|
Jerry Cotton posted:Well, no more Ligurposting for a while. 
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 10:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 12:06 |
|
|
New rumours say Sipilä's ready to go down to 15 districts. No one gets what they want, nothing will be gained, and everyone will praise their great ability to compromise and work together.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 11:24
|
|
|
Ligur posted:What the gently caress, I was just going to our monthly shooting club meet and suddenly there's police all over the place telling me I can't park my car (if it contains weapons) near a VOK. You have guns? Never thought I'd say this but it looks like we need tougher gun laws.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 11:31
|
|
|
His Divine Shadow posted:You have guns? Never thought I'd say this but it looks like we need tougher gun laws. Guns, drugs, knives, hoes. Most of that stuff is already banned by the law forum moderator so don't worry. Having more laws will not limit their availability to people who didn't care about them in the first place. And isn't that the dream?
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 11:38
|
|
|
What does it mean, in practice, if there is more or less of these SOTE areas? If I get mauled by a bear, will they deliver me to some hospital 500km away instead of the one that is 1km away just because I live in SOTE area X so I must go to hospital X that is 500km away because that is my designated hospital? Will the money all these SOTE things operate on be distributed so that all small and medium sized poo poo gets closed down and then there will be some 10 locations in total in the entire nation where these services will be provided?
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 11:45
|
|
|
The idea is that every region gives all your health services. So illnesses that are expensive to treat but hit only a microscopic part of the population are more expensive to treat if the area that has to arrange the service is small. Basically, not every little township, or not even every municipality, or not even every maakunta needs a doctor who specializes in rare illness X. If you have five sote regions, you may need ten of them, two each, if you have 18, you'd need eighteen of them. This is an abstraction but you get the idea. The other point is economies of scale. If you have a large soteregion with large central hospitals, you can treat people needing hospital treatment more efficiently. The other side of the coin is that a sote region distributes money and decides on health care, so it needs to have elected people running it. The more sote regions you have, the better people will be represented. However, the experts agree that 12 regions is more than enough to guarantee adequate representation. Kepu wants more, because the more sote regions there are, the larger percentage of sote council seats are in kepu control. Instead of just reforming the health services, they also want to create an additional layer of provincial government that local kepu members will be elected to in droves. It's the same logic as municipal mergers, but writ large. The reason the kepu elite has put its foot down on Sipilä is because they want "jobs for the boys", as Yes, Minister put it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 11:52
|
|
|
Specialised medical care is resource intensive, expensive, and the treatment outcomes are better in bigger units. If you get mauled by a bear you should be glad if they haul you to a big hospital with competent doctors.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 11:52
|
|
|
Yle ran the numbers and if there were five sote regions, three of them would be dominated by Kokoomus; if you had eighteen, nine of them would be dominated by Kepu (and one by RKP!). That's the whole issue in a nutshell. Kokoomus's original program called for five, so fifteen is three times that. That's why the 18 was a hard pill to swallow, when they'd already come halfway and agreed to 12. Edit: Soini says there's no compromise proposal as leaked by Susanna Koski from Kokoomus, so we might still be able to see this poo poo run into the ground today. Edit 2: I checked and currently there are 20 sairaanhoitopiiris, so basically the kepu proposal is not really a major difference to that at all. The only difference is the funding model, since right now the SHPs are funded by municipality joint organizations (HUS is a great example) so basically every SHP and its member municipalities duke it out on how the SHP is funded by them. Sulphagnist fucked around with this message at 12:06 on Nov 6, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 11:55
|
|
|
First I was sure the government was about to fall. Then came word of more negotiations. But now those seem to have failed so I'm going to say it's not going to work out.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 12:34
|
|
|
A loud "Ha ha!" at anyone who thinks anything gets done in current Finland apart from moving a portion of public spending here, another portion there, and lowering taxes 1% there but hiking them 2% here. This nation is paralyzed. Only total collapse will change anything and as long as banks loan as money it will take time. It will come but not quite yet 
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 12:37
|
|
|
Oldsmobile posted:First I was sure the government was about to fall. Then came word of more negotiations. But now those seem to have failed so I'm going to say it's not going to work out.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 12:38
|
|
|
Gonna be funny if the can gets kicked down to tomorrow anyway, just like Kokoomus requested and Sipilä said nope.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 13:05
|
|
|
Looks like we are headed to an early election at the moment, since Sipilä has shot down rumours of a compromise, and the potential new partners have announced they'll join only after a new election.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 13:15
|
|
|
Snap elections are going to benefit established parties with deep pockets and Soini might be able to talk his way out of the abyss so even in new elections there's an opportunity for lovely things.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 13:22
|
|
|
The opportunity for lovely things is a given. This is SOUMI!
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 13:55
|
|
|
Ligur posted:A loud "Ha ha!" at anyone who thinks anything gets done in current Finland apart from moving a portion of public spending here, another portion there, and lowering taxes 1% there but hiking them 2% here. we are hosed
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 14:18
|
|
|
They said they'd make Finland more like America.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 14:31
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 14:33
|
|
|
why would there be new elections, instead of just a new government? when was the last time finland had elections in the middle of a vaalikausi?
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 14:39
|
|
|
Hogge Wild posted:why would there be new elections, instead of just a new government? According to YLE, 1975.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 14:42
|
|
|
I'm not ending the thread before the #hallituskriisi is solved one way or another, sorry.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 14:42
|
|
|
Stefu posted:I'm not ending the thread before the #hallituskriisi is solved one way or another, sorry. Don't end the thread anyway, you loving commie hippie. It's not our fault you don't score with chicks so don't take your frustration out on us.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 14:44
|
|
|
Hogge Wild posted:why would there be new elections, instead of just a new government? kinda hard to form a new goverment without kokoomus. Sdp, vihreät ja vasemmistoliitto suostuvat hallitukseen vain uusien vaalien kautta
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 14:45
|
|
|
The math gets very difficult if you discount SDP, Greens and VAS. And you ought unless they're bitten by the stupid bug, because new elections will be excellent for them. They have zero incentive to hitch their wagons to Sipilä for the remainder of the term. Rhetorically speaking any claims of "well it's your patriotic duty to govern!" can be pretty handily disclaimed by pointing out that the PS voters have been stabbed in the back and kyllä kansa tietää and so on. You just turn Soini's appeal to the people against him. Without SDP, Greens and VAS, and without kokoomus, the only remaining option is the comedy option of Kesk, Pers, KD and RKP (oh yeah, and RKP and Pers in the same coalition, that'll work) with 101 seats (not including the speaker). That's not the sort of coalition that can do the things Sipilä wants to accomplish. If there's no feasible combination of parties to create a new government, elections are the way out. It's entirely possible for there still to be some other solution like Kesk, Pers, Kok disbanding and then immediately having new negotiations to create a "new" coalition but that seems like a waste of time if they can't agree on sote presently either.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 14:45
|
|
|
Hogge Wild posted:why would there be new elections, instead of just a new government? Andy Slope has already said that SDP won't go into government without new elections, have fun trying to form a non-KokPersKusta majority government without them. And I really don't see a minority government getting sote through. e;fb
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 14:47
|
|
|
A minority government is one of those comedy options but I really don't see it happening. Everyone is at least okay with new elections except perussuomalaiset, and everyone knows this, so they have no bargaining position whatsoever. Soini gambled on selling grandma, sitting out the term and either weathering the blows with something to show for his supporters by 2019, or just retiring straight from the back of the ministerial Audi. This gamble seems to be backfiring spectacularly.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 14:50
|
|
|
They're just toying with us, actually.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 15:28
|
|
|
Jerry Cotton posted:They're just toying with us, actually. Yeah despite all evidence of incompetence I still have this voice in the back of my mind saying this is all some incredible kabuki theatre for the benefit of the two parties' bases and the inevitable horrible solution is one that Stubb and Sipilä have been angling for since day one, they just need window dressing to sell it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 15:54
|
|
|
Someone told them they should probably come up with some new antics to make news so some bored journalist won't write some more about the fact that they're going to deprecate the constitution.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 16:03
|
|
|
http://yle.fi/uutiset/kiistan_taustalla_valta_18_sote-aluetta_olisi_keskustalle_jattipotti/8436385 Cities VS Lande, Kepu & PS VS Cock? Also, a look at our retarded recent governments, and how this one is the most retarded yet: http://yle.fi/uutiset/nyt_pelataan_upporikasta_tai_rutikoyhaa__aiemmat_hallitusdraamat_kalpenevat/8436635 DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 16:16 on Nov 6, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 16:10
|
|
|
Stefu posted:I'm not ending the thread before the #hallituskriisi is solved one way or another, sorry. there was a good opportunity to make a new thread before the last elections what reason is there now? that is, if there's not going to be new elections Rappaport posted:According to YLE, 1975. Mulli posted:kinda hard to form a new goverment without kokoomus. thanks Ratpick posted:Does anyone still have the KokPersKusta picture someone posted after the last election? Might be fun to have for the sake of posterity if the government goes belly up. this one? Antti posted:The math gets very difficult if you discount SDP, Greens and VAS. And you ought unless they're bitten by the stupid bug, because new elections will be excellent for them. They have zero incentive to hitch their wagons to Sipilä for the remainder of the term. Rhetorically speaking any claims of "well it's your patriotic duty to govern!" can be pretty handily disclaimed by pointing out that the PS voters have been stabbed in the back and kyllä kansa tietää and so on. You just turn Soini's appeal to the people against him. iirc, persut haven't made any attempts to drop pakkoruotsi this vaalikausi, so isn't that good enough for rkp?
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 16:26
|
|
|
Weeeell, let's just say it'd be amazing to see a woman MP from RKP as the Minister of the Interior again. I'm sure RKP and PS would find a lot of common ground on immigration.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 16:52
|
|
|
Hogge Wild posted:this one? Someone made a new and improved one which integrated the "Kusta" part of Keskusta on it, but I might've found it somewhere else on the internet and just gotten confused. It was truly the height of class. Oh, there it is: 
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 17:14
|
|
|
I posted that here but I can't remember if I made it or stole it from somewhere 
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 17:25
|
|
|
anyway, it belongs in a museum
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 17:34
|
|
|
Anyway, it says a lot about Sipilä's poor leader skills that this whole situation just keeps going on and on. A skilled leader knows when to quit while he's ahead.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 18:00
|
|
|
I have the sinking feeling we don't have any politicians available who would be up to any task at all.
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 18:09
|
|
|
loloilololo 18 zone solution is most likely unconstitutional
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 18:41
|
|
|
Stefu posted:I'm not ending the thread before the #hallituskriisi is solved one way or another, sorry. Stefu pettää aina!
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 19:24
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 26, 2024 12:06 |
|
|
Teksti-TV has discovered the true source of political power in this country:
|
|
#
?
Nov 6, 2015 22:39
|
|