CanPol 2015 Eh-lection - The Red Wedding - The Something Awful Forums

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > CanPol 2015 Eh-lection - The Red Wedding

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leftist heap: Feb 28, 2013; Fun Shoe

Jordan7hm posted:

I liked the longer election. It went a bit too long, but I'd be ok with an 8 week campaign.

Yeah, I liked the longer election in the end as well. I'd like to see fixed or bracketed lengths, stricter spending limits and maybe some independent way of organizing debates though.

# ? Oct 26, 2015 15:58

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# ? Apr 30, 2024 17:16

Pinterest Mom: Jun 9, 2009

RBC posted:

its because he's forced to be in the closet by his own politics and won't come out

There is no meaningful sense in which Baird is in the closet, and LGBT people don't have a responsibility to hold press conferences announcing that they're queer to the world once they ascend to the public eye.

He's been a reliable ally for LGBT rights in Parliament and in the Conservative Party and marched in pride parades while he was a minister. He's not a Larry Craig who publicly espoused family values but had a wide stance in airport bathrooms. He's just some guy who doesn't talk about his private life in public. He's been a prominent Conservative politician for, what, twenty years, and his sexuality has been an open secret that whole time. It hasn't been an issue for him in the PCPO or the CPC, and self-satisfied progressives sniggering about straw conservatives who would just hate Baird if they knew seems to be the only thing keeping the "issue" of Baird's sexuality alive.

# ? Oct 26, 2015 16:01

brucio: Nov 22, 2004

I think that you're overestimating how well known it is and I think comparing the actions of John Baird, CPC MP and John Baird, CPC Leader are not really fair. This is the same party that demoted a minister for allocating federal funds to a pride event in Toronto.

Would John Baird, CPC Leader be able to continue as a supporter of pride and gay rights with troglodytes like Brad Trost still in the party?

# ? Oct 26, 2015 16:17

Count Roland: Oct 6, 2013

I went to Bairds wiki page to get confirmation. No "personal life" section, kinda odd. In the Talk page, this is the first comment:

claim that the subject is openly gay?

hah.

# ? Oct 26, 2015 16:29

Risky Bisquick: Jan 18, 2008; PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.; Buglord

Pinterest Mom posted:

There is no meaningful sense in which Baird is in the closet, and LGBT people don't have a responsibility to hold press conferences announcing that they're queer to the world once they ascend to the public eye.

He's been a reliable ally for LGBT rights in Parliament and in the Conservative Party and marched in pride parades while he was a minister. He's not a Larry Craig who publicly espoused family values but had a wide stance in airport bathrooms. He's just some guy who doesn't talk about his private life in public. He's been a prominent Conservative politician for, what, twenty years, and his sexuality has been an open secret that whole time. It hasn't been an issue for him in the PCPO or the CPC, and self-satisfied progressives sniggering about straw conservatives who would just hate Baird if they knew seems to be the only thing keeping the "issue" of Baird's sexuality alive.

It's amusing in the fact he was a serious player in a party of supposed conservatives, some of whom want to reopen the abortion debate or outright ban Muslims in public. Call it a case of a strange brand ambassador for the social conservatism movement in Canada. The public largely doesn't care about sexual orientation at this point, but it is worth mentioning the ones that would "may" also overlap with the base of the CPC.

# ? Oct 26, 2015 16:31

Ron Paul Atreides: Apr 19, 2012; Uyghurs situation in Xinjiang? Just a police action, do not fret. Not ongoing genocide like in EVIL Canada.

I am definitely not a tankie.

Pinterest Mom posted:

There is no meaningful sense in which Baird is in the closet, and LGBT people don't have a responsibility to hold press conferences announcing that they're queer to the world once they ascend to the public eye.

He's been a reliable ally for LGBT rights in Parliament and in the Conservative Party and marched in pride parades while he was a minister. He's not a Larry Craig who publicly espoused family values but had a wide stance in airport bathrooms. He's just some guy who doesn't talk about his private life in public. He's been a prominent Conservative politician for, what, twenty years, and his sexuality has been an open secret that whole time. It hasn't been an issue for him in the PCPO or the CPC, and self-satisfied progressives sniggering about straw conservatives who would just hate Baird if they knew seems to be the only thing keeping the "issue" of Baird's sexuality alive.

it's because lots of "progressive" people still think it's insulting to be called gay and don't feel like observing their own prejudices in any meaningful way. Not anyone specifically in this thread but I've def seen the kind of comments PM is talking about here coming from lib and ndp supporters.

The log cabin Republicans in the US are a different kettle of fish, given that their party of choice does actively step on their civil rights and occasionally throats,but that really doesn't apply up here so Baird being gay and CPC doesn't mean he's somehow a contradiction, just means he has kinda lovely values like many other people.

# ? Oct 26, 2015 16:33

InfiniteZero: Sep 11, 2004; PINK GUITAR FIRE ROBOT; College Slice

I'm relieved that the election is over and that politics are returning to normal now, like guys from small towns building a throne of beer boxes in front of the Legislature in Winnipeg:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/beer-box-throne-at-manitoba-legislature-protests-take-from-rural-hotels-1.3288622

He's mad because the MLCC owned lottery terminals only give him a 20% cut. So the only logical thing to do is build a giant throne of beer. CBC commenters blame his plight on "socialism". Again: back to normal.

# ? Oct 26, 2015 16:36

Risky Bisquick: Jan 18, 2008; PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.; Buglord

quote:

http://www.torontosun.com/2015/10/25/csis-operations-under-c-51-with-foreign-partners-raise-accountability-concerns

CSIS operations under C-51 with foreign partners raise accountability concerns

OTTAWA -- Internal government notes say the Canadian Security Intelligence Service is likely to team up with "trusted allies," such as the American CIA and Britain's MI6, on overseas operations to derail threats -- plans that underscore concerns about CSIS accountability under new security legislation.

The omnibus bill known as C-51 allows CSIS to engage in joint "disruption" efforts abroad -- including covert actions that break foreign laws -- something the spy service previously had no authority to do, according to the government notes.

"In the international context, CSIS would likely first seek avenues to work jointly with partners in the local jurisdiction or trusted allies before engaging in independent action," the notes say.

"In the past, CSIS has been invited to participate in joint operations abroad to disrupt threats or to provide assistance to allies, but has had no mandate to do so."

CSIS's new threat disruption mandate -- perhaps the most contentious element of the legislation that received royal assent in June -- could include surreptitious meddling with websites, cancelling airline reservations, disabling a car or myriad other schemes.

The spy service would be allowed to engage in disruption activities that violate the Charter of Rights and Freedoms as long as a judge sanctions them, a measure critics say perverts the role of the judiciary.

CSIS would co-ordinate threat disruption activity with other agencies such as the RCMP, Canada Border Services Agency and Foreign Affairs, and could use its statutory mandate to enlist the technical expertise of the Communications Security Establishment, Canada's electronic spy agency, the government notes say.

However, the Security Intelligence Review Committee, the watchdog known as SIRC that keeps an eye on CSIS, is limited to examining the spy service alone.

The notion of CSIS teaming up with foreign and domestic partners to derail threats raises concerns about SIRC's ability to "follow the thread" and look at the entire operation, said University of Ottawa law professor Craig Forcese, who obtained the government notes under the Access to Information Act.

"SIRC is stovepiped to CSIS -- that is, it can only look at what CSIS does, not at what any partner might do," said Forcese, co-author of "False Security," a book that extensively critiques C-51, calling it a squandered opportunity.

As the scale and scope of joint operations expand, the prospect of "gaps in the accountability system" increases apace, he added.

Josh Paterson, executive director of the British Columbia Civil Liberties Association, said SIRC, as presently constituted and resourced, "is totally inadequate" for the task of reviewing CSIS activities abroad. "When actions are mixed together with foreign agencies, the problem is more thorny."

SIRC will need to "tool up its capacity" to review foreign operations, Forcese said. "That will require more money and perhaps different skills -- including language skills. SIRC is on record noting that reviews of foreign operations are particularly resource intensive."

The new Liberal government has indicated it will revamp "problematic elements" of C-51, for instance by ensuring all CSIS warrants respect the charter. It also plans to create a security-cleared committee of parliamentarians who could see any relevant information held by federal agencies.

A parliamentary committee, "while not insignificant," can't do all the work, said Paterson. The Canadian Civil Liberties Association has joined Canadian Journalists for Free Expression in a court challenge of C-51's constitutionality.

Existing intelligence watchdogs "need to be strengthened and made able to deal with inter-agency activities," Paterson said.

Forcese agrees, saying he hopes "the Liberal government understands this, and won't confine its accountability reform to simply creating a special security parliamentary committee."

C-51 and FVEY causing accountability concerns, colour me surprised.

# ? Oct 26, 2015 16:46

RBC: Nov 23, 2007; IM STILL SPENDING MONEY FROM 1888

Pinterest Mom posted:

There is no meaningful sense in which Baird is in the closet, and LGBT people don't have a responsibility to hold press conferences announcing that they're queer to the world once they ascend to the public eye.

He's been a reliable ally for LGBT rights in Parliament and in the Conservative Party and marched in pride parades while he was a minister. He's not a Larry Craig who publicly espoused family values but had a wide stance in airport bathrooms. He's just some guy who doesn't talk about his private life in public. He's been a prominent Conservative politician for, what, twenty years, and his sexuality has been an open secret that whole time. It hasn't been an issue for him in the PCPO or the CPC, and self-satisfied progressives sniggering about straw conservatives who would just hate Baird if they knew seems to be the only thing keeping the "issue" of Baird's sexuality alive.

lmao

# ? Oct 26, 2015 16:50

Helsing: Aug 23, 2003; DON'T POST IN THE ELECTION THREAD UNLESS YOU JOE BIDEN

Pinterest Mom posted:

AFAIK, Sears isn't "close to the leadership", and he's put his name to quotes about Tom having temper tantrums and not working well with colleagues. It's really implausible to me that he'd either take it upon himself or allow himself to be dispatched by the leadership to warn off potential challengers and protect Tom's leadership. Anyone who knows party culture and was trying to make an impartial observation could say "the party wouldn't take well to someone being seen as pushing the leader"!

I've been trying to back up my assertion that Sears was closer to the last campaign than this but it looks like I misremembered, so I guess I spoke too soon. Thanks for clarifying that, my mistake. I generally try to verify stuff before I post so this is a bit embarrassing, but it's good you corrected me.

# ? Oct 26, 2015 17:02

abuse culture.: Sep 8, 2004

Page 420

# ? Oct 26, 2015 17:11

bring back old gbs: Feb 28, 2007; by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

abuse culture. posted:

Page 420

heh this is a good page

....For the PRIME MINISTER to post on!!!!!!!!

# ? Oct 26, 2015 17:15

Funkdreamer: Jul 15, 2005; It'll be a blast

Lock thread, let's end on a high note

# ? Oct 26, 2015 17:23

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

Conservatives love gay conservatives because the conservative movement's earlier consensus on gay rights did them a huge amount of damage. They like to have token gays so they can go "Look everybody! We're not the monsters you think we are! Now about all those dirty muslims..."

# ? Oct 26, 2015 17:36

Coolwhoami: Sep 13, 2007

jm20 posted:

It's amusing in the fact he was a serious player in a party of supposed conservatives, some of whom want to reopen the abortion debate or outright ban Muslims in public. Call it a case of a strange brand ambassador for the social conservatism movement in Canada. The public largely doesn't care about sexual orientation at this point, but it is worth mentioning the ones that would "may" also overlap with the base of the CPC.

Remember that when he taking shots at Uganda, Kenya and Russia for passing overtly anti-gay laws he got criticized by REAL Women of Canada, of which in response to hearing that Uganda was considering the death penalty for having homosexual relationships, said "It may be unwise by Western standards, but who are we to interfere in a sovereign country?". This is the same group that the year before had been selected as a recipient of the Queen's Diamond Jubilee medal. It's always been strange to me that he gets poo poo for not doing enough or being a bad gay rights ambassador given how consistent he's been about supporting gay rights, and the genuine need for such people on all sides of the political spectrum to ensure their continued preservation.

It's a shame he won't run, as I would imagine that would be the final swing on the fiscal/social conservative wedge and force a schism in the party.

# ? Oct 26, 2015 17:51

Fried Watermelon: Dec 29, 2008

The best part of the election is to find out who of my friends are racist shitlords that belong in America.

So many people thinking ISIS is gonna come over and start attacking Canada, like they aren't an ocean away with no way to cross in large numbers.

We need weed now to drown out the dumbass conservatives and actually do productive things for Canada

# ? Oct 26, 2015 17:56

Hexigrammus: May 22, 2006; Cheech Wizard stories are clean, wholesome, reflective truths that go great with the marijuana munchies and a blow job.

rrrrrrrrrrrt posted:

Christ.

That article is making the decision seem more precedent setting than it actually is, since the same decision was made WRT to Victoria in 2008 (from what I've read elsewhere this decision references the other). Also this:

is basically what ended up happening in Victoria. It's not as bad as that, because people weren't setting up permanent-esque tents since they were getting kicked out every morning, but still VicPD has to spend a lot of time every morning kicking people out of parks. They are proposing a more permanent tent city near downtown, but people are predictably pretty outraged by the idea of it.

It is a complicated issue, but it still boggles my mind that Jesusland, B.C. is the place where the poor get their meager possessions destroyed and chicken poo poo dumped on them. :wtc:

Interesting that the Christian community gets a pass for not strongly opposing this behaviour.

# ? Oct 26, 2015 17:56

resistentialism: Aug 13, 2007

THC posted:

Conservatives love gay conservatives because the conservative movement's earlier consensus on gay rights did them a huge amount of damage. They like to have token gays so they can go "Look everybody! We're not the monsters you think we are! Now about all those dirty muslims..."

Just make sure they don't use the bathroom in my god drat house. Drive him to McDonald's and let him go there.

# ? Oct 26, 2015 18:24

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

In news that will surprise precisely zero regular CanPol posters/readers, BC is terrible.

quote:

One case unveiled in Denham�s report concerns B.C.�s notorious Highway of Tears, the road that links the City of Prince George, in the province�s interior, to the northern coastline. It�s where female hitchhikers � many of them aboriginal � have gone missing over the years. Some of the women are known to have been murdered.

B.C.�s Ministry of Transportation met last year with dozens of community groups and First Nations leaders to examine safe transportation options along the highway. Several months later, the B.C. NDP submitted an access to information request, asking for �all government records that make reference to the issue of missing women along Highway 16/the Highway of Tears and specifically including records related to meetings held by the ministry on this issue.�

The request went to the office of Todd Stone, the transportation minister, and landed on the desk of executive assistant Tim Duncan, then just a few weeks on the job. According to the information commissioner�s report, Duncan searched his own computer and email files and found between 15 to 20 positive �responses� to the request.

He alerted another staffer, ministerial assistant George Gretes, according to the report. �You got to get rid of those,� Gretes allegedly told Duncan, taking Duncan�s computer keyboard from him and removing the retrieved files.

According to Duncan�s evidence, Gretes performed a �triple deletion.� Items were moved to a �deleted items� folder, which was then emptied, and a �recover deleted items� folder was also emptied. Poof. Gone. Duncan was told the practice was common in B.C. He was surprised and disturbed.

After some delay, the NDP heard back from Information Access Operations, the government body that processes information requests for government ministries. �No records were located in response to your request,� the IAO said.

# ? Oct 26, 2015 18:54

David Corbett: Feb 6, 2008; Courage, my friends; 'tis not too late to build a better world.

RBC posted:

lmao

A cutting rebuke. How ever shall Pinterest Mom redeem himself now!?

Pinterest Mom is completely right on this one. I've heard far, far more tittering about Baird's bedroom activities from the left wing than the right, because it seems conservative straw men care far more about it than actual conservatives do. If you want to hear conservatives attack someone for possibly being gay, look at Naheed Nenshi. The ability to rationalize away outgroup hatred against one's friends and allies is something that almost anyone, except for the most frothing hater or psychopath, possesses.

And yeah, I also agree with Pinterest Mom's implied observation that there now seems to be a tremendous amount of pressure put on prominent non-straight people to out themselves. Should society be accepting of their sexuality? Sure. Are they required to make it a part of their public personas? No.

# ? Oct 26, 2015 18:55

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

He should quit the conservative party imo.

# ? Oct 26, 2015 19:01

flakeloaf: Feb 26, 2003; Still better than android clock

An MP's sexuality isn't an issue until (s)he makes it an issue. The less I hear about how Joe Oliver fucks the better.

# ? Oct 26, 2015 19:02

etalian: Mar 20, 2006

vyelkin posted:

In news that will surprise precisely zero regular CanPol posters/readers, BC is terrible.

Maybe they are just trying to get hired by the Hillary campaign?

# ? Oct 26, 2015 19:03

sbaldrick: Jul 19, 2006; Driven by Hate

David Corbett posted:

A cutting rebuke. How ever shall Pinterest Mom redeem himself now!?

Pinterest Mom is completely right on this one. I've heard far, far more tittering about Baird's bedroom activities from the left wing than the right, because it seems conservative straw men care far more about it than actual conservatives do. If you want to hear conservatives attack someone for possibly being gay, look at Naheed Nenshi. The ability to rationalize away outgroup hatred against one's friends and allies is something that almost anyone, except for the most frothing hater or psychopath, possesses.

And yeah, I also agree with Pinterest Mom's implied observation that there now seems to be a tremendous amount of pressure put on prominent non-straight people to out themselves. Should society be accepting of their sexuality? Sure. Are they required to make it a part of their public personas? No.

He's not anywhere near right on this.

He gets called out about it because he's a member of a party that's spent years making GBS threads on it and did plan on a free vote in 2006 to ban gay marriage till they couldn't get it passed.

It's the same reason people give Log Cabin Republicans poo poo, if you belong to a party that goal is to poo poo on you there is a problem

# ? Oct 26, 2015 19:05

namaste friends: Sep 18, 2004; by Smythe

Hahahaha y'all acting like it's no big deal that a gay swears fealty to a socially conservative poo poo head party.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Oct 26, 2015 19:11

flakeloaf: Feb 26, 2003; Still better than android clock

sbaldrick posted:

It's the same reason people give Log Cabin Republicans poo poo, if you belong to a party that goal is to poo poo on you there is a problem

[img-rahimjaffer.jpg]

# ? Oct 26, 2015 19:14

Risky Bisquick: Jan 18, 2008; PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.; Buglord

I wonder how many Niqab wearing muslims will stand lockstep with the Conservative Party of Canada to protect them from the refugees trying to come to Canada. I wonder if that would be ironic considering Baird standing with the party run by the reform CPO who advocated against his rights isn't apparently slightly ironic.

# ? Oct 26, 2015 19:14

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

sbaldrick posted:

He's not anywhere near right on this.

He gets called out about it because he's a member of a party that's spent years making GBS threads on it and did plan on a free vote in 2006 to ban gay marriage till they couldn't get it passed.

It's the same reason people give Log Cabin Republicans poo poo, if you belong to a party that goal is to poo poo on you there is a problem

And instead of learning the lesson they needed to learn from that episode, they trained the barrel on other marginalized groups like trans people and refugees. But nobody cares about them so it's acceptable I guess.

# ? Oct 26, 2015 19:16

sbaldrick: Jul 19, 2006; Driven by Hate

THC posted:

And instead of learning the lesson they needed to learn from that episode, they trained the barrel on other marginalized groups like trans people and refugees. But nobody cares about them so it's acceptable I guess.

Well they didn't really train the barrel on those groups till the last election, in the second term they poo poo on science full force.

# ? Oct 26, 2015 19:24

Risky Bisquick: Jan 18, 2008; PLEASE LET ME WRITE YOUR VICTIM IMPACT STATEMENT SO I CAN FURTHER DEMONSTRATE THE CALAMITY THAT IS OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM.; Buglord

THC posted:

And instead of learning the lesson they needed to learn from that episode, they trained the barrel on other marginalized groups like trans people and refugees. But nobody cares about them so it's acceptable I guess.

Don't forget aboriginals, they are the go-to dogwhistle now.

# ? Oct 26, 2015 19:25

Tipps: Apr 18, 2006; party in the front

business in the back

David Corbett posted:

And yeah, I also agree with Pinterest Mom's implied observation that there now seems to be a tremendous amount of pressure put on prominent non-straight people to out themselves. Should society be accepting of their sexuality? Sure. Are they required to make it a part of their public personas? No.

The counter-argument whenever this dead horse "outing" debate comes up every time a public figure's sexuality is questioned is whether or not high-profile public officials have a "moral" duty to be out in order to normalize LGBT people in positions of power, rather than contributing to the status quo of all power belonging to old straight white people.

By being out, they can earnestly represent the LGBT community and work to stamp out inner-party homophobia from the BC bible belt/Alberta folks, instead of staying in the glass closet which the LGBT community generally sees as a cowardly concession to the price of staying in power.

That right-wingers still openly call Wynne a "dyke" (or Nenshi a "human being") is a testament to how there's still a long way to go for LGBT acceptance for people in positions of power - and open representation at high levels of government is an important step towards that.

# ? Oct 26, 2015 19:26

flakeloaf: Feb 26, 2003; Still better than android clock

Tipps posted:

That right-wingers still openly call Wynne a "dyke" (or Nenshi a "human being") is a testament to how there's still a long way to go for LGBT acceptance for people in positions of power - and open representation at high levels of government is an important step towards that.

Absent their out-ness, these same people would just go calling them "cow" and "haji".

# ? Oct 26, 2015 19:28

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

Tipps posted:

That right-wingers still openly call Wynne a "dyke" (or Nenshi a "human being") is a testament to how there's still a long way to go for LGBT acceptance for people in positions of power - and open representation at high levels of government is an important step towards that.

Wynne is gay? I had no idea, it's strange how she never brings it up.

# ? Oct 26, 2015 19:37

Dreylad: Jun 19, 2001

oh god close this thread before this conversation goes any further.

# ? Oct 26, 2015 19:39

Rust Martialis: May 8, 2007; At night, Bavovnyatko quietly comes to the occupiers’ bases, depots, airfields, oil refineries and other places full of flammable items and starts playing with fire there

Didn't note this - old Eric is back votesplaining how accurate he REALLY was:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-grenier-projections-oct22-1.3282596

So punchable.

# ? Oct 26, 2015 19:59

Whiskey Sours: Jan 25, 2014; Weather proof.

Dreylad posted:

oh god close this thread before this conversation goes any further.

Four more posts after me and we're past page 420, so I agree with this.

# ? Oct 26, 2015 20:21

T.C.: Feb 10, 2004; Believe.

Rust Martialis posted:

Didn't note this - old Eric is back votesplaining how accurate he REALLY was:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-grenier-projections-oct22-1.3282596

So punchable.

It's such a useless model on a conceptual basis that trying to put error bars on it is ridiculous. It's probably slightly better than guessing at overall results, but on a per riding basis is probably worse than an informed guess. On the other hand, you probably can't do all that much better with publically available polling.

I don't understand why he plays pretend statistician instead of just selling it as the interesting but inaccurate curiosity that it is.

Sell it as a best high level guesstimate and then when it's wrong shrug and tell people that poo poo happens

# ? Oct 26, 2015 20:40

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# ? Apr 30, 2024 17:16

Kafka Esq.: Jan 1, 2005; "If you ever even think about calling me anything but 'The Crab' I will go so fucking crab on your ass you won't even see what crab'd your crab" -The Crab(TM)

NEW THREAD GO GO GO

# ? Oct 26, 2015 21:26

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > CanPol 2015 Eh-lection - The Red Wedding

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