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Spheres of Power Spheres of Power is a Pathfinder third-party supplement by Dropdead Studios that was released in 2014. My interest in this was piqued because I kept reading about it being talked up as a complete replacement for Pathfinder’s (and by extension 3rd Edition’s) entire magic system and comes off far better balanced as a result. In short, it’s not as fiddly as Vancian casting since you don’t need to track spell slots and your spell abilities are more akin to class features, and it’s not as powerful as D&D’s traditional magic since the spells are more, shall we say, reined in and gamist rather than expressive of a fantasy world. Before we get into the meat of the magic system, we first have to take down some basic mechanics: Caster level - this is akin to the Base Attack Bonus, except for spellcasters. Classes like Wizards, Sorcerers, Clerics and Druids, which have “full spellcasting progression”, are classified as High Casters and gain 1 Caster Level per class level, ending at 20 by level 20. Next is a Mid Caster, which gain Caster Levels at a third of the rate, ending at 15 by level 20. Of the core classes, only the Bard falls into this classification, although the custom classes specific to Spheres of Power have more examples. Finally, we have Low Casters, which gain a Caster Level every other level, so they cap out at 10 by level 20. Examples of these are Paladins and Rangers. The Caster Level comes into play when determining the stats of most spells, and like Base Attack Bonus, you sum up your Caster Level across all your classes while multiclassing. A level 6 High Caster has a Caster Level of 6, while a level 6 Low Caster has a Caster Level of 3, so a Wizard 6/Ranger 6 has a Caster Level of 9. Casting Ability Modifier - this is just a way of restating that your Intelligence or Wisdom or Charisma ability modifier is used to determine the stat of your spells. If you multi-class into classes that use different ability modifiers, such as a Wizard’s INT versus a Ranger’s WIS, you have to choose which one will apply and use that moving forward. Saving Throw DC - whenever a spell calls for a saving throw, its save DC is 10 + Caster Level / 2 + Casting Ability Modifier. If our Wizard 6 / Ranger 6 has 18/4 INT, the saving throw DC for any of their spells is 18. Spell Points - a caster has a number spell points equal to their Caster Level, plus their Casting Ability Modifier. Our Wizard 6 / Ranger 6 example would have 13 spell points. These spell points all recover after 8 hours of rest. This early on I’d like to point out that a caster is always going to be able to cast something that doesn’t require any spell points. While the spell points are a resource to be managed, they’re more like metamagic or a martial class’ limited-use abilities, but a caster is still going to have an “at-will” available to them. Magic Talents - these are somewhat similar to Caster Feats and are the key mechanic for letting your customize your spellcasting beyond the most basic form. The first time you gain a level in a spellcasting class, you gain 2 Magic Talents. A Talent can be used to learn one of the 20 magic spheres, or to gain a talent within a sphere. High Casters gain additional talents faster than Low Casters, allowing them to have access to more spheres and be more powerful within those spheres. To see how this all fits together, I’ll start with one of the more basic spheres.  When you learn this sphere, you gain the Destructive Blast spell-like ability. As a standard action, deliver a Destructive Blast as a melee touch attack or a ranged touch attack (with Close range). A Destructive Blast deals 1d6 force damage at level 1, and gains another 1d6 damage every other level, so a maximum of 10d6 at level 19. This is something that the caster can always do, “all day”, since it costs no spell points. The caster can then spend 1 spell point to increase the damage by 1 die per Caster Level. A level 1 Wizard (Caster Level 1) could spend one out of their starting five spell points to make their Destructive Blast deal 2d6 damage, while our example Wizard 6 / Ranger 6 (Caster Level 9) could increase the Blast from 5d6 to 14d6 damage. Now, a level 1 Wizard got all that just by spending one Magic Talent to learn the Destruction sphere, but they still have one more Talent to spare. They can either learn another sphere, or they can learn a Talent inside the Destruction sphere. Destruction Talents These talents are classified into either Blast Shape or Blast Type talents. You can apply one of each to your Destructive Blast. Acid Blast [Type] - you can choose to have your Destructive Blast deal acid damage. Any creature damaged in this way suffers 1 acid damage for every damage die of the Blast in the following round. Air Blast [Type] - you can turn your Destructive Blast into a blast of air. This deals non-lethal damage. You may make a ranged Bull Rush at a target or targets affected by the Air Blast. The Combat Maneuver Bonus for the Bull Rush is equal to your Caster Level + Casting Modifier. If you knock the target into a solid object, they suffer 1d6 bludgeoning damage, +1d6 for every 5 feet they would have kept going past the object. Crystal Blast [Type] - you can turn your Destructive Blast into an explosion of crystal. The Blast rolls d4 damage dice instead of d6 and deals piercing damage. The target must pass a Reflex save or be entangled and be unable to move. In addition, the affected area of the Blast becomes overgrown with crystal and starts counting as difficult terrain. Breaking free of the entangled condition is a move action and needs either a Strength check or an Escape Artist check against the Blast’s save DC. Or the target can try to destroy the crystal by attacking it - the crystal has 3 HP per Caster Level. This removes the Entangled condition and the difficult terrain. The crystal lasts for 1 minute. Electric Blast [Type] - you can choose to have your Destructive Blast deal electric damage. Targets wearing metallic armor suffer a -3 penalty to AC and saving throws against an Electric Blast. The Blast can also ignite combustibles and melt metals with a low melting point. Notice that none of these options I’ve mentioned so far cost spell points Fire Blast [Type] - you can choose to have your Destructive Blast deal fire damage. Targets that take damage this way must make a Reflex save or catch fire. A burning target takes 1d6 per round until the flames are extinguished. A target may take a Reflex save per round to try to extinguish the flames. If the target uses a Full-Round Action to roll on the ground to try to put themselves out, they gain a +4 bonus to the saving throw. Frost Blast [Type] - you can choose to have your Destructive Blast deal frost damage. Targets that take damage this way must make a Fortitude save or be staggered for 1 round. Greater Force Blast [Type] - when rolling Destructive Blast’s damage dice, all 1s and 2s count as 3s. Nether Blast [Type] - you can choose to have your Destructive Blast deal negative energy damage. Targets that take damage this way must make a Will save or be shaken for 1 round. Stone Blast - you can chose to have your Destructive Blast deal slashing and bludgeoning damage. This will make the Blast ignore spell resistance, spell turning, and allows it to penetrate a globe of invulnerability, anti-magic field, anti-magic circle, and is not treated as a spell or magical effect for targets that gain a bonus to saving throws against magic. This one doesn’t sit quite well with me because like traditional D&D magic, it allows a caster to damage both of the Twin Emperors Thunder Blast [Type] - you can chose to have your Destructive Blast deal sonic damage. Targets that take damage this way must make a Fortitude save or be deafened for 2d4 rounds. Blast Trap [Shape] - you may place a Destructive Blast onto an adjacent, occupied square. Any creature that steps on it is affected by your Destructive Blast, and is allowed a Reflex save for half damage. The trap will last for 10 minutes per caster level. The trap’s Perception and Disable Device DC is equal to the saving throw DC. You may only have 1 trap active at a time, but you may take this talent multiple times to increase the number of traps you can have active by 1. So an example of combining a Shape talent and a Type talent would be to plant a trap that deals Frost damage Energy Sphere [Shape] - you may spend a spell point to turn your Destructive Blast into a non-instantaneous sphere that fills a 5-foot square anywhere within range, for 1 round per caster level. Any creature within this space is dealt damage as per your Destructive Blast, with a Reflex save to negate. The sphere has a flying speed of 20 feet + 5 per two caster levels. As a move action, you may direct this sphere to move to a new location and strike a new target. That’s the first example of a talent requiring spell points to activate Energy Wall [Shape] - you may spend a spell point to shape your Destructive Blast into either a wall that is 20 ft per caster level wide, or a hemisphere with a radius of 5 feet per 2 caster levels. This wall is 20 feet high and lasts 1 round per level. The wall does not block line of effect, nor line of sight, nor projectiles, nor thrown objects. Creatures that pass through the wall are dealt damage as per your Destructive Blast. Energy Weapon [Shape] - you can choose the attach your Destructive Blast to a weapon by touching it. If you are wielding this weapon, you may immediately make an attack with it as a free action. The first target struck by the weapon is also affected by the Destructive Blast. If no target is struck within 1 round, the Blast dissipates harmlessly. Explosive Orb [Shape] - you may spend a spell point to make the Destructive Blast into a burst effect centered anywhere within range. The burst has a radius of 10 feet + 5 feet per 5 caster levels. Affected creatures are allowed a Reflex save for half damage. Guided Strike [Shape] - you may spend a spell point to add a +20 circumstance bonus to the Destructive Blast’s attack roll. I'm summarizing here, but apart from the basic functionality, the talent descriptions also go into how the different Shapes and Types can interact, such as when you combine an Air Blast with a Guided Strike, you can choose the direction from which the Air Blast's Bull Rush is going to try and push the target, including straight up, or even straight down, which could then knock the target prone. Rebuff [Shape] - you may use your Destructive Blast to shield a target within range from ranged weapons, area effects or even other Destructive Blasts for 1 round, giving them the benefit of evasion, a +2 cover bonus to AC, and a +1 cover bonus to Reflex saves. Multiply these bonuses by 2 at caster level 5, by 3 at caster level 10, by 4 at caster level 15, and by 5 at caster level 20. You may spend a spell point to perform the Rebuff as an immediate action, or to provide the benefit to all targets within a range of 10 feet + 5 feet per 5 caster levels, or spend two spell points to gain both. So not only did they come up with something so that the Destructive sphere isn’t pure damage, they chose to express it as a form of magical reactive armor. Quite cool. Sculpt Blast [Shape] - you may spend a spell point to create a Destructive Blast as an area effect, affecting either a cone of 10 feet per caster level, or a line of 20 feet per caster level. Instead of an attack roll, creatures will have to make Reflex saves for half damage. Extended Range - increase the range of your Destructive Blast from Close to Medium. You may take this talent an additional time to increase the range from Medium to Long. This is an untyped talent, so its effect always applies. Up Next: There are 19 more spheres to cover: Alteration Creation Conjuration Dark Death Divination Enhancement Fate Illusion Life Light Mind Nature Protection Telekinesis Time War Warp Weather Which one would you like to see next? gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 08:03 on Oct 6, 2015 |
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Oct 6, 2015 06:12
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I remember hearing one works kind of like a Shapeshifter option, presumably Alteration? Would like to see that.
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Oct 6, 2015 06:27
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Let's see Divination and see how many are practical.
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Oct 6, 2015 06:30
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Conjuration! No idea if it has anything to do with the 3.5 version, but there it's the most powerful school by a mile, and it'd be nice to see how it stacks up to the blasting school.
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Oct 6, 2015 06:41
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I own Spheres of Power and like it, but as of lately I find it very hard to do F&F-style reviews nowadays. Thank you for doing this, Gradenko2000. I vote for Dark.
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Oct 6, 2015 06:45
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 Afterthought 16 - The Internet Knows Best! We discuss just how much designers need to check in consistently with the web to make sure they aren't accidentally endorsing a weird fetish (note: it's impossible not to, at best you can ameliorate the long-term issues). Then we answer questions. We need more questions in the email box, btw. Also, this one opens with the weirdest, dumbest skit since that time we tried to make up a 2003 Dreamworks movie.
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Oct 6, 2015 07:25
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I want to see Creation.quote:The caster can then spend 1 spell point to increase the damage by 1 die per Caster Level. A level 1 Wizard (Caster Level 1) could spend one out of their starting five spell points to make their Destructive Blast deal 2d6 damage, while our example Wizard 6 / Ranger 6 (Caster Level 9) could increase the Blast to 10d6 damage.
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Oct 6, 2015 07:52
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Nihilarian posted:shouldn't this be 14d6? 5d6 base plus 9d6 for spending a spell point? Yeah, good catch - corrected.
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Oct 6, 2015 08:06
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What the hell are the Twin Emperors? Also, I'd like to see Light.
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Oct 6, 2015 08:09
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NachtSieger posted:What the hell are the Twin Emperors? Okay, that was a bit of an obscure reference. The Twin Emperors is a boss fight in World of Warcraft where you fight two emperors. One of them is completely immune to physical damage, while the other is completely immune to magical damage. The idea is that roughly half your raid, comprised of the Warriors and Rogues and Hunters will engage the magic immune one, while the Mages, Warlocks and Priests will engage the physical immune one. What I was talking about when made that reference was that in D&D terms, such a fight would not really be an issue for a Wizard, because they have access to spells that "count as physical". You can make a boss "physical immune", even against magical weapons, just by using arbitrarily high AC and/or DR values, but you'd have to pile on exception after exception to make a boss "magic immune", since there are lots of spells that alreday don't consider themselves to be magical to begin with.
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Oct 6, 2015 08:57
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By completely random roll, our next is Sphere is ... Shapeshift When you learn this sphere, you learn the Shapeshift ability. As a standard action, you can cast Shapeshift on yourself or on a touched creature, and the shifted form lasts as long as you concentrate. If the target is unwilling, you need to spend a spell point to cast the Shapeshift, and the target can make a Fortitude save to negate. You can spend a spell point to let the Shapeshift remain for 1 minute per caster level without Concentration. The Shapeshift can be dismissed as a free action. The Shapeshift is considered a polymorph effect. A target can only be affected by one Shapeshift at a time. If a caster attempts to place a second Shapeshift on a target, they must succeed at a magic skill check. If they succeed, the second Shapeshift is successfully placed on the target, dismissing the first. Sidebar: Magic Skill Check When shapeshifting a target, the caster must choose a Form and series of Traits for them. Forms constitute a creature’s basic physical makeup: Humanoid, Draconic, Animalistic, Avian, etc Traits are special characteristics or alterations such as natural attacks, creature size, monster special abilities, etc. A caster can grant 1 trait + 1 per 5 caster levels. Traits cannot be granted more than once unless specified. When you place a Form on a target (again, including possibly yourself), the target’s physical form changes to that of the desired creature. The target gains the limbs of that form and loses their original limbs. The target loses any Ex or Su abilities that are dependent on the original form and gains any new ones that are part of the new form. If the target has or can gain traits via other sources, such as a Dragon Sorceror’s ability to grow claws, they can still do so. The target’s equipment melds into this new form, causing them to lose their armor and shield bonuses and preventing them from being able to pull items from their inventory. Any magical items cannot be activated, though passive effects remain. You cannot use Shapeshifting to assume the form of a specific individual, but this does grant a +10 bonus to Disguise checks if you just need to look like another race, gender or species. The caster may want the target to cosmetically appear as any form they want, but if the traits are in conflict, such as having too many legs or being too large, the disguise might fail completely. Lots of text and explanations, basically setting up the parameters for shapeshifting. I feel like there’s maybe not enough guidance on the implications of shifting yourself into a different form, although perhaps the base rules and statblocks can handle that? Blank Form This is a specific form of Shapeshifting that allows the caster to provide traits to a target without fundamentally changing their physical form. This blank form grants no bonus to Disguise checks, but allows existing abilities, equipment, natural attacks and other such aspects to be retained. Basic Available Traits You can add these traits to a Shapeshifted target as part of simply learning the Alteration sphere. The target must posses the appropriate limb, and cannot grant a natural attack to a limb if the target already has one associated with it. * Darkvision 60 feet * Low-light vision * 2 claw attacks (primary attack, 1d4, requires arms) * 1 bite attack (primary attack, 1d6, requires head) * 1 gore attack (primary attack, 1d6, requires head) * 2 slam attacks (primary attack 1d4, requires arms) * 2 pincers (secondary attack, 1d6, requires arms) * A change to the target’s cosmetic appearance. The examples cited include changing the target’s apparent age, making an elf into an orc, disguising a large dog as a small pony, changing a male into a female, and other such alterations. This grants the target a +10 bonus to Disguise checks. This particular trait can only be applied to the blank form, since a “normal” shapeshift carries with it a host of assumed physical changes anyway. Alteration Talents Additional Limbs - you can apply the following traits to any form: * An extra pair of arms * A prehensile tail, which can be used to hold objects as if it were a hand, or retrieve objects from your inventory as a swift action * Tail slap (secondary attack, 1d6, requires tail) * Stinger (primary attack, 1d4, requires tail) * An extra pair of legs. If this gives the target a second pair of legs, they get a +4 CMD bonus against trip attempts, and they gain all of the encumbrance and mount-related benefits of being a quadruped * An extra head Animal Mind - when shapeshifting a target, the target must pass a Will save or have their mind become bestial. Their INT drops to 2 and they are treated as an animal for the purposes tof Handle Animal and Diplomacy checks. They cannot cast spells nor Su nor Ex abilities, but they retain other class features such as BAB and other abilities. This strikes me as a save-or-suck spell, but it would require a spell point since the target is unwilling, it’ll have to pass a Fort save just for the shapeshift itself, and then a Will save for this trait in particular. Animalistic Transformation - you may grant the Form of a land animal or magical beast with your Shapeshift. The form has a head and 4 legs with all the benefits of being a quadruped. The form has a move speed of 40 feet + 20 feet per 5 caster levels. The form has the Scent ability, a bite attack and a +2 natural AC bonus, +1 per 5 caster levels. Taking this talent also allows you to grant the the land speed, the Scent ability and 2 hoof attacks as traits to your other shapeshifts. Okay, since Forms are tied to talents, I think what happens is that when you learn the Alteration sphere, you only know the Blank Form and that small set of traits, and then you need to spend talents to learn the other Forms. Which is good, because it obviates the need to refer to a Monster Manual and keeps the power of shapeshifting strictly within the terms defined in this particular book. Anthropomorphic Transformation - you may grant the Form of a humanoid with your Shapeshift. The Form has 2 legs and 2 arms. The target can speak, with one language that you know. The target will have a land speed of 30 feet, and its Intelligence is increased 6 if it’s lower than 6. If you so choose, you can forego applying any other traits to this form, to allow the target to retain as many of its previous traits as possible. Aquan Transformation - you may grant the Form of a swimming animal or magical beast with your Shapeshift. The form has a head, fins, but no arms nor legs. The target gains low-light vision and a swim speed of 20 feet + 20 feet per 5 caster levels. The target gains the Amphibious subtype and the ability to breathe underwater. The target gains a bite attack, Blindsense 30 feet while in water, and a+2 natural AC bonus, +1 per 5 caster levels. Taking this talent also allows you to grant the Amphibious subtype and ability to breathe underwater, the swim speed granted by this Form, and/or Blindsense 30 feet in water, as Traits. Avian Transformation - you may grant the Form of a flying animal or magical beast with your Shapeshift. The target gains a head, 2 legs and 2 wings. The target gains low-light vision, 2 talon attacks, and a +2 natural AC bonus, +1 per 5 caster levels. The target takes no falling damage and can glide. At caster level 5, the target gains a Fly speed of 30 feet + 20 feet per 5 caster levels. Taking this talent also allows you to grant 2 talon attacks, 2 wings and flight, and/or 2 wing attacks, as Traits. Okay, so presumably a Wizard could still gain the ability to fly by level 5, although I couldn’t say if this would necessarily be as powerful as a Core Wizard in the context of everything else they can cast. A level 5 Wizard would have 8 Talent Points, so they could learn this Sphere, then the Avian Transformation Talent, then the Destruction sphere, and still have 5 Talent points left over. Take the Extended Range Destruction talent twice and still have 3 Talent points left. Use the Blank Form shapeshift, grant themselves the wings, then plink monsters from 600 feet away. And it’ll last as long as you can maintain Concentration. Bestial Reflexes - you can add the following Traits to your Forms: * Lunge: choose one natural attack. As a full-attack action, you may make a single attack at double your normal recah with that weapon with a +4 attack bonus. * Leaping Attack: as a standard action, you may jump, making a single attack at any point during the leap. You do not provoke an attack of opportunity for leaving a threatened square. * Pounce: you may make a full-attack after a charge. * Trample: as a full-round action, you may move up to your move speed, moving over and dealing slam damage to creatures smaller than yourself. Targets of a trample can make an attack of opportunity, but at a -4 penalty. Or they can make a Reflex save for half damage. Bestial Spirit - you can add the following Traits to your Forms: * Trip: choose one natural attack. You may attempt a trip as a free action that does not provoke an attack of opporunity when it hits. * Ferocity: you may stay conscious and continue to fight when at negative HP, but lose 1 HP per round when you do so. * You gain the ability to speak with animals and vermin. * Rend: when you successfully strike a target with 2 or more claw attacks in the same round, you deal damage equal to an additional claw attack. Dragon Transformation - you may grant the form of a dragon with your Shapeshift. The target gains a head, 4 legs (and is a quadruped), a tail, and a +2 natural AC bonus, +1 AC per 5 caster levels. The target also gains Darkvision 60 feet, a bite attack and a breath weapon. The breath weapon deals 1d8 damage per 2 caster levels in a 60 foot line or a 30 foot cone, and can deal fire/electricity/acid/cold damage as chosen at the time of the Shapeshift. The breath weapon allows a Reflex save for half damage and can be used once every 1d4 rounds. Taking this talent also allows you grant the breath weapon, or to double the size/range of an existing weapon, as a Trait. See this is what I was talking about when I'm saying the magic is a lot more reined in. You still have all your stats, except you look like a Dragon and you have a determinate set of bonuses / special abilities, rather can casting True Polymorph on yourself and turning into a CR 20+ behemoth from the Monster Manual. Elemental Transformation - you may grant the form of an elemental with your Shapeshift. An elemental’s body is mutable, so no additional limbs or natural attacks can be added via Traits. The target gains a 25% chance to avoid critical hits and precision damage, plus 25% per 5 caster levels to cap out at 100%. The target gains 2 slam attacks, +2 natural AC bonus, +1 AC per 5 caster levels and one of the following Trait packages: * Earth: darkvision 60 feet, 30 feet burrow speed + 15 feet per 5 caster levels, and the Earth Glide ability. You gain a +2 STR bonus and Acid Resistance equal to caster level. * Fire: darkvision 60 feet, +2 DEX bonus, the Burn special quality, and Fire Resistance equal to caster level. * Air: flight speed of 30 feet, + 30 feet per 5 caster levels, the ability to create a Whirlwind (as an Air Elemental monster) and Electricity Resistance equal to caster level. * Water: waterbreathing, 30 feet swim speed + 30 feet per 5 caster levels, +2 CON bonus, the ability to create a Vortex (as a Water Elemental monster) and Cold Resistance equal to caster level. Taking this talent also allows you grant a Trait for Elemental Resistance to acid/fire/electricity/cold equal to caster level. Giant Traits - you may grant the Rock Catching, and the Rock Throwing abilities to your Shapeshift, as Traits. Greater Transformation - increase the number of Traits you can apply with your Shapeshift by 1. Mass Alteration - you may spend a spell point to Shapeshift an additional 1 creature per 2 caster levels at the same time. Each target must be within range and gain the same Shapeshift Form and Traits. This one is interesting because by as early as caster level 6 you can Shapeshift the entire 4-man party into having wings. Plant Transformation - you may grant the form of a plant creature with your Shapeshift. The Form has 2 tree limbs or vines that will act as its arms. The target wil have a move speed of 20 feet, 2 slam attacks and a +4 natural AC bonus, +1 AC per 5 caster levels. You can also grant a Trait that gives a +2 natural AC bonus, which stacks with other natural AC bonuses. Ranged Alteration - you may cast Shapeshift within Close range instead of Touch. You may take this Talent additional times to increase the range to Medium, then finally to Long. Size change - as a Trait, you may change the target’s size. You may enlarge or reduce the target by 1 category, plus another category per 5 caster levels. There’s a bunch of tables here to reflect the changes to attack rolls, AC, Fly checks, Stealth checks, STR, DEX and CON, though I assume that’s part of the normal procedure for changing in size. Also, I can think of a lot of shenanigans that can be had with this ability. Subterranean Transformation - you may grant the form of a subterranean animal or magical beast with your Shapeshift. The form has a head, 4 legs, a 30 foot land speed, a 15 foot burrow speed + 15 per 5 caster levels. The target also gains Darkvision 60 feet, Tremorsense 20 feet, a bite attack and a +2 natural AC bonus, +1 per 5 caster levels. You can also grant the burrow speed, and/or the Tremorsense, as Traits. Tentacles - you may add the following Traits to your forms: * A tentacle attack (secondary attack, 1d4) * Grab: on a successful natural attack, you can make a free grapple check. * Constrict: deal 1d6 damage + STR on every successful grapple check. Undead Traits - you may add the following Traits to your forms: * DR 5/bludgeoning or DR 5/slashing. This increases by 1 every 5 caster levels. At caster level 10, you can change this to DR/Silver or DR/Magic * The subject counts as undead for the purposes of positive or negative energy effects * A bonus on saving throws against mind-affecting effects, disease, poison, sleep and stunning. The bonus is equal to half caster level. * At caster level 10, grant the Blood Drain special quality. * At caster level 10, grant the Fear Aura special quality * At caster level 15 and at the cost of a spell point, the target can be made incorporeal. This feels a bit out of place against the more straight Druidic forms of transformation. Vermin Transformation - you may grant the form of a spider, insect, or other such creature with your Shapeshift. The form has a head and either 6 or 8 legs, a bite attack, Darkvision 60 feet, a +2 natural AC bonus +1 per 5 caster levels, and a Climb speed of 30 feet + 20 per 5 caster levels. Taking this Talent also allows you to grant poison with natural attacks, or the Climb speed of the Form, or the Web special ability, as traits. Overall, I like it. That Avian transformation is potentially bad, but it's difficult to visualize the kind of gamebreaking trouble you could get into if none of the original PF spells exist, either (besides being out of reach of melee-only monsters obviously). And even then you could share the wealth with everyone else. Maybe there's also some kind of super-combo you can do with natural attacks and pounce and whatnot, but I'm no PF expert enough to pick that out off the cuff. I do especially like how much simpler the Shapeshifting mechanic is, how it can be permanent from the word go, and how it can still be compatible with martial character with low spellcasting ability scores since it costs you nothing to transform yourself. After years of playing Diablo and WoW, the particular way 3.PF handled Shapeshifting always seemed weird to me since it was so rationed and needed so much effort. Up Next: Creation - 1 Conjuration - 1 Dark - 1 Death Divination - 1 Enhancement Fate Illusion Life Light - 1 Mind Nature Protection Telekinesis Time War Warp Weather
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Oct 6, 2015 11:04
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senrath posted:Another problem was that in 2e one of the best defenses against social combat was to just punch someone in the face, due to the difference between ticks and long ticks. See, this was always good to me, because I cannot see the attraction in allowing NPC's to mind control PC's, or PC's to control each other. If someone starts up social combat against a PC and he feels like he's gonna get brainwashed into no longer controlling his character, he should be allowed to just reach out and slap the stuffing out of the person attempting it. But then again, I always thought "social combat" was a loving awful idea.
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Oct 6, 2015 12:33
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I've always had similar misgivings, dating back to when Earthdawn introduced the concept to me, and reinforced by some really loving creepily spergy WoD MUSH arguments (short form: PCs are just player controlled NPCs, so they're fair game for a creepy fuckhead who dumped points into gaming the lovely seduction rules). Mind control is something that works fine in fiction, but fiction isn't typically written by a table full of people, one or two of whom are stuck uttering the occasional 'yes, master' while grumpily surfing the net on their phones. It was a lovely deal with charm person and magic jar, and has only become a more complicated lovely deal since.
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Oct 6, 2015 12:54
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One if my favorite charms was a martial arts charm that let you cancel a social charm by punching the user in the face.
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Oct 6, 2015 12:59
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Something I really like about Burning Wheel/Empires' Duel of Wits is that the consequences are clearly explained ("If character A wins, character B will go along with this"), OOC consent from all the parties involved is required, and both attacker and defender stand to gain something from the argument. Even the savviest diplomancer is going to have their argument punched once, so compromise will more often than not be a necessity, and it's explicitly not about mind control: any character may walk away at any time, and even if they lose the argument they are not necessarily convinced, merely forced to go along for the moment. The thing is, though, that an effective diplomancer in Burning games only needs a couple of core skills and knowledge of the Duel's maneuver system, so they can do other things aside from fast talking people. Exalted expects social-focused characters to be built just as martial-focused ones to achieve those fancy "I'll write a letter such that it will kill him" effects, but there's less of an incentive to do that if your opponent can simply opt out of the thing you specialized in with a punch to the throat.
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Oct 6, 2015 17:01
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Spheres of Power sounds intriguing. It kinda reminds me of these official "Words of Power" rules released in Ultimate Magic, except far more streamlined and removed from Vancian magic.Alien Rope Burn posted:The Katana is made by Bushido Industries of the Bushi Federation. Presumably, when you're done buying one, you can go down to Bushi Burger and have a Samurai Slider. After that, you hail a Ronin Ricksaw, which takes you to your Daimyotel, and have a nice rest on your bed which doesn't have a fancy name, but the mattress is padded with unsheathed sword blades. But has the Katana's hull plating been folded hundreds - if not thousands - of times? And has the ejection seat been replaced with a seppuku mechanism? That's what I wanna know. theironjef posted:3e confirmed my belief that the game was originally meant to be a Final Fantasy 7 simulator by taking the initiative/crash system almost wholesale from FF: Dissidia. Isn't this kinda sorta what FATE and Mutants & Mastermind are already doing?
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Oct 6, 2015 17:16
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Doresh posted:Isn't this kinda sorta what FATE and Mutants & Mastermind are already doing? I'm not sure where FATE does anything like that?
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Oct 6, 2015 17:24
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Doresh posted:Isn't this kinda sorta what FATE and Mutants & Mastermind are already doing? Don't know from Mutants and Masterminds, but I'm currently working with FATE. Do you mean the Advantage system, where you use your attack action for a round to try some skill instead to give you an invocation in a future round? It's definitely not as close to Dissidia as the "Build power potential with one sort of attack until you release it with the other sort of attack" model that Exalted 3 is apparently building on.
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Oct 6, 2015 17:36
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Traveller posted:Something I really like about Burning Wheel/Empires' Duel of Wits is that the consequences are clearly explained ("If character A wins, character B will go along with this"), OOC consent from all the parties involved is required, and both attacker and defender stand to gain something from the argument. If everyone basically has to agree on what they're cool with OOC, though, why even use PC vs PC social combat at all? Why not just have them talk out what their characters would go along with(and what they think would be cool for the story), and then hash out, OOC, what they think would be a decent IC compromise? (Or perhaps even one player going "my guy isn't very smart, yours will absolutely flim-flam him, but once he realizes it, he'll be PISSED.")
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Oct 6, 2015 17:38
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PurpleXVI posted:If everyone basically has to agree on what they're cool with OOC, though, why even use PC vs PC social combat at all? Why not just have them talk out what their characters would go along with(and what they think would be cool for the story), and then hash out, OOC, what they think would be a decent IC compromise? (Or perhaps even one player going "my guy isn't very smart, yours will absolutely flim-flam him, but once he realizes it, he'll be PISSED.") Because it resolves how many/how big of concessions the winning side has to give. The OOC talk at the beginning is 'this is 100% what I want, and that is 100% what you want', and the after resolution OOC is 'I have to give you a small/moderate/large concession, how does this sound?'.
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Oct 6, 2015 17:41
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PurpleXVI posted:If everyone basically has to agree on what they're cool with OOC, though, why even use PC vs PC social combat at all? Why not just have them talk out what their characters would go along with(and what they think would be cool for the story), and then hash out, OOC, what they think would be a decent IC compromise? (Or perhaps even one player going "my guy isn't very smart, yours will absolutely flim-flam him, but once he realizes it, he'll be PISSED.") Using the system, a talky character is still going to be able to force better concessions than one that is not specialized for it. Making everything OOC agreements means that those points spent in talky skills are worthless investments, and I know you abhor the concept of social skills in general but if the game allows people to get Persuade or Rhetoric or whathaveyou then there has to be a mechanical incentive to get them into play. Otherwise, we're getting into "let me describe my katana blow really nice" territory.
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Oct 6, 2015 17:45
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theironjef posted:Don't know from Mutants and Masterminds, but I'm currently working with FATE. Do you mean the Advantage system, where you use your attack action for a round to try some skill instead to give you an invocation in a future round? It's definitely not as close to Dissidia as the "Build power potential with one sort of attack until you release it with the other sort of attack" model that Exalted 3 is apparently building on. Oh, they're going for a 1:1 adaption? Nevermind. I thought damage was just going to be a bit swingy.
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Oct 6, 2015 17:46
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Social powers in Legends of the Wulin are great because rather than just being straight-up mind control, they're a carrot/stick generator. Any bonuses or penalties that you apply to someone with social combat (or cursing them, or doing medical stuff to them, or even just doing actual damage to them) come with an attached behavior. If it's a bonus, the character has to follow that behavior to get the bonus, but if they don't there's no real penalty. If you're applying a penalty, the mechanical penalty only applies when the character isn't following the attached behavior. You get to influence the behavior of other characters, but you don't get to actually make them carry out your bidding.theironjef posted:
Didn't Witch Girl Adventures turn out to be made by some transformation fetishists or something? I remember there was something weird to it if you knew that was a thing, but if you didn't then it never really came up.
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Oct 6, 2015 17:51
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Lynx Winters posted:Didn't Witch Girl Adventures turn out to be made by some transformation fetishists or something? I remember there was something weird to it if you knew that was a thing, but if you didn't then it never really came up.
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Oct 6, 2015 17:53
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Evil Mastermind posted:The main artist had a rather disturbing DA page, but even not knowing that there was the art of mundane people being turned into objects and killed. Admittedly, if you ask an average person on the street what a witch does, you're probably about to hear "bake children" and "turn people into frogs." Right after flying brooms around. That said, the opening story in Witch Girls is basically some girls in an alley killing a bunch of bullies in hugely horrible ways, so the book has some weird tone issues where murder is just a joke thing the girls do between smoothies at the mall. Basically, the book is one missing sentence away ("All transformation magic pops back to normal an hour later and the person transformed is fine") away from being a harmless cartoon. Without that sentence, the book ends up being a fetishy snuff film simulator. Plus yeah one of the iconic witches is apparently one of the artist's fetish transformation dom characters, so there's tons of extra-book material floating around of her torturing and murdering people through transformation magic, all presented in the same sort of tone you'd get from when Elmyra would hug Pinky and the Brain too hard. theironjef fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Oct 6, 2015 |
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Oct 6, 2015 18:03
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Traveller posted:Using the system, a talky character is still going to be able to force better concessions than one that is not specialized for it. Making everything OOC agreements means that those points spent in talky skills are worthless investments, and I know you abhor the concept of social skills in general but if the game allows people to get Persuade or Rhetoric or whathaveyou then there has to be a mechanical incentive to get them into play. Otherwise, we're getting into "let me describe my katana blow really nice" territory. I was talking about PC vs PC use, or NPC vs PC use. PC vs NPC use I have no real issue with.
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Oct 6, 2015 18:05
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Doresh posted:Isn't this kinda sorta what FATE and Mutants & Mastermind are already doing? No clue on M&M, but I think what you're thinking of in regards to FATE is the Ruined Empires campaign setting they drafted up during the Kickstarter, which was meant to be a world in the style of FFVII but included no actual specialty rules or different systems from FATE Core.
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Oct 6, 2015 18:44
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Well, an overt fetish game like WGA is different than games like After the Bomb where it gets qualified as a "furry game" without any intent on the part of writers. When a game is deliberately a fetish vehicle, it's a whole different story. Of course, a lot depends on the acceptance of the fetish. Vampire is hard to see objectively (in hindsight) as anything other than a fetish vehicle based loosely on soft porn novels. But it gets over it's extremely questionable sexual overtones due to a century of mainstream vampire lit giving it a veneer of normality.
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Oct 6, 2015 18:53
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LornMarkus posted:No clue on M&M, but I think what you're thinking of in regards to FATE is the Ruined Empires campaign setting they drafted up during the Kickstarter, which was meant to be a world in the style of FFVII but included no actual specialty rules or different systems from FATE Core. Well this makes sense considering that Dissidia and FF7 have nothing in common in the mechanics department aside from damage reducing HP.
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Oct 6, 2015 18:55
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Doresh posted:Well this makes sense considering that Dissidia and FF7 have nothing in common in the mechanics department aside from damage reducing HP. Oh, wait, no Ruined Empires was for Tenra Bansho Zero. Hmm, have to check all those setting books I had from the FATE kickstarter then. Edit: Huh, well I've got stuff like Camelot Trigger and Kriegszeppelin Valkyrie in there but nothing for FFVII. No clue where that's coming from then. LornMarkus fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Oct 6, 2015 |
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Oct 6, 2015 19:00
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LornMarkus posted:Oh, wait, no Ruined Empires was for Tenra Bansho Zero. Hmm, have to check all those setting books I had from the FATE kickstarter then. Spikey hair? Big swords? Evil corporations? Some weird afterlife juice? Birds as mounts? Maybe it's just kinda sorta JRPG-ish and they decided to just use Final Fantasy for marketing reasons? And what other setting could you possibly want if you already have Grimdark Feudal Japan with a bit of Devil May Cry and Fist of the North Star mixed into it?
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Oct 6, 2015 19:11
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theironjef posted:That said, the opening story in Witch Girls is basically some girls in an alley killing a bunch of bullies in hugely horrible ways, so the book has some weird tone issues where murder is just a joke thing the girls do between smoothies at the mall. I think "Mean Girls, but with Witches" would be pretty great.
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Oct 6, 2015 19:30
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Doresh posted:Spikey hair? Big swords? Evil corporations? Some weird afterlife juice? Birds as mounts? Maybe it's just kinda sorta JRPG-ish and they decided to just use Final Fantasy for marketing reasons? For TBZ? Well the other two settings that are coming out of its Kickstarter are Mythos Hunters Zero (tweaked TBZ rules to do Cthulhu Mythos paranormal investigations) and a last I checked unnamed rules hack to let you play a Persona-styled game.
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Oct 6, 2015 19:34
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PurpleXVI posted:See, this was always good to me, because I cannot see the attraction in allowing NPC's to mind control PC's, or PC's to control each other. If someone starts up social combat against a PC and he feels like he's gonna get brainwashed into no longer controlling his character, he should be allowed to just reach out and slap the stuffing out of the person attempting it. But then again, I always thought "social combat" was a loving awful idea. It also works for when a PC tries to use social combat on an NPC, and there's more to social combat than mind control. Or at least there would be if the system wasn't badly designed so that there's pretty much no reason to ever use the non-mind control stuff (the "combat supersedes social combat" issue doesn't help with this). Not to mention that the outright mind control stuff often can't be interrupted with a punch, anyway. And the idea behind social combat is for a space between the overly simple D&D model of a single dice roll and the "I'm great at talking so my characters always get what they want/I'm bad at talking so no one ever listens to my character" model that talking OOC can sometimes foster. And in a non-lovely system you can end up with an element of surprise, where no one's really sure exactly who is going to come out on top.
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Oct 6, 2015 19:48
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PurpleXVI posted:I was talking about PC vs PC use, or NPC vs PC use. PC vs NPC use I have no real issue with. So if two PCs want to physically fight each other for whatever the reasons people get up to PvP in their RPGs, is the idea then that they should just negotiate out how much damage each of them takes without any rolling? "Well Bob, I'd really like it if I could just chop your head off." "Eh Steve, I dunno, I was thinking more of a lingering mortal wound sorta deal..." I mean if both players are collaborating together on "The Death of Bob by the Coward Steve" then they might actually do that if Bob's decided that he wants his dramatic death scene by Steve's hand now, but in more cases than not two players engaging in PvP are going to actually roll it out because presumably neither is interested in having things be decided beforehand and/or aren't in a place where "let's just resolve it OOC" is going to satisfy either of them. With that in mind it's not tremendously hard to make the conceptual leap from "hitting each other with swords" to "hitting each other with words." Exalted 2E's lovely social combat system is entirely a product of Exalted 2E being poo poo, it's perfectly possible to have social conflict rules that work for PvP if you want without devolving into "I use magic mind control, well I PUNCH YOU IN THE FACE STEVE."
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Oct 6, 2015 20:25
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Kai Tave posted:I mean if both players are collaborating together on "The Death of Bob by the Coward Steve" then they might actually do that if Bob's decided that he wants his dramatic death scene by Steve's hand now, but in more cases than not two players engaging in PvP are going to actually roll it out because presumably neither is interested in having things be decided beforehand and/or aren't in a place where "let's just resolve it OOC" is going to satisfy either of them. With that in mind it's not tremendously hard to make the conceptual leap from "hitting each other with swords" to "hitting each other with words." Exalted 2E's lovely social combat system is entirely a product of Exalted 2E being poo poo, it's perfectly possible to have social conflict rules that work for PvP if you want without devolving into "I use magic mind control, well I PUNCH YOU IN THE FACE STEVE." Exalted - trying to accomplish what Maid RPG already does. LornMarkus posted:For TBZ? Well the other two settings that are coming out of its Kickstarter are Mythos Hunters Zero (tweaked TBZ rules to do Cthulhu Mythos paranormal investigations) and a last I checked unnamed rules hack to let you play a Persona-styled game. Now the latter one sounds intriguing, though TBZ already kinda sorta does Shin Megami Tensei with those computer wizard dudes.
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Oct 6, 2015 20:44
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Doresh posted:Now the latter one sounds intriguing, though TBZ already kinda sorta does Shin Megami Tensei with those computer wizard dudes. Yup, I believe the biggest change is they were rejiggering the Emotion Matrix into something that could be more tightly integrated with the . . . I'm at work and drawing a blank on the name, but the system where you have the stuff your character cares about that you cultivate and then ultimately sublimate or discard to lower your Karma score. Either way, they're integrating an altered Emotion Matrix with that to make a Social Link system.
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Oct 6, 2015 20:49
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Kai Tave posted:So if two PCs want to physically fight each other for whatever the reasons people get up to PvP in their RPGs, is the idea then that they should just negotiate out how much damage each of them takes without any rolling? "Well Bob, I'd really like it if I could just chop your head off." "Eh Steve, I dunno, I was thinking more of a lingering mortal wound sorta deal..." Ideally there shouldn't be any PvP in most RPG's, and if there is, then yes, it's probably a good idea if the players talk out what they want out of it first. If it's really a grudge match where they both want to murder the other, wow, yeah, your group is probably hosed, so most likely if it's a fight that won't totally poo poo up your game with hard feelings, yes, they can probably agree on what should happen. Or at least agree OOC whether it's to the death, to surrender, etc. to make sure that no one's suddenly out of the game just because Dave rolled a natural 20 and lopped off their head. Most games aren't balanced around PC vs PC fights in the first place, because it tends to be assumed that the players will specialize in different ways, so it's almost guaranteed that one of them will be better at combat than the other(or perhaps specifically better at fighting a single powerful opponent, like another PC), to the point where it's just a hilariously unbalanced beatdown, so, unless your players designed their characters around PvP from the word go... probably it isn't really going to be much fun for anyone anyway to just run it by the books. Senrath posted:It also works for when a PC tries to use social combat on an NPC, and there's more to social combat than mind control. However, if your GM's response to every attempt at social combat is "the NPC reaches over and lightly slaps you, disrupting what you were doing utterly." then your GM is probably a cock who just wants to ruin the game for you. I mean, that seems less of a failing of the system, more of a failing of the GM if he abuses that "out" for NPC's(unless of course you do/say something that would reasonably make them blow their top and take a swing at you, in which case, again, it seems to me to be pretty good that there's a mechanical "out" in the rules that lets them actually react violently.).
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Oct 6, 2015 21:02
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Well I actually agree that physical PvP should, if it happens, be preceded by some OOC discussion between the participating parties instead of Steve just going "Oh btw I murder Bob in his sleep." That's an excellent point. But by the same token then, why is "but what if one PC tries to social-fu another PC?" even a concern that needs to be raised re: social combat systems at that point? "But one character could diplomance another character with his super-powered negotiation charms" isn't any different from the possibility that one character could spread another across the walls like jam with his mega-dice melee combo. If it's happening without some sort of prior discussion then you have bigger problems than janky game mechanics. As for NPC on PC social combat, well, again the problem is social combat systems that boil down to "haha now I mind control you, go murder your family for me." It'd be similarly lovely of a game had a combat system where the any given person could roll a die and, whoops, looks like he just killed your character no save. Part of the issue too though, in my opinion, is how weird it is that players get really knee-jerk over anything that might influence their character in any way aside from physical violence. Murder, torture, infestation by body-horror parasites, disfigurement, all this stuff is accepted as fair game without a second thought, but the moment the possibility exists that an NPC might persuade a PC of something then all at once it's like what no gently caress YOU, you can't tell me what to do, I punch the ambassador in the face. I know the usual argument has to do with preserving player agency, but "your character dies" is pretty much the ultimate loss of agency and that's considered such a default component of the typical RPG experience that most people don't even question it.
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Oct 6, 2015 21:26
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LornMarkus posted:Yup, I believe the biggest change is they were rejiggering the Emotion Matrix into something that could be more tightly integrated with the . . . I'm at work and drawing a blank on the name, but the system where you have the stuff your character cares about that you cultivate and then ultimately sublimate or discard to lower your Karma score. Either way, they're integrating an altered Emotion Matrix with that to make a Social Link system. I think that's just straight up called the Karma System, which can - with some tinkering - represent something out of Persona 4 where you're repressed feelings and desires form a Shadow. The major change would involve gaining Karma not because you hold onto something, but because you deny that you do (cue the "You're not me! - I am a Shadow, the true self!"-routine). And using the Emotion Matrix for long-term tracking of relationships sounds nifty. Doresh fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Oct 6, 2015 |
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Oct 6, 2015 21:39
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