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magnificent7 posted:My book has been out for a month, I know I've sold a few copies, nothing astronomical, but there's no reviews on Amazon, no ratings. Do I just have to go out and beg people for reviews initially? I'm not assuming it's THAT good, but i am assuming that it's not so godawful that people aren't reading it at all. Your book is too expensive. Are there ghosts in it, because that's a quarter of your categories. You're not in KDP Select so you can't use Kindle Unlimited or any of those promo opportunities. You've probably sold ten copies so far if I had to guess. You need to probably ten times that many before you can even expect to get reviews in. Did you do any kind of promo? BKnights? Bargainbooksy? Facebook tour? Rafflecopter? Everything Sean said is spot on. You seem to be paying multiple people to sink your book.
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Oct 20, 2015 19:23
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Jalumibnkrayal posted:Everything Sean said is spot on. You seem to be paying multiple people to sink your book.
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Oct 20, 2015 20:53
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Why do you have a book manager? Why did you go through a publishing company who literally copy/pasted what you already had? Book + cover/title/blurb is like 99% of what a book needs to sell. If you're American, the process couldn't be simpler to publish on Amazon. If you're not American but live in a first world country, the process is different but still worth it. This is the self publishing goons thread and, while I'm not saying that traditionally published perspectives aren't valuable, you've just learned a very harsh lesson about publishing. Check your contract carefully and look for an escape. edit: ??? Why did you go with anyone publishing your work, let alone a group that you did no research on? You yourself weren't even notified that your book went on sale for like a week! I am baffled. magnificent7 posted:I've decided to go with self-pubbing this book instead of seeking an agent and a publisher. magnificent7 posted:This - this is what I'm talking about. When you consider the amount of work current publishers expect an author to do, regarding marketing, promoting, etc, what's the point of trad publishing? magnificent7 posted:Doesn't that kind of describe the big six publishers, and publishing in general? "We're going to put some support behind you, and if you make a lot of money, (i.e., enough to cover our expenses for supporting you and a lot of other non-successful people) then we'll cut you in on it." EngineerSean fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Oct 20, 2015 |
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Oct 20, 2015 23:04
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guys do you smell burned toast. i think i smell burned toast.
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Oct 20, 2015 23:11
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They're a hybrid; you missed copy/pasting that quote as well when I was asking about them back in March or April. I opted for them because they'll help push me in the right direction but don't have any control over the contents of the book itself. Sure, I could've totally self-published the thing myself, but Booktrope offers a lot more, I'm just kind of baffled right now on what's my next steps on promoting the book. But thanks for making me feel like poo poo. Now excuse me, I'll go burn some toast for you. Not sure what the means, but I'm sure it's not high praise. edit - I know this reads like a big whiny baby but it's not. I think. magnificent7 fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 02:56
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Can you get the rights back or no? Sorry you feel bad but this is why we all self publish here and letting someone else "push you in the right direction" doesn't work unless they know what the gently caress they're doing. And judging from your $4.99 price point and 500k rank, they don't give two craps about your book or promoting it. Yank it and republish it if you can get the rights back. Hell, you wasted how many of your days before the 30 day cliff NOT KNOWING that your book was out? Come on, dude. That is an awful publisher.
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Oct 21, 2015 04:21
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I'll apologize for my tone (and I don't do that very often) if you'll tell me: a) what was promised to you ("pushing you in the right direction" is pretty hopelessly vague) b) what was actually delivered to you c) if either a) or b) seems reasonable for the percentage of royalties they are taking For instance, here is the webpage for Booktrope's Team Publishing: http://booktrope.com/booktrope-publishing/teams/ If you had a cover artist as part of this who did this cover, that's fine, he earned his cut (though almost nobody pays a percentage of royalties for cover work, they pay a fixed rate) You say that they don't have any control over the contents of the book itself, yet this has an editor as part of the process. Who is getting your editor cut? I know I said that we don't pay a cover artist a percentage but lol that goes double for a proofreader. The best, though, is your book marketing person. quote:We think that successful marketing is key, therefore we strive to ensure that every book has a Book Manager on the team – unlike most publishing houses where nearly all the marketing activities are pushed to the author alone and maybe a publicist (shared between you, 200 other authors and Nora Roberts). Who is your Book Manager, what is their cut, and what have they done for you? And, at the end of the day, how much is BookTrope taking to administer all this?
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Oct 21, 2015 04:21
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magnificent7 posted:I know this reads like a big whiny baby but it's not. I think. Let me tell you why I think you're a big whiny baby. My estimation is that this has sold two copies on Amazon US, and it has verifiably sold zero copies on all other retailers. Let's pretend that I'm off by a factor of ten (I'm not) so you've sold twenty there. Let's pretend that Amazon is only 50% of the market (it's not) so we double that 20 across Smashwords, Barnes&Noble, Apple, and whatever other retailer it's sold through and get 40. Let's pretend that the publisher collects 60% of list for every copy sold. That means that the book has sold 40 copies, for revenue of $200. Your publisher receives $120 of that. They skim their 20% off the top, and give 20% to the author, editor, proofreader, and book manager. Your author cut is $24 for months of blood, sweat, and tears. And it's never going to sell any better than it is right now without promotion. And basically, you got here because you wanted to be coddled, to be walked through the process like a baby. Instead of getting mad at the people that are making your work worthless, you're getting pouty at the people who are pointing that out to you in this thread. You should be getting fired up, offering to buy back your rights from the publisher and threatening legal action if they don't let you. Instead, you're sitting here wailing and lashing out at people trying to help you. I don't have a stake in your stupid loving book and it doesn't help my ego to tear you down, so maybe you should quit crying and act like you want people to read this book.
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Oct 21, 2015 04:34
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We are talking about a company that has this gem on their website:quote:For example, some authors may the Book Manager role themselves So we'll take that as the level of competence you have to expect. You're saying Booktrope offers a lot more than just self-publishing, what exactly do you mean? It sure as hell isn't promotion. Coverartists selling premade covers exist by the dozens. Editors and proofreaders, when they can't even proofread their own website? Long story short, you got scammed.
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Oct 21, 2015 11:46
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magnificent7 posted:Has anybody had experience with booktrope.com? Looks like a great solution for self-pub+ options. (like, you WANNA self publish, but would benefit from people who can help you). OK. Looking at their website, a bunch of stuff becomes clearer. Booktrope aren't a publisher, a vanity press, or (precisely) a scam. They're like a book-oriented version of freelancer.com. You sign up, they help you rope other random member "experts" into a project team, then they skim 30% of the money off the top and divide the rest up amongst the team. Just like freelancer.com, it _could_ work well, if you happen to get really lucky, but in practice, my assumption would be that it would only attract mediocre people who can't get actual paid work in those field. Sadly, royalty percentages are almost never worth working for, if you can possibly avoid it. For ever E.L. James you turn your nose up, there'll be 100,000 one-copy wonders. The trouble with "teams", particularly ones mediated through collaborative websites, is that (a) no-one else really gives a poo poo about your baby (this is the same trouble start-up founders have); and (b) the more people are involved, the higher the chance that one weak link will sink you all. So. As the author, you're getting 33% of 70% of 70% from Amazon eSales. That's 16% of cover. Clearly, the 'book manager' who signed up with you is just some idiot who's hoping to farm a few dollars from doing gently caress all by taking a cut of lots of tiny-performing books. I'm sure the Booktrope contracts have clauses preventing release, because they'd be scared that a book would start doing well and the author would yank it out to keep all the cash themselves. If it's not specifically forbidden by the book contract -- and it probably is -- then personally, I'd put it up free somewhere, tip off the price-match on Amazon, and hope to use it as a marketing tool for a follow-up novel. You _could_ try promotion efforts, but without access to the price, it's going to be a monstrous nightmare. So, if you can't get it out of the contract -- and again, you probably can't -- all you can really do at this point is chalk it up to experience and write something else.
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Oct 21, 2015 12:40
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Okay. After Amazon/B&N take their cut, I get 40% BT gets 30% The book manager gets 30% I knew I was sacrificing a lot to launch my book this way, but the payoff has been worth it. I've got a dozen other plates spinning at once and after a year in this thread asking questions and getting great input, I decided there's no way I had the time/brainpower to launch my first book on my own, not without getting exhausted and just walking away from it once it launched. The book manager has been helping me a lot, up until about a week ago when he took on a whole lot of other projects. I'm trying to hold his feet to the fire right now. He's got a lot of experience self-pubbing his own books, and helped me strategize what to do... he's just been awol for a week or two. They have promotion strategies, and they have fantastic support, but a lot of it is up to me to execute, to educate myself on poo poo like getting amazon reviews. They say do NOT drop your price down to .99 or free until you've got some reviews posted, because people will take a chance on a cheap/free book, but they're more likely to take the one with reviews. And that makes sense. Which is why I popped in here to ask about amazon reviews. magnificent7 fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 17:10
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magnificent7 posted:They have promotion strategies, and they have fantastic support, but a lot of it is up to me to execute, to educate myself on poo poo like getting amazon reviews. They say do NOT drop your price down to .99 or free until you've got some reviews posted, because people will take a chance on a cheap/free book, but they're more likely to take the one with reviews. And that makes sense. Which is why I popped in here to ask about amazon reviews. Somebody has to buy your book before it gets reviewed (unless you buy reviews (don't do this)).
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Oct 21, 2015 17:15
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EngineerSean posted:Somebody has to buy your book before it gets reviewed (unless you buy reviews (don't do this)). I think I'm asking questions now that I already know the answers to. Does it count as an ARC if the book is already out? Will most places see that, and decline the offer?
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Oct 21, 2015 17:19
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I would definitely ask that guy to repost his review to Amazon, yes.
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Oct 21, 2015 17:27
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There's no reason you shouldn't drop your price. You can raise it again at your whim. It's the best tool you have to get readers and reviews.
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Oct 21, 2015 19:20
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Jalumibnkrayal posted:There's no reason you shouldn't drop your price. You can raise it again at your whim. It's the best tool you have to get readers and reviews. He doesn't have control over pricing.
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Oct 21, 2015 20:28
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EngineerSean posted:He doesn't have control over pricing.
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Oct 21, 2015 20:41
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magnificent7 posted:They say do NOT drop your price down to .99 or free until you've got some reviews posted, because people will take a chance on a cheap/free book, but they're more likely to take the one with reviews. I see now that I misinterpreted this, I thought it said that they wouldn't drop it, not that they advised against it. Your options for this book are really very limited, unfortunately. It sounds like your book manager is getting 30% for doing nothing. Today or tomorrow the book is passing the 30-day cliff. After that, you'll be fighting uphill for the rest of the book's life. I don't know any horror promotion sites but you could try and find them. However, I don't think a promotion venue for horror books exists that you could expect to drive 7 sales for every dollar you spend (assuming they require a discount, $0.99 x 35% x your 40% cut). I would have to say that at this point, any promotional efforts you'd take would be -EV and that your best bet is to write another novel and chalk this up to a learning experience. I pretty much think this whole episode deserves to go in the OP. magnificent7 did 99% of the work (assuming that he didn't get editing or cover help from Booktrope) and gave up 70% of his royalties for someone to, not only do nothing, but do nothing in a way that is actively harming his sales. He has continued to defend them ("They have promotion strategies, and they have fantastic support") which I have to chalk up to the first stage of grief over the loss of his book.
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Oct 21, 2015 20:53
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Nothing they did was fantastic, as you only got like 2-3 sales total in the most important month of your book's release. That's not a fault of your writing; it's a fault of your marketing (which you paid to outsourced). The book manager 'going AWOL' for 25% of the crucial first 30 days is awful and not fantastic. You put a lot of work into writing this, and you wasted all that work by handing it over to a borderline scam. Nothing they did seems good. They made a number of really wrong and bad decisions. You seem to think that you can still salvage this somehow, but you squandered the super important first 30 days, so anything you do from this point will be just a shadow of what you could have pulled off by launching correctly from day one. Try to get the rights back or cancel your deal with them if at all possible. When you release your second book, you could put this book on free promo and promote it with some paid stuff (in addition to promoting your new book correctly). You would edit the first book to link to the second book in the back matter, so if people like the free book they can click and buy the second book. That's just an example of what you could still do with this book, and the details and logistics of how you did that would vary, but it's not completely useless assuming you continue writing and learn from your mistakes. Most people can tell you at least ten things they did wrong on their first release, myself included. Also, if you get the rights back, free promo it immediately, and pay for advertising, you could probably at least make SOME money now compared to saving the free promo for later. Free promo periods are one of the best tools for authors just starting out, and it's insane that your 'book manager' wasn't aware of this and chose not to make use of it in the first 30 days. angel opportunity fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 21:14
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magnificent7 posted:The book manager has been helping me a lot, up until about a week ago Please elaborate on what these things are in exhaustive detail.
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Oct 21, 2015 21:23
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I think you guys are assuming a lot here, which isn't helped by my lazy/vague answers to specific questions. I don't feel like I'm being scammed. In my mind, a scam is when you pay for poo poo, and then you do not get poo poo in return. I haven't paid Booktrope a dime. The profits are split, so they're as motivated to move books as any of their members. Conversely, if I'm lazy as poo poo and don't do my part, (research, proper planning, paying more attention to your advice four months earlier), then my lack of sales reflects that. I got in touch with my BM, he contacted some blogs to get reviews, set up a couple of blog takeovers (what the hell is that?) and included me in a KDP promotion in November for the holidays, which includes marketing/publicity from Booktrope for all members taking part in it. They just delivered 25 promotional paperback copies to my door. Half of those are going out to local media for reviews as well as local libraries, since my story takes place around here and I've intended to market the book locally. I'm sorry I've been stupidly vague with my answers. TBH I've been focused on the book design's approval, the blurb, and going all out on social media to raise some interest in the thing. Getting the book launched was all I've been focusing on, to the point that I let a lot of next steps slide off my radar. The book definitely would've been more successful, (especially with Halloween coming up) if I'd done the right things at the right times. The good news is that I've been writing a blog documenting the vast number of things I've done wrong in publishing my book, called Write Wrong. Your input's really helping me with that. I appreciate all your input along my path, from my first questions, through to help with the cover and the blurb, all the way up to these latest idiot questions.
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Oct 21, 2015 21:55
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So you have promos set up AFTER the first 30 days? This whole thing kinda sounds like a big "BM" to me. And I don't mean Book Manager.
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Oct 21, 2015 22:16
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Faded Mars posted:So you have promos set up AFTER the first 30 days? Ha ha that's funny the way you went for the doodoo joke.
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Oct 21, 2015 22:31
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My advice at this point would honestly be to try and pull the thing entirely, re-tool it with a new title/different cover and re-release it down the road. Put a "was originally published as X" note in the blurb, but honestly its unlikely any of the half-dozen or so people who bought your book are going to accidentally buy it twice and feel 'scammed'. That way you get a do-over to try and promote this right. Side-note: I've been looking over your posts - did you make that promotional image, or did the publishing company do it for you? I mean this one: 
Popular Human fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Oct 22, 2015 |
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Oct 22, 2015 00:25
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I did all the artwork on it. That's the previous version of the blurb, before it was retooled here. I'm not going to pull it and start all over. I'm going to continue going forward with this one, while I write my next book and make lots of notes on the better way to do the next one, which will hopefully drive more interest in this one when that one comes out, an idea that's been mentioned here a lot. magnificent7 fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Oct 22, 2015 |
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Oct 22, 2015 01:27
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A teachable moment is what they call this. I'll apologize for my tone even though you didn't answer any of my three questions.
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Oct 22, 2015 01:35
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poo poo, you even made your own promo pics? I was going to be like "well at least they did one thing for you," but drat. edit: I'm seriously not trying to pile on, but if you DO end up going down this road again, I'd definitely recommend looking over the other titles the publishing company has released. I just went through the "recent releases" page on their website, and more than half of the first few rows don't even have a sales ranking on the Kindle store - literally no one bought their books. Some of those were released weeks ago. Popular Human fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Oct 22, 2015 |
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Oct 22, 2015 01:36
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EngineerSean posted:A teachable moment is what they call this.
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Oct 22, 2015 02:05
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magnificent7 posted:Honestly, I don't know the answers, which pretty much proves your point. So why not pull this one and try to start over with it? It could still be salvaged if you do it right. No sense in wasting all the work you put into it, which is what continuing down this path is doing.
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Oct 22, 2015 02:28
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I don't know what your contract looks like but many have an exit clause, even if it costs money.
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Oct 22, 2015 02:42
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Magnificent7 have you ever had a relative who has just thrown away a bunch of money on magic crystals or homeopathy or a pyramid scheme and when you try to explain this to them they get super defensive? That's because they have two options, which are: A) reevaluate from scratch, realise that they were stupid and that their money is gone forever; B) reject your advice as ill-informed and potentially malevolent, refuse to believe that their money has disappeared and that they were taken advantage of, and double down in their beliefs to prove that they are right. You are too close to this thing, take a step back and de-personalise the situation. Right now you aren't looking for advice as you are still refusing to believe that the people you are asking for advice are right about the situation. So why are you here, except to defend yourself? In which case you have those two above options.
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Oct 22, 2015 06:32
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magnificent7 posted:I did all the artwork on it. That's the previous version of the blurb, before it was retooled here. I don't know why you're building the publishing process up to be this massively difficult thing. What are you so worried about? It's piss easy to upload the book to Amazon, write a blurb, and enroll it in KU (enroll it for 1 term at least IMO). Then Google some promotional sites, set up a Facebook ad, and book some promo! The whole thing will only take a few hours, tops. Right now you're giving away the MAJORITY of the royalties on a book you worked hard on to a lovely company who have done an absolutely terrible job. They quite clearly don't give a gently caress about it, or are incompetent to a hilarious degree. Set aside an afternoon, end your relationship with BookTripe, and make all that work you put into writing the book pay off. You've already done the hard work, and you're letting someone take 60% of your profits for the easy part.
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Oct 22, 2015 06:56
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If they were doing a good job and getting him sales, letting them have a cut might be worth it. My issue is that they ruined any chance of any income at all by not knowing how to market a book, so even if he got 90% of the split it would still be awful.
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Oct 22, 2015 12:30
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6:14 - Started KDP process. Filled in text, basics. 6:16 - Uploaded manuscript. Realized I forgot to make coffee. 6:19 - Coffee brewing. KDP found some spell checks. Gotta fix that poo poo. 6:23 - Uploaded manuscript again. Added keywords. Blurb. Categories. 6:24 - Decided KDP's pricing algorithm is mentally handicapped. 6:26 - Inspected prices on other best selling scifi. Yup. I'm in line. 6:28 - Hit publish. 6:32 - Drinking coffee. 6:37 - Start on Mailchimp. I'm using template from last newsletter. 6:41 - Done. Need to wait until KDP gives me an ASIN until I can send out the newsletter. 6:55 - Go to day job. This is all I do when I publish a new novel. As far as promotions I'll hit it on Twitter and the newsletter. That's it. I don't discount on day one. There's no promotion you can do that'll be worth your money. magnificient7, I've done this eight times now. There's nothing a book manager can do that you can't do yourself. They don't have any secrets. You can do this man. Here's the cover. 
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Oct 22, 2015 13:17
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Bardeh posted:BookTripe gently caress can't believe I didn't make this joke first angel opportunity posted:If they were doing a good job and getting him sales, letting them have a cut might be worth it. My issue is that they ruined any chance of any income at all by not knowing how to market a book, so even if he got 90% of the split it would still be awful. Also this, assisted self publishing is a thing and can definitely be worth the money but when my company does assisted self publishing, we are typically working with someone who doesn't have a clue and we typically make that person a lot more money than they would have made on their own.
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Oct 22, 2015 13:50
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I dig that space dad.
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Oct 22, 2015 15:12
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Yooper posted:
I forgive you for not hiring me, cuz that's baller.
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Oct 22, 2015 15:46
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Yooper posted:6:14 - Started KDP process. Filled in text, basics.
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Oct 22, 2015 18:05
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magnificent7 posted:Thanks for this, and I get it. But was your first book published in less than an hour, including coffee? I'm sure I'll get there. Yes. In fact less as I had no mailing list at that point. There's only so much you can do. But there's a lot, and I mean a lot of people who try to sell you on doing much much more.
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Oct 22, 2015 18:26
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Yooper posted:There's only so much you can do. But there's a lot, and I mean a lot of people who try to sell you on doing much much more. This is very, very true. Plenty of $400+ "courses" out there that'll teach you how to think up decent keywords and create Facebook ads. It'll be like magic! You'll sell millions!
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Oct 22, 2015 19:56
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