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Bholder posted:Here lies the problem. Doing this mission in LW I succumbed to restarting many times. More of a 'this is my first LW campaign and everything is hosed' problem. My air game is a disaster and things are failure cascading. That was supposed to be one actually Easy Mission to help save me, but I'm not sure this campaign can be saved anymore. Mordaedil posted:You should probably watch a couple of Beaglerush videos to help figure out how you ought to play if you want to minimize casualties. My biggest problem with LW strategy has been throwing full cover to the wind because it doesn't matter. Everything is tankier and I will usually get bumrushed by 2+ pods on my first turn. Majority of of my missions play out right at the LZ. Once I activate a pod I want to kill that pod as aggressively as possible before the next one blunders into LOS during the first alien turn. I'd rather end my turn in half cover with an alien or 2 dead because it always gets worse when I'm not fully aggressive.
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Dec 14, 2015 11:31
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Mr. Unlucky posted:I was really excited for this game until I started watching some footage and realized it's being made by the same autists who created the clinical soulless board game that was the first one. They're repeating the same mistakes anyone could have avoided with 5 loving seconds of thought and they've had years to figure this poo poo out and it's like it didn't even occur to them. What a loving waste. Im confused here because XCOM2012 was a pretty good spiritual successor to the original. What were you expecting from Enemy Unknown? A cover based FPS with RPG-lite skill progression and realistic blood? Or maybe you really loved managing engineers and building a laser cannon based economic empire, and were hoping for Alien Warlord Tycoon (or Alien Containment Architect!)? Or are you with the 'BUT REALISM!!' crowd who wanted realistic bullet physics and dark, gritty moral dilemmas depicting the true toll of an alien invasion?
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Dec 14, 2015 11:52
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I must admit, I'm wondering the same. Or were you also hoping for a Grimdark Grimdark setting which takes the toil of war and cranks it up to Imperium of Mankind levels? Have to admit Not A Step, "Alien Warlord Tycoon (Alient Containment Architect)" sounds totally worth playing.
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Dec 14, 2015 11:56
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Thyrork posted:I must admit, I'm wondering the same. A Warhammer 40k Kill Team game done in the XCOM-style sounds pretty drat good too. And with how GW is literally throwing the video game license around these days...
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Dec 14, 2015 12:21
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Junpei posted:I DIDN'T MEAN IT LIKE THAT! gently caress your nickname, gently caress your posting and holy poo poo junpei, you are the worst poster stop just stop
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Dec 14, 2015 12:30
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Hunter Noventa posted:A Warhammer 40k Kill Team game done in the XCOM-style sounds pretty drat good too. And with how GW is literally throwing the video game license around these days... I was so excited when I saw a Warhammer 40k TBS game on Steam that looked really good graphically and got me very excited, then I watched a gameplay video and it plays like poo poo. Everything moves super slow, it basically feels like it ripped straight out of a tablet game interface and plays nothing like XCOM, despite that being a perfect fit for Warhammer 40k. I mean, they did it once before, ripping off UFO Defense to make a Warhammer 40k game, why not again?
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Dec 14, 2015 12:34
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Hunter Noventa posted:A Warhammer 40k Kill Team game done in the XCOM-style sounds pretty drat good too. And with how GW is literally throwing the video game license around these days... One of the dudes who posted in the now defunct GW is terrible thread in TG mentioned that when he worked for wargaming (you know world of tanks) he was part of a pitch to GW for a frozen synapse style game set in the 40k universe and they got turned down..
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Dec 14, 2015 12:40
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Mordaedil posted:I was so excited when I saw a Warhammer 40k TBS game on Steam that looked really good graphically and got me very excited, then I watched a gameplay video and it plays like poo poo. Everything moves super slow, it basically feels like it ripped straight out of a tablet game interface and plays nothing like XCOM, despite that being a perfect fit for Warhammer 40k. I mean, they did it once before, ripping off UFO Defense to make a Warhammer 40k game, why not again? Chaos Gate rocks! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DlxqWk0dHs
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Dec 14, 2015 13:33
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I wonder if it did so badly they considered it a failure and are now too afraid to take chances. You'd think these games would sort of write themselves.
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Dec 14, 2015 13:56
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Maybe this was back when Space Hulk was still in the works and they didn't want to have two competing products? They've actually released a number of similar games, mostly focused on mobile though. Fangz fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Dec 14, 2015 |
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Dec 14, 2015 14:07
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Hammerstein posted:Fallout 4's intellectual property department would like to have words with you. Meant weapon mods, not game mods.
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Dec 14, 2015 14:09
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Mordaedil posted:I wonder if it did so badly they considered it a failure and are now too afraid to take chances. I am quite certain that, ultimately, a lot of these things (at least the higher-profile and well-funded ones) only happen if they get permission from publisher, marketing and purely financial 'experts' and advisors as opposed to actual developers or fans. The fact that the XCOM IP came back the way it did (and led by Jake Solomon, a guy who is both a dev as well as a passionate, yet smart fan) is itself what I consider to be nothing less than an act of divine intervention. I still remember the blog posts from the former studio lead (Dave Ellis I think his name was or such) in 2003, which were utter doom and gloom and which detailed how Hasbro basically killed the whole franchise right there and then, before they didn't know what to do with it anymore and sold it off to Atari I think and then...it somehow came back full circle. Had all that poo poo not happened, neither would XCOM: EU or XCOM 2. And given from what I hear from the Warhammer franchise having all kinds of legal and financial considerations due to its longer history, it would not surprise me to hear it be the reason as to why these games don't just 'write themselves', as you put it. CrazyLoon fucked around with this message at 14:13 on Dec 14, 2015 |
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Dec 14, 2015 14:10
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Well, also, making a workable and fun squad turn based strategy game is not that easy, it turns out. They went through a lot of iterations to get to Enemy Unknown, and there's been a lot of mediocre games released that didn't show that level of care in the design. E.g. Omerta, Halfway, Falling Skies, Age of Decadence, and so on... (I'd append Massive Chalice and Xenonauts to this list, but that's probably more subjective.)
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Dec 14, 2015 14:17
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Fangz posted:Well, also, making a workable and fun squad turn based strategy game is not that easy, it turns out. Don't forget numerous attempts to revive Jagged Alliance.
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Dec 14, 2015 14:27
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Junpei posted:Meant weapon mods, not game mods. But there are weapon mods in XCOM2?  Like the one that gives a 5% chance to outright kill an enemy, or the one that gives a 5% chance that your shot doesn't use up an action.
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Dec 14, 2015 15:15
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The old ones like the one that makes the first reload a free action and the one that gives extra aim may still be around as well!
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Dec 14, 2015 15:17
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Fangz posted:Maybe this was back when Space Hulk was still in the works and they didn't want to have two competing products?
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Dec 14, 2015 15:17
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I made an honest attempt at doing a self-conduct iron man pass at Long War/Classic difficulty (since legit iron man was really annoying when various bugs popped up) and it was a lot of fun. I felt like I was chasing the difficulty curve pretty effectively, but I reached a point where a lot of missions seemed like they were on a razor's edge of going to complete hell with just one or two wrong moves. That was fun too, but at that point the iron man bit started slipping because I felt more like I was fighting the goofy LOS and cover mechanics than the aliens. For me, long war does a lot of stuff right and was definitely worth playing, but the tremendous number of missions and the tedium of having to conduct every mission and move near-perfect really wore me down. By the time I actually seemed to be getting the upper hand and most missions were running smooth with at worst a dead rookie, I didn't have the endurance for doing a hundred more UFO cleanups to finish slogging through the tech and psych trees. In closing, I don't think I have ever hated any video game character more than my incompetent piece of poo poo rocketeer who somehow climbed to tech sergeant over the corpses of countless squad mates that he either directly killed by firing his loving rockets into the backs of their heads, or indirectly by failing to hit anything at all. No number of accuracy perks and steadying aim turns could prevent him from defying the laws of physics and firing projectiles at 90 degree angles to the direction his launcher was pointing.
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Dec 14, 2015 15:34
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Proof that being bad and playing on easy is gaming nirvana
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Dec 14, 2015 15:42
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Regarding W40K XCOM, Games Workshop should just let anybody mod the universe into XCOM2 (instead of C&D them), then hire the guys who build it to make a stand alone game. Or something along those lines.
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Dec 14, 2015 15:43
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Fangz posted:Well, also, making a workable and fun squad turn based strategy game is not that easy, it turns out. I can attest to the iterative design, having mucked around in XCOMs guts quite a bit. There's left over code referring to half finished systems laying around. Longwar makes good use of many of those defunct variables. At a glance the game was supposed to have a 'weapon heat' system where continuous firing would have some kind of negative effect. Edit: I really wanted to like Mordheim, but it looks so slow and clunky. Not to mention the underlying systems seem obtuse and heavy on the RNG. Nix Panicus fucked around with this message at 16:22 on Dec 14, 2015 |
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Dec 14, 2015 16:02
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You can add Warmachine: Tactics to that list. Game is way too clunky when I first tried it. Haven't checked if they fixed some of those issues since, but can't be bothered due to the streamlining (or removal) of some key features from the boardgame along with the mass of dlc.
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Dec 14, 2015 16:31
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Hunter Noventa posted:A Warhammer 40k Kill Team game done in the XCOM-style sounds pretty drat good too. And with how GW is literally throwing the video game license around these days... EYE Divine Cybermancy is still the safer choice! 
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Dec 14, 2015 16:48
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Dervyn posted:You can add Warmachine: Tactics to that list. Game is way too clunky when I first tried it. Haven't checked if they fixed some of those issues since, but can't be bothered due to the streamlining (or removal) of some key features from the boardgame along with the mass of dlc. That is one thing I really liked about XCOM2012 (and conversely dislike about many of the other turn based squad games out there) was how streamlined and easily understood they made all of the core mechanics. I don't have to keep track of and optimize a half dozen different stats for my units. They have aim, will and hp (and move if Not Created Equal is on). All of those stats have fairly straight forward implementation. I understand theres a contingent of MORE NUMBERS people out there who would have preferred fifteen different stats to give a 'richer' experience, but frankly those people are having fun in the wrong way and should be shunned.
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Dec 14, 2015 17:01
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Thyrork posted:EYE Divine Cybermancy is still the safer choice! This will be the best mod. I would be partial to some oldschool poo poo like Bloodnet too, though a good cyberpunk is really going to need a big overhaul of the hacking mechanic. On the other hand you could introduce some special cyberspace only mission maps  Think the game could support two customization skins per character? One realspace skin and a cyberspace avatar?
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Dec 14, 2015 18:09
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I'm still waiting for a game to seamlessly merge X-Com's strategic layer with Fire Emblem's highly individualized soldiers and engaging storytelling. Fire Emblem x Com. I know Massive Chalice, I don't think it's very good though.
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Dec 14, 2015 20:34
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XCom 2 will have a mod that lets you pet your soldiers, don't worry.
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Dec 14, 2015 20:50
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Internet Kraken posted:XCom 2 will have a mod that lets you pet your soldiers, don't worry. Thank goodness. Having to edit texture files to make Doorn blush felt so artificial.
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Dec 14, 2015 21:06
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I don't want Xcom to change but I would totally play the poo poo out of a grimdark clone where you had to deal with the harsh realities of the poo poo you had to do to win. Xcom mixed with darkest dungeons could be cool.
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Dec 14, 2015 21:41
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Any time you go on a mission where you face an alien, your whole squad panics and gets PTSD forever.
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Dec 14, 2015 21:43
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DrManiac posted:I don't want Xcom to change but I would totally play the poo poo out of a grimdark clone where you had to deal with the harsh realities of the poo poo you had to do to win. Xcom mixed with darkest dungeons could be cool. Before they actually showed us how they intended to play (I mean before the kickstarter, even), I had convinced myself that Darkest Dungeon was already going to do that. So I'm right there with you.
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Dec 14, 2015 21:46
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Pwnstar posted:Any time you go on a mission where you face an alien, your whole squad panics and gets PTSD forever. How cool would it be if you had to let a otherwise good solider go because everyone on his squad hates him after he panicked and shot a teammate in?
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Dec 14, 2015 22:06
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It's like you all learned the exact wrong lessons from Long War's "let's beat you over the head with RNG at every opportunity" design choice
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Dec 14, 2015 22:46
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Psion posted:It's like you all learned the exact wrong lessons from Long War's "let's beat you over the head with RNG at every opportunity" design choice
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Dec 14, 2015 22:51
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Sanctum posted:My biggest problem with LW strategy has been throwing full cover to the wind because it doesn't matter. Everything is tankier and I will usually get bumrushed by 2+ pods on my first turn. Majority of of my missions play out right at the LZ. Once I activate a pod I want to kill that pod as aggressively as possible before the next one blunders into LOS during the first alien turn. I'd rather end my turn in half cover with an alien or 2 dead because it always gets worse when I'm not fully aggressive. I just got to plasma in a game ive had going for god knows how long the attrition is hell now, pods of muton elites doubling down on me with heavy floaters of course and mectoids cos why the hell not, my firestorms are barely holding together, i wont actually be able to build more than one plasma rifle without taking on a transport or something. Every plan ive made has fallen apart at this point, Med-bay sounds like a wwi trench hospital, i save scummed the capture of the base commander because i really deserved it. my brave warriors though... we have been through some poo poo
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Dec 14, 2015 22:51
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There's a pretty major difference between "gently caress you this only does what's advertised some of the time" and "Every once in a while you'll get a cool bonus" RNG.
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Dec 14, 2015 22:52
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DrManiac posted:How cool would it be if you had to let a otherwise good solider go because everyone on his squad hates him after he panicked and shot a teammate in? I'd be ok with this if the game gave me mental health as something to be actively managed and wove it into the overall strategy of the game in a way as fundamental as research or engineers. If soldiers needed recreation and therapy facilities between missions to recuperate before going out into the field (managing fatigue) with battlefield consequences for sending out stressed soldiers that might actually be interesting. Managing stress is a huge part of Darkest Dungeon and its an interesting mechanic there. But it would need to be woven into the game at its core, and not some dumb tacked on '35% chance to commit suicide' idiocy. Also it would need to be in a game that isn't XCOM, which is a cartoony action hero game at its heart. Even XCOM: Terrorist edition still looks closer to GI Joes than Spec Ops: The Line.
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Dec 14, 2015 22:59
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it'd own if your soldiers could request leave because their girlfriends are pregnant, but they never come back because they dont think the kid was theirs and they got arrested for domestic assault.
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Dec 14, 2015 23:01
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The cutesy way to deal with this in XCOM without it edging into  levels of SERIOUS GRITTY GAMEPLAY is fatigue, and as Not A Step put it;Not a Step posted:something to be actively managed and wove it into the overall strategy of the game in a way as fundamental as research or engineers. If soldiers needed recreation and therapy facilities between missions to recuperate before going out into the field (managing fatigue) with battlefield consequences for sending out stressed soldiers that might actually be interesting. Got mind controlled during a mission? That's going to suck more then coming back unharmed. Depending on the person it might be even worse then getting shot. That person had combat drugs? Actually they are okay, but they are going to need a few days off to get off the meds. On the other hand, combat drugged and panicking? That might be much worse then the regular panic. Effectively you would be bringing back willpower and ways to overcome willpower checks. Meanwhile trauma would have to be managed by letting your men and women sit out missions while they recuperate. You can force them to go anyway, but this will rot their willpower further.
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Dec 14, 2015 23:15
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How epic would it be if every once in a while there was a random unavoidable chance that a civvie who saw your base land would turn you in to the aliens and they'd nuke the Avenger before you got a chance to react and it was instant gameover and then your save was deleted.
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Dec 14, 2015 23:16
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