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Flytrap posted:I'd call the shortcuts a good design point myself. If I have to choose between immersion the breaking shortcuts to save time or the immersion breaking boredom of walking backwards through something I just finished, I'll take the former every single time. It might've been cooler if there were more varied types of shortcuts. It would've kind of masked the whole "every dungeon is designed the same way" thing. Or, hell, just throw scrolls of "exit" around or something that let you warp back to the entrance of a dungeon. Then you don't even need to worry about always making sure to have a physical shortcut back. Make sure there's always one available to find towards the end of any given dungeon.
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Oct 16, 2015 20:10
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Mr. Fortitude posted:It's kind of janky but just kicking everything into spikes or death pits or pretty much anything you can think of is a lot of fun. It goes on sale frequently on Steam so you can pick up Dark Messiah of Might & Magic then. Yeah, it's pretty good though the middle stretch on that island goes on way too drat long and is kind of lovely. It's nice that you can join the bad guy if you really want to as well.
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Oct 16, 2015 20:10
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kikkelivelho posted:The new Shadow warrior also had good if somewhat limited melee combat system. Any combat system where you can do footsies or dance around your opponent is great. Dude the melee loving owns, I played the entire game just with the sword. Aside from having to use a gun on certain fights and flying bad guys. That game is loving bad rear end. The last boss fights are like an hour each. Play it if you like serious sam its kinda a mix of shadow warrior(aka Dude Nukem 3d(not the new one) with an Asian) and serious sam.
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Oct 16, 2015 20:11
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Flytrap posted:I'd call the shortcuts a good design point myself. If I have to choose between immersion the breaking shortcuts to save time or the immersion breaking boredom of walking backwards through something I just finished, I'll take the former every single time. I'd prefer if they had shortcuts to different parts of the dungeon and you use Mark & Recall if you want to warp out. You know, like how Morrowind did it.
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Oct 16, 2015 20:12
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Mr. Fortitude posted:I'd prefer if they had shortcuts to different parts of the dungeon and you use Mark & Recall if you want to warp out. You know, like how Morrowind did it. Yeah, they could've sort of sprinkled shortcuts around the dungeon so that you don't always need to have a single shortcut that leads you outside from the end. Instead, you could unlock shortcuts as you go that, together, add up to a quick trip back (or an easy way back inside, if you want to leave for some reason before you get to the end). Y'know, sort of like how Demon's/Dark Souls and Bloodborne areas are designed 
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Oct 16, 2015 20:15
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GOTY 2016. It looks like Bloodborne to some people but it is Dark Souls, plays Dark Souls, feels Dark Souls.
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Oct 16, 2015 20:15
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Mr. Fortitude posted:I'd prefer if they had shortcuts to different parts of the dungeon and you use Mark & Recall if you want to warp out. You know, like how Morrowind did it. Sadly--much like flying--teleporting is likely gone for good. Not really sure WHY though. I get the flying I guess, it would break the boundaries set now that towns are in their own zones if you just flew over the wall, but what the heck did teleporting break? Quest scripting? I guess since Morrowind was straight up willing to let you make the main quest unwinnable they weren't so concerned with that.
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Oct 16, 2015 20:16
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Beat the network test boss, feels good man 
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Oct 16, 2015 20:25
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Taratang posted:Beat the network test boss, feels good man Like a skinnier more 180/360 degree attacky Vicar Amelia that never rests, a properly thrilling fight as melee
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Oct 16, 2015 20:30
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Harrow posted:Yeah, they could've sort of sprinkled shortcuts around the dungeon so that you don't always need to have a single shortcut that leads you outside from the end. Instead, you could unlock shortcuts as you go that, together, add up to a quick trip back (or an easy way back inside, if you want to leave for some reason before you get to the end). Y'know, sort of like how Demon's/Dark Souls and Bloodborne areas are designed Yeah but that requires good level design which is something Bethesda will probably never be good at. Flytrap posted:Sadly--much like flying--teleporting is likely gone for good. Not really sure WHY though. I get the flying I guess, it would break the boundaries set now that towns are in their own zones if you just flew over the wall, but what the heck did teleporting break? Quest scripting? I guess since Morrowind was straight up willing to let you make the main quest unwinnable they weren't so concerned with that. I don't think teleporting broke anything, their excuse is that you can fast travel which replaces teleportation. What Bethesda don't realize is that you can't fast travel out of dungeons and being unable to do so will either cause lots of backtracking, or make dungeons basically a long corridor that wraps around itself.
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Oct 16, 2015 20:30
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Flytrap posted:Sadly--much like flying--teleporting is likely gone for good. Not really sure WHY though. I get the flying I guess, it would break the boundaries set now that towns are in their own zones if you just flew over the wall, but what the heck did teleporting break? Quest scripting? I guess since Morrowind was straight up willing to let you make the main quest unwinnable they weren't so concerned with that. It had to do with changes to how the game loads data iirc.
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Oct 16, 2015 20:31
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Mr. Fortitude posted:Yeah but that requires good level design which is something Bethesda will probably never be good at. or quests or general story lines. They make loving boss rear end engines that nothing can compete with.
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Oct 16, 2015 20:37
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MrLonghair posted:Like a skinnier more 180/360 degree attacky Vicar Amelia that never rests, a properly thrilling fight as melee Is there another boss somewhere? I killed the icy dude in the locked cell already (although he's clearly not a boss) and I can't find any other paths. There are a couple of one way doors I still haven't found a way around.
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Oct 16, 2015 20:38
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So is there any reason they aren't just doing the human effigy burning mechanic to let people opt out of invasions again? Cause I always thought that was a good idea. Maybe tie it to a resource that isn't as precious so people feel more inclined to use them. Everything I'm hearing about this network test sounds good but I'm really disappointed with the idea that solo invasions are going to be an opt in thing rather than opt out. Removes a lot of the fun of not knowing if you could be invaded, and also pretty much kills invasions in any area where phantoms aren't summoned frequently for whatever reason.
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Oct 16, 2015 20:47
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A few people say having the ember active is enough to get invaded, so I'm testing that. They've done a great job at adding (invisible) walls and barriers to keep you from loving up and glitching around e: confirmation from elsewhere, failed summons triggered "co-op = TRUE" for long enough for some people to get invaded solo, or invade players solo. Ghosts n Gopniks fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Oct 16, 2015 |
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Oct 16, 2015 21:01
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Has there been word on PC system requirements for this? My computer hates DX11, so if it ends up needing that, I'm stuck on PS4.
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Oct 16, 2015 21:02
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Mazed posted:Has there been word on PC system requirements for this? My computer hates DX11, so if it ends up needing that, I'm stuck on PS4. No word, but it's safe to say you'll be stuck on PS4 unless you upgrade.
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Oct 16, 2015 21:05
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the American stress test is at 11 est right
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Oct 16, 2015 21:08
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Internet Kraken posted:So is there any reason they aren't just doing the human effigy burning mechanic to let people opt out of invasions again? Cause I always thought that was a good idea. Maybe tie it to a resource that isn't as precious so people feel more inclined to use them. Everything I'm hearing about this network test sounds good but I'm really disappointed with the idea that solo invasions are going to be an opt in thing rather than opt out. Removes a lot of the fun of not knowing if you could be invaded, and also pretty much kills invasions in any area where phantoms aren't summoned frequently for whatever reason. Haha did they kill pvp again? ratbros and sunbros weep.
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Oct 16, 2015 21:13
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scary ghost dog posted:the American stress test is at 11 est right Correct.
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Oct 16, 2015 21:17
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Tenzarin posted:Haha did they kill pvp again? ratbros and sunbros weep. They're making it a risk/reward thing, similar to DS1. Using an Ember will give you a 1.4x max HP buff and allow you to summon phantoms, but also open you up for invasions. A +40% HP increase is no joke, and it therefore provides an incentive for less experienced players to use (while also giving them a reasonable advantage against low-level twink or highly skilled invaders). It's technically "opt in," but it's not a straight, "Yes, I want to PVP," vs. "No, I don't want to PVP" deal. Vermain fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Oct 16, 2015 |
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Oct 16, 2015 21:26
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MrLonghair posted:A few people say having the ember active is enough to get invaded, so I'm testing that. They've done a great job at adding (invisible) walls and barriers to keep you from loving up and glitching around I kind of like this. You cry out for help and you're left wondering, "Did help hear me...or something else?"
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Oct 16, 2015 21:29
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Using an item to get a bonus and opening multi-player for coop and invasions is the right choice. They could still do some specific places that are always invasion enabled (like the Door to Pharos/Grave of Saints) and design the area with that idea in mind. What I'd love to see are boss invasions like the Looking Glass Knight fight.
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Oct 16, 2015 21:39
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6 hours and 20 minutes remain 
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Oct 16, 2015 21:41
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15 minutes left in the EU test and it feels like I've done everything but kill the dragon. It definitely has a health bar but would take 100+ firebombs to bring down.
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Oct 16, 2015 21:47
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Taratang posted:using firebombs on a dragon 
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Oct 16, 2015 21:53
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I felt some serious-rear end "done everything" after the first hour compared to the three three-hour Bloodborne sessions. Like a minute and 40 seconds to speedrun to the boss gates on a fresh character tho Speaking of rear end, Dancer of the Frigid Valley? She dooooooooooooooo Ghosts n Gopniks fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Oct 16, 2015 |
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Oct 16, 2015 21:54
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It's not like I have a bow...
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Oct 16, 2015 22:00
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Vermain posted:They're making it a risk/reward thing, similar to DS1. Using an Ember will give you a 1.4x max HP buff and allow you to summon phantoms, but also open you up for invasions. A +40% HP increase is no joke, and it therefore provides an incentive for less experienced players to use (while also giving them a reasonable advantage against low-level twink or highly skilled invaders). It's technically "opt in," but it's not a straight, "Yes, I want to PVP," vs. "No, I don't want to PVP" deal. People are saying you can only be invaded if you have phantoms summoned or are trying to summon them. Solo invasions don't happen even after using an ember unless you also use the dry fingers for whatever reason. If that isn't the case then I would be fine with it.
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Oct 16, 2015 22:08
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Vermain posted:They're making it a risk/reward thing, similar to DS1. Using an Ember will give you a 1.4x max HP buff and allow you to summon phantoms, but also open you up for invasions. A +40% HP increase is no joke, and it therefore provides an incentive for less experienced players to use (while also giving them a reasonable advantage against low-level twink or highly skilled invaders). It's technically "opt in," but it's not a straight, "Yes, I want to PVP," vs. "No, I don't want to PVP" deal. So if I'm reading that right, it sounds like an inverse of soul/body form from Demon's Souls. Instead of giving you your full HP only when you're in body form/open for invasions, you get a bonus for doing that. I like that a lot. It's ultimately the same thing--Demon's Souls was balanced around the idea that you're going to have between 50% and 75% max HP at any given time, so having full HP was more of a bonus than a necessity--but it feels less like punishment if you're not seeing your HP meter chopped in half. Neat. I do hope that you can be invaded after using an Ember whether or not you have phantoms, though. One of Bloodborne's biggest weaknesses was how hard it was to actually be invaded. I think I was only ever invaded in the areas that had bell maidens by default, which was kind of disappointing.
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Oct 16, 2015 22:14
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Flytrap posted:I'd call the shortcuts a good design point myself. If I have to choose between immersion the breaking shortcuts to save time or the immersion breaking boredom of walking backwards through something I just finished, I'll take the former every single time. My favorite part of the shortcuts is the minigame where you guess where you're going to be coming out at the end by looking for the obviously barred door, opening on a ledge, or poorly hidden door.
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Oct 16, 2015 22:15
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Internet Kraken posted:People are saying you can only be invaded if you have phantoms summoned or are trying to summon them. Solo invasions don't happen even after using an ember unless you also use the dry fingers for whatever reason. If that isn't the case then I would be fine with it. Don't the vast majority of summons happen right at the boss gate? You'd summon, get invaded, step through the portal and not give a poo poo?
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Oct 16, 2015 22:15
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Harrow posted:So if I'm reading that right, it sounds like an inverse of soul/body form from Demon's Souls. Instead of giving you your full HP only when you're in body form/open for invasions, you get a bonus for doing that. I like that a lot. It's ultimately the same thing--Demon's Souls was balanced around the idea that you're going to have between 50% and 75% max HP at any given time, so having full HP was more of a bonus than a necessity--but it feels less like punishment if you're not seeing your HP meter chopped in half. I like it too. DS2 often felt like it was balanced around having full health, and being hollow was a major inconvenience, leading to either wearing the ring of binding, scumming with rings of protection, or constantly co-oping... that was a nice way to drive folks to co-op, though.
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Oct 16, 2015 22:16
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sector_corrector posted:I like it too. DS2 often felt like it was balanced around having full health, and being hollow was a major inconvenience, leading to either wearing the ring of binding, scumming with rings of protection, or constantly co-oping... that was a nice way to drive folks to co-op, though. Coop is my favorite part of the game with ratbros and bell bros right below that.
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Oct 16, 2015 22:18
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I'm curious: do people generally prefer Dark Souls rings, which were typically stronger but which you got fewer slots for making them more character defining choices, or Dark Souls 2 rings, which were weaker (especially in their non-plus iterations) but gave you more freedom to experiment by having a whole bunch of slots? I ask bc I'm legitimately not sure which I prefer and I'm curious if anybody has a compelling argument one way or the other
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Oct 16, 2015 22:20
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I feel like two slots was better but Dark Souls 2 had way more rings that were actually worth using. I think 2 slots with DaS2's variety and no "obvious" choices like Havel's/Favor/Third Dragon would make for the best system.
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Oct 16, 2015 22:25
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I absolutely prefer Dark Souls 2 rings. You have a lot more freedom with what you can do. Plus if you have to put on a ring for covenant purposes it doesn't feel like you're wasting a slot as much. I don't like the rings all going up to +2 just because it felt like there was never any reason to not use the +2 variant if you have it, but other than that they were great. I REALLY hope they don't include any rings that are blatantly better than others for basically every build, regardless how many slots you have. The FaP ring in Dark Souls is so good that you pretty much always used it.
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Oct 16, 2015 22:27
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Zombies' Downfall posted:I'm curious: do people generally prefer Dark Souls rings, which were typically stronger but which you got fewer slots for making them more character defining choices, or Dark Souls 2 rings, which were weaker (especially in their non-plus iterations) but gave you more freedom to experiment by having a whole bunch of slots? Dark Souls 2 rings are waaaaay better. In Dark Souls is was basically Havel's or Rofap in one slot and then a situation-specific ring in the second. Especially with the DLC, Dark Souls II got pretty crazy with rings, something I hope Dks3 continues (though I'm not necessarily hopeful, since the Runes in Bloodborne were pretty boring).
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Oct 16, 2015 22:27
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When I said Dark Souls 2 rings were "weaker" I meant the ones that had a direct analogue like Havel's Ring and the Cloranthy Ring were weaker in Dark Souls 2 I totally agree about the variety of rings being a problem in the first game either way
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Oct 16, 2015 22:30
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I prefer the DS2 systems. It allows for more build variety and the 4 slots give you room to equip some of the more gimmicky rings without gimping yourself.
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