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oldpainless posted:How did sting get a title shot when he has literally zero wins on his record? Seems pretty fishy to me. he was rightfully murdered for this transgression
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Dec 8, 2015 06:23
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it's about what's best for business not what's fair, like many other sports
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Dec 8, 2015 07:16
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Who created the iconic Cactus Jack shirt? I ask because I bought mine from an ECW show in 2000. I thought it was odd then and now.
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Dec 8, 2015 07:49
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Gavok posted:Part of Ryder's downfall seemed to be that he came up with a gimmick that worked, but he never really figured out the character. He knew what he was, but when it came time to say who he was, he just went blank and fell back on his catchphrases. That never stopped The Rock. The man could cut a 15 minute promo that was nothing but catchphrases.
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Dec 8, 2015 08:26
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the rock is not an instructive comparison for anyone
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Dec 8, 2015 08:38
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Yeah the Rock is just ultra gifted at that poo poo. New Day does similar stuff but it literally requires 3 of them to cut one Rock caliber catchphrase promo.
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Dec 8, 2015 09:13
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I'm just a softie for Ryder. He's pretty solid in the ring even if his character's a joke.
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Dec 8, 2015 10:23
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Jokes aside, what was the holographic image supposed to be that ruined the Ambrose/Rollins Cell match? I could never make out much detail.
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Dec 8, 2015 11:35
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Xerzes posted:Jokes aside, what was the holographic image supposed to be that ruined the Ambrose/Rollins Cell match? I could never make out much detail. I'm pretty sure it was supposed to be Wyatt.
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Dec 8, 2015 13:07
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Under the vegetable posted:I'm just a softie for Ryder. He's pretty solid in the ring even if his character's a joke.
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Dec 8, 2015 16:08
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Halloween Jack posted:The WWE roster can only feature so many wrestlers, and plenty have come and gone who were probably not outstanding enough, both in the ring and on the mic, to be enduring stars even if the WWE was really a meritocracy. But that doesn't mean it's alright to actively sabotage talent. I don't know why, but whenever this comes up it seems someone always says "It's okay because he wasn't Daniel Bryan caliber." I don't think it was "ok" but since WWE either actively or ignorantly sabotages pretty much all of their talent (many of whom are better than Ryder) and have for years he's not one I'd consider particularly high on my list to feel regretful about
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Dec 8, 2015 16:23
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Aesop Poprock posted:I don't think it was "ok" but since WWE either actively or ignorantly sabotages pretty much all of their talent (many of whom are better than Ryder) and have for years he's not one I'd consider particularly high on my list to feel regretful about It's just more noticeable because he was one of the first cases of explicit hypocrisy on their part. You gotta get over on your own, gotta connect with the people, grab the brass ring... as long as we got you over and decided you connect, otherwise get in the fuckin' hole while we back up the truck full of dirt.
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Dec 8, 2015 16:33
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The funniest thing about Ryder was that they stuck him in the Kane storyline and then immediately put Santino in a bunch of storylines that felt mapped out for Ryder (winning the US Title again, being Teddy Long's assistant, almost beating Daniel Bryan at Elimination Chamber). It was like they find-replaced Ryder's name with Santino's.
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Dec 8, 2015 16:35
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Gaz-L posted:grab the brass ring
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Dec 8, 2015 16:37
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Aesop Poprock posted:I don't think it was "ok" but since WWE either actively or ignorantly sabotages pretty much all of their talent (many of whom are better than Ryder) and have for years he's not one I'd consider particularly high on my list to feel regretful about Ryder's case was notable because of how absolutely blatant it was. In the curious case of Zach Ryder, you just saw that this wasn't bad booking or lazy booking or apathethic booking. That was outright malevolent booking. A dude was punished for having the nerve to endear himself to the fans, which said a lot about how the WWE really sees its 'universe'.
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Dec 8, 2015 16:40
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Under the vegetable posted:That never stopped The Rock. The man could cut a 15 minute promo that was nothing but catchphrases. Yeah, but he didn't have to. He was capable of cutting a good promo that could sell you on whatever when he wanted to. He'd begin with a "FINALLY!", end with an "IF YA SMELL" and have a "GUARAN-drat-TEE" and "MILLIONS" sprinkled somewhere in there, but he still usually had something to say. Ryder, not so much. Jericho: NO! THIS IS NOT A JOKE! I AM NOT A JOKE! I AM SERIOUS! And you will not look past me, you stupid son of a bitch! Ryder: Whoa, are you serious, bro? Woo, woo, woo, you know it! *"Oh Radio" plays and they go to a commercial*
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Dec 8, 2015 16:51
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ChrisBTY posted:Ryder's case was notable because of how absolutely blatant it was.
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Dec 8, 2015 16:51
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Alright, since we're already in this line of conversation. What were some other notable blatant attempts at sabotaging a wrestler's career/image over the years? I know this is a hard subject because in wrestling a lot of really stupid things are just that; stupid, not malicious. The only ones that jump out at me are "Adorable" Adrian Adonis and Polka-dotted Dusty Rhodes.
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Dec 8, 2015 16:59
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The utter fascination with Zack Ryder will never fail to amaze me.
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Dec 8, 2015 16:59
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ChrisBTY posted:Alright, since we're already in this line of conversation. Dusty was more a case of revenge than actual sabotoge to be honest. Petty, but a year or two at the very tail end of a 3 decade long career isn't exactly chopping someone's career short. There was that APA match with Public Enemy.
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Dec 8, 2015 17:05
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ChrisBTY posted:Alright, since we're already in this line of conversation. They tried several times with Daniel Bryan, notably sticking him with the bellas early on to make him look like a huge dork, having Cole mock him specifically on commentary, having him lose matches in embarassing quick ways, trying to get the word "turd" associated with him, etc. It was by far the biggest backlash towards that style of booking from the fans probably in wrestling history because of how blatantly they were trying to make fans uninterested in him. Unlike Ryder it just seemed to make DB try harder though.
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Dec 8, 2015 17:10
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ChrisBTY posted:Alright, since we're already in this line of conversation.
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Dec 8, 2015 17:13
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St Evan Echoes posted:Dave was just talking last week about how Daniel Bryan and Low Ki were both undermined and sabotaged right from the start of their NXT runs They even did the same "pair the guy up with tall attractive women because hahaha short rear end ugly dorks" thing with low Ki right after doing it with Bryan
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Dec 8, 2015 17:14
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6EQUJ5 6 7 posted:Who created the iconic Cactus Jack shirt? I ask because I bought mine from an ECW show in 2000. I thought it was odd then and now. Mick discussed it in his first book, he had it made during his ECW run and it caught on with that crowd. He brought it with him when he started doing Cactus Jack in the WWF.
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Dec 8, 2015 17:24
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ChrisBTY posted:What were some other notable blatant attempts at sabotaging a wrestler's career/image over the years? I know this is a hard subject because in wrestling a lot of really stupid things are just that; stupid, not malicious. This didn't really hurt his career because he was an absolute nothing, but Mike Jones getting gimmicks as "Virgil" and "Vincent" is amusing. Probably the worst case of someone's career getting deliberately hosed with is everything Flair had to endure in WCW in the late 90s. Like Dusty, Flair had of course had a long career at that point and went on to do other things. But it was almost as if the booking committee was deliberately trying to answer the question "How badly do we have to gently caress with Flair before no one will pay to see a WCW show in Charlotte?" Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Dec 8, 2015 |
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Dec 8, 2015 17:30
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Have the Bella Twins ever done anything good and cool in pro wrestling? I can't remember any times they were enjoyable, just bad matches and awful segments with worse acting.
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Dec 8, 2015 17:47
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rotinaj posted:Have the Bella Twins ever done anything good and cool in pro wrestling? I can't remember any times they were enjoyable, just bad matches and awful segments with worse acting. Nikki carried two decent matches with Charlotte that would have been good if not for the finish throwing out all the psychology up to that point
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Dec 8, 2015 18:05
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Nehru the Damaja posted:Nikki carried two decent matches with Charlotte that would have been good if not for the finish throwing out all the psychology up to that point Which matches, specifically? I want to watch them.
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Dec 8, 2015 18:08
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rotinaj posted:Have the Bella Twins ever done anything good and cool in pro wrestling? I can't remember any times they were enjoyable, just bad matches and awful segments with worse acting. I think Nikki is a decent wrestler now. Brie pulling out tissue from her bra to show she's not Nikki was cool. Their little dance when they come out was good.
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Dec 8, 2015 18:10
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Can't find them at work but they were fairly recent. The ppv matches where Charlotte won the title and then defended for the rematch.
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Dec 8, 2015 18:10
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Funny, that. I bring this up because I just watched the recent Botchamania episode with their Hell in the Cell match on it.
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Dec 8, 2015 18:48
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Bam Bam Bigelow got buried in 1995. He did the job to Lawrence Taylor at Wrestlemania 11 and was supposed to be rewarded for doing so. Instead, they turned him face. Now while this may not seem like a big deal, his face gimmick was Diesel's lackey. Plus, he was about 9th or 10th on the face depth charts. This meant that he was mainly used to put over heels, and his WWF tenure quietly came to an end at the end of 1995 after jobbing to Goldust.
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Dec 8, 2015 18:50
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ChrisBTY posted:Alright, since we're already in this line of conversation. Who better than Kanyon?
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Dec 8, 2015 19:27
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CopywrightMMXI posted:Bam Bam Bigelow got buried in 1995. He did the job to Lawrence Taylor at Wrestlemania 11 and was supposed to be rewarded for doing so. Instead, they turned him face. Now while this may not seem like a big deal, his face gimmick was Diesel's lackey. Plus, he was about 9th or 10th on the face depth charts. This meant that he was mainly used to put over heels, and his WWF tenure quietly came to an end at the end of 1995 after jobbing to Goldust. Goldust also eventually got screwed over by management, but I believe that was because of external pressure over having a gay gimmick heeling it up. Austin said on his podcast that when you're getting your gimmick over, but management asks you to turn it down, that 's the kiss of death. And it was 100% a company gimmick to start.
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Dec 8, 2015 20:09
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Ricky "the Dragon" Steamboat was made an actual dragon for a while, because Vince can't leave well enough alone. Sheamus got the "King Sheamus" gimmick, and Finlay got the midget, which were both attempts by Kevin Dunn to destroy them as I understand. The Nexus angle had one really hot night and then was slowly buried from that point onward. As an aside, apparently either Vince or Stephanie were surprised and annoyed that Bryan didn't care that he was fired, since even at that point he was making more money on the indies.
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Dec 8, 2015 20:19
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Halloween Jack posted:But was that a deliberate sabotage because of backstage issues? IIRC The Clique told Vince "Man, you can't push a guy who lost to a football player!"
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Dec 8, 2015 20:22
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ChrisBTY posted:Alright, since we're already in this line of conversation. But Adonis & Dusty were able to take those bad gimmicks and make it work. Red Rooster was a poo poo gimmick that didn't work, but they continued to push for like 6 months. Did you know that the Red Rooster was on Hogan's team at the Survivor Series that year?
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Dec 8, 2015 20:51
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Halloween Jack posted:But was that a deliberate sabotage because of backstage issues? I'd say it was likely deliberate. The clique involvement has already been mentioned, and they had quite a bit of influence at the time.
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Dec 8, 2015 21:02
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ChrisBTY posted:Alright, since we're already in this line of conversation. Most everyone in The Alliance EDIT: And having Stone Cold come out with a pillow and blanket and calling Lance Storm boring during his matches.
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Dec 8, 2015 23:06
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reality_groove posted:And having Stone Cold come out with a pillow and blanket and calling Lance Storm boring during his matches. Actually that was good because Lance Storm shouldn't have success or be loved.
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Dec 8, 2015 23:13
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