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Baal posted:gently caress Riddhe No, don't gently caress him
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Oct 25, 2015 19:11
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Riddhe is the best character in Unicorn and it's not his fault that Episode 7 is a hamfisted mess.
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Oct 25, 2015 19:13
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Baal posted:gently caress Riddhe
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Oct 25, 2015 19:13
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Riddhe is terrible and I hate him
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Oct 25, 2015 19:18
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Riddhe is a wiener with an inferiority complex that lusts over a waifu that doesn't care for him and wastes Marida for no reason.
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Oct 25, 2015 19:32
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Oh my god this is so stupid
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Oct 25, 2015 19:38
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closeted republican posted:Riddhe is a wiener with an inferiority complex that lusts over a waifu that doesn't care for him and wastes Marida for no reason. This is a pretty bad reading, but Droyer asked people to not go over debates that have been rehashed constantly in the old thread. Baal posted:Oh my god this is so stupid Episode 7 retroactively makes the previous episodes of Unicorn worse.
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Oct 25, 2015 20:23
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Nah, I still love those episodes, but it definitely is a big hit, like an insanely big hit.
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Oct 25, 2015 20:26
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Kanos posted:This is a pretty bad reading, but Droyer asked people to not go over debates that have been rehashed constantly in the old thread. Since it's baal's first time watching it i feel it would be dumb to completely stifle conversation, but i don't want this thread to turn into an endless cycle of negativity like the last one did a lot. So as a compromise, everyone can talk about how bad Unicorn's ending is until the end of this page.
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Oct 25, 2015 20:26
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Baal posted:Nah, I still love those episodes, but it definitely is a big hit, like an insanely big hit. I'm just grousing and exercising hyperbole about it. I don't regret watching Unicorn in the least and I still go back to watch specific scenes from time to time because it's probably the best animated full length robot show that has ever existed. There is definitely some good stuff there like Riddhe and Zinnerman's character arcs. I'm just mad that the show ended in a bunch of newtype farts and the main villain was actually defeated by the main character being petulant. It's still a far better production from a story and character perspective than 0083, because Unicorn's bad characters are mostly just bland cardboard cutouts or generic Gundam tropes instead of actively terrible like Nina Purpleton, and Unicorn has some really good characters whereas 0083 really doesn't(unless you add in side materials which retroactively make characters like Cima interesting).
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Oct 25, 2015 20:34
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I was never able to get a bead on Riddhe besides "must protect and revitalize family honor, boner for Mineva, overall felt annoying".
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Oct 25, 2015 20:47
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Alright Unicorn's done and I can talk about it. I loving loved the show, even the last episode had some really good stuff like the philosophy of a relationship between parent and child in the context of what is the Gundam Universe. The characters are really good for the most part, even someone like Alberto Vist felt surprisingly three-dimensional at points, my favorite was probably Marida, she was really cool and had a lot of depth to her character for someone who was introduced as following the will of another person entirely. The animation's beautiful, the music is amazing, and even the most boring characters have their moments except Riddhe, gently caress him. The last episode sucks and I hate to say that because I was a big fan of CCA's ending even though I didn't particularly care for that movie for the most part because the ending where someone who's using the collective will of humanity as their power is great and cheesy in the best kind of way. The revelations are stupid, it does that Gundam thing where characters will just start getting killed for no reason other than to make a point and then the character that killed someone will start freaking the gently caress out, Amuro, Char, and Lalah's loving ghosts was too much even for the scene it's relevant to which is already a scene trying way too hard, Banagher and Full Frontal never really get a real confrontation, and the Unicorn turning into crystals is silly even if it does look cool. I watched it dubbed and the voice acting in general is really amazing, especially Steve Staley as Banagher and Keith Silverstein as Full Frontal, those two were fantastic. Overall Unicorn's probably my favorite Gundam I've watched so far of the UC stuff, even more than 0079 and War in the Pocket which I loved both of a lot. Now I get to watch F91 and Victory, oh boy.
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Oct 25, 2015 20:49
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closeted republican posted:I was never able to get a bead on Riddhe besides "must protect and revitalize family honor, boner for Mineva, overall felt annoying". The long and short of it is that Riddhe is someone who grew up in the wake of a war that murdered most of humanity and also someone who benefits from the status quo that war left behind. So he has the reasonable argument of "holy poo poo the OYW killed billions of people do you really want that to happen again?" and the less-reasonable-but-understandable viewpoint of "Well, things aren't so bad for me, so the former Zeons should just suck it up, why are they rebelling anyway?" This is complicated by him being a Newtype so he's like "man, that Minerva lady sure is Newtyping my Newtype" which is corrupted by the fact that he legitimately thinks Newtypes are hugely hosed up and will cause the war to start again, not in the least because he is aware of what the charter says and thinks that the mere existence of Newtypes legitimizes Zeon. (Something that Banagher and Mineva don't agree on by the end.) He's not a likable character in that he is a tremendous douchebag but he is a well-realized character with mostly sensible motivations.
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Oct 25, 2015 20:53
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If there is one thing I enjoy about new type bullshit, it is that you can think things at certain way but your spaceheart will push for alternatives. Riddhe's convinced Newtypes are bad while his heart wants to Newtype it up. Lalah sticks with Char despite Newtype loving Amuro. It's dumb, cheesy and hokey, but I eat it up all the same.
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Oct 25, 2015 21:15
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ImpAtom posted:The long and short of it is that Riddhe is someone who grew up in the wake of a war that murdered most of humanity and also someone who benefits from the status quo that war left behind. So he has the reasonable argument of "holy poo poo the OYW killed billions of people do you really want that to happen again?" and the less-reasonable-but-understandable viewpoint of "Well, things aren't so bad for me, so the former Zeons should just suck it up, why are they rebelling anyway?" This covers the salient plot points. To add on a little bit, Riddhe's written in a very human way, which is why I find him compelling. He has a totally reasonable, altruistic, and understandable main goal of "Holy gently caress, I've got to stop these terrorist bastards from trying to reignite the One Year War or it'll destroy humanity", but that goal is underpinned by not so good things. He doesn't really know or care why Zeon loyalists are Zeon loyalists; they're just crazy terrorist idiots. He has no real desire to see the existing order of things altered or overthrown because his life is really loving good; he's a hotshot mobile suit ace, his daddy is on the Federation high council, and his family is rich as gently caress. His position of privilege means that when his newtype kicks in and he makes a connection with Mineva he is utterly baffled why she doesn't reciprocate because his privileged life means that he's never had to deal with outright rejection before. His meltdown in episode 7 is excellent because it's him being forced to come to terms with the fact that his entire worldview is a warped misunderstanding of how things actually are in an extremely abrupt and violent manner. Prior to episode 7 he had lived in a world that was pretty comfortably black and white. Zeon loyalists are bad, Federation loyalists are good, Newtypes were bad because the Zabis used them as an excuse to try to blow up the world, Laplace's Box is bad because it legitimizes Newtypes, who are bad. Suddenly he's forced to realize that he(Good) is actually a Newtype(Bad) and is being told that he should help open Laplace's Box(Bad) by Audrey(Good), and in his despair and confusion at this mess he lashes out and kills Marida and realizes that he hosed up in the worst possible way and that everything he knows is wrong. He's assuredly a gigantic rear end in a top hat and not likeable at all for the majority of the series, but his arc is really good.
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Oct 25, 2015 21:23
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Riddhe reminds me of Shinji Ikari. He's a very human character who is strongly and consistently written and is provided with enough background and context to be genuinely understandable. And at the same time he's kind of an unlikeable twerp.
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Oct 25, 2015 23:28
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One of my favorite things about Shinji in Rebuild is how Shinji DOES get the lowbrow, shounen "I *WILL* save the girl!" moment at the end of 2.22, and it's pulled off in a really impressive and powerful way, playing off the shinji we remember from EoE, and then it turns out that he not only failed but caused the deaths of countless thousands in the process and turns back into dead eyed EoE shinji.
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Oct 26, 2015 00:19
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I've seen some mention of Dianna having a ring from Will Game in Turn-A Gundam that might be the one she's wearing in the finale and was flicking through the relevant episodes earlier on to see if I could find if she had taken the ring off, thrown it away or kept it on since I don't recall anything to do with the ring myself having last watched the series about two years ago. I didn't see anything flicking through the episodes (or the one directly following that arc's conclusion) but I may just have missed it or she may have done something with it in a different episode. He doesn't even appear to give her a ring during the scene where he proposes though, so I'm beginning to think people may have just flat out made that up on /m/. Does anyone know if she actually does chuck a ring or what? Turn-A is probably my favorite Gundam show and trying to unpack the ambiguity of the finale is a bit of a hobby I guess, since I personally feel that there is a note of romance between Dianna and Loran throughout the show, though I can definitely see why others would find it a more servile relationship. Kanos posted:I'm just mad that the show ended in a bunch of newtype farts and the main villain was actually defeated by the main character being petulant. To be fair, that problem isn't really unique to Unicorn and in Gundam alone you also have Kira running in to the same problem at the end of SEED, and there's probably other examples out there beyond Gundam too - though I can't think of any off hand. The writers give the villains big monologues about how awful people are and how pointless everything is and then give the heroes nothing but empty platitudes to answer them with. It comes across as the writers wanting to have a big, optimistic ending but not really understanding or being capable of communicating a sense of optimism, only cynicism. You'd think Banagher would have plenty of experience of why there's no reason for such extreme nihilism too, given that he's recently fallen in love, has made friends with several former enemies and despite seeing a good bit of death comes across as someone who understands that those people were sacrificing for what they felt was the greater good in many cases. He also spent a good bit of time with both sides in the conflict and understands where both are coming from as well as what both want, and that neither is bad, just opposing. It's just sad that they couldn't come up with a half decent response on his part to Full Frontal, or have him hijack the newtype vision to show Frontal some of his memories to show why he's optimistic or give his own view of what the future might hold. ImpAtom posted:He's not a likable character in that he is a tremendous douchebag but he is a well-realized character with mostly sensible motivations. I don't know. I think he's probably the most likable character in Unicorn for the first 3 or 4 episodes and still pretty likable even after that point. He's just a guy doing a job and trying to be a good person for a good stretch of the show, helping Banagher's friends early on, sneaking Mineva off to try and help prevent the conflict from escalating and trying to stop the Shambo from going out of control when he thinks Banagher is incapable of doing it. Sure, we know the pilot is a decent person in a lovely situation, but he has no idea of that and just wants to prevent more death. DamnGlitch posted:One of my favorite things about Shinji in Rebuild is how Shinji DOES get the lowbrow, shounen "I *WILL* save the girl!" moment at the end of 2.22, and it's pulled off in a really impressive and powerful way, playing off the shinji we remember from EoE, and then it turns out that he not only failed but caused the deaths of countless thousands in the process and turns back into dead eyed EoE shinji. That's basically Shinji all over though. One of the most memorable moments in Eva tv for me is Shinji actually getting some self-confidence and trying to show off by attacking Leliel only to immediately get psychologically hosed back right back down to his episode one self over the course of the episode. Any time Shinji actually manages to get some self-confidence or work up some decisiveness because someone else is in danger life pretty much immediately shits on him and puts him right back in the cage from what I recall. tsob fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Oct 26, 2015 |
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Oct 26, 2015 01:11
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tsob posted:I've seen some mention of Dianna having a ring from Will Game in Turn-A Gundam that might be the one she's wearing in the finale and was flicking through the relevant episodes earlier on to see if I could find if she had taken the ring off, thrown it away or kept it on since I don't recall anything to do with the ring myself having last watched the series about two years ago. I didn't see anything flicking through the episodes (or the one directly following that arc's conclusion) but I may just have missed it or she may have done something with it in a different episode. He doesn't even appear to give her a ring during the scene where he proposes though, so I'm beginning to think people may have just flat out made that up on /m/. Does anyone know if she actually does chuck a ring or what? I'm pretty sure /m/ made that up yes. The way the scene is shot it seems pretty obvious to me they're engagement rings.
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Oct 26, 2015 01:14
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tsob posted:
Oh sure, it happens here and there on a smaller scale but its pretty loving vast and in your face in Rebuild
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Oct 26, 2015 02:46
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Okay, first episode of Zeta, dubbed. First impressions: this is gonna be so 80s it hurts. Not big on the music, but the cheesy saxophone ending is awesome. It looks like they have an actual budget this time around, much better picture quality and animation (though they spent a huge amount of time showing us Kamille's legs as he ran). As for voice acting, it's actually not that bad. It's certainly Blue water/Ocean's second team and not their frontrunners like Scott McNeil or the Dobsons, but it's perfectly functional. Tom Edwards is no Michael Kopsa, but he still works for Char in that understated, calm performance. Kamille's voice actor is rather good as well, sounds enough like a teenager while different from Amuro. As for content, yeesh, you guys weren't kidding when you said this show is full of dickheads. Kamille punches out two Titans and an MP in this episode alone, and gets kicked in the head and billy clubbed in the gut for good measure. And the apparent protagonists, the AEUG, fire a fuckoff beam cannon at a civilian colony. Black MK II looks pretty menacing, would have liked to see it in action a bit more, but that seems to be coming next ep. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Oct 26, 2015 |
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Oct 26, 2015 05:25
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ImpAtom posted:The long and short of it is that Riddhe is someone who grew up in the wake of a war that murdered most of humanity and also someone who benefits from the status quo that war left behind. So he has the reasonable argument of "holy poo poo the OYW killed billions of people do you really want that to happen again?" and the less-reasonable-but-understandable viewpoint of "Well, things aren't so bad for me, so the former Zeons should just suck it up, why are they rebelling anyway?" I feel like this is something that gets over looked alot in gundam for some reason its talked about but the sheer horror of war wiping out more than half of all living humans is pretty intense and would basically gently caress up everyone for generations after. One thing ill give unicorn is that the asteroid colonies are what i think the original colonies always should have been, the idealistic oneil cylinders with forests and greenery never really hammered home the "we sent the poor into space and exploit the poo poo out of them" Zeon's borderline desperation at trying to get a foothold on earth or gain some breath out from under the boot of the Earth Federation makes alot more sense if colonies are legitimately lovely places to live. The original gundam's colonies being flying space parks just never jived with the message that space was a crazy place to shove lots of people.
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Oct 26, 2015 05:33
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Arcsquad12 posted:Not big on the music, but the cheesy saxophone ending is awesome. The opening and ending themes for the NA release were changed because of some licensing bullshit, find the original songs on YouTube or something.
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Oct 26, 2015 05:42
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Midjack posted:The opening and ending themes for the NA release were changed because of some licensing bullshit, find the original songs on YouTube or something. The dub opening is better  But yeah it's a surprisingly good dub for when it was made. No General Septums or anything. And get used to be people getting beat up outside of mobile suits a lot. It's kind of a running thing in Zeta.
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Oct 26, 2015 05:46
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+120, at least 9 half naked women Well they had to destroy the angel halo somehow. A few thousand dead civillians doesn't mean anything! And after the commercial, they're gonna send a platoon of women at Usso who wearing nothing but bikinis and bazookas? The hell is going on... Seriousy explain to me what the point of that was other than showing Katejina is insane? Also now two people have had Kagatie at gun point and failed to shoot him, c'mon guys. And of course, they fail to shut off the doomsday machine when hey had the chance... because doing so would kill all of the people sleeping inside. loving hell, Kagatie could you be any more of a giant turd? Oh dear god the Angel Halo screams. It screams. That's gonna make for some unpleasant dreams. Usso's kill count, including nine bikini babes is 2401. Two episodes to go...
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Oct 26, 2015 05:56
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Logicblade posted:+120, at least 9 half naked women I think the idea of the bikini squad was that Katejina wasn't expecting Usso to be able to attack flesh and blood humans. There's a degree of separation when you're attacking a machine with someone inside it. It's still weird as hell though.
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Oct 26, 2015 06:03
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Katejina snapped, and the two replacement shrikes got destroyed. R.I.P. Reinforce's old guys as well, at least they got to go out in a dramatic heroic charge and not get completely wasted doing so. Fake Jin turned out to be an alright guy in the end. The Angel Halo is changing into it's final form, and Usso and Chronicle are having their final dramatic fight. And Katejina just killed the last Shrike team member. And... oh god what, Katejina really thinks Usso and Chronicle are fighting for her love, she is completely bent. Weird would be putting it lightly, it's like Victory just keeps trying to top itself with insane women, but I think Faula still barely takes the cake. One episode to go. Usso's kill count is 2436. It turns out the Buster Rifle drops mechs like no one's business.
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Oct 26, 2015 06:40
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And... it's over. I did it, I stood up to the Victory. Odelo got wrecked by Katejina, so R.I.P. Odelo. Chronicle got chumped, it was tragic for half a second, but then you just hear this crunch sound and you can't help but laugh your rear end off. Usso went full newtype so his Gundam got super powered for the last half of the episode, and the Angel Halo newtype ghosts haunted Kagatie right before he died. At the very least people who deserved to die did, and Katejina ended up having everything she ever knew shattered and is left a broken husk of a woman. A very complete ending, if utterly head scratching at times. Usso's final kill tally is: 2437
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Oct 26, 2015 07:15
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Camille is a man's name!Logicblade posted:Katejina snapped, and the two replacement shrikes got destroyed. R.I.P. Reinforce's old guys as well, at least they got to go out in a dramatic heroic charge and not get completely wasted doing so. Fake Jin turned out to be an alright guy in the end. The Angel Halo is changing into it's final form, and Usso and Chronicle are having their final dramatic fight. And Katejina just killed the last Shrike team member. And... oh god what, Katejina really thinks Usso and Chronicle are fighting for her love, she is completely bent. Weird would be putting it lightly, it's like Victory just keeps trying to top itself with insane women, but I think Faula still barely takes the cake. His name will live on and become a legend.
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Oct 26, 2015 07:39
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Logicblade posted:Chronicle got chumped, it was tragic for half a second, but then you just hear this crunch sound and you can't help but laugh your rear end off. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zI4ewYRrv7s
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Oct 26, 2015 14:47
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Begemot posted:It's the other side of the invincible protagonist suit coin, lives are ruined just from being unlucky enough to run into it, even if the pilot doesn't have any ill will against the individual pilots on the other side. It would have driven me away from the show if they had handled it any other way than they did. Jerid was just the perfect amount of douchebag to make you vaguely sort of sympathetic at how anti-climactic it all is, but also has done enough awful things that you don't actually feel pity. My biggest issue with Gundam stories as I mentioned before is that they're kind of nakedly obvious teenage power fantasies for that viewer demographic, but that sort of story of awful luck kind of makes it more tolerable.
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Oct 26, 2015 18:12
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Oct 26, 2015 19:13
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"Weapons are dangerous Mr. Chronicle!" (Here I'll show you)
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Oct 26, 2015 19:21
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I have a kinda general Gundam question, please keep in mind that the only Gundam series I've seen all the way through is Turn A and I'm currently watching IBO and GReco. Anyway, where do the iconic white gundams usually come from? In Turn A for example, it is super old and so is the one in ibo. Is that generally the case? Or does it vary wildly? My (very vague) hunch is that they're generally powerful artifacts of unknown origin. Was there some dude making and burying the things back in the past? e: not concerned about being spoiled on anything
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Oct 26, 2015 19:53
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a kitten posted:I have a kinda general Gundam question, please keep in mind that the only Gundam series I've seen all the way through is Turn A and I'm currently watching IBO and GReco. More often than not they're state-of-the-art robots fresh from the factory. What makes turn a and g-reco exceptions is that both of those have settings where technology has greatly regressed.
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Oct 26, 2015 19:58
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a kitten posted:I have a kinda general Gundam question, please keep in mind that the only Gundam series I've seen all the way through is Turn A and I'm currently watching IBO and GReco. no most of the time gundams are built by some form of earth government. They are advanced protypes built during a presently running conflict. People know where they come from. Turn A and G Reco and IBO are sort of outliers in that the protagonists don't know where it comes from.
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Oct 26, 2015 19:58
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Aha, cool. And thanks
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Oct 26, 2015 20:09
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By series: MSG: prototype. Zeta: next-gen mass production model (Gundam Mk. II), then cutting edge ace custom (Zeta Gundam). ZZ: prototype. CCA: cutting edge ace custom. 0080: prototype. 0083: prototypes. F91: prototype. Victory: prototype. G Gundam: "Gundam" is basically the generic term for mobile suit. 08th MS Team: limited stop-gap production run making use of leftover excess spare parts for the original Gundam prototype. Wing: one-off custom suits developed from a single prototype. Gundam X: one of the few remaining pre-war mass-production mobile suits. Turn-A: powerful artefact from the distant past. SEED: prototype. 00: super robots. AGE: prototype. Unicorn: prototype. G-Reco: prototypes. IBO: powerful artefact from the (much less distant) past. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Oct 26, 2015 |
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Oct 26, 2015 20:26
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The gundams in G Gundam are specifically the mobile suits used to represent counties in the gundam fight. Your do see non gundam suits a few times, like the one that butler uses (with a steering wheel) and the amphibious ones that come to take out the tequila gundam.
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Oct 26, 2015 20:31
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Kinda funny how they seem to be leaning on the "old tech rediscovered" angle recently. Its really interesting to see someone evaluate it like that who isnt familiar with the bulk of the previous work.
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Oct 26, 2015 20:33
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