Star Citizen: Fear, Uncertainty, and Debt

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Star Citizen: Fear, Uncertainty, and Debt

Oscar Wilde Bunch: Jun 12, 2012; Grimey Drawer

Jst0rm posted:

hey dsmart if you want some more material go look at croberts imdb and cross check all the movies he was involved with and how much they made vs spent. its very lol wtf.

Though I think as a rule the producers never actually lose money, no matter how badly a film does.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 23:42

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# ? May 6, 2024 10:47

Hav: Dec 11, 2009; Fun Shoe

Tijuana Bibliophile posted:

What the gently caress a butt kicker? I now officially proclaim the world at peak stupid.

NSFW, Obviously. https://vimeo.com/96238700

# ? Oct 7, 2015 23:43

Jst0rm: Sep 16, 2012; Grimey Drawer

Iron Tusk posted:

Though I think as a rule the producers never actually lose money, no matter how badly a film does.

of course they do. Lots of movies lose money. A producer may just be another hired person and is making money on a money losing venture but movies absolutely do lose money. lol.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 23:44

G0RF: Mar 19, 2015; Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

If Derek Smart is really going to do a Youtube/Twitch TownHall type conference about Star Citizen's woes, I really hope Beer will join in.

EDIT TO ADD: If he does it Saturday during Citcon, offering runtime commentary on Twitch, it would be bloody hilarious. I would honestly pay money to watch that.

G0RF fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Oct 7, 2015

# ? Oct 7, 2015 23:48

B_of_InfoRedux: Oct 6, 2015; WANT A MELTDOWN? KEEP READING FROM YOUR MOTHERS BASEMENTS WHILE YOU BEAT YOUR TINY DICK SECRETLY THINKING OF SANDI YOU HYPOCRITICAL PIECES OF HUMAN GARBAGE.

Bootcha posted:

I'm trying to be more funny and clever than I should. Obviously they can't rip up my contract at a moment's notice, and I have legal rights to address issues I perceive within the business. As it stands I'm being more tactful with my rights that probably most investors would/are, probably why I wasn't "bought out" awhile ago after $25 mil.

I don't know of guys...bootcha is awfully close to gotcha. Just saying.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 23:48

Wiggly Wayne DDS: Sep 11, 2010

Bootcha posted:

I'm trying to be more funny and clever than I should. Obviously they can't rip up my contract at a moment's notice, and I have legal rights to address issues I perceive within the business. As it stands I'm being more tactful with my rights that probably most investors would/are, probably why I wasn't "bought out" awhile ago after $25 mil.

The more you post the more questions that are raised. Which entity are you invested with, and do they have meetings where they explain where the money is, what it's doing, and when you'll get more of it back then you put in? I mean as an investor you should have a very clear outline of their business environment and you should be able to get concrete information on finances. How did you end up in this profit sharing contract, and how many others are involved that you are aware of? What about other investor dealings, how many are involved there?

Based on your tactfulness it doesn't sound like you're a big fish in the pond, but that shouldn't dissuade you at all from asking questions about what your money is doing in the company. I mean it's fine to say that you're not divulging business critical information for confidentiality reasons, but you should still have access to that information or something very wrong is going on.

Agrajag posted:

I'm curious what your thought process was for actually investing in Crobizzle. I'm not trying to be glib here I'm legitimately curious.

I'm curious as well but understand if you don't want people questioning you on your original investment.

B_of_InfoRedux posted:

I don't know of guys...bootcha is awfully close to gotcha. Just saying.

It hardly matters when the tale is this interesting.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 23:53

Mekchu: Apr 10, 2012; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Iron Tusk posted:

Though I think as a rule the producers never actually lose money, no matter how badly a film does.

Most of the time there are precautions taken to secure the investment whenever someone wants to get an "executive producer" credit on a flick.

# ? Oct 7, 2015 23:58

hypnorotic: May 4, 2009

Why does Chis Roberts sign his poo poo like this????

Chris Roberts
- Chris Roberts

# ? Oct 7, 2015 23:58

Dusty Lens: Jul 1, 2015; All Glory unto the Stimpire. Give up your arms and legs and embrace the beautiful agony of electricity that doubles in pain every second.

Are we gonna get back into movies other Chris?
We sure are other Chris. We sure are.

# ? Oct 8, 2015 00:01

Agrajag: Jan 21, 2006; gat dang thats hot

Unfunny Poster posted:

Most of the time there are precautions taken to secure the investment whenever someone wants to get an "executive producer" credit on a flick.

what does this mean

# ? Oct 8, 2015 00:02

Pity Party Animal: Jul 23, 2006

Space games were having trouble
What a sad, sad story
Needed a new leader
To restore its former glory
Where, oh where was he?
Where could that man be?
We looked around
And then we found
The man for you and me
And now it's

Springtime for Croberts and Star Citizen
Lesnick is happy and gay
We're marching into open flame
Look out
Here comes the greatest game

Springtime for Croberts and Star Citizen
Winter for D Smart and goons
Springtime for Croberts and Star Citizen
Come on, citizens
Go into your dance

I was born in Dickseldorf
And that is why they call me Wulf
Don't be stupid, be a smarty
Come and join Crobert's party

Springtime for Croberts and Star Citizen
Goosestep's the new step today
Bombs falling from ex-staff again
Star Citizen is on the rise again

Springtime for Croberts and Star Citizen
Javelins are sailing once more

Springtime for Croberts and Star Citizen
Means that soon we'll be going
We've got to be going
You know we'll be going to flame war

# ? Oct 8, 2015 00:03

revmoo: May 25, 2006; #basta

Lol. This was comedy gold when we had a goon in for 2.5g. Now we have a wale in for ?25million?

# ? Oct 8, 2015 00:04

MrAptronym: Jan 4, 2007; "...And then there was Bitcoin."

revmoo posted:

Lol. This was comedy gold when we had a goon in for 2.5g. Now we have a wale in for ?25million?

No, he is claiming to be a VC and telling us many other VCs were bought out when the project reached 25 mil in total funding.

# ? Oct 8, 2015 00:06

Agrajag: Jan 21, 2006; gat dang thats hot

revmoo posted:

Lol. This was comedy gold when we had a goon in for 2.5g. Now we have a wale in for ?25million?

you should try reading it again

# ? Oct 8, 2015 00:06

thatguy: Feb 5, 2003

revmoo posted:

Lol. This was comedy gold when we had a goon in for 2.5g. Now we have a wale in for ?25million?

I too can pull numbers out of my rear end.

43,209

# ? Oct 8, 2015 00:07

G0RF: Mar 19, 2015; Some galactic defender you are, Space Cadet.

MrAptronym posted:

No, he is claiming to be a VC and telling us many other VCs were bought out when the project reached 25 mil in total funding.

VC? I think he's just a private investor who had an inside line on an early private placement. (Please correct if wrong Bootcha.)

# ? Oct 8, 2015 00:10

it dont matter: Aug 29, 2008

So this Twin Bros thing. Bit loving shady isn't it? Why have they got them handling the money, what could be the benefit? Tax thing?

Unfunny Poster posted:

It takes a lot to get blacklisted by SAG from my experience.

This is true, I had to do a pink pancake at the Christmas party before they gave me the boot.

# ? Oct 8, 2015 00:10

robot roll call: Mar 7, 2006; dance dance dance dance dance to the radio

I had no idea Chris Roberts catastrophically mismanaged so much poo poo over the years...but this time it's gonna be different!

# ? Oct 8, 2015 00:12

Mekchu: Apr 10, 2012; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Agrajag posted:

what does this mean

Basically in film production you get a few different types of producers.

Most people you see in a film listed as "Executive Producer" just means their involvement included throwing money at the film/tv show/project and that's about it. There are of course some Executive Producers that stick around to do work on the film specifically, but not all of them. Think of it as a vanity title in some ways.

Because its an investment, they and the studio making the film take steps to ensure that the financers (aka Executive Producers) get some sort of returns our way out if they want. What specifically can change depending on the project.

So essentially Iron Tusk is right, most of the time the producers at the very top who put money in take steps to ensure their money isn't lost.

The other producer roles listed in the credits are actual jobs that people do to make sure the ship stays on course and nothing delays the film unnecessarily.

I don't have any experience with game development, but I imagine there's a similar situation with the role of the Executive Producers being a main money source in some manner.

robot roll call posted:

I had no idea Chris Roberts catastrophically mismanaged so much poo poo over the years...but this time it's gonna be different!

It's been a gimmick of his since that one game that Microsoft had to force him out of.

Mekchu fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Oct 8, 2015

# ? Oct 8, 2015 00:12

OhDearGodNo: Jan 3, 2014

# ? Oct 8, 2015 00:16

Oscar Wilde Bunch: Jun 12, 2012; Grimey Drawer

alphabettitouretti posted:

So this Twin Bros thing. Bit loving shady isn't it? Why have they got them handling the money, what could be the benefit? Tax thing?

This is true, I had to do a pink pancake at the Christmas party before they gave me the boot.

You answered your own question.

It's also a hedge against exchange rates, it's like multi-national 101.

# ? Oct 8, 2015 00:18

Meta-Mollusk: May 2, 2013; by FactsAreUseless; Grimey Drawer

G0RF posted:

If Derek Smart is really going to do a Youtube/Twitch TownHall type conference about Star Citizen's woes, I really hope Beer will join in.

EDIT TO ADD: If he does it Saturday during Citcon, offering runtime commentary on Twitch, it would be bloody hilarious. I would honestly pay money to watch that.

Make this happen, Derek.

# ? Oct 8, 2015 00:20

Jst0rm: Sep 16, 2012; Grimey Drawer

Unfunny Poster posted:

Basically in film production you get a few different types of producers.

Most people you see in a film listed as "Executive Producer" just means their involvement included throwing money at the film/tv show/project and that's about it. There are of course some Executive Producers that stick around to do work on the film specifically, but not all of them. Think of it as a vanity title in some ways.

Because its an investment, they and the studio making the film take steps to ensure that the financers (aka Executive Producers) get some sort of returns our way out if they want. What specifically can change depending on the project.

So essentially Iron Tusk is right, most of the time the producers at the very top who put money in take steps to ensure their money isn't lost.

The other producer roles listed in the credits are actual jobs that people do to make sure the ship stays on course and nothing delays the film unnecessarily.

I don't have any experience with game development, but I imagine there's a similar situation with the role of the Executive Producers being a main money source in some manner.

It's been a gimmick of his since that one game that Microsoft had to force him out of.

executive producers can and do lose money. If there was no risk of losses then everyone would be trying to make a juno or whatever. (I wish this was true. I would be rich)

# ? Oct 8, 2015 00:23

BogDew: Jun 14, 2006; E:\FILES>quickfli clown.fli

Lu Yan posted:

Budget: $47 million
Box office: $7,033,68

Ortwin Freyermuth was involved with Croberts at Ascendant too.
edit: Apparently he's a CIG co-founder. Welp I feel dumb

Remember around that time Germany had a financial loophole where someone could invest in your film, but only can declare tax if the film made any returns - so a box office bomb, while generating some profits, would get written off as a 100% tax deductible investment.

Uwe Boll infamously exploited this. But the loophole closed around 2007 or so.
An EP in a film production is someone who puts their own cash to net returns from the production, even if it goes under. In some cases you'll see actors EP their own films or even on TV series, such as Matthew Mcconaughey being an EP for the second series of True Detective it's a way of investment and productions getting a big name into the press kits without having said name need to do anything.

However you can't win on everything, a box office bomb won't net you much back.

I don't know enough about UK/US/EU tax shelters that are currently in existence but I suspect Ortwin may just be a canny operator when it comes to keeping CIG fiscally afloat via reducing as many fees or charges as possible, helped by bouncing things internationally.

It's clear-ish that CIG had at least some funds from the Roberts brother's pst ventures to bankroll initial production and Ortwin may have had added some capital to the mix - the $500,000 was sort of a litmus test - they didn't expect more than six million to suddenly roll in, let alone tens of millions.

Unless there's something else very sneaky going on and that $90 million isn't 800 thousand backers but one clever way to channel cash into a black hole from other assets in a way that it can be written off should it go under.

# ? Oct 8, 2015 00:24

Mekchu: Apr 10, 2012; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS

Jst0rm posted:

executive producers can and do lose money. If there was no risk of losses then everyone would be trying to make a juno or whatever. (I wish this was true. I would be rich)

True, I was speaking in a very broad and general manner.

# ? Oct 8, 2015 00:27

tooterfish: Jul 13, 2013

OhDearGodNo posted:

Feeling vindicated? :smug:

# ? Oct 8, 2015 00:27

Young Freud: Nov 26, 2006

It's important to remember, in the midst of all that Costner drama, C-Rob tried to suing his agency, Creative Artist Agency for fraud and misrepresentation.

quote:

Last April, Ascendant Pictures filed a cross-complaint against Creative Artists Agency, the talent agency that had represented Costner since 1996 and that was working to close the deal in negotiations with the production company.

Ascendant alleged fraud and negligent misrepresentation and maintained CAA reneged on an agreement to try to persuade Costner to take less than the $8 million he was demanding if financing for the picture fell short of expectations.

CAA knew that many potential lead actresses and directors for the film already turned down any involvement in the project, because they did not like the screenplay or because of Costner's attachment to the movie, according to the cross-complaint.

The rejections hurt the effort to attract financing, the cross-complaint stated.

http://www.dailynews.com/general-news/20080305/kevin-costner-settles-over-failed-film

This probably did more harm than the Costner suit, because CAA is essentially Hollywood. There's a saying in Hollywood that "there's CAA and then there's the rest". CAA is the talent agency for the top performers in show business and even sports.

# ? Oct 8, 2015 00:28

Full Metal Boxers: Feb 20, 2007; COME LITTLE BITCOIN.... COME MY WAY.....IN THE MID NIGHT HOUR... I YELL NO NO NO... WITH A REBEL YELL I YELL MORE MORE MORE.... BIT COIN... I WANT TO FUCK YOU

MoraleHazard posted:

I genuinely feel sorry for the people who dropped $10,000 on this ~~game~~, emptying out 401k's, using student loans for it, etc.

I was excited about this when it was first announced, too, but I still don't feel sorry for anyone who would spend $10k on a video game and neither should you.

# ? Oct 8, 2015 00:28

Shala: Oct 15, 2006; i shot the pilot; Lipstick Apathy

PITT posted:

Bust a deal face the wheel.

# ? Oct 8, 2015 00:29

Beluga Snail: Jul 26, 2013

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/3nn3g5/drama_megathread/cvrtcau

Some Totally Random Redditor posted:

If you have to watch out from anyone, it's that Peter Gabriel guy over there, last I heard he was staging an uprising in Goonrathi, total nutcase if you ask me...

Samsung supremacy!

Take my money pgabs.

# ? Oct 8, 2015 00:31

Iridium: Apr 4, 2002; Wretched Harp

PITT posted:

Bust a deal face the wheel.

# ? Oct 8, 2015 00:31

lamentable dustman: Apr 13, 2007; ððð

B_of_InfoRedux posted:

I don't know of guys...bootcha is awfully close to gotcha. Just saying.

he has said all this in the past (except the Sandy stuff) and posted pictures from the early days

that said, with preorder ships counting as capital and new sales once the game ships (lol) counting as profit good luck with your investment dude

# ? Oct 8, 2015 00:34