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celewign posted:How would that game have ever worked in offline mode anyway? There's 400 billion stars. Even with procedural generation that would be a huge set of files. http://www.filfre.net/2013/12/elite/ 22K of game on a 32k computer, from a starting seed of six numbers they could create 282 trillion star systems but Bell and Braben agreed to settle for just eight galaxies, with a total of 2048 star systems to visit.
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Nov 17, 2015 10:41
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no_recall posted:Everyone who backed this game, is backing a internet series studio. Can they hire me to produce their next show, "Around the Verse in 42 Days"?
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Nov 17, 2015 10:43
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Unfunny Poster posted:Can they hire me to produce their next show, "Around the Verse in 42 Days"? You could ask that question in "10 for the Producers".
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Nov 17, 2015 10:45
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:an awesome sauce I can usually find it on there. Cholula is basically tailor-made for tacos/burritos/etc. Anytime you're combining a tortilla and ground beef/shredded chicken for authentic (Taco Bell style) cuisine , it's fantastic as a taco sauce. No real spice to it but a lot of good flavor. I got a bottle of ChileHead's Garlic Habanero hot sauce a couple years ago for Christmas. It's not sold around here though so I have to order it by the case. A lot of good flavor, some heat. Works fantastically with chicken and dumpling stew. I generally dump a shitload into queso dip to add heat and flavor and smooth out the cheese. Tabasco/Tapatio isn't really anything groundbreaking, but it goes really well in New England clam chowder and I'm constantly surprised at people who don't do this/have never tried it. Other hot sauces work adequately, but sauces with the same general flavor profile as Tabasco (like Tapatio) work best. Buffalo Wild Wings's main sauce line (Mild/Medium/Hot/etc) works as acceptable sauce for coating wings and also works surprisingly well with pork - basically, use it instead of BBQ sauce for pulled pork or for pork ribs. Giardiniera as a sandwich topping - depending on how far you are from Chicago, it might be hard to find but the basic idea is a bunch of different vegetables pickled together in oil/vinegar. Varies widely by vegetable mix and brand, YMMV.
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Nov 17, 2015 10:46
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AP posted:http://www.filfre.net/2013/12/elite/ Also, Elite 2/3 had half a billion stars (a 20 ly deep horizontal slice of the milky way) on a floppy diskette. Frontier wanted to make a multiplayer game from the start of the KS, offline was added during the campaign as a feature of the world with limited mechanics. I understand the reasons they gave for not being able to bring offline forward in the end (and they make sense), but FDEV hosed up the communication (they tend to do that, they are learning though) and it hurt them a lot. The real bummer about ED offline was the simple fact that community modding would make the game that much better as a direct Elite 2/3 single player sequel (stardreamer would be back as well as completely seamless traveling) and now there is no way for it to happen. Oh well..
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Nov 17, 2015 10:49
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no_recall posted:You could ask that question in "10 for the Producers".
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Nov 17, 2015 10:51
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Dante80 posted:Also, Elite 2/3 had half a billion stars (a 20 ly deep horizontal slice of the milky way) on a floppy diskette. They're getting better at comms, but at the end, they're still an indie development house (for Elite and iirc they're self publishing Coaster planet). For me, I let that slide. I think braben still winces at the offline mode, and its going to be pretty much something that will continually haunt them. But I digress, once all modes that FD dreams of Elite being, they may open up the code for us to explore if they are no longer supporting it (too lazy to dig up the interview). The case here is, they still delivered a game, Mac Port, XB1 Port, 5 updates and now first expansion within the first year of launch. Oh and 30 playable ships. While Star Citizen has delivered ... AC 1.6? Social module? no_recall fucked around with this message at 11:02 on Nov 17, 2015 |
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Nov 17, 2015 10:59
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no_recall posted:I'm of the opinion that the cut just had to be done. It was a conscious business decision which they had to do. The experience right now is by far the best I've had for a long time. But thats just me. Doesn't matter if it had to be done or not, a lot of stupid stuff was said at the time by Frontier that people weren't entitled to refunds, they were and so eventually they got them if they stuck with it. The benefits of having offline mode can be argued and the disadvantages of having it impact other features too but that's not the reason I mentioned it. I understand if you like elite and think it's great, if they are keeping their promises for everything else I think Frontier deserve to be applauded, but they hosed up the PR during the offline feature cut and nobody can successfully argue they didn't. If they'd offered refunds immediately they'd probably have come out ahead in PR due to the positive reaction and had fewer refunds. You can trust someone who fucks up more than someone lying to you about your rights. And to come back to CIG, still talking about "donations" and no rights to a refund. AP fucked around with this message at 11:06 on Nov 17, 2015 |
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Nov 17, 2015 11:02
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no_recall posted:Valid point. However looking at the commodity markets, now powerplay, and how the data driven it is, I'm of the opinion that the cut just had to be done. It was a conscious business decision which they had to do. It was a conscious business decision though: playing offline would have made the bad / boring / grindy parts of elite much more obvious and would have negatively affected the response & reviews. Quite a bit. Elite at launch was a very grindy game. Of the promises they had an option to break, there's a reason they chose that one. For whatever reason, players buy in with grind way more in the online context. It's not even about social multiplayer -- there are a lot of people who played wow and other mmos effectively solo. There's something psychological about the online comparison of achievement in relation to other players. And that goes completely out the window when there's contamination from cheating or other shortcuts (which is inevitable offline). This isn't a huge knock against the game, I respect how far they've come with it and made online-only actually worth something. It's cynical but this is a business and all games have to focus on what they're good at to succeed. And I give them massive props for not just having a "convenience" cash shop in the game. Plenty of other games are doing that in their full-price products. But to me, Elite is an X3 with no cheats or dev console. I loved X3, spent months of my life with it, but I never would have made it past the first 4-6 hours without the ability to skip the bad grind.
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Nov 17, 2015 11:11
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AP posted:Doesn't matter if it had to be done or not, a lot of stupid stuff was said at the time by Frontier that people weren't entitled to refunds, they were and so eventually they got them if they stuck with it. The benefits of having offline mode can be argued and the disadvantages of having it impact other features too but that's not the reason I mentioned it. Yep, pretty much. FDEV did two things wrong. 1. Did not communicate dropping the offline module fast enough. From the way the thing unfolded, it was evident that the decision was made some months before it was actually announced. 2. They lost a bucketload of community goodwill via the refunds debacle. For posterity, if you do promise something and then go back on your word, you should probably not say that "it sucks, deal with it, no refunds" at the same time. This hurt them a lot (not so much from people getting the refunds, but from the negative press and reviews when the game actually launched), and..it really should. On the other hand, I'm happy to see that FDEV are learning from their mistakes (they really have 0 MMO experience as devs) and becoming more competent as the game moves along in the development process.
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Nov 17, 2015 11:11
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AP posted:You can trust someone who fucks up more than someone lying to you about your rights. Honestly I didn't care about the offline mode, many others did sure. As for the refunds the problem probably stemmed from the fact that they aren't retail and aren't publishers. And without director / investor consent they couldn't put OPEX to provide a "refund option". I clearly understand the ruse and the mess it made, but that doesn't change facts that they've met every deliverable to date.
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Nov 17, 2015 11:12
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no_recall posted:Honestly I didn't care about the offline mode, many others did sure. As for the refunds the problem probably stemmed from the fact that they aren't retail and aren't publishers. And without director / investor consent they couldn't put OPEX to provide a "refund option". I clearly understand the ruse and the mess it made, but that doesn't change facts that they've met every deliverable to date. FDEV self-published ED, and most of the money for development came from own funds (ipo, + investors the biggest of which is Braben himself). FDEV is a publicly traded company in UK, but they have 100% creative/executive freedom in ED. Which makes sense btw, its the studio founders' dream game.
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Nov 17, 2015 11:15
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no_recall posted:Honestly I didn't care about the offline mode, many others did sure. Yeah, I get that you don't care, I don't care that you don't care. It's important though as it's a classic example of fans for a game making excuses for a developer just because they like the game. Another point to make is that if the pro Frontier posting brigade hadn't make such a fuss of trying to stop the unhappy offlines getting a refund by telling them they were wrong, then the PR disaster that we're still talking about, would have been a lot smaller. Now Frontier can learn not to make PR fuckups like this but they can't do anything about their fans still insisting they did nothing wrong and therefore giving extra life to a negative story about the game. To come back to Star Citizen again, this is exactly what all the people arguing with Derek Smart do to Star Citizen too. They aren't helping and if they really wanted to help they'd shut the hell up.
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Nov 17, 2015 11:19
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Dante80 posted:FDEV self-published ED, and most of the money for development came from own funds (ipo, + investors the biggest of which is Braben himself). FDEV is a publicly traded company in UK, but they have 100% creative/executive freedom in ED. Yeah, it was an expensive retail lesson they learnt. Which is why Steam Refunds are a much clearer and better alternative to buying from their own store. I work for a public traded company and audit trails are king, they had no avenue to release the funds back to the backers because it wasn't something that they thought was required - embarrassing for a 30 year old dev house.
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Nov 17, 2015 11:20
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no_recall posted:As for the refunds the problem probably stemmed from the fact that they aren't retail and aren't publishers. But still, they handled it very badly by trying to deny in the first place. It would have been better to give in and handle it quietly for the people who are most upset, rather than have bad press written that brings the situation to more eyeballs. They probably lost more refunds than would have otherwise wanted them if they'd kept it on the DL. Also FYP: no_recall posted:but that doesn't change facts that they've met every other deliverable besides offline to date.
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Nov 17, 2015 11:20
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AP posted:Doesn't matter if it had to be done or not, a lot of stupid stuff was said at the time by Frontier that people weren't entitled to refunds, they were and so eventually they got them if they stuck with it. The benefits of having offline mode can be argued and the disadvantages of having it impact other features too but that's not the reason I mentioned it. loving up PR doesn't affect the quality of the game though. "If people had been manipulated into a more favourable attitude by cleverly crafted words..." sure, that's true, because people are idiots which is why you pay PR firms to cleverly craft words for you. These guys didn't, but elite is the exact same game as it would have been if they had so it's all water under the bridge at this point. In reality, it's pretty obvious why offline mode for elite was cut, without a server to offload all the work of simulating and tracking the universe to, it falls to your desktop PC to do it, which not only means an increase in minimum system requirements but also a cut in the visual quality and detail of the game. Do you sacrifice these things so 10% of people can play offline who wouldn't otherwise play the game? The answer seems clear. In related news, I believe SC promises offline gameplay for the single player story at least. Looking forward to this game going through the exact same development dilemma as E:D did, if it even gets that far.
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Nov 17, 2015 11:23
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AP posted:
That's when you can get the support of reddit and the brown sea.
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Nov 17, 2015 11:24
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Chalks posted:In related news, I believe SC promises offline gameplay for the single player story at least. Looking forward to this game going through the exact same development dilemma as E:D did, if it even gets that far. They promised mods and private servers as well. Last I heard.
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Nov 17, 2015 11:25
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no_recall posted:Yeah, it was an expensive retail lesson they learnt. Which is why Steam Refunds are a much clearer and better alternative to buying from their own store. I work for a public traded company and audit trails are king, they had no avenue to release the funds back to the backers because it wasn't something that they thought was required - embarrassing for a 30 year old dev house. I kinda like Elite but don't play it a lot because it's too "hard", grindy and boring. Still a nice game but anyone who doesn't laugh at the fact that they released an online only game without multiplayer is a bit dumb.
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Nov 17, 2015 11:26
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Klyith posted:But to me, Elite is an X3 with no cheats or dev console. I loved X3, spent months of my life with it, but I never would have made it past the first 4-6 hours without the ability to skip the bad grind. Pretty much this. My way past that early grind was to just grab all the 12 (or so) free floating ships around the in-game galaxy. I'd use the money to buy a super fitted Nova (the heaviest fighter ship you can get) and still have cash left over. Or I'd just use one of the free ones you could loot from that list of free ships and fit that out. Then I'd murder pirates, have fun blowing poo poo up, and sell the awesome loot and free ships from bail-outs that would inevitably happen. Means you don't have to modify your game, still get to have fun blowing space dudes up, but you still have an easy way to escape the annoying grinds. And you also open up large chunks of your game map while finding these freebies. And in Terran Conflict, once you get the Vidar ship as part of the storyline you pretty much break the game wide open, and can nuke everything in sight, earn stupid amounts of money from combat missions, and finance an empire. I can't speak for Albion Prelude (a lot of improvements, but the war around Omicron Lyrae is a dealbreaker for me. The free corvette is a nice touch though. Hmm, now I want to go back and play again.
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Nov 17, 2015 11:29
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Chalks posted:loving up PR doesn't affect the quality of the game though. Frontier lied about refunds during this disaster, CIG is continuing to lie about refunds. Frontier I assume isn't actively lying anymore and has a game, CIG don't have any sort of actual game and still are lying. I dunno, I'm going to stick with a belief that someone you've given money to, choosing to lie to you isn't generally a good sign. gently caress ups happen, PR and otherwise, the constant attempts to defend it are a bit bizarre though.
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Nov 17, 2015 11:32
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Chalks posted:In reality, it's pretty obvious why offline mode for elite was cut, without a server to offload all the work of simulating and tracking the universe to, it falls to your desktop PC to do it, which not only means an increase in minimum system requirements but also a cut in the visual quality and detail of the game. Do you sacrifice these things so 10% of people can play offline who wouldn't otherwise play the game? The answer seems clear. Particularly stuff like markets which may as well be random to 99.99% of players, or warfare which is probably more realistic the more random you make it.
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Nov 17, 2015 11:32
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Tahirovic posted:I kinda like Elite but don't play it a lot because it's too "hard", grindy and boring. Still a nice game but anyone who doesn't laugh at the fact that they released an online only game without multiplayer is a bit dumb. 27 players from all around the world, playing flawlessly in the same instance. Don't blame Frontier for your lovely internet man!
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Nov 17, 2015 11:47
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tooterfish posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN3cipLjPoQ&t=600s Community-made game that's miles better than the lovely race mode in SC.
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Nov 17, 2015 12:15
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Octopode posted:No. I work here. I manage operations for this and integration for this, while making sure that their stuff keeps working in here. Hahaha your computer's are old, what do you know 
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Nov 17, 2015 12:33
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eHe4LgHYcU Full Interview 19.11, funnily enough, sale start day.
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Nov 17, 2015 12:33
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MAKE WAY NEW STARS posted:Every time they make some progress in the game Croberts comes out of his cocaine vault to tell them to scrap it all because there's a new vision, so they have to "reverse the verse" and start over.
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Nov 17, 2015 12:55
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Palpek posted:It's exactly word-for-word what happened to Duke Nukem Forever. There's an article somewhere that tells the story of the absolutely absurd amount of money 3D Realms had when they started developing DNF and how they spent it on their office and getting the best talent in the industry only to switch from version to version and endlessly add features based on what the current hot FPS game showed. It's hilarious how closely SC follows that title's route. Yeah but this time it's different because DREAMS.
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Nov 17, 2015 13:37
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Beet Wagon posted:Yeah but this time it's different because ftfy
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Nov 17, 2015 13:38
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SneakyFrog posted:ftfy poo poo, that is better. I haven't had my coffee yet. Also I can second Beer's recommendation to pick up a bottle of Lizano sauce. That stuff is awesome on everything.
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Nov 17, 2015 13:41
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Palpek posted:It's exactly word-for-word what happened to Duke Nukem Forever. There's an article somewhere that tells the story of the absolutely absurd amount of money 3D Realms had when they started developing DNF and how they spent it on their office and getting the best talent in the industry only to switch from version to version and endlessly add features based on what the current hot FPS game showed. It's hilarious how closely SC follows that title's route. Also in building their very own mo-cap studio.
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Nov 17, 2015 13:46
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Mirificus posted:
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Nov 17, 2015 13:49
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A Neurotic Jew posted:have the anniversary sales lasted Two Weeks in the past like they are this year? Neurotic Jew you seem well versed in the thread lore. I have seen the original wheelchair post but have not seen the big ol titty mama who was whoring for ships, can you find me this post
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Nov 17, 2015 14:00
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Baby PU 2.0 is looking great.
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Nov 17, 2015 14:05
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I've noticed Wing Commander on Netflix, should I watch it for a laugh or will it be like the time I watched Superman 4 and the joke was on me?
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Nov 17, 2015 14:18
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Bacon Terrorist posted:I've noticed Wing Commander on Netflix, should I watch it for a laugh or will it be like the time I watched Superman 4 and the joke was on me? Watch it ............ That film tells you all you need to know about Mr Roberts and his 'Vision'
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Nov 17, 2015 14:19
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EightAce posted:Watch it ............ That movie suffered from a conspicuous lack of Gary Oldman and Sandi Gardiner, no wonder it bombed.
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Nov 17, 2015 14:22
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MeLKoR posted:That movie suffered from a conspicuous lack of Gary Oldman and Sandi Gardiner, no wonder it bombed. But far too much Mathew Lillard and Freddie Prinze Jr who went on to make the Oscar winning Scooby doo films.
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Nov 17, 2015 14:28
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its a really really bad movie
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Nov 17, 2015 14:28
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Want. 
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Nov 17, 2015 14:33
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