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Tahirovic posted:So I started a test game, to see if I could abuse the Russian culture and it's Danzig westernization as Kazan. After wasting all my diplo and doing nothing for years I am now at 51% Russian culture, no decision popped up. Your capital has to be Russian culture
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Dec 26, 2015 13:46
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Ok that did the trick, sadly someone at Paradox had the same idea. You can't form Russia as a Horde. The westernizing decision didn't pop up either, not even after I used the console to cheat myself into the criteria to reform the government. Shame, guess I can't do Kazan -> Russia shenigans like I did with Timurid -> Mughal in some early patch.
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Dec 26, 2015 14:34
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RabidWeasel posted:Yeah the only thing holding Hordes back is income so all gold mines should be bumped up to 10 production ASAP and lowered to minimum autonomy asap. Is it at 10 or 11 where gold mines can get depleted? I thought it was 10.
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Dec 26, 2015 14:47
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Sheep posted:Is it at 10 or 11 where gold mines can get depleted? I thought it was 10. It's 11.
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Dec 26, 2015 15:00
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Tahirovic posted:Ok that did the trick, sadly someone at Paradox had the same idea. You can't form Russia as a Horde. The westernizing decision didn't pop up either, not even after I used the console to cheat myself into the criteria to reform the government. Yeah the westernization decision only shows up for Eastern and Ottoman tech group nations. Hordes start in the Nomad group, and reforming them puts them in the Muslim one, so they can't ever get it.
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Dec 26, 2015 15:18
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Also the Timmy -> Mughal thing isn't really so much shenanigans as much as what you are supposed to do as that nation. That's like saying conquering Scotland as England is some kind of secret pro strat.
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Dec 26, 2015 15:59
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DDRjakes Minghals stream was something else though. I can't even remember why, but he really wanted to form The Mughals as Ming. I think it was something to do with retaining the Celestial Empire bonuses but getting rid of the faction system. It was a long time ago though, and probably not something you can actually do anymore.
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Dec 26, 2015 16:07
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MrBling posted:DDRjakes Minghals stream was something else though. I can't even remember why, but he really wanted to form The Mughals as Ming. I think it was something to do with retaining the Celestial Empire bonuses but getting rid of the faction system. Yeah my friend did that in Multiplayer. it actually worked and was pretty bullshit because what happened was you got rid of the 'Inward Perfection' maluses but kept the faction system. So what would happen was that he could get bureaucrats to build for nothing, buddhists to core for nothing (at no time because coring cost and time were correlated) and have eunches for -75% tech cost
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Dec 26, 2015 16:24
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PittTheElder posted:Well I have to say, you're doing way better than I am in my game. I've conquered about the same amount of land, but have way less manpower, and am probably much poorer, despite having Quantity and Defensive ideas filled, in place of your Influence and Diplomatic. I thought I was doing all right, but now all of my neighbors have joined a coalition against me, and the Ottomans just killed our alliance and rival'd me.  I've raised in some places, like 3 dev Siberian/Mongolian wastes that I don't feel like dealing with rebels in but for most of my early conquests I didn't. I think it's better just to let the rebels happen and kill them. If rebels went with a mostly cav army too and got shock bonuses it'd be a different story. The only impact of not having any mil ideas is I'm not completely wiping the enemy as often as I could. You'll still win most battles if you have an equal number to the Western/Eastern/Ottomans and if a good portion of your army is horse/artillery. Been winning battles against the Chinese/Indians/Hordes outnumbered 2:1 with the 15% morale bonus from the ideas and being able to keep up on mil tech where most of them haven't. Mister Adequate posted:I can't even get as far as you, I've been trying Kazan starts and every single time, whenever I try anything I get dogpiled, allies betray me to fight for the other side, and I inevitably get spitroasted by Uzbek and Golden horde. It's a tough start. I didn't do as well my first time. Everything just went right for me at the start of my current run. You want to be able to ally Uzbek and the Timurids which means the Uzbeks can't rival you and they can't rival each other. They usually do one or the other. Had to restart a lot. One thing you can do now with these types of countries where you need the right diplomatic setup at the start is once you've got the right rivals, save and load the backup save and just use that so that if you mess up you can just go back to the save with the right diplo setup instead of tediously restarting however many times it takes. What I did was day 1 ally the Timurids, day 2 the Uzbeks and then wait a bit and see if Nogai and Crimea ally. When they do, attack Nogai, checkmark Crimea and get the Timurids in by promising them land but don't need to give them any. Sometimes this makes them break the alliance. Sometimes they don't but it doesn't really matter. They usually just fall apart anyways. Just dodge Nogai's army while siegeing their land that you want. Don't let the Timurids siege any of the north half if you can help it. Wait for the Timurids to kill Nogai's army to save yourself the manpower. When Nogai's army is dead or before Golden Horde will probably attack Crimea but they won't take the whole thing. Get access from the Golden Horde, keep a single infantry in their land so they can't revoke it and after they take their share of Crimea vassalize them since they cost 104% at the start but won't anymore. I was lucky because before I even got to that point Muscovy attacked me for some reason which got the Uzbeks involved and the Timurids were already on my border with Muscovy from chasing down Nogai. After that everything has gone pretty smooth. If Muscovy doesn't attack you, try allying Poland/Lithuania and using them against Muscovy.  Tahirovic posted:I guess economic might actually be a good idea instead of Admin for a Kazan WC, so you get some passive -autonomy over time, probably better than the -core cost. I thought about that but getting more cost cost reductions as soon as you can is more important. For having cored ~2500 development and unlocking 14 admin ideas I'm still almost current on admin tech and my best admin ruler has been a 4; one was a 3 and the rest were 2-0. You want to get to administrative efficiency as soon as you can since it also makes it so you can take more land for your warscore. If I had gone economic first I wouldn't be close to being this caught up on admin. Maybe third instead of humanist if you don't mind dealing with more rebels. As for mercs, I was using them before but stopped sometime in the 1500's. But when you can hit a button every 10 years and get this much manpower and you make 2000 a month they're just a waste of ducats at that point.  E: Not having any forts except for my capital and a few in India has lead the enemy AI to do some strange things:  And why does destroying forts lower unrest? Something I just noticed. Trujillo fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Dec 26, 2015 |
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Dec 26, 2015 18:36
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One interesting thing about the hordes is you don't get AE with countries who you haven't met yet. Just munching my way around Scandinavia and no one cares. December 1544 is when it reveals which is plenty of time to mash Norway/Sweden/Lith a few times.
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Dec 26, 2015 21:49
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Gort posted:It's 11. It really sucks getting an event that increases production in a gold producing province that's already a 10. It's a small chance of depletion but it's always there.
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Dec 26, 2015 22:16
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So has anyone else found it impossible to take certain HRE provinces? In a current game with burgundy, let all me ae slide to 0. Took friesland which the owner had improved the hell out of. Instant 70 ae with entire hre. Not sure of a way around this?
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Dec 27, 2015 09:45
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Cast_No_Shadow posted:So has anyone else found it impossible to take certain HRE provinces? In a current game with burgundy, let all me ae slide to 0. Took friesland which the owner had improved the hell out of. Instant 70 ae with entire hre. Not sure of a way around this? Free cities (which Friesland either is or requests to be, can't remember off the top of my head) have a HUGE annexation cost, I think?
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Dec 27, 2015 09:50
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Wasn't a free city at the time, they also owned berg and another non-contiguous province. Friesland was over 30 developmemt though. Not sure on how to fix it really but maybe some kind of cap on ae from a single province? I was in around 1530 and taking that one province (or utrecht which was similar) basically means a 250k man coalition forming.
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Dec 27, 2015 09:56
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Take different land. The high development plus the HRE penalty means you will get an insane coalition of Germans basically guaranteed. The AE caps at 30 development already, it's just in a bad area. Alternatively, disband the HRE and then take the province.
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Dec 27, 2015 10:55
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Trying to get Jihad after taking a few months break is, in hindsight, a bad idea. I'm constantly restarting. It isn't an easy start and that is compounded by the fact that I'm really bad. Everyone that borders you is hostile towards you, except usually Shammar, and one time Hejaz wasn't. What would my first three idea groups be? Like was discussed before, Religious was considered, but Najd is in such a pitiful state at the beginning that I think other areas need improving first.
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Dec 27, 2015 11:02
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Yashichi posted:Take different land. The high development plus the HRE penalty means you will get an insane coalition of Germans basically guaranteed. The AE caps at 30 development already, it's just in a bad area. Alternatively, disband the HRE and then take the province. Yeah just wanted to form The Netherlands and have a fairly quiet game as Ie never done that before. Ahh well.
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Dec 27, 2015 11:04
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You usually shouldn't be getting coalitioned for taking one Low Countries province at a time, as long as you take only one at a time and bleed off that AE opinion malus between conquests. Forming the Netherlands is not something you can rush and it can be massively annoying if the emperor decides to make Utrecht free or whatever.
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Dec 27, 2015 14:18
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The only time I did Burgundy -> Netherlands, it was way easier to culture swap and become HRE & add myself than it was to slowly erode it from the outside. IIRC HRE AE is lower (but still above normal) if it's an internal war. Plus going Diplo/Influence helps you annex those stupid PUs a little faster.
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Dec 27, 2015 14:33
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skasion posted:You usually shouldn't be getting coalitioned for taking one Low Countries province at a time, as long as you take only one at a time and bleed off that AE opinion malus between conquests. Forming the Netherlands is not something you can rush and it can be massively annoying if the emperor decides to make Utrecht free or whatever. Shouldn't but does. Had to abandon one game after rushing and taking glere and utrecht at the same time so intentionally ensured I had 0 ae with anyone before I moved to take friesland. Gave something like 35 ae but doubled for all the hre to 70.
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Dec 27, 2015 14:34
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Larry Parrish posted:The only time I did Burgundy -> Netherlands, it was way easier to culture swap and become HRE & add myself than it was to slowly erode it from the outside. IIRC HRE AE is lower (but still above normal) if it's an internal war. Plus going Diplo/Influence helps you annex those stupid PUs a little faster. Swap to what? Dutch? Does that work or are you still to big these days? Assume you have to sell stuff to vassels, nevers?
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Dec 27, 2015 14:35
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I just tried a Holland -> Netherlands game and got completely screwed by Austria. They supported my independence with France, so in the peace deal I gave them a Burgundy province to keep them happy and took one of the required provinces off Burgundy myself. And then they immediately broke the alliance and demanded the unlawful territory from me.
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Dec 27, 2015 14:39
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YoSaff posted:I just tried a Holland -> Netherlands game and got completely screwed by Austria. They supported my independence with France, so in the peace deal I gave them a Burgundy province to keep them happy and took one of the required provinces off Burgundy myself. And then they immediately broke the alliance and demanded the unlawful territory from me. You have to keep a close eye on the rivals situation, I ended up re-starting my current Holland game until Austria and France were buddies so I could keep them both allied after becoming independent. Getting all the provinces you need to form Netherlands is way easier with Austria on your side, once you've got that land you should be in a position to become HRE yourself if you want to keep chewing away at your neighbors.
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Dec 27, 2015 14:45
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Cast_No_Shadow posted:Swap to what? Dutch? Does that work or are you still to big these days? Assume you have to sell stuff to vassels, nevers? I did it forever ago but yeah. Culture swapping to Dutch gets rid of the foreigner penalty for electors, and every little bit counts when Austria and Bohemia and whoever won the North German slam fest are competing with you.
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Dec 27, 2015 14:50
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What CB did you use to take the province? Did you take it from a secondary partner in a war?
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Dec 27, 2015 15:23
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Cast_No_Shadow posted:Yeah just wanted to form The Netherlands and have a fairly quiet game as Ie never done that before. Ahh well. Do you have a claim and did you declare war on Friesland directly/co-belligerize them?
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Dec 27, 2015 16:13
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cool and good posted:Do you have a claim and did you declare war on Friesland directly/co-belligerize them? I think you guys have hit the nail on the head they were a non-co-belligerent as I was allied to Austria so didnt want to lose that and give france an opening. Didnt realise it made a difference.
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Dec 27, 2015 16:23
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You shouldn't need a claim (although it doesn't hurt) but yeah secondary participants in a war give you literally double AE lol. I made the same mistake fairly recently as Hamburg when I took Bremen, and ended up getting totally dismantled by a coalition. I remember the devs stated that you should never be able to get coalitioned by taking just 1 province if you do it right, even if you're the wrong religion etc. Safe to assume it's a bug if that ever happens.
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Dec 27, 2015 16:38
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My last Sunset Invasion run ended in tragedy due to a series of Increasingly Bad Decisions, this one however is not looking too bad! Didn't get westernized until 1662 but managed to beat the English and take their colonies when they attacked me halfway through westernization. Also managed to later beat the French and their Spanish allies to take all French colonies in South America. However, It's already 1706 and I'm not in Europe yet. I Just managed to take Iceland from Scandinavia and Azores from Portugal so I have pretty good staging grounds for the invasion. Will probably go for England first and try to take their colonies plus London at the same time so I don't lose the CB, and then work my way south. I'm not too worried about England and Holland, but France will be tough.
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Dec 27, 2015 19:32
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All of Europe is coalitioned against me which is going to make this a slog if I can only take 100% war score every 15 years. I've been trying to manage my truces in a way so that I can keep chipping away but it's gotten to the point I can't do that anymore because any war I make will bring the whole coalition in. I don't know much about coalitions. If I beat them once will they not coalition me again for a certain amount of time or will they all just rejoin as soon as the truce timer is up?
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Dec 27, 2015 20:16
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Build up your army. The weakest coalition members should get scared and leave, then you can attack them.
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Dec 27, 2015 20:22
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Average Bear posted:Build up your army. The weakest coalition members should get scared and leave, then you can attack them. That worked. Went from 400 to 650 and the whole coalition left. Thanks!
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Dec 27, 2015 20:42
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Am I misunderstanding how assimilated natives are supposed to work? I colonized Kelang in Taiwan, which had 6000 natives, the tooltip suggesting that this would give +.30 local goods produced. I was also running the 'native trading policy,' which is supposed to give +50% to native assimilation. But when it became a city, my goods produced there is .41 - .4 from base production, and .01 from local natives, which hardly seems worth the trouble at all. What's the deal? edit: Actually, it's gone up now to .30 - guess it develops over time? But still, that doesn't seem to be any bonus for the trading policy... Strudel Man fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Dec 27, 2015 |
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Dec 27, 2015 20:42
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Trujillo posted:All of Europe is coalitioned against me which is going to make this a slog if I can only take 100% war score every 15 years. I've been trying to manage my truces in a way so that I can keep chipping away but it's gotten to the point I can't do that anymore because any war I make will bring the whole coalition in. I don't know much about coalitions. If I beat them once will they not coalition me again for a certain amount of time or will they all just rejoin as soon as the truce timer is up? Coalitions are wierd. They're generally likely to rejoin as soon as you beat them, but they also won't coalition you if they perceive you as much stronger than them (which is kinda bizarre honestly). Like in my last attempt, all of China despised me, but nobody was willing to form a coalition against me. Then I pissed off some Europeans, and a coalition was started by one of those same Chinese, and every one of my neighbours joined it. Then a few years later, just as suddenly, they all left, even though my AE was in the hundreds with most of them. The unpredictability of it all is annoying.
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Dec 27, 2015 21:00
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Strudel Man posted:Am I misunderstanding how assimilated natives are supposed to work? I colonized Kelang in Taiwan, which had 6000 natives, the tooltip suggesting that this would give +.30 local goods produced. I was also running the 'native trading policy,' which is supposed to give +50% to native assimilation. But when it became a city, my goods produced there is .41 - .4 from base production, and .01 from local natives, which hardly seems worth the trouble at all. What's the deal? According to the wiki, the bonus isn't being applied, currently. So you may as well do one of the other two policies
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Dec 27, 2015 21:15
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Are there any recent good posts on Horde play? Need a crash course if I'm going to have any chance in the mp game. Unfortunately can't actually play the game until the 2nd so I'm reading everything I can.
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Dec 27, 2015 21:29
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Strudel Man posted:Am I misunderstanding how assimilated natives are supposed to work? I colonized Kelang in Taiwan, which had 6000 natives, the tooltip suggesting that this would give +.30 local goods produced. I was also running the 'native trading policy,' which is supposed to give +50% to native assimilation. But when it became a city, my goods produced there is .41 - .4 from base production, and .01 from local natives, which hardly seems worth the trouble at all. What's the deal? There's a beta of the next patch available that's supposed to fix native assimilation if you want to risk it.
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Dec 27, 2015 22:12
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goodness posted:Are there any recent good posts on Horde play? Need a crash course if I'm going to have any chance in the mp game. Unfortunately can't actually play the game until the 2nd so I'm reading everything I can. fight defensively , on flat lands or deserts or grasslands or steppes. have the tribes happy so your entirely cavalry army is affordable. raze loving everything
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Dec 27, 2015 22:47
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VDay posted:There's a beta of the next patch available that's supposed to fix native assimilation if you want to risk it. I don't know why anyone would take anything but the peaceful coexistence policy. Oh boy, I want to do a bunch of extra micro so my colonial subject is slightly more powerful and thus slightly more likely to revolt or give me trouble. 
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Dec 27, 2015 22:50
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Fintilgin posted:I don't know why anyone would take anything but the peaceful coexistence policy. Oh boy, I want to do a bunch of extra micro so my colonial subject is slightly more powerful and thus slightly more likely to revolt or give me trouble.
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Dec 27, 2015 22:52
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