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JetsGuy posted:I dunno, I rewatched 1x10 last night and I just get increasingly angry at Jules' naivety. Christ on a cracker. Do you believe the tapes or not? Because your whole character's motivation is that these tapes are REALLLLL but not for this guy because reasons. I think going along with the theme of paralleling how 'real people' react, and possible life under fascism, and the alternate realities I see a perspective that (Joe film) this alternate Joe being a Nazi doesn't really imply her Joe is... Like how a few things change and we can be totally different people. I don't really buy OUR Joe executing all his friends, but that anyone has the capacity for this evil in different situations, or something. The highway patrolman for instance, good small town cop in our world, nazi thug in their world who shrugs about the crematoriums. I'm doing a terrible job saying it, but maybe from a certain perspective Jules isn't entirely naive and dumb?
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Dec 10, 2015 20:55
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Brother Friendship posted:I rewatched a scene from the finale and I saw something that cleared up a question I saw earlier in the thread. My only reservation about this interpretation is that the weapon plans in discussion were nuclear weapons plans. While thats possible, I think the idea of it being a tool to travel between the multiverse they established with the films that is confirmed as possible by Tagomi at the end, makes for a more interesting branch point. But it's well supported to be either, especially if this is all we get. The uranium deposits mapping implies the japanese want to level the playing field, the plans themselves are never made explicit what they're for, and it's possible that in bizzaro world they have other plans. They really left it vauge enough for them to take it in a couple different ways.
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Dec 10, 2015 20:55
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Question about 1x10 Who was the guy next to Frank in the execution tape? Juliana asks him if he recognized the guy and he said no but he seemed a little iffy about it, and I expected some kind of answer to that. Was there one?
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Dec 10, 2015 21:08
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Moose-Alini posted:I think going along with the theme of paralleling how 'real people' react, and possible life under fascism, and the alternate realities I see a perspective that (Joe film) this alternate Joe being a Nazi doesn't really imply her Joe is... Like how a few things change and we can be totally different people. I don't really buy OUR Joe executing all his friends, but that anyone has the capacity for this evil in different situations, or something. The highway patrolman for instance, good small town cop in our world, nazi thug in their world who shrugs about the crematoriums. No, Juliana is pretty bad. Joe is a total dick; don't forget that he has a girlfriend with a small child that he totally abandons and leaves for the Nazis to execute because he didn't get the tape, or maybe he did get the tape and is headed back to New York by way of Mexico and he just conned Juliana for the tape cause who the hell knows at this point but, Joe is a total dick.
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Dec 10, 2015 21:58
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I liked the show, but I can't help but think a show with this setting starring Lem and Karen would be better. They seem so much more competent and generally less lovely than the main characters we have.
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Dec 10, 2015 22:02
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Finished the show. Some thoughts: -I don't read sci-fi and I'm really disappointed that it looks like the show involves alternate universes. That 100% less interesting than a straight up alternative history. -Juliana is an idiot and Joe is boring. How many times did she make an awful decision that screwed things up for everyone else? -As usual, the villainous characters were more interesting than the heroes. The show did a great job making you root for Literally Hitler and then regret it. The high-level machinations to avoid war were way more interesting than anything involving White Love Triangle. I don't think this was bad per se but I'm not sure if I'll watch the second season if the show goes full on weird sci-fi from here.
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Dec 10, 2015 22:17
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Tater Love 
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beejay posted:Question about 1x10 I took it as she was asking who the guy was shooting everyone. At first the face is hard to make out before it's revealed to be Joe. radical meme posted:No, Juliana is pretty bad. Joe is a total dick; don't forget that he has a girlfriend with a small child that he totally abandons and leaves for the Nazis to execute because he didn't get the tape, or maybe he did get the tape and is headed back to New York by way of Mexico and he just conned Juliana for the tape cause who the hell knows at this point but, Joe is a total dick. She loves him and just is letting that get in the way of her decision making process. And yes, Joe is a horrendous human being but it does seem the writers are trying to make it "ambiguous" just because he doesn't want to kill this one girl. So I guess they both are, and so we have TV drama and we have a stupid character conflict that will not resolve itself or resolve itself badly. It just distracts from the whole show though which is otherwise great.
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Dec 10, 2015 22:44
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Joe needs to make up his drat mind because he's trying to have it both ways. He's too boring to be a leading man and not hard-edged enough to be believable as a Nazi. What motivates him to work for the government in the first place. Patriotism? Racism? We have no idea because he never displays emotions of any kind.
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Dec 10, 2015 22:50
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zakharov posted:I don't think this was bad per se but I'm not sure if I'll watch the second season if the show goes full on weird sci-fi from here. zakharov posted:He's too boring to be a leading man and not hard-edged enough to be believable as a Nazi. What motivates him to work for the government in the first place. Patriotism? Racism? We have no idea because he never displays emotions of any kind. I was wondering the exact same thing. Did I miss his motivation for being a Nazi agent? Is he just naturally a bad person?
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Dec 10, 2015 23:04
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Nichael posted:I was wondering the exact same thing. Did I miss his motivation for being a Nazi agent? Is he just naturally a bad person? Getting back at his dad.
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Dec 10, 2015 23:19
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r0ck0 posted:Getting back at his dad. Yeah, that makes sense. Honestly, I probably didn't realize that because a lot of scenes with the main three got rather boring.
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Dec 10, 2015 23:56
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Nichael posted:Yeah, that makes sense. Honestly, I probably didn't realize that because a lot of scenes with the main three got rather boring. It's easy to forget because he mentions it once. I really just don't understand the writers motivations for making him a love interest for this show.
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Dec 11, 2015 03:08
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JetsGuy posted:It's easy to forget because he mentions it once. I really just don't understand the writers motivations for making him a love interest for this show. Agreed. Both love interests are sucky, but literal Nazi man is especially terrible. If I were the showrunner, I think I'd try to broaden the focus of the show. I'd keep Frank, Juliana, and Joe around with less screentime though.
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Dec 11, 2015 04:11
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Nichael posted:I liked the show, but I can't help but think a show with this setting starring Lem and Karen would be better. They seem so much more competent and generally less lovely than the main characters we have. This. You've very simply summed up how this good show could have been great.
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Dec 11, 2015 11:58
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EDIT: Apparently quote IS edit according to my app. Cool. See below for what I was trying to do. JetsGuy fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Dec 19, 2015 |
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Dec 11, 2015 20:23
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I still don't know what Joe's world view is, and not in a "what an intriguing mystery" kind of way.
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Dec 11, 2015 20:41
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zakharov posted:I still don't know what Joe's world view is, and not in a "what an intriguing mystery" kind of way.  The writers don't either. They're trying to create some sort of extra drama because apparently the actual drama of the real plotline wasn't enough without ~a love story~.It reminds me a lot of Agents of SHIELD with Ward. In both cases, they're unadulterated evil literally helping the Nazis as undercover agents. In both cases, they're not victims of circumstance, like they may claim, they're just evil scum who happen to start thinking with their other head over a girl and that gives them "conflict". I haven't watched S3 of AoS yet, but at least Skye loving learned seemed to learn her goddamned lesson, though it took one of the team getting disabled for her to learn that lesson. I guess my bigger problem is in Jules terrible decision making wrt to Joe than Joe himself. He just keeps outing himself more and more and she just keeps dismissing it it's 
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Dec 11, 2015 20:57
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Dropping Jules, Joe and Frank entirely for the next season would be the smartest move they could make.
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Dec 11, 2015 21:06
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BottledBodhisvata posted:Dropping Jules, Joe and Frank entirely for the next season would be the smartest move they could make. Frank's actions make some kind of sense. His girlfriend hung him out to dry, he's suffering severe PTSD, etc.
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Dec 11, 2015 21:12
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If Frank has PTSD from his sister being killed, Jules probably has PTSD from her sister being killed in front of her?
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Dec 11, 2015 21:41
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i like nice words
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JetsGuy posted:
I think you found the problem with the whole drat TV show; the writers are trying to make it something that the novel never intended it to be, a love story. I'm not interested in watching another love story. If they have a season 2, and I'm not convinced they will, and if the Juliana/Joe/Frank thing is the center of the action then screw this show and Amazon for making it suck. From reading this thread, it appears that the show has already burned through 90% of the storyline from the novel, making significant changes to most of it, so everything from here on is pure new territory for the plot line.
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Dec 11, 2015 21:59
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BottledBodhisvata posted:Dropping Jules, Joe and Frank entirely for the next season would be the smartest move they could make. The Man in the High Castle Season Two: Multiverse Adventures with Inspector Kido and Trade Minister Tagomi. I'm in.
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Dec 11, 2015 22:59
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JonathonSpectre posted:The Man in the High Castle Season Two: Multiverse Adventures with Inspector Kido and Trade Minister Tagomi. Oooooh poo poo! Didn't occur to me that Kido could come back from another universe! Edit: oh wait he didn't actually end up dead, did he Moose-Alini fucked around with this message at 00:35 on Dec 12, 2015 |
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Dec 12, 2015 00:32
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Moose-Alini posted:Oooooh poo poo! Didn't occur to me that Kido could come back from another universe! Yeah, he's alive because Frank's friend hosed up destroying the gun. Which is a sort of interesting end to that storyline: no matter what, someone who doesn't deserve to die is going to die for it, whether it be Frank or his friend, or Kido killing himself, so in a way I don't even feel as bad that his friend took the fall.
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Dec 12, 2015 00:41
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IXIX posted:Yeah, he's alive because Frank's friend hosed up destroying the gun. Which is a sort of interesting end to that storyline: no matter what, someone who doesn't deserve to die is going to die for it, whether it be Frank or his friend, or Kido killing himself, so in a way I don't even feel as bad that his friend took the fall. To be fair, someone who didn't deserve to die already died for it... the head of the guard who killed himself for allowing it to happen
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Dec 12, 2015 00:56
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This season would've been so much better if it had ended with Juliana killing Joe instead of saving him.
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Dec 12, 2015 01:08
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Lycus posted:This season would've been so much better if it had ended with Juliana killing Joe instead of saving him. The whole of her stupidity would have been forgiven if the season ended like that. But as I said the writers want a love interest which is just asinine and takes away from the story overall.
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Dec 12, 2015 01:23
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Up to 1x08. I like everything except scenes with Joe, Jules, and Frank. Unfortunately those three are most of the show. They need to lose the generic American characters and focus more on Smith, Tagomi, etc. The VA day episode was the highlight so far.
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Dec 13, 2015 02:15
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Unfortunately, you can't just drop the main three completely, or it'd be incredibly jarring. Keeping them with a diminished focus would be best. There's even room to keep their awful love triangle, but future episodes should work to make the audience convinced as to why any of the main three like each other. It's like what zakharov said: Joe's motivations (as well as his appeal to Juliana) are mostly a mystery because of generally poor writing of him, not because the writers consciously made him a challenging riddle for the audience to figure out.JonathonSpectre posted:The Man in the High Castle Season Two: Multiverse Adventures with Inspector Kido and Trade Minister Tagomi. Nichael fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Dec 13, 2015 |
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Dec 13, 2015 05:38
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If Joe’s going to be in season 2, I want it to be through yellow‐tinted scenes as a lonely exile in Mexico, with no direct involvement in the main plot.
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Dec 13, 2015 05:46
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1x10 Rudolf's scene with his family is fantastic. I hope the next season, if they get one, has more like this.Nichael posted:Unfortunately, you can't just drop the main three completely, or it'd be incredibly jarring. Keeping them with a diminished focus would be best. There's even room to keep their awful love triangle, but future episodes should work to make the audience convinced as to why any of the main three like each other. It's like what zakharov said: Joe's motivations (as well as his appeal to Juliana) are mostly a mystery because of generally poor writing of him, not because the writers consciously made him a challenging riddle for the audience to figure out. That's true. They could simply write the characters better. Edit: The hunting lodge/castle scene was dynamite. High-level intrigue is good. Popcornicus fucked around with this message at 06:35 on Dec 13, 2015 |
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Dec 13, 2015 06:09
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Brother Friendship posted:I rewatched a scene from the finale and I saw something that cleared up a question I saw earlier in the thread. No, 'it was Soviet propaganda for Joseph Stalin from 1954.' That's all he says. It may or may not be our timeline - he died in 1953, but Kruschchev didn't denounce him until 1956 and he remained basically a saint up until them - but then neither is Grasshopper from the books. Either way, the Soviet Union had newsreel in the 50s and also English-language propaganda; it's not claiming it was US newsreel praising the guy. feedmegin fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Dec 15, 2015 |
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Dec 15, 2015 00:30
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It's been renewed for season 2. http://deadline.com/2015/12/the-man-in-the-high-castle-renewed-season-2-amazon-1201669352/
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Dec 19, 2015 06:10
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I never had any doubt.
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Dec 19, 2015 07:47
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JetsGuy posted:
I've been going back through the series and I'm convinced this is where they're going with it. It's going to be a show about two different reactions to the horrors of the axis controlling the country. Speculative: We have Joe who while working for the Nazis will "CHOOSE LOVE" and now that Smith will be promoted he'll have a direct line to the high officials in the American Reich. On the other hand Frank wants to hide and just let things be. He had his crisis moment but it overcame him. He wants to hide in the neutral zone and do nothing. Jules even in early episodes gets really mad at Frank for not understanding her feels about the film. She even says its like she doesn't know him anymore. Jules will leave Frank for Joe as some sort of message about standing up against evil even when that means trusting unlikely allies. I'll watch season 2, but I'm already really annoyed that it's just so boilerplate and predictable. As for the Japanese-Nazis? I predict it will be a parallel. The Japanese will show strength through wanting peace (though it will take convincing the new emperor) and the Nazis Will be the antagonists who want total victory. The Japanese will win because CHOOSE LOVE is better than HATE. This show has so much potential and maybe the relationship poo poo is making me cynical. But it's hard not to believe it'll be some hamfisted thing in the end when there's no reason for this love triangle other than to do something like this.
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Dec 19, 2015 23:35
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Like I really enjoy the scenes with the Nazis living normal lives and such. Especially in regards to Rudolph. I want more of that and more things like the interactions between the two axis politically. This show would own so much as a political intrigue show. 
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Dec 19, 2015 23:40
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The Man in The High Castle: Everyone good dies and the Nazi gets away. The entire premise of this series feels so wasted. At the end of the first season almost nothing has changed, we have no idea about what the films are or how the timeline got changed and there's no political change between the two countries. The only thing that's happened is that we've got to see a few Jewish people get killed for being vaguely decent.
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Dec 20, 2015 00:31
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Yorkshire Tea posted:The Man in The High Castle: Everyone good dies and the Nazi gets away. The show does briefly mention things that happened to change the timeline. JFK was assassinated. In the book, this event leads to (backstory spoilers for the book)America not getting through the Depression. We remain isolationist through the next three presidents. We get hosed hard at Pearl Harbor this time because our significantly smaller fleet is pretty much all there (as opposed to being largely in the Pacific). In addition we don't have the ability to help Europe and the Nazis are able to easily handle the Allies. The Slavs are exterminated. Of course Hitler also is in the late stages of syphilis and as such is incapacitated. Small question I have though is when the characters talk about the H bomb. Are they meaning the Heisenberg Bomb (what we think of as the "A bomb" fission weapons? Or, since the Nazis have a fusion bomb (Hydrogen Bomb) are they talking about that? Also yes the characters in this show will make you cheer for the axis powers. Which is quite the feat.
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Dec 20, 2015 00:55
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I just finished episode six and I had to take a break because this show is so loving depressing.
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Dec 20, 2015 01:36
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JetsGuy posted:JFK was assassinated. You're posting from another timeline, aren't you?
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Dec 20, 2015 01:47
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