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IC2 reactor meltdowns were annoying because the only way to avoid them was babysit, or design your reactor to not quite get hot enough over a fuel cycle, which required waaaay too much out-of-game sperging over the reactor sim applet. If you hosed up your calculations then everything would look fine until you log back in to find a crater where your power generation used to be. Big Reactors are easy enough to monitor and actively control with ComputerCraft that I'd be happy with ramping "radiation" effects (nausea, then damage over time) near an overloaded reactor, possibly with fuel rods "melting" to lava. I like the idea of loving up my reactor control software and having to quickly run in, manually shut down my reactor and then retreat before the radiation kills me, then wait a few minutes for it to stop emitting so I can go back in and fix it. And next time build in a failsafe switch to turn it off.
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Oct 15, 2015 16:05
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Bhodi posted:Reminder to those who want to emit status effects, look to the sludge boiler - it poisons everything around, and it's dumb no one likes it and it doesn't fit the pack at all. I actually like it, only because it encourages oddball "out of the way" placement with respective pipes. But as you put it so well... Bhodi posted:Yeah sure, if you want to have a config file option "SLAM_HAND_IN_CARDOOR=true" have at it, it just better be false by default. This should always be a thing.
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Oct 15, 2015 16:06
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I mean, you could also just have to repair circuit boards at an RF cost. They don't HAVE to burn out. I'm just saying that if some people want REAL CONSEQUENCES for misusing power, there are options that aren't a steaming crater that smells of ozone where your base used to be. e: vvvvvv Yeah, sludge/sewage lakes are enabled by default in MFR. Fortis fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Oct 15, 2015 |
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Oct 15, 2015 16:06
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Oh speaking of sludge, was shitlakes = true a default config setting? It annoyed the gently caress out of me in every modpack that had it set.
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Oct 15, 2015 16:08
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Bhodi posted:Reminder to those who want to emit status effects, look to the sludge boiler - it poisons everything around, and it's dumb no one likes it and it doesn't fit the pack at all. eh, I don't mind the sludge boiler. It's just a 5x5x5 cube I need to ignore for the rest of time, and I get free soul sand and junk for my troubles. If you must destroy something because someone didn't realize that the cable that works for machine A is too much for machine B (you really don't, but for the sake of conversation) make the *cable* break. have a sound effect play and some sparks come out, and if the player doesn't remove it in, say, 10 seconds the cable plugged into the machine breaks. From a realism point of view that doesn't make sense, but my mining regimen now is running in a straight line as rock melts in a 12x12 tunnel in front of me, with anything valuable being funneled instantly into my magical mirror so that it can be converted into energy 2 kilometers back. I don't really play minecraft for the realism.
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Oct 15, 2015 16:09
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senae posted:eh, I don't mind the sludge boiler. It's just a 5x5x5 cube I need to ignore for the rest of time, and I get free soul sand and junk for my troubles. It's a mechanic that's only in a single block and nowhere else in the mod, that you don't know about until you turn it on AND feed it sludge, it has weird interactions with other mods (extremely deadly with pam's harvestcraft or other health-centric mods) and is a tripwire for inexperienced players whereas veterans just easily bypass it by building it underground. So many of these suggested mechanics are just tripwires for the inexperienced, where it should be the exact opposite. That's why it's a bad mechanic. Bhodi fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Oct 15, 2015 |
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Oct 15, 2015 16:12
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senae posted:If you must destroy something because someone didn't realize that the cable that works for machine A is too much for machine B (you really don't, but for the sake of conversation) make the *cable* break. have a sound effect play and some sparks come out, and if the player doesn't remove it in, say, 10 seconds the cable plugged into the machine breaks. Why settle for this when you can make the machine in question output a series of energy packets specifically designed to propagate as far and damage as many other connected machines as possible, causing them to explode and also emit energy cascades? Surely that's more fun right? If players can make mistakes without consequences how will they ever learn to do things the correct way? Edit: the player must be punished
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Oct 15, 2015 16:14
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Demiurge4 posted:With realistic power the easy way to do it is to just trip the circuit breaker. If you're dumb and just use one, then one tripped breaker shuts down your entire factory. Redundancies are already accounted for in real life. Every machine usually has breaker is grouped together with a few others on an RCD to protect the rest of the network. If you gently caress up your automation goes. This sounds like a really good concept actually. Most people understand the idea of "poo poo I jus blew a fuse/my power strip flipped off because of a storm and took my computer with it". As someone said upthread, using things that people understand intuitively makes for good mechanics.
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Oct 15, 2015 16:15
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Bhodi posted:Exactly. It's not that it's got wierd interactions with other mods, it's that other mods change a vanilla mechanic to be bullshit (and you're thinking of hunger overhaul, not pams). The way it's designed it's a speedbump at worst if you're completely unaware that it's there. The one thing regarding sludge I would change, though, is to make harvesters have some sort of warning when they're clogged, so people know they need to do something with it.
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Oct 15, 2015 16:17
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Bhodi posted:You also better have a miracle potato for in-game debugging purposes that tells you what thing is messing up your entire system. It's called a multi-meter. The interesting thing to design there would be how to accurately simulate how you find a fault on the network with the tool without it magically telling you exactly where. The biggest annoyance through regular use of a realistic power system would be managing the absolute mess of power lines and breakers in a large setup. As well as managing AMPs across multiple breakers because that would be the challenge there. Two machines pulling 2 amps is fine on a 6 amp breaker but go above it and you need a new power line and a new breaker. Do you have four 6 amps on an 18 amp master breaker? gently caress you, tripped. This is what a factory breaker box I built last month looks like.  Most people wouldn't find it fun which is why I'm leaning towards challenge/puzzle maps.
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Oct 15, 2015 16:21
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Yeah, i meant hunger overhaul, sorry. But the line between "This other mod is bullshit" and "Speedbump" varies depending on what modpack it's in, and what the focus of that pack is. If it's just a speedbump, why even have it, it's just completely out of place. Have it make an annoying noise or something non-impactful. Mod mechanics should be conservative, mechanics should affect the blocks of their mod only, otherwise you get unintended interactions that other mod authors have to deal with and consider. It's even worse that it's a one-off mechanic that isn't used anywhere else. It's not the end of the world in either case, but it's a rough patch that you should look at and go "Why is this mechanic in here? What enjoyment or challenge does it bring?" and if the answer is "Aggravating" for a newbie and "Pointless" for a veteran, it probably doesn't belong. Bhodi fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Oct 15, 2015 |
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Oct 15, 2015 16:23
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I like the idea of loving up giving consequences if it's limited to "overclocking" scenarios. The idea of ramping up the power and efficiency of a certain kind of generator at the cost of needing extra containment / stabilization would be cool. Also, there's the possibility of the adverse consequences being something you can turn to your advantage: maybe overloading your reactor sets off a resonance cascade, shutting it down and spawning a tough mob. Witchery Ents seem like a good model to work from. People in this thread seem to like them.
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Oct 15, 2015 16:27
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senae posted:The one thing regarding sludge I would change, though, is to make harvesters have some sort of warning when they're clogged, so people know they need to do something with it. Have the block show leaking sludge on its faces and bam, you have an idea what's going on. Sludge boiler I didn't bother with in Blightfall because of the metal shortage and just routed the liquid sludge into a nullifier instead. EDIT: Botania does a decent job with the idea of consequences on the active flowers. Particularly the gourmayliss, the one that eats food and takes a different amount of time for the number of ham haunches the food provides. You can be inefficient and just keep dropping food in while it's processing or you can do a bit of timing and drop a food piece shortly after it's finished. Sage Grimm fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Oct 15, 2015 |
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Oct 15, 2015 16:30
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Nolanar posted:I like the idea of loving up giving consequences if it's limited to "overclocking" scenarios. The idea of ramping up the power and efficiency of a certain kind of generator at the cost of needing extra containment / stabilization would be cool. Also, there's the possibility of the adverse consequences being something you can turn to your advantage: maybe overloading your reactor sets off a resonance cascade, shutting it down and spawning a tough mob. Witchery Ents seem like a good model to work from. People in this thread seem to like them. It's actually quite easy and goes back to how you teach ohms law. If you want to upgrade your machine it pulls more amps. More amps means a bigger power cable. You wouldn't run 60 amps through a regular 1.5q wire that is used in most house installations, for example, it would overheat.
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Oct 15, 2015 16:32
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I was just talking generally, not about your Ohm's Law idea specifically.
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Oct 15, 2015 16:34
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This little exchange about Big Reactors is probably relevant to the conversation Immersive Engineering has low, high and extreme voltages, but it's essentially the same as the Thermal Expansion energy pipes with different maximum rates and transformers required to connect the different ones and no machines with pseudo-voltage requirements yet. I feel a vague abstraction of the concept works out fine, and I'll even admit I liked the idea of Industrialcraft having such a system. Running huge power lines between buildings, transform it down into local low voltage slots for machines felt right, and piping high voltage cables directly into hungry machines looked right. Then you introduce absurd power loss, the option to have uninsulated cables that absolutely nobody used, machines exploding if the voltage was off, transformers that made it difficult to tell where the inputs/outputs were, etc and it was terrible. You can introduce some complexity without making it an absolute pain
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Oct 15, 2015 16:34
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Demiurge4 posted:It's actually quite easy and goes back to how you teach ohms law. If you want to upgrade your machine it pulls more amps. More amps means a bigger power cable. You wouldn't run 60 amps through a regular 1.5q wire that is used in most house installations, for example, it would overheat. Mousing over a cable and having it read (6 / 12 Amps) and mousing over a bigger cable (6 / 24 Amps) is very easy to grasp, but doesn't bring voltage into play and doesn't tell you anything about ohm's law. Making one "low" voltage and one "high" voltage (to be abstracted as energy loss for low voltage) also doesn't really teach you about ohm's law because it's just a second mechanic which simply means "higher for distance transmission to substations and then lowered to LV to machines. I guess you could have some sort of voltage slider managed by transformers, but again you're trying to wedge mechanics into a game not really suited for what you're trying to do. Doubly so if you try and introduce a million different gauge wires and when the 'good enough' solution of throwing the biggest wire you can at the problem will solve the challenge.
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Oct 15, 2015 16:47
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Using circuit breakers (or easy to make fuses, you could do like redstone - copper nugger - redstone for a fuse) to handle voltage or current overloads is pretty cool. I think a power system vaguely based on Ohm's law would be nifty. Dumb it down some, but like baby's first electrical engineering teaching the most barebones basic concepts of voltage and current would be neato
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Oct 15, 2015 16:49
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StealthArcher posted:http://blog.asie.pl/a-tale-of-joules.html The entire point of my long post was that a continuous system like rf and a packet system look identical in a time averaged view. And because of that you can make them function identically with some clever programming. Like literally identically. 500 rf every 50s (10rf/t) is the same as a straight 10rf/t. Anything you can do with one you can do with the other. You don't need to actually implement literal packets to have the same functionality as packets. I tried to use explicit examples in the previous post that were like old buildcraft before rf. I get that he can't implement them like old bc implemented them, but that's probably a good thing given bc's performance issues. They could still be implemented differently and achieve the same result. I also agree that not everything has to be rf. I actually would enjoy a power system that takes more planning. Current modded mc is approaching project E tiers of boredom. The only cool thing is AE2 channels, but even those are kinda pointless because there's very little to do once you are post scarcity. Khorne fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Oct 15, 2015 |
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Oct 15, 2015 16:56
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Bhodi posted:Several "levels" of cables is perfectly fine. But that's what we already have with both RF and AE2, just in AE2 you can't hook things directly up to the larger cables. Machines also accept power from any sides (with a few dumb inconsistent exceptions). You're right there's no obvious way to shoehorn in stuff like amps to cable size relations without the player just building the biggest cable he can. I could make the big ones ugly or perhaps try to make them unsuitable for transmitting 230V necessitating a transformer and at least some lower level cables. Maybe even lock cable sizes behind breakers so you can't put a 15q cable into a 6 amp breaker. Another way would be to make the big transmission line a 2x2 multiblock but I was thinking about making cable "blocks" that you can interact with and place other cables into. So one block might have 5 cables running through it that can branch up or down in the next block. This would also encourage efficient cable sizes since a block would have a maximum.
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Oct 15, 2015 17:04
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there's basically two problems with more involved power: 1. it encourages you to look at a wiki before doing anything instead of experimenting and looking things up when you're trying to do something really complex 2. it makes upgrading your infrastructure a huge pain in the rear end
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Oct 15, 2015 17:34
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Thanks for the recommendation of baby's first space race, thread; I was always terrified of the technical aspects of modpacks, and this is helping a lot!
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Oct 15, 2015 17:36
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The first can be handled by better in-game documentation and feedback. WAILA and NEI showing a lot more information has made basic interaction with blocks a whole lot better. It's also sort of why HQM quest modpacks have taken off as well as they did; they tended towards tutorializing how to use the mod blocks and giving immediate feedback in the form of quest rewards.
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Oct 15, 2015 17:40
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I think I've about finished the Moon Grind portion of Galactic Science. I've got a tier 2 rocket, a launch pad, and a whole lot of ambitions. I'm about to go to mars to try to find this Desh stuff NEI says I need for everything. What sort of stuff should I bring with me? Current plans include: Diamond Pickaxe (how hard is Desh to mine?) Weapons Armor Spare parachute? (Are parachutes consumed upon landing?) Fuel and a Fuel Loader in case I need to leave A launching pad in case I need to leave A full capacitor bank for power Oxygen storage / loader / canisters Building blocks to build a safety bunker Food / dirt / hoe / 2 ice blocks for water Also I've literally never made a space journey before; will I always land in the same place, or can I build my base away from the default landing zone and choose to land there on future trips?
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Oct 15, 2015 17:56
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I'm gonna be the odd man out and say I like the idea of this otherwise obviously magical redstone stuff also making energy transmission/distribution/balancing Easy. Same with Ender Pearls coming from magical creatures that can teleport and having magical powers as materials related to stuff teleporting or being transmitted long distances effectively.
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Oct 15, 2015 18:00
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Sage Grimm posted:The first can be handled by better in-game documentation and feedback. WAILA and NEI showing a lot more information has made basic interaction with blocks a whole lot better. It's also sort of why HQM quest modpacks have taken off as well as they did; they tended towards tutorializing how to use the mod blocks and giving immediate feedback in the form of quest rewards. Yeah, I agree with this. Fishing everything up from a wiki, or god forbid, a youtube video, is the worst, and it's hard to tell what everything does a lot of the time if you don't already have a lot of experience with each individual mod.
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Oct 15, 2015 18:52
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I actually really like wiki trawling - when a wiki is complete. When I have to juggle info sources things become a headache. It's really frustrating that not only does Blood Magic require I play without peaceful mode on to get what it's doing, but it has a billion systems that take lots of precisely arranged elements and there is no good complete wiki on all of them. I like the idea of generators exploding but for a general survival game. Not for minecraft, where things take time to arrange just so, time to craft, and has despawning items on the ground you have to scramble to grab when something goes wrong. Some new game DESIGNED around managing a generator and the units it powers and stuff might be interesting, but it would be very different from minecraft. See: Don't Starve. Has lots of base destruction elements but items on the ground never despawn and there are not automated production lines of stations handing items to other stations to arrange, everything is just a unit on the ground.
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Oct 15, 2015 19:17
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Acne Rain posted:I actually really like wiki trawling - when a wiki is complete. Oh, yeah, it's not all that annoying as long as you don't have to keep watching youtube tutorials to understand everything. Those are the worst.
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Oct 15, 2015 19:21
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Almost finished with Galactic Science. The new choke point is now Nether Stars. More specifically, Copernicium. On the plus side, playing around with Fission and Fusion finally gave me a use for my Oxygen surplus. That and Silicon now help supply my Titanium habit. Apparently, for Copernicium , I should be trying to identify a good Zinc source. Haven't found one yet.
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Oct 15, 2015 23:43
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EricFate posted:That and Silicon now help supply my Tiberium habit. Someone needs to make a tiberium mod for that, considering tiberium basically contains everything you need, except you need a huge refinery system to break down, separate, and process everything.
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Oct 16, 2015 00:16
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SugarAddict posted:Someone needs to make a tiberium mod for that, considering tiberium basically contains everything you need, except you need a huge refinery system to break down, separate, and process everything. And which is also a horrible plague that eats the world? 
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Oct 16, 2015 00:18
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President Ark posted:And which is also a horrible plague that eats the world? Taint would be really cool if it also grew useful stuff instead of rendering everything down to nothing.
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Oct 16, 2015 00:23
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You could deliberately toss passive mobs into taint land and reap their blobs and vines.
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Oct 16, 2015 00:28
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Sage Grimm posted:You could deliberately toss passive mobs into taint land and reap their blobs and vines. I was thinking more along the lines of mutated plantlife and other things. One of the submods lets you create tainted saplings, but the droprate on new saplings feels around the same as silverwoods so you can't easily reproduce them, which annoys me because I'd love to create tainted forests.
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Oct 16, 2015 00:32
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Can oak trees wreck fluxducts? I have two tree farms on top of each other, with a column of fluxduct between them. At different points, I've checked in on them and found a part of the column knocked out. I never really saw this before, but I don't think I've ever had this column of fluxducts so close to trees like that either.
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Oct 16, 2015 00:41
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I just built my first arc light. Pity none of the quest lines touched on them at all, I can already tell that I'm going to be making several dozen in order to retroactively eliminate the torch spam around my bases.
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Oct 16, 2015 02:35
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Curious about something, for other people who are watching Blast Off! on Yogscast Duncan's channel... is that modpack REALLY that amazingly bullshit or are they missing something fundamental? Because goddamn that galgador stuff looks awful.
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Oct 16, 2015 02:36
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Ciaphas posted:Curious about something, for other people who are watching Blast Off! on Yogscast Duncan's channel... is that modpack REALLY that amazingly bullshit or are they missing something fundamental? Because goddamn that galgador stuff looks awful. It is that bullshit, but they also gimped themselves by not regenning the map when they updated. A lot of the stuff that was crippling them (eye of galgador and a couple others) are dungeon loot that are fairly easy to get but require exploration to find. At least that's how it was last I played, but it may have gotten even more bullshit since then.
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Oct 16, 2015 02:48
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:Can oak trees wreck fluxducts? I have two tree farms on top of each other, with a column of fluxduct between them. At different points, I've checked in on them and found a part of the column knocked out. I never really saw this before, but I don't think I've ever had this column of fluxducts so close to trees like that either. That's happened to me to and it's not rare. I've seen it happen tons of times with it eating my IC2 cabling and my buildcraft pipes. I don't know what causes it though.
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Oct 16, 2015 03:17
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I've been playing Refuge and boy does it seem dumb as hell. The creator seems to really hate alloys for some reason, so most of them are restricted to seeds instead of being able to make them via dusts. Except... you can just make them via the smeltery? Not aluminum brass or bronze, though. If you try to make those via the smeltery you get NOTHING. The molten metal just vanishes, because setting the result to 0 ingots in the config doesn't disable the recipe it just voids out the result. This was done to aluminum brass to force you to use gold for casts... except I don't see any way to even get aluminum, as the seeds require aluminum and there's no ore in the world. I have no idea why he did the same thing for bronze. So basically I've been doing nothing but crossbreed seeds for the past two days of work on the pack and it's really really boring. Is there anything more to Refuge past the seed crossbreeding bullshit? I could make a meteor shield right now, since there was a mystery meteor landing nearby and the recipe wasn't changed. Yet... there seem to be no meteor landings? I haven't heard any explosions and notifications are turned off entirely. What is the endgame, if not that?
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Oct 16, 2015 03:28
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