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stinkles1112 posted:No. The problem is exactly that they are NOT trying to speak to an absurd caricature of the entire non-sympathetic public that irrationally hates black people, they are trying to speak to people who genuinely believe they are not racists, even though they still hold implicit biases and support a system that holds up implicit biases, and I put to you that the overwhelming majority of the population falls into the second category and COULD actually be convinced Expanding on what Popular Thug Drink said up there, we still hear poo poo about Black History Month every year. It doesn't matter what you call the movement, because people will use the same messaging against it. "Well, really, we need to be nicer to everybody, this doesn't need to be a race thing!  "
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Nov 23, 2015 19:33
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A Winner is Jew posted:CA has the best food in the nation. The only thing StL County is best at is segregation and disenfranchisement.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:34
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Raskolnikov38 posted:I can't wait for one of them to rewatch It's a Wonderful Life and have Fox n Friends defend Mr. Potter. Pretty sure that already happened. Same with Scrooge.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:34
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BRAKE FOR MOOSE posted:Expanding on what Popular Thug Drink said up there, we still hear poo poo about Black History Month every year. It doesn't matter what you call the movement, because people will use the same messaging against it. "Well, really, we need to be nicer to everybody, this doesn't need to be a race thing! Right, but the harder you make it for them to do that, the better and more successful your movement will be. The slogan "black lives matter" is comically easy to twist into something lovely, as we've observed. So to come back to my original point, even when some people will never be convinced, messaging matters, and "black lives matter" is decidedly suboptimal messaging.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:37
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greatn posted:People tend to think protest is supposed to be provocative and confrontational but I think the tea party was so successful because while their protests were stupid bullshit, they were usually out of the way and not inconveniencing anyone. Tea party protests were successful because they were supported by the establishment and in turn supported the desired policies of the establishment.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:37
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Tea party protests were successful because they were supported by the establishment and in turn supported the desired policies of the establishment. Tea Party protests were so successful because they gave voice to the overwhelming mood of the American electorate.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:38
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Tea Party protests weren't successful.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:39
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stinkles1112 posted:Right, but the harder you make it for them to do that, the better and more successful your movement will be. The slogan "black lives matter" is comically easy to twist into something lovely, as we've observed. So to come back to my original point, even when some people will never be convinced, messaging matters, and "black lives matter" is decidedly suboptimal messaging. Much like it was "sub-optimal messaging" for MLK Jr to speak out against the Vietnam war 
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Nov 23, 2015 19:39
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The Kingfish posted:There are these people out there called "moderates" and they don't really have strong beliefs one way or the other until you figure out how to trick them into caring about your cause. And people here seem to forget that they're some of the dumbest loving creatures on the planet, and are easily swayed by shiny objects and catchy sloagans. Automatically shoving them into the "Irredeemably racist, so gently caress 'em." pile is counterproductive, and plays directly into the right's waiting hands. This goes for all manner of issues, from feminism to LBGT advocacy. The more sneering and condescending you are towards the easily startled sheep in the middle, the easier it is for the Right to gently caress you with their scared and willing votes.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:39
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Tea party protests were successful because they were supported by the establishment and in turn supported the desired policies of the establishment. Weren't Tea Party protests relatively sparse and didn't really have many people show up? I seem to recall reports where the photos where positioned to make it seem like more people were there and give the movement more populist legitimacy. I know recent efforts have been really lack luster but I can't think it was that much more popular five years ago.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:39
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stinkles1112 posted:Right, but the harder you make it for them to do that, the better and more successful your movement will be. The slogan "black lives matter" is comically easy to twist into something lovely, as we've observed. So to come back to my original point, even when some people will never be convinced, messaging matters, and "black lives matter" is decidedly suboptimal messaging. I challenge you to come up with a good slogan that couldn't be coopted or otherwise intentionally misrepresented by bigots and politicians.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:40
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Radish posted:Weren't Tea Party protests relatively sparse and didn't really have many people show up? I seem to recall reports where the photos where positioned to make it seem like more people were there and give the movement more populist legitimacy. I know recent efforts have been really lack luster but I can't think it was that much more popular five years ago. The protests themselves were astroturfed to hell and back with bussed-in old farts.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:41
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GlitchThief posted:I challenge you to come up with a good slogan that couldn't be coopted or otherwise intentionally misrepresented by bigots and politicians. Pretty much any phrase neutral enough to not be easily twisted into offending the white persecution complex is going to be useless since it will fail to bring any attention to the fact there is inequality in American society.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:42
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My Imaginary GF posted:Tea Party protests were so successful because they gave voice to the overwhelming mood of the American electorate. They weren't, and didn't.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:42
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GlitchThief posted:I challenge you to come up with a good slogan that couldn't be coopted or otherwise intentionally misrepresented by bigots and politicians. Impossible. Some slogans are easier to manipulate than others though.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:42
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GlitchThief posted:I challenge you to come up with a good slogan that couldn't be coopted or otherwise intentionally misrepresented by bigots and politicians. gently caress The Police
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Nov 23, 2015 19:42
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Captain_Maclaine posted:They weren't, and didn't. They killed the Blue Dogs and won Congress for the R's by flipping a record amount of state governments during a redistricting year.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:43
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Captain_Maclaine posted:They weren't, and didn't. By crashing every Health Care town hall meeting, they killed single payer in it's crib.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:45
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"Black Lives Matter Too" Seriously. Edit: "Black Lives Also Matter" BLAM!
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Nov 23, 2015 19:45
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Humans Among Us posted:gently caress The Police Yeah... about that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WiT-c3NA0M
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Nov 23, 2015 19:45
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stinkles1112 posted:"Black Lives Matter Too" "We Also Matter" WAM!
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Nov 23, 2015 19:47
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greatn posted:People tend to think protest is supposed to be provocative and confrontational but I think the tea party was so successful because while their protests were stupid bullshit, they were usually out of the way and not inconveniencing anyone. Their "protests" weren't protests so much as public events in which the participants could (figuratively) jerk each other off while providing footage of people supporting the agenda of whichever astroturfer was funding the whole mess.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:47
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Our Lives Matter
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Nov 23, 2015 19:47
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My Imaginary GF posted:They killed the Blue Dogs and won Congress for the R's by flipping a record amount of state governments during a redistricting year.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:47
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Bash the Fash. Edit: Actually it would be rad if people started crashing Donald Trump rallies and blasting this and Nazi Punks gently caress Off.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:48
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Radish posted:Pretty much any phrase neutral enough to not be easily twisted into offending the white persecution complex is going to be useless since it will fail to bring any attention to the fact there is inequality in American society. True. I guess it's much easier to fault the oppressed for failing to fight back correctly than is to fault the society that continues to denigrate and murder them.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:48
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Hulk Krogan posted:Bash the Fash. I would enjoy watching some footage of it, that's for sure.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:49
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GlitchThief posted:True. I guess it's much easier to fault the oppressed for failing to fight back correctly than is to fault the society that continues to denigrate and murder them. I mean if only marginalized people had brought up their complaints more politely the society oppressing them would certainly stop being unfair. This is corroborated by history many, many times.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:52
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withak posted:Their "protests" weren't protests so much as public events in which the participants could (figuratively) jerk each other off while providing footage of people supporting the agenda of whichever astroturfer was funding the whole mess. Yeah I'm saying BLM should do that.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:52
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Hulk Krogan posted:Bash the Fash. actually i think you'll find that greeting the "fash" by attempting to "bash" them is not going to win any hearts and minds and perhaps you sh - *is pushed to ground, stomped on by jackboot*
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Nov 23, 2015 19:53
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GlitchThief posted:True. I guess it's much easier to fault the oppressed for failing to fight back correctly than is to fault the society that continues to denigrate and murder them. Once again, "faulting the oppressed" is not what's going on here. In fact if you read closely, you might find that we're actually brainstorming about what ways might also work, and possibly even work better!, for standing up for the oppressed
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Nov 23, 2015 19:53
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Bashing the fash is actually extremely effective propaganda though because fascist movements must appear to be physically strong.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:54
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No Lives Matter 
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Nov 23, 2015 19:54
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They're not going to change their name, and so much focus on their name ignores that wingnuts and racists don't give a poo poo about their name, that's a convenient foil to gain supporters, they've made poo poo up about them for months as essentially massively paranoid, black supremacists, with media complicity.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:55
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stinkles1112 posted:Once again, "faulting the oppressed" is not what's going on here. In fact if you read closely, you might find that we're actually brainstorming about what ways might also work, and possibly even work better!, for standing up for the oppressed You're running into the problem of "All ideas from the oppressed are perfect and must not be criticized or changed."
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Nov 23, 2015 19:56
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Nonsense posted:They're not going to change their name, and so much focus on their name ignores that wingnuts and racists don't give a poo poo about their name, that's a convenient foil to gain supporters, they've made poo poo up about them for months as essentially massively paranoid, black supremacists, with media complicity. Wingnuts and racists aren't the target audience, luckily.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:56
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stinkles1112 posted:Once again, "faulting the oppressed" is not what's going on here. In fact if you read closely, you might find that we're actually brainstorming about what ways might also work, and possibly even work better!, for standing up for the oppressed i've got an idea: let's stop faulting the oppressed
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Nov 23, 2015 19:57
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The name of BLM just came from people using a hashtag that resonated with them, correct? No big focused group micromanaged branding strategy. Is there even an official organization that could even theoretically change the name?
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Nov 23, 2015 19:57
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Nonsense posted:They're not going to change their name, and so much focus on their name ignores that wingnuts and racists don't give a poo poo about their name, that's a convenient foil to gain supporters, they've made poo poo up about them for months as essentially massively paranoid, black supremacists, with media complicity. Reminder that according to conservatives black people just standing outside of polling places = voter intimidation by blacks. 
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Nov 23, 2015 19:57
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our polls have found that most americans find this message being delivered from a dark-skinned person to be distressing. we believe that a better course of action would be to paint the protesters in a lighter shade, or perhaps equip them with long smocks and wide brimmed hats, so that their message will not be so easily distorted by the media
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Nov 23, 2015 19:59
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