|
Iunnrais posted:Yeah, forget what I said about being salvageable. The writing is just poo poo. Gameplay still looks amazing, though.
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2015 07:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 3, 2024 13:17 |
|
|
I just click the little links that say "game". SupSuper was right to separate the two. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2015 11:01
|
|
|
It's like, honestly? The writing isn't 100% poo poo. It's just really, really hit-or-miss and desperately needed an editor. The whole thing gives me a real strong "first draft" vibe. There's some stuff here that could be good, yeah, but it's all just been pooped out onto the word processor in one go and sent along its merry way. One of the big things it looks like to me is that they're using all these tropes like the revenge, and the Tragic Quest, and the thing where the villain tries to guilt-trip the hero, and the spoilered thing we discussed earlier, but they're not really thinking about why they're using the trope, they just used it because "it's dramatic" or "mature" or whatever they decided their watchword was with the story. They didn't really make an effort or even particularly appear to understand how to make the super serious murder stuff and the lighthearted fun stuff mesh into a coherent whole, so instead of a complex, multifaceted story with a variety of emotional states they have a grimdark fanfiction and an enjoyable-if-tepid Saturday morning cartoon vying for supremacy throughout the whole thing. This is all on top of the fact that the quality is all over the place and just because I can recognize whether a scene was supposed to be specifically dramatic or funny, doesn't guarantee that it actually was. I think if they'd gotten an editor, maybe budgeted their Kickstarter's goal a little higher to employ a head writer with an actual good script or two under their belt, and picked a tone to stick with the story would have been a lot better. I swung by the official forums once or twice looking for info about that DLC. It was fulla the usual nerds crowing about how great and progressive it was for a game with a cartoony Sonic aesthetic to have a mature story and how wrong everyone is for saying it can't be done. Real big fans of the spoiler. I don't go back there anymore.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 04:19
|
|
|
Me and some friends did a stream of this game a few months back. The thing that stuck out most to me and a few others is that they subhead the title in katakana despite not having a japanese language setting, and despite the fact that a lot of stylistic elements are cribbed more from China. It really is Deviantart: the Game (with a dash of Furaffinity; if I remember right the soundtrack was done by someone there) except that the gameplay itself isn't bad. It does have some massive spikes in terms of difficulty come the end of it, but I was playing as the motorcycle cat so maybe that had something to do with it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 05:00
|
|
|
Dr. Buttass posted:It's like, honestly? The writing isn't 100% poo poo. It's just really, really hit-or-miss and desperately needed an editor. The whole thing gives me a real strong "first draft" vibe. There's some stuff here that could be good, yeah, but it's all just been pooped out onto the word processor in one go and sent along its merry way. One of the big things it looks like to me is that they're using all these tropes like the revenge, and the Tragic Quest, and the thing where the villain tries to guilt-trip the hero, and the spoilered thing we discussed earlier, but they're not really thinking about why they're using the trope, they just used it because "it's dramatic" or "mature" or whatever they decided their watchword was with the story. They didn't really make an effort or even particularly appear to understand how to make the super serious murder stuff and the lighthearted fun stuff mesh into a coherent whole, so instead of a complex, multifaceted story with a variety of emotional states they have a grimdark fanfiction and an enjoyable-if-tepid Saturday morning cartoon vying for supremacy throughout the whole thing. This is all on top of the fact that the quality is all over the place and just because I can recognize whether a scene was supposed to be specifically dramatic or funny, doesn't guarantee that it actually was. I think if they'd gotten an editor, maybe budgeted their Kickstarter's goal a little higher to employ a head writer with an actual good script or two under their belt, and picked a tone to stick with the story would have been a lot better. That's a fair look at it. They never really had the chance to do any of those second passes. From everything I've seen, I give the developers the benefit of the doubt (?) and believe it's not like they don't know or are oblivious to the holes in the plot, especially since a lot of their recognition of the problems (e.g. other ways of delivering dialogue to reduce the over reliance on cutscenes) was cut. That said I think the constant ragging on the art style is too much. By any measure it's a really pretty looking game (especially for the "pixel indie game" genre), and the cartoon animal thing fits that period of games. It's not like anyone would have an offensive reaction to Donkey Kong or Spyro the Dragon. Nobody remembers Spyro the Dragon. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 05:23
|
|
|
mycot posted:Nobody remembers Spyro the Dragon. After what happened to the franchise, it's easier to just... forget.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 05:39
|
|
|
Ironslave posted:After what happened to the franchise, it's easier to just... forget. True, I watched the entirety of JustAFriend's Let's Play of Spyro 4 recently. That game is like anti-childhood.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 05:42
|
|
|
mycot posted:Nobody remembers Spyro the Dragon. Although I've only ever played the three PS1 games, and kind of intend to keep it that way.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 06:26
|
|
|
Shadow Hog posted:I remember Spyro the Dragon. Probably the best offering the collectathon platformer subgenre ever had. ...I assume you're not counting the 3D Mario games as collectathons, then? I mean, I agree otherwise, just sayin'. Spyro was really nice in that it was one of the rare 3D mascot platformers of that era that both felt really good in your hands and handled appreciably differently from Mario, which is more than 3D Sonic or Crash Bandicoot could say. Anyone who hasn't watched Just A Friend's looks at those games definitely should - good LPs of good games. ...Er, 2 and 3 were good games, anyway.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 06:30
|
|
|
Maybe? I dunno, the comparison that I was thinking of writing that was Banjo-Kazooie, which isn't as far off the deep end as Tooie or especially DK64, but still pretty big. I feel Spyro favors comparably to that, since the levels are smaller and more focused, so you can relatively easily find everything that needs finding in one pass instead of wasting an hour or two combing the stage for that last damned music note. Although the latter games of the PS1 trilogy got quite bloated with those playable sidekicks and minigames. Bleh. The collecting in Mario games didn't really feel like the focus to the same extent - other than Power Stars/Shine Sprites, but those are more like the goal posts for various usually-mutually-exclusive obstacle courses in the level than something you're grabbing along the way while you give the level a once-over. (Less so in Mario 64, where you'll cover a lot of the same ground going after the different stars and can often do the stars out of order as a result; much, much more so in Galaxy, where the paths to each star are significantly more divergent.)
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 07:03
|
|
|
Dr. Buttass posted:It's like, honestly? The writing isn't 100% poo poo. It's just really, really hit-or-miss and desperately needed an editor. Not to appear as though I'm deliberately trying to contradict you at every turn since I agree with just about everything else you wrote but I what I find the most puzzling about the story is that it clearly was edited and still explains nothing, like every so often a character will have a line that comes across like its alluding to a more interesting plot detail I'd much rather be hearing about that is then never expanded upon or worse, something that sounds like a total non sequitur until you realise it's probably referring to a scene that got straight up cut. The latter happens a lot (although I can't really pick out any examples from the cutscenes shown so far) and it's like the game already has way too much goddamn cutscene and yet I can very clearly see where shitloads more are flat out missing so it begs the question of how boring the other stuff was if this is what they left in. also the official forums are hilarious garbage I agree its exactly the kind of fanbase you'd expect a game like this to attract SuccinctAndPunchy fucked around with this message at 09:25 on Oct 1, 2015 |
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 09:22
|
|
|
SuccinctAndPunchy posted:Not to appear as though I'm deliberately trying to contradict you at every turn since I agree with just about everything else you wrote but I what I find the most puzzling about the story is that it clearly was edited and still explains nothing, like every so often a character will have a line that comes across like its alluding to a more interesting plot detail I'd much rather be hearing about that is then never expanded upon or worse, something that sounds like a total non sequitur until you realise it's probably referring to a scene that got straight up cut. The latter happens a lot (although I can't really pick out any examples from the cutscenes shown so far) and it's like the game already has way too much goddamn cutscene and yet I can very clearly see where shitloads more are flat out missing so it begs the question of how boring the other stuff was if this is what they left in. Someone mentioned that a bunch of the cutscenes were actually cut for time, so I guess on most legal documentation it counts as having been edited, but that's not really what I mean. There's more to editing than just "it's shorter," like, you even kind of said it, they cut out a bunch of poo poo but the stuff that got left in is sometimes less concise for it. Whatever alterations were made to the script between opening the word processor and the game's release are to editing what a glass of scalding water is to a sous vide cooker.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 22:29
|
|
|
For what it's worth, the voice clips for the unimplemented cutscenes are all present in the game's data folder as OGG files just lying there for you to take a listen, so you can get a clearer idea of what, exactly, got cut. Oh, and the game's out on Wii U now, so I guess they can get back to working on the DLC full-time.
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 22:32
|
|
|
To tie the Spyro the Dragon tangent back into the thread, this game kinda reminds me of that series even though the gameplay is completely different. Despite being a perfect example of the "Mascots with 'Tude" genre on paper, Spyro the Dragon had a lot of soft visual elements especially in the second and third game (clouds, fairies, sparkles, rainbows).
|
|
#
?
Oct 1, 2015 22:37
|
|
|
EDIT: wrong goddamned thread. So on topic, I'm still glad I bought and played this game multiple times despite all the talked about plot issues, and endgame "From Kirby to Ninja Gaiden" jump in level difficulty. Section Z fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Oct 2, 2015 |
|
#
?
Oct 2, 2015 00:10
|
|
|
For everyone that thinks the story is "tolerable", this update is for you.  
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2015 18:49
|
|
|
Both sections of this stage have probably my favorite music in the entire game. I could listen to it again and again. Also, the scene with the pink flowers is what I was referring to about an obvious cut stage. You can even see spikes! mycot fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Oct 10, 2015 |
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2015 18:56
|
|
|
God the voice acting for this game is sooo bad. Some of them sound like they're recording in a tunnel.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2015 18:59
|
|
|
mycot posted:Also, the scene with the pink flowers is what I was referring to about an obvious cut stage. You can even see spikes! That stage even has its music straight up on the official soundtrack. I think it was even sort of playable on really old builds of the game? I can't find it digging through on newer versions so I presume it got cut fairly early on the development cycle.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2015 19:05
|
|
|
"The cutscenes in this game aren't for me, but at least their pretty short...uhh "I think this stage almost made up for that bizarre pacing.
|
|
#
?
Oct 10, 2015 20:18
|
|
|
SuccinctAndPunchy posted:That stage even has its music straight up on the official soundtrack. I think it was even sort of playable on really old builds of the game? I can't find it digging through on newer versions so I presume it got cut fairly early on the development cycle.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2015 05:15
|
|
|
Yeah it's pretty clear Rage Ravine (the pink stage) was supposed to be there in the middle, thus the overly long cutscene, but we didn't need all that wonderful "character building" either way. If you're curious how much was cut / changed throughout development, you can check out the game's old videos and beta reviews. mycot posted:Both sections of this stage have probably my favorite music in the entire game. I could listen to it again and again. It's a shame it doesn't loop smoothly for some reason.  Edit: Just noticed one of the voice clips in the cutscene doesn't get picked up by FRAPS, so I edited it in myself. SupSuper fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Oct 11, 2015 |
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2015 15:45
|
|
|
I may have mentioned this already, but that cooties scene was actually supposed to go on for a fair bit longer while they discussed their former families. Carol's thinking about her sister, Milla's looking for her lost parents, Lilac and Carol adopt Milla as their foster sister, hearfelt poo poo. Strife thought mentioning Carol's sister but never referring to her again would be a plothole of some sort, so he cut it off at the cooties line for time... which frankly makes the scene even more superfluous than it was to begin with. I did ask him to include the rest in Milla's version of the scene, since it applies more to her than the other two, but hell if I know if that'll happen.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2015 16:54
|
|
|
Having spent the last...what, three pages or so talking about all the poo poo wrong with this game one thing I do want to praise is that GalaxyTrail actually did a pretty good job with attention to detail regarding animation and visuals. Not only is there the special idle animation near the disco balls, if you idle near one of the benches you see around this level (and, if I recall, nowhere else) the girls will actually sit on them; the only other place this sprite shows up is the menu for the target-breaking minigame. Whatever you think of the visual style the animation is very well done, and they even have (exceptionally silly) animations to account for the fact that sometimes Carol is on a motorcycle in weird circumstances. Writing and voice acting? 4/10. Animation? Thumbs up bro.
|
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2015 04:49
|
|
|
Dr. Buttass posted:Not only is there the special idle animation near the disco balls, if you idle near one of the benches you see around this level (and, if I recall, nowhere else) the girls will actually sit on them; the only other place this sprite shows up is the menu for the target-breaking minigame. Paul.Power fucked around with this message at 08:12 on Oct 12, 2015 |
|
#
?
Oct 12, 2015 08:05
|
|
|
16 minute cutscene in a 2D platformer? That's some Kojima poo poo right there. It really makes me wonder how self-aware the devs were about it: on one hand, there's the skip cutscene option, on the other, someone obviously spent a lot of time on that script. "Robots and aliens aren't gonna slow a dragon down!" is basically this game in a nutshell, it's a 10 year old's dream come true. anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 07:36 on Oct 13, 2015 |
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2015 07:33
|
|
|
I couldn't watch the cutscene video this time. I started, and it just... dragged... and dragged... and stupid poo poo happened, and then my resolve gave out. I give up. Gameplay still looks awesome. I kinda wish there was a higher speed requirement for walking up walls though. As is, it looks too easy.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2015 07:39
|
|
|
Iunnrais posted:I kinda wish there was a higher speed requirement for walking up walls though. As is, it looks too easy. There's absolutely no speed requirement for walking up walls and it's one of those things that seems weird at first blush but at this point I'm convinced the game would kinda break if you couldn't do that, or the very least you'd kill the flow of gameplay waiting for your meter to recharge to generate enough speed a lot more if nothing else. It feels pretty weird when you first figure that out but the more I fiddle with it the more I think it was a considered choice rather than just the game's physics being bizarre.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2015 10:11
|
|
|
anilEhilated posted:16 minute cutscene in a 2D platformer? That's some Kojima poo poo right there. It really makes me wonder how self-aware the devs were about it: on one hand, there's the skip cutscene option, on the other, someone obviously spent a lot of time on that script.
|
|
#
?
Oct 13, 2015 17:25
|
|
|
This is a good time as any to introduce the new character, since I have no clue where this level fits into the progression: At least there's no story this time around. ~~spooky~~ SupSuper fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Nov 1, 2015 |
|
#
?
Oct 31, 2015 23:58
|
|
|
Come to think of it, rabbits are also very fond of digging, probably more so than dogs.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2015 00:11
|
|
|
The other day there was an update for this game. Turns out the Torque DLC (who's supposed to play as a walking Gunstar Heroes homage) now has a release date for December. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2015 00:18
|
|
|
Paul.Power posted:Come to think of it, rabbits are also very fond of digging, probably more so than dogs. I don't know what to believe any more.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2015 13:45
|
|
|
mycot posted:The other day there was an update for this game. Turns out the Torque DLC (who's supposed to play as a walking Gunstar Heroes homage) now has a release date for December. I've seen several people suggest it's after Sky Battalion and before Jade Creek, which sort of makes sense given the background graphics for one of the cutscenes in-between those stages look pretty similar to Aqua Tunnel's, and the plot has Milla running off to do something off-screen - but then, the stage is laid out like a tutorial for Milla, which wouldn't make sense four stages into the game.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2015 20:34
|
|
|
Shadow Hog posted:Also Milla's story, which, at the very least, would answer just where the hell Aqua Tunnel is supposed to go.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2015 21:30
|
|
|
SupSuper posted:and judging by the new trailer Spade is also in Aqua Tunnel?? So yeah, confusion abound. Milla can't bypass the water streams that knock you back. Spade can with his flash step thing, it was designed for the pair of them from the start, there's a fair few bits of the level Milla just flat out can't get to that Spade can. Also aqua tunnel and trap hideout seem to be geographically close to each other since they're both in the sewers in that general vicinity so him physically being there isn't that unlikely either even in the conceit of this game's silly plot.  Shadow Hog posted:I've seen several people suggest it's after Sky Battalion and before Jade Creek, story-wise it almost certainly goes there and I find it hard to conceive of an alternate explanation. I'd imagine it to be more of a matter of how they're going to handle the level order rather than where it actually takes place chronologically. SuccinctAndPunchy fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Nov 1, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2015 21:52
|
|
|
Paul.Power posted:Come to think of it, rabbits are also very fond of digging, probably more so than dogs. Bassets are meant for hunting rabbits.  I feel like I could tolerate the cutscenes if they just didn't have voice acting. This feels like a "press a to quickly get through the dialogue" kind of plot.
|
|
#
?
Nov 1, 2015 23:22
|
|
|
"got plenty of rubbers, the doctor did" -paul and no one said a word
|
|
#
?
Nov 11, 2015 22:06
|
|
|
Back to your regularly-scheduled dramatic tone shifts.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2015 21:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 3, 2024 13:17 |
|
|
I'll give this game credit and say that the boss fights so far are better than any I've seen in Sonic game, then again Sonic bosses are absolutely terrible.
|
|
#
?
Nov 17, 2015 21:46
|
|