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Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

Hadlock posted:

Closest I've been to NYC in 17 years was Newark airport almost four years ago, I have no desire to go back (that is unless someone offers me a job out there and I can find a place for under $1900!)

What do you guys think about these, general comments, etc.

$2500/850 sq ft - http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/5268766803.html
$2795/650 sq ft(?) - http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/5258619434.html

Bad neighborhood, overpriced? Too close to freeway (noise) too far from public transit?
The first rule of San Francisco apartment hunting is that the owner is going to get multiple offers and all of them are going to be above the asking price.

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Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004

Oh gently caress. By how much?

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


Hadlock posted:

Closest I've been to NYC in 17 years was Newark airport almost four years ago, I have no desire to go back (that is unless someone offers me a job out there and I can find a place for under $1900!)

What do you guys think about these, general comments, etc.

$2500/850 sq ft - http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/5268766803.html
$2795/650 sq ft(?) - http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/5258619434.html

Bad neighborhood, overpriced? Too close to freeway (noise) too far from public transit?

Those are respectively right next to the Potrero Hill projects and in the Tenderloin. Neither of those is actually in the worst part of town, but that's only because Hunter's Point is really, really bad. If you can sleep through gunfire and cries for help, you might be able to make those work.

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

Hadlock posted:

Oh gently caress. By how much?
I wasn't able to find information on rentals, but on sales, someone on Quora said:

"In March 2014, 44% of homes sold in SF went for more than 10% above asking price, and 21% went for more than 20% above asking."

Steve French
Sep 8, 2003

Vulture Culture posted:

I wasn't able to find information on rentals, but on sales, someone on Quora said:

"In March 2014, 44% of homes sold in SF went for more than 10% above asking price, and 21% went for more than 20% above asking."

That appears to be about home sales, which I would not really expect to be the same as rentals in that respect.

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

Steve French posted:

That appears to be about home sales, which I would not really expect to be the same as rentals in that respect.
The pricing pressures exist for the same reason: there's more demand to live there than there are homes to accommodate everyone. Everything is a bidding war. I'm just having trouble finding the numbers on rent, because that information isn't public record.

sailormoon
Jun 28, 2014

fighting evil by moonlight
winning love by daylight


I was hunting for places to rent with my friends a few months ago in San Francisco and every landlord made us enter a bidding war with every other prospective tenant. That's just my experience, but I'm sure much hasn't changed. We would usually bid +$200/mo on the listed rent price and still lose. :(

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004

Yeah, SF is literally more expensive than Manhattan now. It's absolutely insane. At least housing prices are highest where people are producing.. things.. Instead of just shuffling around wealth, right... Right?

I guess the other big draw of SF is that you're in the epicenter of the global tech revolution, and there's no better place to build contacts and network than SF in this industry. Some (1) will strike it rich in SF and settle here, others (2) will become leaders in their sub-field and retire as a senior such and such at some B-level company in the Midwest living in a6 bedroom house on 4 acres. Others (3) will have made the wrong decision and flame out in a heap of debt to somewhere like Nebraska trying to avoid freezing to death in their studio apartment. Here's hoping that I'm in category 1 or 2 and not 3.

I'm interested in riding this out for three years and seeing where it takes me. If the market is good, get a bigger place and settle down here, if not, get a bigger place in the Midwest and settle down.

Steve French
Sep 8, 2003

Vulture Culture posted:

The pricing pressures exist for the same reason: there's more demand to live there than there are homes to accommodate everyone. Everything is a bidding war. I'm just having trouble finding the numbers on rent, because that information isn't public record.

Yeah, I wasn't meaning to disagree that there are bidding wars for rentals; there absolutely are. I just wouldn't go so far as to assume that the percentage of sales with a bidding war is equal to that of rentals, or that the average amount over asking is the same. It may be more!

Shrimpy
May 18, 2004

Sir, I'm going to need to see your ticket.

Steve French posted:

Yeah, I wasn't meaning to disagree that there are bidding wars for rentals; there absolutely are. I just wouldn't go so far as to assume that the percentage of sales with a bidding war is equal to that of rentals, or that the average amount over asking is the same. It may be more!

One thing worth mentioning is that as much as people say "I would totally just live in Oakland for half the price", housing prices are skyrocketing here too. In Rockridge every realtor advertises two things: 1) how many offers they got on a house and 2) how much above list it was. For example, listed for 1.2m, sold for 1.7m along with billboards for houses that are about to go up for sale.

If possible you'll want to avoid any kind of "open house" for a rental since those are basically just invitations to bid on rent. I lucked out with a landlord who just didn't want to deal with it, but that's becoming rarer and rarer in the nice parts of Oakland.

Shrimpy fucked around with this message at 09:11 on Oct 28, 2015

pr0zac
Jan 18, 2004

~*lukecagefan69*~


Pillbug

Hadlock posted:

Closest I've been to NYC in 17 years was Newark airport almost four years ago, I have no desire to go back (that is unless someone offers me a job out there and I can find a place for under $1900!)

What do you guys think about these, general comments, etc.

$2500/850 sq ft - http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/5268766803.html
$2795/650 sq ft(?) - http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sfc/apa/5258619434.html

Bad neighborhood, overpriced? Too close to freeway (noise) too far from public transit?

How the poo poo does a place in the Tenderloin (the second one) cost $2800 now what the christ. I mean, the fears of the TL are definitely blown out of proportion, I lived there for a year and loved the area and the people in it, but I moved there cause it was cheap at the time.

That said, I lived 3 blocks from that place (in the bad direction) 6 years ago when there had been even less gentrifying in the area, and it was great. Basically the TL is where the homeless people go when they "go home" so you'll see people sitting around on the street talking with their friends and doing (and buying) drugs and less of them busking for money. I had a lot of really weird and hilarious conversations while living there.

Also :lol:ing at the idea of having your own place in San Francisco, wanting to have a social life, and expecting to have any money left over at $125k. Especially enough for a sailboat. Your calculations also don't include the couple thousand and change you're gonna spend yearly on public transit costs. A Caltrain monthly pass from zone 1 (SF) to zone 3 (MV) is $179.00, so $2148 a year.

Do you know people who live out here already? Will you have an existing social structure? If not, where do most of your new coworkers live?

JawnV6
Jul 4, 2004

So hot ...
Orthogonal to the other concerns, the Potrero Hill one is at the top of the hill. To get to the 22 it's a few hundred vertical feet easy. How are your calves looking?

Plorkyeran
Mar 22, 2007

To Escape The Shackles Of The Old Forums, We Must Reject The Tribal Negativity He Endorsed
They'll look great after a few months of living there.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004

I am a pretty avid biker, I went up to and then down Lombard street/Russian Hill on my lovely rental hybrid without having to walk the bike, except for half a block on Hyde Street. That's after biking across the bridge etc. Dallas is flat but my legs seem up to the task.

pr0zac posted:

Also :lol:ing at the idea of having your own place in San Francisco, wanting to have a social life, and expecting to have any money left over at $125k. Especially enough for a sailboat. Your calculations also don't include the couple thousand and change you're gonna spend yearly on public transit costs. A Caltrain monthly pass from zone 1 (SF) to zone 3 (MV) is $179.00, so $2148 a year.

Do you know people who live out here already? Will you have an existing social structure? If not, where do most of your new coworkers live?

Can you break down your expenses in to macro blocks? I'm curious coming from someone who's lived there a couple of years

I know a couple of people out in SF, and it sounds like half the engineering team lives in the city so that's a plus. Most of the younger employees on the far side of the building live in MV it sounds like.

I'll need to figure in caltrain prices yeah. One guy just rents cars when he needs them for camping etc @ ~$50 a day; after insurance, parking and normal maintenance, renting ad hoc sounds like a pretty good idea. We talked about zip car but renting seems to make more sense.

New Yorp New Yorp
Jul 18, 2003

Only in Kenya.
Pillbug

Hadlock posted:

One guy just rents cars when he needs them for camping etc @ ~$50 a day; after insurance, parking and normal maintenance, renting ad hoc sounds like a pretty good idea. We talked about zip car but renting seems to make more sense.

Depends on how bad traffic typically is in the area. Renting cars sucks, it's an unfamiliar vehicle and they usually run like poo poo. I rent cars for work when traveling, or when traveling locally to a location that's over a certain distance threshold (past 80 round-trip miles or so, it's actually cheaper for the company and doesn't incur wear and tear on my personal vehicles) and I always hate it.

fritz
Jul 26, 2003

Ithaqua posted:

Depends on how bad traffic typically is in the area. Renting cars sucks, it's an unfamiliar vehicle and they usually run like poo poo. I rent cars for work when traveling, or when traveling locally to a location that's over a certain distance threshold (past 80 round-trip miles or so, it's actually cheaper for the company and doesn't incur wear and tear on my personal vehicles) and I always hate it.

It depends a lot on who you rent them from and where you rent them at, I've gotten dozens of rental cars and only a couple have been unforgivably bad (one had something messed up with the alignment, one was reeking with cleaning fluid (got that one replaced), and one was a dodge caliber).

Drastic Actions
Apr 7, 2009

FUCK YOU!
GET PUMPED!
Nap Ghost

Hadlock posted:

I'll need to figure in caltrain prices yeah. One guy just rents cars when he needs them for camping etc @ ~$50 a day; after insurance, parking and normal maintenance, renting ad hoc sounds like a pretty good idea. We talked about zip car but renting seems to make more sense.

I'm surprised a place like that would not give money for transit as a benefit. At my job I can claim up to $200 a month for transportation costs (I use around $80~ for a monthly T pass). Kinda lame that they would not help pay for that.

Flat Daddy
Dec 3, 2014

by Nyc_Tattoo
In SF and the peninsula companies over a certain size have to give you a minimum public transit benefit. For me in the peninsula it was $80/mo.

borkencode
Nov 10, 2004
How hard is it to jump professionally from one language to another? I feel like I got onto the PHP railroad because I'd messed around with it in college, and now 7 years later I'd like to get off. I like working with Python, but my professional experience is limited to writing a handful of small scripts to do random tasks. No real big projects to show for it.

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

borkencode posted:

How hard is it to jump professionally from one language to another? I feel like I got onto the PHP railroad because I'd messed around with it in college, and now 7 years later I'd like to get off. I like working with Python, but my professional experience is limited to writing a handful of small scripts to do random tasks. No real big projects to show for it.
The key questions are things like: what have you actually developed? How do you approach testing and quality management? How do you work with others? What kind of development methodologies or styles have your team used?

PHP and Python are similar enough (compared to, say, PHP and Erlang) that it most likely won't hurt you long-term. Lots of big companies like Facebook and Etsy are still PHP-first with their development. Getting another job hinges more on your experience with Joel Test factors than anything else.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004

Huh I put in my two weeks notice at my current job and they made a very generous counter offer and I turned that down, which got the attention of the director, so I got 90 minutes of 1-on-1 face time with him today (which is unheard of) where I got to air my grievances and my proposed solutions to them which he was on board with. Apparently, also I've made a very good impression on the new CIO the couple of times I've been in the elevator with him and the handful of meetings I've been in with him where I am a very vocal straight shooter on problem issues. The CIO is very keen not to loose me. So they're looking at a ~40% raise + sizable retention bonus. Also it sounds like there's a hint of ego where the director doesn't want west coast companies stealing talent away from a big company with money. Also we're in the middle of a huge 2-year merger and I'm the key guy in a key group that needs about 18 months to train my replacement.

Neither company knows how much they're bidding against and my current employer doesn't even know who they're bidding against. I appear to hold all the cards. This is kind of awesome. :pcgaming:

Hadlock fucked around with this message at 06:55 on Nov 6, 2015

Bruegels Fuckbooks
Sep 14, 2004

Now, listen - I know the two of you are very different from each other in a lot of ways, but you have to understand that as far as Grandpa's concerned, you're both pieces of shit! Yeah. I can prove it mathematically.

Hadlock posted:

Huh I put in my two weeks notice at my current job and they made a very generous counter offer and I turned that down, which got the attention of the director, so I got 90 minutes of 1-on-1 face time with him today (which is unheard of) where I got to air my grievances and my proposed solutions to them which he was on board with. Apparently, also I've made a very good impression on the new CIO the couple of times I've been in the elevator with him and the handful of meetings I've been in with him where I am a very vocal straight shooter on problem issues. The CIO is very keen not to loose me. So they're looking at a ~40% raise + sizable retention bonus. Also it sounds like there's a hint of ego where the director doesn't want west coast companies stealing talent away from a big company with money. Also we're in the middle of a huge 2-year merger and I'm the key guy in a key group that needs about 18 months to train my replacement.

Neither company knows how much they're bidding against and my current employer doesn't even know who they're bidding against. I appear to hold all the cards. This is kind of awesome. :pcgaming:



Man, that's the thing about counter-offers - sometimes they offer you a positively ridiculous amount of money to not leave. It's also not like you're immediately setting yourself to get fired once they actually find a replacement (like the conventional wisdom says) - they're probably perfectly willing to let you work at un-loving your workplace, listen to your suggestions, etc.

However... you could just work somewhere where things aren't hosed up. It'll be a lot less stressful. You wanted to quit for a reason, and that reason isn't going to go away just because you're getting more money.

kitten smoothie
Dec 29, 2001

Bruegels Fuckbooks posted:

Man, that's the thing about counter-offers - sometimes they offer you a positively ridiculous amount of money to not leave. It's also not like you're immediately setting yourself to get fired once they actually find a replacement (like the conventional wisdom says) - they're probably perfectly willing to let you work at un-loving your workplace, listen to your suggestions, etc.

However... you could just work somewhere where things aren't hosed up. It'll be a lot less stressful. You wanted to quit for a reason, and that reason isn't going to go away just because you're getting more money.

Yeah, I thought the conventional wisdom was that even if they don't fire you, you'll be pissed off again six months down the line and will start looking again anyway.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me
Maybe they think you are great, and have just woken up to the truth of this, but odds are they are scared and don't want some timeline affected, so they are throwing money at you to make the fear go away. Once that's gone, you'll likely start losing traction on the things you want fixed and will become frustrated again. And maybe they try firing you now because you are a) disloyal and b) paid 40% more than they think they can get someone to replace you and/or c) are bitter that you could make them so scared in the first place.

good jovi
Dec 11, 2000

'm pro-dickgirl, and I VOTE!

But in the meantime, you're making some decent money.

pr0zac
Jan 18, 2004

~*lukecagefan69*~


Pillbug
I'd argue the common wisdom is the common wisdom because it should be your default choice in that situation if you have no indication you should be choosing differently. There are definitely times when entertaining a counter-offer makes sense. It should be pretty clear when thats the case though and if its not you should err towards the null hypothesis.

Bruegels Fuckbooks
Sep 14, 2004

Now, listen - I know the two of you are very different from each other in a lot of ways, but you have to understand that as far as Grandpa's concerned, you're both pieces of shit! Yeah. I can prove it mathematically.

Skandranon posted:

Maybe they think you are great, and have just woken up to the truth of this, but odds are they are scared and don't want some timeline affected, so they are throwing money at you to make the fear go away. Once that's gone, you'll likely start losing traction on the things you want fixed and will become frustrated again. And maybe they try firing you now because you are a) disloyal and b) paid 40% more than they think they can get someone to replace you and/or c) are bitter that you could make them so scared in the first place.
The conventional wisdom assumes that you're working for people who can actually think strategically, and that's rarely the case in corporate america nowadays.

I took a counter offer that was contingent on paid relocation to a different state - two weeks after I moved, my boss quits. My boss's boss (the guy who got me the counter offer) also quit. I changed departments, and that boss got fired. I got another boss. That one got fired.... In two years, I've had seven different managers and no one who remembers that I was disloyal is still with the company, and I managed to pocket like 50k in bonus, a full paid relocation to a cheaper area with half the cost of living of the place I was living before, and a 40k raise.

However, even after that, I'm STILL not sure it was worth it because of how much work I've had to do in the last two years.

Doctor w-rw-rw-
Jun 24, 2008

Bruegels Fuckbooks posted:

two weeks after I moved, my boss quits. My boss's boss (the guy who got me the counter offer) also quit. I changed departments, and that boss got fired. I got another boss. That one got fired....

:psyduck:

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004

Current office came back with an offer to transition me over to their primary software vendor (we have a weird agreement where our software vendor ships us the compiled code and the Visual Studio projects for all releases so we can recompile anything to make it work with our own mostly-similar doppelganger system). That way their developer company gets me (there's only about 100 technical people in the world that work on our product and they're expanding) and my current employer still retains access to me when poo poo goes wrong. Which happens frequently. There's about 12 truly competent technical people that have deep knowledge of how their software works. Current company is still going to make me an offer to stay internal though, so now I have two companies bidding on me against my move to SF.

I'm thinking about asking for back pay to Jan 1 at whatever rate the software company picks me up at, as that was what prompted the whole thing to begin with. The worst that can happen is they say no and I walk over to a better job anyways. And also a retention bonus so that I have insurance that they're not going to jettison me when they get their big project done.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


I'm thinking about what it is I want out of my next dev job (I've got 2-3 weeks left at this one) and I'm thinking that what I want is support and growth. That's what I really lacked in this one: I wasn't given new and interesting opportunities, even when I asked for them; I was told I would receive mentorship, guidance, and professional development, and I got ignored instead; when I tried to put forth my opinions and ideas, I was shot down or told to stop being aggressive. This wasn't just a case of "put in your shitwork dues" - because that's all I ever got, and everything I had hoped would come in the job never did, and that's a huge disappointment. So, I'm thinking that my next job has to have me:

1. Calling some sort of shots, or at least having some sort of freedom and independence,
2. Working on new and interesting things, and having the mobility to move on,
3. Receiving support in what I do, understanding of how early I am in my career, and some sort of respect that I know what I'm doing and am being given that chance.

I'm still assigned tickets as part of my team. I still get things like "holy poo poo our customers' subscriptions didn't get renewed" which is annoying when I'm in the middle of interviews and phone screens. It's really hard to care at this point, and I hate how jaded I feel and how little I care about the work this company gives (or does not give) to me.

:sigh: Not long now. I'm in the final stages for a few companies, and I'm likely to accept an offer by the end of the week at earliest, and end of next week at latest.

I hope things get better.

JawnV6
Jul 4, 2004

So hot ...

Pollyanna posted:

1. Calling some sort of shots, or at least having some sort of freedom and independence,
2. Working on new and interesting things, and having the mobility to move on,
3. Receiving support in what I do, understanding of how early I am in my career, and some sort of respect that I know what I'm doing and am being given that chance.
Here's some window dressing on how to phrase some of these in an interview:
"I've progressed beyond the entry level and can confidently handle the tasks that are assigned to me. I want to take on larger chunks of work and start to understand the objectives behind them rather than only engaging at the task level. My previous employer was fortunate enough to have a surplus of technical leadership and didn't have a path for me to grow into that and I'm looking for a place where I can demonstrate that confidence and grow into a technical leadership position."

Nobody's going to let you come in and start ordering others around on day one. It's all going to be task-oriented, at least for a few weeks while you get up to speed on the group's objectives. You want to express that you can handle that in a way that suggests you're barely suppressing a yawn and you're hungry for a chance to move up and offload some of the objective/task translation duties from management. Don't ever dog on previous employers in an interview, talk about how lucky they were to have sooooo many talented folks around that there just wasn't room for you to grow. A lot of places can't handle a mid->senior transition well and folks have no choice but to jump ship. Making it clear you're not looking for a few years of mid-level execution to pad out a resume but actually making that transition sets expectations on both sides.

You're probably past the point where that would help if you're in final rounds. But there's always a way to gussy up whatever you actually want or whatever actually happened to be more palatable.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


I got asked questions during today's interview that all ended up looping back to what's going on with my job right now, so I failed you there already. This is consuming me and turning me insane, I swear.

Skandranon
Sep 6, 2008
fucking stupid, dont listen to me

Pollyanna posted:

I got asked questions during today's interview that all ended up looping back to what's going on with my job right now, so I failed you there already. This is consuming me and turning me insane, I swear.

Of course they are going to ASK you about your current job and why you are leaving. You are supposed to LIE THROUGH YOUR TEETH and say they are great and you had a wonderful time there but you are interested in new opportunities blah blah blah.

JawnV6
Jul 4, 2004

So hot ...

Pollyanna posted:

I got asked questions during today's interview that all ended up looping back to what's going on with my job right now, so I failed you there already.
The worst thing that I would say about your situation is that it's unfortunate there isn't room for you to grow there. You can sneak in this wistfulness about it, like "gosh, what could've been! if only there was a leader-sized hole on this team I'd a been a star!" while cursing their children's children under your breath. There is no truth. There is only narrative.

The way you post here you're really good at covering a lot of angles on things, maybe just be more selective about which angles you're sharing in an interview. There's no reason a conversation about your current job has to be anything but a sunshine-soaked rainbowfest for unicorns.

Pollyanna posted:

This is consuming me and turning me insane, I swear.
Naw, c'mon, you were always like this ;)

a slime
Apr 11, 2005

JawnV6 posted:

There is no truth. There is only narrative.

Apply this to every aspect of your life and prosper. Occasionally stare up into the night sky and be consumed by existential dread.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004

JawnV6 posted:

There's no reason a conversation about your current job has to be anything but a sunshine-soaked rainbowfest for unicorns.

a slime posted:

Apply this to every aspect of your life and prosper. Occasionally stare up into the night sky and be consumed by existential dread.

Adulting 101. These two phrases should probably be printed in bold red lettering on the instruction manual to life.

Urit
Oct 22, 2010
Remote jobs. Let's talk about finding them.

I've got a few resources so far:

Stack Overflow careers seems to have a lot.
Angellist has a bunch because I like startups.
http://remoteok.io/ is a nice little aggregator.

Anyone have any other resources I should be looking at? Right now I'm in Arizona for the winter and I should probably get a job by the time I leave in February. I certainly don't want to move to San Francisco, so a lot of wild and wooly fun startup jobs are out, but remote seems like it might work okay.

Vulture Culture
Jul 14, 2003

I was never enjoying it. I only eat it for the nutrients.

Urit posted:

Remote jobs. Let's talk about finding them.

I've got a few resources so far:

Stack Overflow careers seems to have a lot.
Angellist has a bunch because I like startups.
http://remoteok.io/ is a nice little aggregator.

Anyone have any other resources I should be looking at? Right now I'm in Arizona for the winter and I should probably get a job by the time I leave in February. I certainly don't want to move to San Francisco, so a lot of wild and wooly fun startup jobs are out, but remote seems like it might work okay.
You nailed the big two. Beyond that, try Twitter (seriously).

Humphrey Appleby
Oct 30, 2013

Knowledge only means complicity in guilt; ignorance has a certain dignity.
I don't know if this site is good, but I see it mentioned occasionally for remote jobs: https://weworkremotely.com/

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Urit
Oct 22, 2010

Humphrey Appleby posted:

I don't know if this site is good, but I see it mentioned occasionally for remote jobs: https://weworkremotely.com/

Yeah, remote.io aggregates that one too a lot.

Vulture Culture posted:

You nailed the big two. Beyond that, try Twitter (seriously).

Holy poo poo, Twitter. I suppose #whateverrole #hiring #remote is what you'd search for? I really don't use Twitter except for joke accounts like @erowidrecruiter and @PHP_CEO.

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