|
All the demons he uses in that fight are early to midgame demons, some with skills they could never get naturally. His personal skills run the gamut from permanently viable attacks from early game to extreme lategame slobberknockers. In other words, you can't quite build a team exactly like that fight, and even if you could, Demifiend would have to carry the whole thing past midgame.
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2015 05:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 20:46 |
|
|
You can give all those skills to the Demi-Fiend and make it work, but that's half his skill slots occupied by various flavors of "hit all enemies once" physical moves, and that's a big hit to potential versatility. As for his team, that's a bit of another story, and I pretty much agree with what Sordas said. That said, there is a surprising amount of flexibility in what skills you can give to what demons, considering you can fuse entirely unrelated demons into Elements and Mitama who can carry over the skills you want without irreversibly transforming your target demon into something else, and with enough Mitama and grinding you can make early-game demons relatively viable for a long time. But even then, it'd be a gigantic, time-consuming pain in the butt. And now that I think of it, I believe the DDS Arahabaki has a couple skills that straight up don't exist in Nocturne, but I can't recall for sure.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2015 15:14
|
|
|
There's one demon on the DDS team that's good enough to last you the whole game, but that'll come later.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2015 15:15
|
|
|
Update 13: The Assault on Nihilo
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2015 15:15
|
|
|
Good work on the LP so far! A few mechanical comments: 1) Chancing it against Daisoujou using evasion worked well enough but if anyone playing along wants a more reliable safety net, you can fuse yourself a Dis at this level range which comes with Tetraja by default. 2) quote:(Why do I keep Shock instead of Ice Breath? Well, they're both equivalent in power, and where Ice Breath can freeze, Shock can, well, shock. In the end I keep Shock because I think it looks cooler.) To each their own, but there is one big difference between the two: Freeze turns off Repel Phys, which Shock does not. Not relevant right now but I'm sure you can imagine that might come into play at some point.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2015 16:12
|
|
|
Oh dang I had totally forgotten about that. I'm probably not gonna keep Shock forever anyway, but that's an excellent point in general.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2015 16:15
|
|
|
Hey, quick favor to ask: when you screenshot a decision, could you do it with your cursor on the choice you actually made? This update's not the first where this has happened: quote:
Also, how come you put the update in the off-site thing? Now that you're caught up, there's no reason not to put it in-thread. Also also, wow. Not one, but two checks if you're sure you wanna fight Daisoujou, and yet freaking Matador and Dante attack us without even warning. Also also also, I'm confused. Are we railroaded into destroying the core, or could we choose not to? I'm wondering why we're going through the trouble of collecting the nails if we might (at least in theory) want to ally with these guys.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2015 20:15
|
|
|
Screenshots really cannot capture how incredibly disorienting that spinning hallway is. Looking at that thing's the only time I've ever been made dizzy by a video game.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2015 21:29
|
|
|
FredMSloniker posted:Hey, quick favor to ask: when you screenshot a decision, could you do it with your cursor on the choice you actually made? This update's not the first where this has happened: Oh I've just been leaving it on the default choice, and figured it'd be made clear what answer I picked when I write the subsequent dialog. It's a simple enough change to make if that's a sticking point though, no sweat. FredMSloniker posted:Also, how come you put the update in the off-site thing? Now that you're caught up, there's no reason not to put it in-thread. Ha, that would be force of habit. I'll be switching back to in-thread then. Thanks for the reminder. FredMSloniker posted:Also also, wow. Not one, but two checks if you're sure you wanna fight Daisoujou, and yet freaking Matador and Dante attack us without even warning. Well, Daisoujou is optional, and you wouldn't really have a reason to go back to the Ikebukuro eastern area if you hadn't been clued in by the local NPCs. The game assumes that the Candelabrum acting up when you enter the area is warning enough... but I do seem to remember some later fiends outright ambush you, so who knows. FredMSloniker posted:Also also also, I'm confused. Are we railroaded into destroying the core, or could we choose not to? I'm wondering why we're going through the trouble of collecting the nails if we might (at least in theory) want to ally with these guys. We're really just here to meet up with the Nihilo leadership. Hijiri wants us to get the skinny from Hikawa, but we especially want to see Ms. Takao, since she's the reason we're alive, she outright asked us to find her, and she promised strength and guidance. At this point we couldn't give a toss about who's collecting emotion juice for what purpose, so the core itself is none of our concern beyond helping us grab the attention of someone high up the food chain. Montegoraon posted:Screenshots really cannot capture how incredibly disorienting that spinning hallway is. Looking at that thing's the only time I've ever been made dizzy by a video game. Yeah, it's a trip and a half. The nearer sections of the hallway rotate faster than the further ones (EDIT: it's actually the opposite, doy), so it only takes a few seconds for the visual effect to kind of break apart and start feeling extremely chaotic. FrankZP fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Nov 29, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2015 22:42
|
|
|
FrankZP posted:Yeah, it's a trip and a half. The nearer sections of the hallway rotate faster than the further ones, so it only takes a few seconds for the visual effect to kind of break apart and start feeling extremely chaotic. Any possibility of getting a GIF or video of the hallway, or should I just search for it on Youtube?
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2015 23:02
|
|
|
Ability ro get daisoujou unlocked. Game won. Nothing to see here.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2015 23:48
|
|
|
FrankZP posted:We're really just here to meet up with the Nihilo leadership. Hijiri wants us to get the skinny from Hikawa, but we especially want to see Ms. Takao, since she's the reason we're alive, she outright asked us to find her, and she promised strength and guidance. At this point we couldn't give a toss about who's collecting emotion juice for what purpose, so the core itself is none of our concern beyond helping us grab the attention of someone high up the food chain. Ah. So we're threatening the core until someone pays attention to us. How very Mantra.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2015 02:22
|
|
|
Maybe its just me, but the Candle Fiends seem pretty densely packed around here. We've fought three now, with only about a dungeon and a half among them, right? I don't remember them being so close together.
|
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2015 02:50
|
|
|
GeneralYeti posted:Any possibility of getting a GIF or video of the hallway, or should I just search for it on Youtube? Excellent suggestion. Granted! Oddity: Nihilo's Wonderful Spinning Hallway To me, it's especially mesmerizing when the cycle restarts, and when it's about halfway through, when you can detect the order restoring itself for just a moment and then slipping away again. On a New Game+ you can actually play in first person perspective, and it must be even trippier then. I'll probably relink the video in the next intermission so it's included officially. Rigged Death Trap posted:Ability ro get daisoujou unlocked. Well, we still need to pick up a Deathstone from the Labyrinth, but, very near there for sure. My first time around, whatever I fused into him gave him Makatora, the MP sharing skill, and I used him as a rechargeable battery for like three quarters of the game. I did get sick of him hogging valuable experience after a while though. FredMSloniker posted:Ah. So we're threatening the core until someone pays attention to us. How very Mantra. Ha, that's one way to look at it, and a fairly insightful one at that. The Mantra rank-and-file don't think much of this whole creation business, and are well content with the current state of affairs; as far as we can tell, it looks like Gozu-Tennoh isn't involved in the greater purpose of the Vortex World and would rather conquer it and rule it forever than see it change or be destroyed. Our goals and the Mantra's may differ, but we have something in common in that we're not willingly participating in the official process either (not yet, perhaps not ever), and anyone precipitating events that we don't have a chance to influence is a potential threat, both to us and to whatever Ms. Takao's goal is (regardless of whether we would go along with it or not, were we to know what it was). In any case, Hikawa and Ms. Takao both know we've survived the Conception as they did, but I don't think they know we're somewhat less helpless than Chiaki, Isamu and Hijiri are. Remember when Hikawa told us "even a pebble creates ripples when cast in water"? Dude's gonna wish he brought his surfboard along. Arcade Rabbit posted:Maybe its just me, but the Candle Fiends seem pretty densely packed around here. We've fought three now, with only about a dungeon and a half among them, right? I don't remember them being so close together. Yeah, I'm a little bit surprised that they're showing up in quick succession too, but, well, here we are! That said, I do remember Daisoujou pissing me off so much that I ended up leaving him alone for a long time, so maybe that colors my memory somewhat. FrankZP fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Nov 29, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 29, 2015 03:06
|
|
|
Rigged Death Trap posted:Ability ro get daisoujou unlocked. Daisoujou is pretty awesome, yes, but he's not my favorite fiend for fusions. He comes much later...
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2015 06:48
|
|
|
Neurion posted:Daisoujou is pretty awesome, yes, but he's not my favorite fiend for fusions. He comes much later... He's not even as good as RDT implies. Yes, he's good. Maybe even end of the game + bonus stuff good. But you can still get your rear end handed to you on a silver platter easily once you get him. He's not an "I win" button. That comes later.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2015 18:33
|
|
|
He can carry the team and is one of the best healers, Also hes a screaming skelebuddha. Which is super metal. your other 'I win' button (one of many this game isnt too hard) has been with us since the beginning of the game. Yes, Its the piDemi-Fiend.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2015 18:51
|
|
|
Rigged Death Trap posted:He can carry the team and is one of the best healers, Like I said, he's potentially end-game good. Won't stop this game from killing you repeatedly even after you get him.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2015 19:11
|
|
|
 That's the only other way from here.    : Compared to the Mantra, it doesn't take much. : Yeah. But I just want to talk, for now. : Commander Hikawa is on Floor B15 of the core. But, you need the four Kilas, stakes that control the Magatsuhi in this structure, to get to him. You saw those four pedestals on the way here, right? Use the Kilas there...: That's pretty much what I figured.: Occasionally, there are visitors like you, but they all disappear up ahead. They all fall prey to the traps made by the great Commander Hikawa.: If you think he's so great, why are you feeding me info?: So, why tell you all this? I figure you have the right to know before you die...: How kind of you. What the...?   : This is the storehouse for Magatsuhi. It's separated into three floors, and each leads to a storeroom where a Kila is kept. You see that switch? It's set up so that it changes the flow of Magatsuhi. *chuckle* In other words, if you don't use the switches properly, you'll never make it to the storerooms.  *: As the spirit explained, this is essentially a multilayered maze with pathways controlled by those round switches. You can spend a minimum of time in here and go straight for the Kila rooms, but there are Cubes here and there, and I want to get them all. In fact, before we even touch the switch, we can reach...  And when we do activate the switch...     There's another switch in the northwest corner.     This one allows us to access a ladder in the southeastern corner, as well as a door in the north. But before we can reach either, we get in a fight with Nihilo patrols.  Seeing as we're now running into Forneus as random encounters, I'm extra glad I gave Zio to Kikuri-Hime.  : Even if someone were to make it that far, they'd be killed anyway. So, that's why we don't have to panic.: Yeah, we'll see about that. Get your panic pants ready.   White Treasure Room, eh? *: We get the usual warning about strong power behind the door.    : I am Eligor, one of the fallen angels. I guard this Kila under the order of our commander. : I like those with intelligence.: Are you hitting on me?: To show you my respect, I will kill you painlessly.: Ah, right, that'll make more sense. : The decision is out of your hands, my friend.: Die!!    *: Eligor starts the battle alone, and he's not a full boss so he only gets one turn icon. However, he gets a suprise round, and opens up with Beast Eye. Beast Eye is a weaker version of Daisoujou's Startle, turning a full icon into two half icons. He uses one of these icons to cast Gathering to summon one Dis, and the Dis uses the other icon to cast Makajam on Badb Catha. It lands, but Badb Catha doesn't have any spells yet so it's no biggie. However, on the second enemy turn, he summons a second Dis, who uses Stone Gaze (and misses), so we don't want to mess around for too long. Eligor turns out to be weak to electricity, so Kikuri-Hime's Zio comes in handy. A couple Focus shock-crits later and we only have the Disir to finish off, which is simple enough with Heat Wave. quote:Fallen Eligor   So there's number two. We could now take the ladder down to the next layer, but Zed used up a bunch of MP on Fog Breath, so I decide to return to the terminal and heal up before we attempt the second Kila guardian fight. We could probably win either way, but I don't feel like taking chances. As long as we're in Shibuya, I drop by the Cathedral to register my party, and visit the Junk shop to pick up a Revival Bead and three Dis-Mute items. Heeho used to run this store, but he's gone on his trip, and he's been replaced by another "alternative lifestyle" Manikin who also gives out Lucky Tickets. Alright then, back to Nihilo.    *: The enemies we run into down here so far are Forneus, Koppa and Fomor. Large amounts of Koppa can buff one another's offense and get pretty scary if you let them live long enough, but they're individually fragile and fall quickly. Momunofu learned Brutal Slash, a strong single-target attack that eats up a decent chunk of HP, but seeing as Kikuri-Hime knows Diarama and can replenish her MP with Mana Drain, we can still make liberal use of it.  As long as you leave the switches in their default positions on the second layer (B11), you can access a small terminal; however you need to cut off access to it in order to proceed.  Now I'm not going to detail all the switch stuff, but I'm showing you this picture here because you can clearly see the 5x5 maze on the floor below, taunting us with promises of future pain in the butt. On the way, Zed levels up and learns Might from Kamudo, which is the last skill this particular Magatama has to offer. I replace Taunt with it.  This is the confirmation that Kamudo has nothing more to teach us. Mastering Magatama like this actually has a fairly small hidden effect, but it won't be visible in any way until we master a couple more.   : That's my line! *: Eligor uses Beast Eye again, and summons a Yaka this time, which wastes a turn on Diarama. I foresee no great difficulty this time either. In fact, Badb Catha and Kikuri-Hima can take one Yaka every round together, so Eligor's further summons are for nothing, and Momunofu and Zed have free reign to use Focus and basic attacks. The fight is over quickly and at little expense.  We don't get the next Kila right away, though. There are multiple short paths branching off the main corridor.  A small empty room...  And another dead end with a Cube.  : ...a world where we throw away our individuality and become a part of the grand universe. There is no pain or struggling due to individuality.: That sounds pretty good, but on the other hand, no individuality.: ...Commander Hikawa is wonderful. All shall be bliss...Man that Hikawa sure likes his cultists.  *: There's another small terminal here, so once we're done exploring we'll be able to heal up easily enough.  : She will be the foundation for our new world.: That's a lot of weight on the shoulders of a high school teacher.: So, no matter how much demons like you cause trouble, we won't be disturbed. ...The world we desire has no need for emotions in the first place...*: Sparing a random Incubus earns us 350 Macca and a very clear voice-acted "thank you!". I hadn't decided for myself if Incubi sounded like Barry White or Mickey Mouse, but their high-pitched, nasally voice clears up all doubt. After some more exploring interconnecting corridors for a while...  : Is this guy getting on anyone else's nerves yet, or is it just me? : Nah, I'm with you. : Even I would like to shove that spear up his nethers by now.*: More Beast Eye, and another Dis. Judicious use of Shock and Zio sees us through quickly this time. However, the guy was guarding a dead end. I can only assume he's going to ambush us again as we look around the area. A bit later we find a Mystical Chest, at half waning Kagutsuchi. I don't want to be back later, so I pass the time in the same room. Boy am I glad I have an ally with effectively infinite MP. In fact, Kikuri-Hime levels up, and learns Me Patra (replacing Taunt) and Maiden's Plea, a special passive conversation skill that sometimes pacifies demons trying to end talks out of anger.  Incense! Score! But as we leave the room...  : I found you.: God dammit.: Alright, that's enough!: It sure is.*: He summons Incubi this time, but it's not much more difficult. In fact, I focus on taking out his summons first, and use Kikuri-Hime's Zio on Eligor himself, allowing us to come out on top every round. He does start using Mudo though, which is slightly worrying.  We should be almost done with this layer now.  Red Treasure Room, at last. *: We get a warning about strong power, but there's no one inside. We grab the Red Kila, turn back, and...   : Halt...: Well at least it's not that other rear end in a top hat. Remember me?: I am Berith, the great duke of hell. : You're not turning me away so easily this time. : ... Then, prepare yourself... for my spear shall pierce through your insolent skull!  *: This is already a more threatening fight. The Succubi in particular are giving me the willies. In fact, I'll outright try using a Mahama Rock.  Aaaaand they have boss immunities going on. Okay then, time to put my game face on. Kikuri-Hime's Mabufu uncovers Berith's weakness to cold and freezes a Succubus, so we're still off to a good start. The Succubi try to use Lullaby, which is the prelude to Eternal Rest; Momunofu is weak to ailments, but Kikuri-Hime voids sleep so it's a wash overall. Aw hell, Berith uses Maragi, hitting Kikuri-Hime's weakness as well as Zed's (since I gave him Hifumi after mastering Kamudo). Badb Catha gets charmed, hits Zed, leaving him with 16 HP, and Zed counters, also leaving BC with 16 HP. Daaaaaaang. It's a good thing Kikuri could use Diarama before the end of our turn, beause the next round's two Maragi casts kill her off along with BC. I summon Chatterskull to start absorbing fire damage and cut down on extra turns. I knew I kept that dude around for a reason. Momunofu bites it on the following turn, but the Succubi are gone and I can summon more replacements. I think it's in the bag now, though it's a more expensive bag than I'd have liked. After a few rounds Berith starts using Hellfire, a stronger fire attack than Maragi, but we hold on thanks to a couple of Incubus War Cries, and eventually prevail. quote:Fallen Berith To put the poop cherry on the turd sundae, Zed levels up, and Hifumi stuns him. Oh boy.  Yeah, we'll be using that terminal now. Fortunately that was the last room of this area, so we never have to see these corridors again. One more Kila to go. The trip to Shibuya and back is accomplished without difficulty, and we reach the 5x5 cube maze easily.    It does seem pretty simple, though. The way north is already unlocked.   What the... : There will be hell to pay if you touch that switch! : I won't let you get past here. How's this?   : Son of a bitch!*: Not so simple, then. We got a teleporting douchebag operating switches now.  In addition, this cube has an open side pointing straight down, giving us an opportunity to drop to the smaller layer below. I do so right away, just to see if there's anything of importance down there.  : I don't know why you're surprised.: ............ Well... you can get to the storeroom on the floor above by turning the three switches blue.: Huh, alright then. Thank you.: ............ An intruder got this far...? I hope Commander Hikawa isn't slipping!: Seeing how many of you guys are giving me clues, maybe it's not his fault.*: Hmm, there are two ladders up from down here. This'll be every bit the pain in the rear end I remembered. During a Koppa fight... : Alright, I can't keep slaughtering you knuckleheads like this, my fists are getting sore. How about joining the winning side? : What the hell? You want me to join you?! I see...> Koppa is thinking. *: He asks for money, Life Stones and a Chakra Drop, then asks us if we think we can change the world, just like that Oni did back in Ginza. : Every time I punch something, the world gets a little different. One of these days I'll punch something really really big, and you'll want to be there to see it happen.: ...You might actually be able to. : I'm Koppa the Yoma. I'm itchin' for a good fight!: Welcome aboard. *: He's only level 19, but on his next level, he'll learn Watchful, which allows a reserve party member to gain full experience from battles it doesn't participate in. This is what that NPC meant a while back when they were talking about Nihilo having a demon that earns experience without fighting.  : I saw one of you fight by Eligor's side, and man, you're so much more impressive than he is. How about joining up?  : Oh-ho-ho-ho!*: She takes money and a Bead. : Very well, then. I am Dis of the Yoma lineage. I will serve you gracefully.: Eh, we're not that formal in here. You can let your hair down, it's no biggie.: Um. : Still so incredibly smooth.: Are you trying to out foot-in-mouth me?: Eh...?: ...: Aw hell. I didn't even... Aw hell! Aw crap!: Look, we got off on the wrong foot. I really dig the purple lipstick deal you've got going!: Did you recruit me to fight, or because you wanted to comment on my appearance?: Please accept my apologies, I don't know what I was thinking. I suspect with horror that Incubus' creepy may be rubbing off on me.: As long as it's the only thing he's rubbing off on you, amirite? : Heyo!: ...: Uzume would think that was funny. : If you'll notice, Chatterskull isn't laughing either. And Chatterskull is always laughing. : Yeah, not feelin' it. I'd shrug, but, you know. Shoulders. *: Now that we've befriended the most common denizens of this obnoxious pit, it's mostly just a matter of getting to the red switches and turning them blue, some of them more than once on account of the teleporting dirtbag. He gets tired of the game before we do, though.   It would have been too much to ask for the Green Kila to be right behind that door, huh? *: Four doors on either side, and one at the end. But the side ones are all locked. Hmm. At least the far one opens for us.  It looks like another set of branching corridors, and this one has another small terminal right at the start. On further exploration, it turns out there are only a bunch of dead ends instead of the little empty rooms of the red section. One of the passages turns into a T intersection with two doors. Taking the left one...  And the right one...  Green Treasure Room. So close! *: No strong power warning this time.   Aw man what.  : Why don't you take a wild guess, you floating sack of puss?: Had a hard time figuring out those switches at the storehouse?  : You'll be blue and red paste when I'm done with you. : Hahahaha!! : Get back here! Dammit!The big hallway with the locked doors comes back to mind. Is this going to turn into a Scooby-Doo climax?     Yeah, that's where he's fleeing to. Great.  Hmm, lessee. All these doors look the same, so I might as well try the first one on the left.  Man I'm going to kill that rear end in a top hat so dead.  : I am Kaiwan, but I'm not the one with the Kila. Can't you tell the difference, fool!? So I might get to kill him multiple times. That's... almost an enjoyable prospect. Almost. *: He uses Evil Gaze, which is Death-type effect that reduces a target's health to 1. Ouch. I immediately dismiss any ally hit, but we still manage to beat him before he can actually kill someone. Did I mention I'm glad I have a healer that can't run out of MP? In any case, we return to the main corridor. There must be a trick to this, but I'll be damned if I can remember it. Hmm. I observe the glowing, pulsating circular symbols on the walls and doors, but they all seem to shine in unison. I examine every door closely, but if there's a different one, I'm not seeing the difference. I even try to go back to the cube maze in case Kaiwan escaped there without my notice, but there's nothing there either. I return to the empty treasure room in case the only way to win is not to play, but it's still empty. I must be missing something. I guess I might as well keep opening doors. Hmm, the southwestern one is empty. Second northern one...  : Well, I guess it suits you... Hahahahahaha! *: So, a single Kelpie. It only gets one turn, which it spends healing itself, but it's not enough to survive us. quote:Fairy Kelpie Maybe the trick is that there is no trick and I'm just wasting time. Next door!  : Sounds good to me, but I'll believe it when you're dead. : ...Playtime's over.Mid-boss battle: Night Kaiwan *: Huh, I figured there'd be some dastardly trick to deal with so I made sure to record the fight, but they pretty much went down like chumps. Well, it's just more evidence that Momunofu is made of awesome and win. quote:Night Kaiwan  Finally, we can get out of this madhouse. Or, well, we can get deeper in the madhouse, as the case may be. *: We make another round trip to Shibuya, then we return to the pillar room, and use the remaining Kilas.      So, deeper it is, then.  *: And that's an Eligor in a random encounter. Guy musta got a battlefield demotion. : Look, you're pretty strong. But maybe you need someone to do the thinking for you, you know what I mean?: You wish me to join your ranks?: I'm offering you an opportunity here.*: He takes a bunch of money, but only ends up healing Zed. : Cheerio.> Eligor left.  Man, you can say what you want about the Mantra, but at least their elevators were slightly more convenient than this. *: We run into Incubi on a Full Moon, and as I see them use Evil Eye and Life Drain on our party... : I'm really going to have to make sure you get some training, huh?: We'll get to spend so much time together, boss!: Oh boy.  Great, more of this. *: Hikawa is on B15, and we're only on B14. We've got a bit further to go.  : Nihilo aren't making the best use of your talents, huh? In any case, no, I don't think so.: I suppose I can be happy with that.> Eligor is content. : ...Very well, then. I'm Eligor of the Fallen lineage. Take me with you.: I'm impressed to see you deal so kindly with your former enemies.: If I'm going to change the world, like every other critter I meet seems to believe, I probably ought not to behave like everyone else does. *: Oooh, Dark Might. It's like Bright Might, but works for new K instead of full. In any case, I'm really glad I managed to recruit this guy, even if only because visually it's one of my favorites. Call me boring if you like, I know it's "dude in red armor on black horse", I 'on't care. There are a couple Cubes around, with Sacred Water and a Revival Bead inside. A bit further, there's another Mystical Chest.  > Let it continue? : Don't let me stop you, broseph. You've more than earned your freedom to turn into whatever you like.   quote:Lv30 Vile Arahabaki *: Unfortunately, Arahabaki can't keep Brutal Slash, because it doesn't have a weapon anymore. In the same fight, Koppa learns Watchful, and starts to show signs of change. Dis can also evolve later, so that's still two locked in my party, heh. The Chest contains a Balm of Rising, which revives a party member with full HP.  And that's the whole floor, with only an elevator left in the middle northern part.    There's another small terminal on the side. This has got to be the end.   We could probably go straight to the core, but there are rooms on the sides that I want to check out first. The encounter gauge is back to blue, so it's not dangerous yet.  Oh wait, you can't actually go around, those doors are only accessible through the core itself. Welp, that simplifies things. Strong power, will you enter, etc. etc.   : Hikawa. : You should keep closer watch on your staff, they're practically all on my side by now. : I'm still a free agent, no matter what Gozu-Tennoh's people have been telling anyone.  : Yeah, I'm pretty amazing in general. : And judging by your appearance... you've gained considerable power. : For many reasons, only one of which is any of your business. : Nobody else in this drat world seems to have any idea what's really going on, and an associate of mine thinks you're the one with all the answers. I'm skeptical myself, but here's your chance to prove me wrong.: ...I see. Even though I nearly killed you, you've tracked me down to obtain the answers you seek.  : I commend you for reaching this place on your own. If it is truth that you seek, then I will reveal everything... all there is to know of this world. Cutscene + Boss battle: The Nightmare System*: Not a lot to say about this fight, really. Makarakarn reflects all spells until the start of the user's party's next round, but in this case it was just a question of having everyone punch him for a bit. Ose can also use Tetrakarn, which reflects all physical damage in the same way, but we had plenty of magic damage so it would have been even less of a problem. The biggest threat is Focus + Heat Wave, and he can max out Sukukuja stacks if you let him, but Matador and Dante forced us to deal with a lot worse than that. quote:Fallen Ose Dammit, did Hikawa get away?  : How's it feel to be thrown away just to delay me, hmm? : But, you will never be able to find our commander, or the Maiden. The Nightmare System has been activated. This base will soon be closed down, and the way to the Maiden will be lost forever...: To hell with that! I'm finding Ms. Takao no matter what Cheetahmen rejects like you think they have to say about it!: Begone, demon! It is we, the Assembly of Nihilo, who will create the new world!!*: A flash of light surges from Ose's body.  Dammit! They won't be rid of me that easily!  > The door is tightly shut. Gah!  : Hey. Um, I'm sorry to interrupt, but... : No you're not.: Okay, I'm not. But are we really going to let this slide?*: I'm... I'm sure I don't know what you're talking about. : It sure looks like the Mantra are going to die from lack of Magatsuhi.*: That... would appear to be the case. : It's strange, I seem to recall someone talking about how Magatsuhi is specifically not required for demons to live, that's it's not an essential nutrient or some other such highfalutin verbiage.: Now that you mention it, I do remember that too.*: Ah, well. There's a perfectly valid explanation for that. : This ought to be good. Let's hear it then.*: I hosed up. : Oh! Is that what it was?*: Yes, quite. I done hosed up, son. I apologize. Are you happy? : A little bit, not gonna lie.*: Well, since we're talking about remembering times from the past when mistakes were made, I do seem to recall a reckless young man killing the Four Heavenly Kings who were protecting Tokyo from God's wrath, just because they were there, therefore allowing a great flood to take place and causing the death of thousands and... : ...ah. Yes. Well. That doesn't really have anything to do with...*: Oh I'm just putting things in perspective. : That's a little petty, man.: ...: In fact that's more than a little petty. You feel bad about temporary misleading the Internet, so you bring up accidental near-genocide? You know what the fellow's been through, that's out of line.*: Aw, cripes, you're right. Sorry mang. : It's... It's fine. I'm over it by now. Things got... things got better, didn't they?*: You're made of strong stuff. : Now kiss!: What the hell?*: Yikes. No. : Nobody needs to see that.*: Aaaaanyway.  Anathema is a spellcaster-oriented Magatama; one might think of it as the opposite of Ankh. The first skill it would teach us is Mana Drain, which is fairly tempting, if not exactly something we'd keep until the end.  : Apparently not.: I heard that a bunch of Magatsuhi was sucked up from Ikebukuro!!I'm not going to pretend I care about about Gozu-Tennoh and his jocks, but Isamu's still in there! I gotta go back. But... Ms. Takao... Hell. One problem at a time. *: We return to Ginza. A quick look around seems to indicate that no one has anything new to say, so we go to the Terminal and teleport directly to Ikebukuro.  We can't get back to the Nihilo terminal through here either.   : ...We didn't lose, did we?*: As we enter the Mantra headquarters...   : Chiaki! : Holy crap, what are you doing here? : I heard about the trial by combat, and I thought it might be you who was the winner.: Well, I appreciate your confidence, but this is still a really dangerous place!: Getting here was tough, to say the least, but I'm glad I made it.    : I'm listening, Chiaki.: I decided to play by the rules of this world.: I can hardly blame you for that. I... I've been playing by the world's rules ever since I woke up in the hospital.: You know what the purpose of this new world is, right?: Yeah. I do now. : ...: ...You probably think I'm crazy.: I don't think there's such a thing as crazy anymore. : ...that voice I heard when the world changed... : Yeah, I heard it. Kagutsuchi's voice.     Music: Chiaki      : Not just about what I have to do in this world, but why the world ended up like this. And then, I realized... that there were too many unnecessary things occupying the previous world.: ...unnecessary? : But, nothing new was being made. Time passed, and nothing changed. What the world really needed... it was not getting.  : But, I survived the Conception. I was chosen... That's what I'm going to believe, and now, I have to look forward. : ...but if I can swallow it down... endless possibilities await... The power of creation... will be mine.       : The world doesn't need any more worthless things... That's why I want to create my ideal society... a paradise ruled by the strong, the chosen... The world of Yosuga. *: And we come to another decision. Maybe the world really was running out of juice, its potential lost or squandered. Maybe it needs the strong, the chosen, the fated, to remake it in a more... a more vigorous form. A more meaningful form. Or maybe Chiaki's just putting a fresh coat of paint on the Mantra philosophy, such as it was. Or maybe it's best not to get involved in that nonsense either way. What say you? Kagutsuchi is watching.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2015 23:09
|
|
|
Oh man, this dungeon is one of my least favorites, in part due to that gigantic multi-layer puzzle room. I have to look up a walkthrough every time because I'm just so bad at it and don't want to spend hours stuck inside puzzle hell. But Ose is a cool dude, so he makes up for some of it. As for Chiaki, I don't see her point.
|
|
#
?
Dec 1, 2015 23:51
|
|
|
God, I had forgotten all about the annoying Kaiwan until I read your update. Pain in the rear end dungeon for sure, but then, it's crap like that which I like to think helped define SMT Nocturne. Also, and maybe it's just me, but the core where you confront Hikawa seems to have a very lazy background. It reminds me of the cyberworld in Mega Man Battle Network, which uses the same simple pictures for its wallpaper-like backdrops. As for you, Chiaki...I just don't know what to tell you. You're lucky you're a main cast member, or a frail-looking creepy schoolgirl like yourself would never survive demon disney land.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2015 00:07
|
|
|
The point Chiaki's trying to make...I'm not really seeing her point of view. Not only does it seem like she'd be thrown under the bus in the world she wants to design, but it's obvious that she's gaining a massive god complex and is just trying to rationalize it.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2015 00:40
|
|
|
Chiaki...Chiaki...Chiaki...I don't know what to tell you. Maybe you're right. Maybe you're wrong. Or perhaps...you're half and half. The world needs strength, yes, but losing compassion and soul...I don't think I could live in that world.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2015 01:32
|
|
|
Chiaki, I get your point, I really do, it's just that it's untenable. The world for the strong has been tried before but it's never panned out.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2015 01:50
|
|
|
I don't know want to say, seeing as how your friend has jumped on the social Darwinism bandwagon really, really fast (especially for someone who is very much at the bottom of the pecking order at the moment). e: also, I have to add that I'm a fan of this game solely because despite all the mythical monsters and arcane magic being thrown around, your biggest source of damage is to psyche yourself up and punch a twelve-foot demon in the dick. 
ManlyGrunting fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Dec 2, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2015 04:21
|
|
|
I don't see her point. It sounds like she's picked the most obvious answer to this world's problems, and there has to be something better out there. We should at least find the teacher lady before making a big decision like this; that seems to be DF's major goal right now, at any rate.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2015 05:12
|
|
|
I'm a bit confused by Hikawa's pre-boss-fight banter. Did he really have enough juice stored up to, basically, win the game right then and there, only to squander it all being a petty dick to the Mantra? And now, some (hopefully) deep thoughts. So far, Nocturne is telling a very different story than SMT1. In the first game, we had a deep connection with all of the primary characters. Not only did the Law Hero, the Chaos Hero, and the Heroine all spend chunks of time in our party, we interacted with them as equals in a story-telling sense. By the time lines in the sand were drawn, it wasn't about choosing which side, if either, was right; it was about which friend(s) we would ultimately have to kill to defend our beliefs. In Nocturne, the game practically begins by saying 'so you have some friends whoops the apocalypse happens'. The first thing that happens after that is that we're made into something unique: not fully human, not fully demon. And by the time we interact again with our fellow survivors, they've all adapted, in many ways, better than we have to this new reality. At first, I was thinking of this as a weakness in Nocturne's story, that we're not allowed to develop the attachments for the other characters that the main character would supposedly have, and that the choices we'll have to make in the future don't hold that weight. On review, though, I think that's deliberate. The protagonist of Nocturne, I think, hasn't been isolated from his friends and made into something apart from everyone else. In a way, he always was.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2015 09:17
|
|
|
FredMSloniker posted:On review, though, I think that's deliberate. The protagonist of Nocturne, I think, hasn't been isolated from his friends and made into something apart from everyone else. Nocturne is a very lonely game. There are no "people" in your party; it's just you and your demons. No other "party members" like the Heroine or the fifth party members in IV. (which were a pain in the rear end, by the way)
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2015 10:23
|
|
|
Well, I don't see your point, since, as recent events have shown, that kind of philosophy only tends to produce a bunch of dumbass meatheads who spends all their time fighting endlessly among each other in order to proclaim who is the biggest douche on poo poo mountain.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2015 10:33
|
|
|
I don't see your point Chiaki, it sucks. Chiaki's plans are something she hasn't really thought thoroughly as far as she thinks she has. Dr.Snark said it best in a way. She's reacting to losing everything but her own survival gave her a god complex to try to rationalize her pain and how she resolved it with a might makes right sort of world. How does it work for a world of people who eventually CAN'T fight or survive in the world of the fittest? Besides; with the Mantra and what we've seen them do; I don't think it'd be a sane decision to create a world like that. Immediate gains, but long term losses. FredMSloniker posted:I'm a bit confused by Hikawa's pre-boss-fight banter. Did he really have enough juice stored up to, basically, win the game right then and there, only to squander it all being a petty dick to the Mantra? Mindless morons being a threat to your operations through sheer force can be disturbing if left unchecked. Blasting them now sets him back; but it also gets rid of a threat he may lose out on. Sometimes a force can be so overwhelming that no tactics will get around it. Or worse, the Mantra get organized under a ruler and they go after Hikawa with a solid plan in mind. Best to take the setback and lose a bit of time. Far as he knows; outside of the demi-fiend, who else is going to collect Magatsuhi? I don't think they're adapting well except for Hikawa, and considering the conception and the fact that he can apparently summon demons, he's probably planned this out. Chiaki's just reacting to the pain she's feeling by dealing more out and Isamu's doing jack poo poo like any normal human probably would in a demon infested world. Ms.Takao's still MIA and Hijiri's only learning from the Amala Terminal as opposed to really doing anything. Tactless Ogre fucked around with this message at 12:12 on Dec 2, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2015 11:52
|
|
|
[deleted because double posted]
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2015 12:12
|
|
|
Following along this LP, and I've gotta say it's been a very pleasant read so far. Not only has this game aged admirably, but you're also keeping it fresh with some fine writing and cool demon dialogues. Keep it up. For a supposedly intelligent gal, Chiaki didn't put much thought into that one. I don't see her point. Besides, if we don't follow the power trip of the giant statue that commands hordes of monsters and gave us sweet demon slots, why should we follow the girl whose biggest achievements were not dying, and summoning a classroom?
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2015 12:45
|
|
|
So here we see that this SMT deviates from the usual Chaos/Law story progression. Mantra and Nihilo are Chaos/Law, respectively, or at least they enshrine some of the ideals and end goals that the classic factions had. But they arent staffed by the usual suspects. Even Thor, Mr. I Nuked Tokyo for YHWH's Glory, is on the seemingly Chaos side, and the Nihilo isnt staffed by various angels, but by Hell's aristocracy, sharing one thing in that there is a hierachy in both Angels and the Demonic Aristocracy. Chiaki is also the usual SMT archetype of weak person trying to achieve a world they would be instantly stomped on by. But her greatest deviation from that is that she, at least not openly, does not resent and loathe her own form and weakness. Now a lot is still to come, and we havent even met the full cast, but knowing that this is an SMT game these would probably be the expectations that you start with. And Im glad the game subverts them. It does start out feeling familiar, but different. Rigged Death Trap fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Dec 2, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2015 13:44
|
|
|
FredMSloniker posted:In Nocturne, the game practically begins by saying 'so you have some friends whoops the apocalypse happens'. The first thing that happens after that is that we're made into something unique: not fully human, not fully demon. And by the time we interact again with our fellow survivors, they've all adapted, in many ways, better than we have to this new reality. At first, I was thinking of this as a weakness in Nocturne's story, that we're not allowed to develop the attachments for the other characters that the main character would supposedly have, and that the choices we'll have to make in the future don't hold that weight. They do have a lack of presence. Though I think, perhaps, it was for a different purpose. If you're not particularly attached to the characters, it allows you to make an honest decision about the Creation, based on what you really think, rather than who you like. Of course, in my opinion there is only one correct answer, so I don't agree with Chiaki.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2015 16:49
|
|
|
Rigged Death Trap posted:So here we see that this SMT deviates from the usual Chaos/Law story progression. Oh yeah, big time. Honestly, I have a hard time quantifying any of the reasons into Chaos/Law. It's almost like blue and orange morality in comparison.
|
|
#
?
Dec 2, 2015 20:57
|
|
|
Dang, lotsa good points in here. Always a pleasure to read.Digital Jello posted:God, I had forgotten all about the annoying Kaiwan until I read your update. Pain in the rear end dungeon for sure, but then, it's crap like that which I like to think helped define SMT Nocturne. Also, and maybe it's just me, but the core where you confront Hikawa seems to have a very lazy background. It reminds me of the cyberworld in Mega Man Battle Network, which uses the same simple pictures for its wallpaper-like backdrops. RPG dungeons often fall into a predictable and boring pattern; fundamentally, they're a long succession of forks, each having a side that leads to a dead-end that may or may not have loot, and the other side leading to either a boss battle or another identical fork. Nocturne doesn't always escape this pattern, but when it does, it does so in an interesting way, if also sometimes in an annoying way. But even then, it's still a cut above the forks archetype. As for the core background, it just strikes me as being intentionally spartan and utilitarian, which reflects the Shijima philosophy. The intense red/blue lighting is also looks like nothing we've seen yet. For my money it successfully depicts a large instrument that manipulates gigantic amounts of raw power and isn't intended to be aesthetically pleasing. Dr. Snark posted:The point Chiaki's trying to make...I'm not really seeing her point of view. Not only does it seem like she'd be thrown under the bus in the world she wants to design, but it's obvious that she's gaining a massive god complex and is just trying to rationalize it. There's something to that for sure, but she also believes that she's chosen, that she has a special fate, and that having a destiny like that is its own kind of power. The game doesn't really mention this outside of Isamu talking about Chiaki as being difficult to please on account of her upbringing, but, and I quote the instruction manual here... "Born and raised in an upper-class family, she has a habit of talking down to people." (It's pretty much the only character detail mentioned in the manual that isn't so explicit in the actual game. I suspect she may have had a particular speech mannerism in the original Japanese that didn't carry over in translation.) She's had that notion that she's more important than most even before the world ended, and it's probably bubbling to the surface and amplified now that she's regained her composure. Kemix posted:The world needs strength, yes, but losing compassion and soul...I don't think I could live in that world. That was exactly my reasoning when I first played the game. The Reasons that we have learned of so far, Shijima and Yosuga, can be defined by what they are ("world of stillness and harmony", "world of the strong and useful", respectively), but they can also be very precisely defined by what they are lacking ("world without passion" and "world without compassion"). FredMSloniker posted:I'm a bit confused by Hikawa's pre-boss-fight banter. Did he really have enough juice stored up to, basically, win the game right then and there, only to squander it all being a petty dick to the Mantra? There's kind of a three part answer to that. First off, I seem to remember that something will happen in the world when the conditions for Creation are met, so it's probably safe to assume Nihilo didn't have enough Magatsuhi stored up to start the process yet. Second, the Mantra are extracting Magatsuhi from Manikins, so they control a resource that could be of use to any potential competitors. And third, well, it's about Hikawa himself. He's a bit of a contradiction. He's passionate about eradicating passion. Do look back at his introductory cutscene, and mind his body language. There's definitely a serenity about him that translates into an economy of movement. He's even in a swivel chair that can pivot with just a slight push of the foot. But that's not all. There are his fingers drumming deliberately on his armrest, the sharp, theatrical gesture for his summoning, and the twitch of his eyebrow when Ms. Takao threatens him. He could have told us to leave the hospital, but he almost instantly decided to ask a level 33 demon to murder us instead. The man is a caged tiger, pacing in a prison of his own making; what he is, is at odds with what he wants. There's a part of him that's just begging to slide a claw through the bars and take a swipe at something, anything, just to prove it can. His intellect is largely keeping it all in check, but when the Mantra come knocking, there is absolutely no way in hell he's going to clam up, play dead, and wait it out. It's a strange reference to make, but I'm reminded of the SHUT UP scene in Kindergarten Cop. It doesn't serve his greater purpose, and in fact it actively sets him back. But sometimes you just gotta tell the kids to STFU. FredMSloniker posted:On review, though, I think that's deliberate. The protagonist of Nocturne, I think, hasn't been isolated from his friends and made into something apart from everyone else. Yeah, I think that's well said. And in a subtle way, it ties in with what the Lady in Black said early on, about how she's been watching him for a long time. Whoever Lucifer chose to inherit the Magatama's power had to be able to cope immediately with being a Freak Unique, and to capitalize on that power without looking back. Even Chiaki practically admitted to succumbing to the weight of the new situation at first, even if only temporarily ("no matter how much I cry or shout, this nightmare won't end"). That said, there's another aspect to this isolation and alienation that hasn't come into play yet; when I originally came across this particular wrinkle that I can't talk about right now, it contributed to a lot to the path I ended up taking, possibly more than anything else. Tactless Ogre posted:I don't think they're adapting well except for Hikawa, and considering the conception and the fact that he can apparently summon demons, he's probably planned this out. Chiaki's just reacting to the pain she's feeling by dealing more out and Isamu's doing jack poo poo like any normal human probably would in a demon infested world. Ms.Takao's still MIA and Hijiri's only learning from the Amala Terminal as opposed to really doing anything. Hikawa definitely expected to be the only game in town; his every action points to making sure that once the Conception occured, his final victory would be inevitable. If Ms. Takao hadn't insisted, for whatever reason, on bringing her favorite students along for the ride (and if Hijiri hadn't been a, let's say for now, a special case), it very well might have been. As for adaptation, they all have their issues and problems of course, but the fact that they managed to survive as humans, without having the Magatama as a crutch of sorts, could kinda count for a lot depending on your perspective. Rigged Death Trap posted:Mantra and Nihilo are Chaos/Law, respectively, or at least they enshrine some of the ideals and end goals that the classic factions had. But they arent staffed by the usual suspects. Even Thor, Mr. I Nuked Tokyo for YHWH's Glory, is on the seemingly Chaos side, and the Nihilo isnt staffed by various angels, but by Hell's aristocracy, sharing one thing in that there is a hierachy in both Angels and the Demonic Aristocracy. I often hear Mantra/Nihilo interpreted as being Chaos/Law, and I can see value in that interpretation. But the way I see things, is that all branches of the path of creation are each some flavor of law; they're not so much about eliminating rules as much as they are about setting up new ones. It depends on whether you're looking at them as a comparisons to the real world (both ours and the fictional "real world" of the game), or as absolutes existing in a vacuum, and I would have a hard time calling either perspective invalid.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2015 00:41
|
|
|
That's an interesting point, but I've always sort of seen Law and Chaos as different sides of the same coin: Law is simply preservation of order as it is now and Chaos is the upheaval of it for a new one (or in other words, the odds are that Lucifer is going to make a world where he is safe if he wins and supplants Law entirely is pretty drat high: those in power like to keep power and for Joe Peasant there's not going to be a lot of difference in their life save for what might bring on any particular flavour of being crushed underfoot). Plus there's the fact that the biggest justification of both Law and Chaos are the monstrosity that occurs in the other (at least in IV, never played I, II or SJ), whereas in Nocturne other paths don't matter: there is no reaction to other paths, only your ideal world matters and only if you win; there is simply struggle with the other and a coherent end goal. It doesn't matter if the argument is security vs freedom or if the sides are arguing for the exact same world except one doesn't have smooth jazz and the other has free ice cream Fridays, the reasons are basically developed independently of each other instead of in direct opposition.
ManlyGrunting fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Dec 3, 2015 |
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2015 02:52
|
|
|
FrankZP posted:all branches of the path of creation are each some flavor of law; they're not so much about eliminating rules as much as they are about setting up new ones. huh. I like this interpretation. It makes sense that all of the reasons would be different flavors of law given the setting and the story when you take other things into consideration. 
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2015 05:30
|
|
|
ManlyGrunting posted:That's an interesting point, but I've always sort of seen Law and Chaos as different sides of the same coin: Law is simply preservation of order as it is now and Chaos is the upheaval of it for a new one (or in other words, the odds are that Lucifer is going to make a world where he is safe if he wins and supplants Law entirely is pretty drat high: those in power like to keep power and for Joe Peasant there's not going to be a lot of difference in their life save for what might bring on any particular flavour of being crushed underfoot). Plus there's the fact that the biggest justification of both Law and Chaos are the monstrosity that occurs in the other (at least in IV, never played I, II or SJ), whereas in Nocturne other paths don't matter: there is no reaction to other paths, only your ideal world matters and only if you win; there is simply struggle with the other and a coherent end goal. It doesn't matter if the argument is security vs freedom or if the sides are arguing for the exact same world except one doesn't have smooth jazz and the other has free ice cream Fridays, the reasons are basically developed independently of each other instead of in direct opposition. Hmm, that's a sensible point of view too. To some degree I'm tempted to use the well-being of the little people as a measuring stick, but even then that's more the domain of the Light/Dark alignment axis, and in SMT, the Light/Dark axis feels like a bit of a sardonic joke half the time. Alright, great input everyone. The votes are counted, and I'll be getting started on update-crafting in a jiffy.
|
|
#
?
Dec 3, 2015 20:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 20:46 |
|
|
FrankZP posted:That was exactly my reasoning when I first played the game. The Reasons that we have learned of so far, Shijima and Yosuga, can be defined by what they are ("world of stillness and harmony", "world of the strong and useful", respectively), but they can also be very precisely defined by what they are lacking ("world without passion" and "world without compassion"). I find it pretty interesting that both of the Reasons we've encountered so far would end up crushing the people who are proposing them. It feels thematically coherent too; pretty much every major character we've met so far bar maybe Isamu has a lot of (unconscious?) arrogance to them, and hubris is always its own worst enemy. I wonder if this will hold to the others we encounter- there's still Isamu and Takao to handle, and presumably the protag will get his own ideal at some point. You said there's five normal endings, right? That'd leave spaces for picking each of the four humans and going alone, with the added Lucifer content for the traditional Chaos "gently caress y'all I make my own rules" path.
|
|
#
?
Dec 4, 2015 00:49
|
|
