CA quote:Incorporation: 10 April 2012 - Cloud Imperium Games Corporation, West Hollywood, CA Incorporation: April 16 2013 http://www.corporationwiki.com/California/West-Hollywood/cloud-imperium-games-corporation/135769792.aspx quote:Filing Type: Statement & Designation By Foreign Corporation - Roberts Space Industries Corp., West Hollywood, CA Incorporation: 16. April 2013 http://www.corporationwiki.com/California/West-Hollywood/roberts-space-industries-corp/135769790.aspx quote:Filing Type: Statement & Designation By Foreign Corporation - Cloud Imperium Games Texas, LLC, West Hollywood, CA Incorporation: 2 October 2013 http://www.corporationwiki.com/p/2fxekb/cloud-imperium-games-texas-llc quote:Filing Type: Domestic Limited Liability Company (LLC) - Gemini 42 Entertainment LLC, West Hollywood, CA Incorporation: 26 December 2013 http://www.corporationwiki.com/p/2elzql/gemini-42-entertainment-llc quote:Filing Type: Domestic Gemini 42 Productions LLC, Santa Monica, CA Incorporation: 28 February 2014 http://www.corporationwiki.com/p/2eu3qb/gemini-42-productions-llc quote:Filing Type: Domestic - Cloud Imperium Games LLC, Santa Monica, CA http://www.corporationwiki.com/p/2iiuie/cloud-imperium-games-llc - Cloud Imperium Games Texas LLC, Austin, Texas http://www.corporationwiki.com/Texas/Austin/cloud-imperium-games-texas-llc/109896805.aspx Germany - Foundry 42 Germany Europa-Allee 52 60327 Frankfurt am Main
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Sep 27, 2015 12:06
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O Hanraha-hanrahan posted:But what investor is going to want to touch this thing? One issue is they've already milked their fanbase for 90m so that's got to be taken into account, but they'd also have to consider any liabilities from the crowd funding and all the insane promises Croberts has made. It's already seen as a bit of a joke, and if it all falls apart and there was actual wrong doing it's going to become a toxic brand. They've had whales waiting in the wings, from the get go, don't be surprised that there are still a few around because ( milked their fanbase for 90m) they can't help thinking there's more
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Sep 27, 2015 12:15
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Gerbil_Pen posted:Serious question: What was it about this kickstarter by Chris Roberts that convinced you to dump a mortgage payment into it? Okay then, incoming wall of text warning for others: Here's how it went from my perspective. I started out a little over 2 years ago by spending 75$ on the thing. I liked that it was a new thing so I figured that justified the 15$ extra + 60$ standard for what was looking to be a project with AAA game ambitions? Yea, I could live with that. Then a couple months later, I was genuinely impressed by the show and dance they did through in the aftermath of gamescom 2013 with the hangar release. This was back when Wingman was the public weekly face and  was just that weird fat guy, who happened to handle the forums and that few knew of, CIG also released the VD store (lol!) simultaneously as they released the hangar (with no significant delays other than a day or two - no 'two weeks' poo poo back then). And I thought: "Huh...alright, well it looks like they're definitely gonna make something out of this in the end now. Might as well go for the 250$ mark and buy me a Super Hornet, since it seems like a cool killer thing." By that time I had met Dusty over there too, who back then was deep into LTI laundering packages en masse, so I knew through him that if I ever changed my mind, the grey market was still out there for me and I might even make a profit. So I bought in, got on the last of the LTI launder train and that was it.Then it started going downhill. Then showed he didn't know dick about community management and had his wild rant on goons 'going after' his precious pet moderators. Then, when he hired James Pugh and Will Lewis I thought that he must've started feeling silly and was willing to hand over the reigns to a couple of people, moreso capable than him with this thing, and he can just gently caress off and focus on fanboying over AtV or whatever else useless thing it is that he does over there. But now - Will Lewis gets fired earlier this year, after certainly doing his work as best as he could from my perspective given the horrible moderators he was given to manage and not replace, probably since they all crawled too far up 's rear end to be lodged out, and James Pugh is let go this week in spite of being a solid worker and cool person.But him being fired and the community poo poo is ultimately just the straw that broke the camel's back for me. As others have noted ITT, it's the fact that over a year we've had nothing significant come out in terms of playable content. A year ago there was a big FPS reveal in PAX AUS, over how we were all soon gonna be floating around and shooting poo poo in the FPS and that thing is still not done. This delay is now bigger than that of Arena Commander! On top of that the poo poo that they do release nowadays (like ArCom) is a buggy, unfun mess and this is the real nail in the coffin for me - very clearly NOT made for multiplayer with friends at all! And they still haven't changed this last part at all! If it isn't the hosed up netcode, it's them completely missing what makes a multiplayer game fun gameplay-wise and basing all of it on IMMERSHUN. For the longest of times I was on the fence and wondering, whether or not to get a refund. But with this latest thing happening (not just James Pugh, a quality worker, being let go while a fat lazy turd, whose only ability is to emphatically fanboy, along with Disco Lando who probably kept his place similarly by crawling up people's assholes. Also that letter from earlier in the week, that detailed how the work process happens from the inside and which is very clearly authentic, or Sandi or whoever wouldn't have kicked up this much fuss and started these firings) it's become very clear to me now that CIG is a toxic company doomed to fail.So TL;DR that's basically why I'm asking for a refund now. I've long since learned that you can't reach CIG through words, but it seems hitting them in their wallets (and which makes a statement for them as it does for those 'evil big publishers' they love to constantly point out as the big bad wolf) will definitely get a message across to them. And of course, there's no point in doing it randomly, so now's the perfect time to seize the moment and join in the wave. I got a reply from Sandi myself, a form type of thing I think, but deffo typed out by her. So yea, prolly gonna get refunded by tommorow since she didn't mention any problems about it, just asked me to confirm if this is exactly what I want. So cool beans.
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Sep 27, 2015 12:20
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Prop Wash posted:It'd be pretty silly of you to not understand that the project is more than just a binary choice between game is coming out vs game is not coming out. The project is certainly seeming less healthy than it has in the past. Some of that perception may be due to sources that you personally might consider sketchy at best (like Derek Smart, known idiot) but regardless it's not up to you to determine what is and is not credible information, given that you have no real evidence that anyone else here doesn't. Anyway, if someone perceives the project to be unhealthy then there's no reason why they shouldn't withdraw their money. The fact that someone was willing to sink $890 into this project says a lot about their level of support for the concept and absolutely nothing about their level of confidence in the project itself, and whether it was $890 or $20,000 it doesn't mean that they can't or shouldn't withdraw their money if they feel the project may not deliver. To claim otherwise is relying pretty heavily on the sunk cost fallacy, which is especially funny given that there are no sunk costs involved here since refunds are supposedly readily available. Well said. I won't be asking for any refunds. But then, I didn't spend any more than I'd also be willing to spend on fireworks for a new-years eve party...
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Sep 27, 2015 12:22
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Has anyone yet mentioned how Chris Robber has the face of an annoying ten-year-old child and how appropriate this is
my girlfriend is Legos fucked around with this message at 12:37 on Sep 27, 2015 |
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Sep 27, 2015 12:25
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| # ? May 19, 2024 07:25 |
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Goredema posted:I guess nowadays, everyone is thinking about Dick Wulf's meat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rw1cdRew-Zg
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Sep 27, 2015 12:29
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