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Some people might have forgotten THIS Boss because a few fights later they got THAT Boss
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Dec 30, 2015 12:44
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DeafNote posted:Some people might have forgotten THIS Boss Yeah it's basically either this guy or the one a bit further on. Both of which use Zombie mechanics I think! Theoretically you could probably beat this guy in a single run if you were levelled appropriately and paid attention during the battle, but the other one has a gigantic dick move that isn't telegraphed earlier and can straight-up wipe you. I don't know how many people have ever done that boss in one go on the very first try.
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Dec 30, 2015 12:53
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Prison Warden posted:Man, I do not even remember this boss at all.
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Dec 30, 2015 12:56
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Geostomp posted:I never understood why games like this let you rename characters. It works fine fore silent blank slates or those whose reactions you pick, but when the character is clearly defined in personality and constantly in voiced cutscenes it just becomes awkward. It's not like you relate more to the character just because he or she has a name that is only acknowledged in menu screens. In FFX's case, probably a holdover because all the older Final Fantasies let you rename everyone.
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Dec 30, 2015 13:25
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They learned their lesson for 12 and 13, where you couldn't rename anyone.
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Dec 30, 2015 14:07
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VagueRant posted:Yeah, I'm with you. I don't remember this at all. I hated Evrae like you wouldn't believe, and Defender X was my biggest roadblock. This one, nothing. This makes me go  since I beat Defender X without provoke, just judicious amounts of Power & Armor Break.
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Dec 30, 2015 14:57
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Neddy Seagoon posted:In FFX's case, probably a holdover because all the older Final Fantasies let you rename everyone. Yeah, small reminder that this was their first PS2 game and in general the first major rpg with that much voice acting.
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Dec 30, 2015 17:01
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DeafNote posted:Some people might have forgotten THIS Boss I guess this is me. I don't remember this Seymour fight at all but I remember THAT boss very, very clearly. I didn't remember Defender X either. Maybe because I had gotten into the habit of "Hey, physical enemy! Let Auron use Power Break a bunch of times!" or whatever.
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Dec 30, 2015 17:09
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I had problems with this boss, but I did fine with THAT boss because I didn't stock up on Holy Water and had to kinda endure it. Which made the fight into a nailbiter but I never lost it.
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Dec 30, 2015 17:11
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Geostomp posted:I never understood why games like this let you rename characters. It works fine fore silent blank slates or those whose reactions you pick, but when the character is clearly defined in personality and constantly in voiced cutscenes it just becomes awkward. It's not like you relate more to the character just because he or she has a name that is only acknowledged in menu screens. Well, this was Final Fantasy's first voiced entry. They were experimenting to see if they could get away with it, which they could not. Hence why you can't rename chatacters in later FFs.
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Dec 30, 2015 17:30
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Nier pulls it off somehow, excluding that one muffled line from Emil, but then FFX's translators didn't have the Japanese crew going back and changing the script for consistency so they couldn't avoid situations like this one where people want to address Tidus directly. At least I'm assuming that's how Nier managed it. 
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Dec 30, 2015 17:33
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Yeah, again, FFX was one of the first voiced RPGs, and they had to feel out a lot of things. And especially with the lipflap issue, it seems like Square US wasn't really working with Square Japan on the issue.
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Dec 30, 2015 17:36
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Kinda think Mass Effect had the best compromise solution: your last name is fixed, so people can refer to you by last name. Still awkward because there's plenty of situations where someone you're talking to wouldn't do that.
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Dec 30, 2015 17:38
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GunnerJ posted:Kinda think Mass Effect had the best compromise solution: your last name is fixed, so people can refer to you by last name. Still awkward because there's plenty of situations where someone you're talking to wouldn't do that. Then lets just feel grateful that we didn't get Kihmari or a Guado as the main character.
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Dec 30, 2015 17:47
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I don't know, maybe it is a thing about differences in cultures, but I always felt that post FFX SquareEnix RPGs had too much name voicing. Especially Kingdom Hearts, but FFXIII also had a lot. You know, when I meet people I know, I usually say something like "hello", I do not shout out their names. Seymour's "son of Jeckt" line was not necessary as a name replacement. Maybe this line was to prepare audience that he really knows the fact, as he soon says the line about freeing his father from his fate.
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Dec 30, 2015 17:49
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Man, gently caress this bossfight. Also I know "evil handsome guy fucks with the party repeatedly" is a Final Fantasy tradition at this point but Seymour is just awful. His motivation is crazy, and not in that classic "genocidal maniac" way, more like the "obsessive creep who won't take the hint" way. He literally just committed genocide and it doesn't feel that menacing.
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Dec 30, 2015 18:09
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GunnerJ posted:Kinda think Mass Effect had the best compromise solution: your last name is fixed, so people can refer to you by last name. Still awkward because there's plenty of situations where someone you're talking to wouldn't do that. Same in Dragon Age- it's either your title or surname in 2. Insert grognardy rant on how voice acting ruined RPGs here  .
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Dec 30, 2015 18:15
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Really my problem with Seymour is that he's just kinda there and kinda fucks up the pacing of the game
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Dec 30, 2015 18:23
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GunnerJ posted:Kinda think Mass Effect had the best compromise solution: your last name is fixed, so people can refer to you by last name. Still awkward because there's plenty of situations where someone you're talking to wouldn't do that. Honestly, I can't actually think of any times in the Mass Effect series when it was a problem. Keeping Shepard from having any family meant it was fine for everyone to refer to them by their last name, even more so with a lot of military influences being present. But overall I think it's less that voiced RPGs have made a mess of things and more that writers have taken quite a while to adapt to it. Though frankly, as far as I'm concerned, jRPGs never remotely needed the ability to rename characters. That's always felt way, way more important for Western RPGs like the Elder Scrolls games.
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Dec 30, 2015 18:36
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Looks like I picked a hell of a time to get caught up. This coming fight's the one that threw me for a major stumble, too. So much time spent marching up and down Mount Gagazet to grind up my levels, and in the end I still had to head over to GameFAQs to figure out how to do it. 
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Dec 30, 2015 18:43
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OneDeadman posted:Really my problem with Seymour is that he's just kinda there and kinda fucks up the pacing of the game Yeah, he feels more like something added for the sake of having a recurring pretty boy villain, instead of something that serves the game's overall plot. I'm pretty sure in the FF fighting game from a few years back Jecht is FFX's villain and Seymour doesn't even appear.
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Dec 30, 2015 18:44
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RyuujinBlueZ posted:Honestly, I can't actually think of any times in the Mass Effect series when it was a problem. Keeping Shepard from having any family meant it was fine for everyone to refer to them by their last name, even more so with a lot of military influences being present. I meant in general. I mean, having to craft characters so that they won't know many people who would naturally refer to them by first name, that's a limit that this method imposes. It also makes it hard to write closer personal relationships. A step up from "Son of Jecht/Star Player of the Zanarkand Abes" though.
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Dec 30, 2015 18:48
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OneDeadman posted:Really my problem with Seymour is that he's just kinda there and kinda fucks up the pacing of the game Basically this. Had he just died and maybe come back the first time in Bevelle and gotten sent there, it would've been okay. This fight, arguably less than two or three hours since the last one depending on how fast you tore through the Calm Lands, feels a lot more like they really wanted to put a boss fight here but couldn't think of a good one, so they just said "gently caress it, Seymour's back. Oh, and he killed all the Ronso on the way."
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Dec 30, 2015 18:58
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I dont know posted:Yeah, he feels more like something added for the sake of having a recurring pretty boy villain, instead of something that serves the game's overall plot. I'm pretty sure in the FF fighting game from a few years back Jecht is FFX's villain and Seymour doesn't even appear. You're absolutely correct! Jecht is the FFX Force of Chaos representative in Dissidia, not Seymour. Speaking of recurring villains, I wonder who they could have used instead when they need a boss to come out of nowhere to stop the party. Instead of using someone that was just killed a while ago, maybe they could have used a boss that can't quite be defeated yet. Someone who maybe roams the lands randomly, threatening all in its path indiscriminately, with total annihilation looming all who meet it. Where could they possibly find such a boss?
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Dec 30, 2015 19:00
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AlphaKretin posted:Nier pulls it off somehow, excluding that one muffled line from Emil, but then FFX's translators didn't have the Japanese crew going back and changing the script for consistency so they couldn't avoid situations like this one where people want to address Tidus directly. At least I'm assuming that's how Nier managed it. Nier was released in 2010, 9 years after FFX
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Dec 30, 2015 19:01
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I don't ever remember having an issue with this boss. Yunalesca, on the other hand. 
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Dec 30, 2015 19:03
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I dont know posted:Yeah, he feels more like something added for the sake of having a recurring pretty boy villain, instead of something that serves the game's overall plot. I'm pretty sure in the FF fighting game from a few years back Jecht is FFX's villain and Seymour doesn't even appear. To be fair, that's because Tidus was chosen as the protagonist. Were it Yuna, Seymour would've been the more suitable choice.
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Dec 30, 2015 19:14
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I knew Seymour turned up again, but I can't remember a loving thing about him. I think I beat him first go, but gently caress if I know how. I do remember going 'oh gently caress sake, you again?'.
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Dec 30, 2015 19:17
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Artelier posted:You're absolutely correct! Jecht is the FFX Force of Chaos representative in Dissidia, not Seymour. Sin, while threatening, isn't really a villain. It's a mindless force of destruction. Beating it is the main goal, but you can't personally hate it anymore than you can a hurricane. Seymour is supposed to be the main villain of the story to make up for the fact that the goal doesn't really have a personality. The problem is that it doesn't really work that well since he's fairly unnecessary in the plot and is obviously just in the story to play the role of evil pretty boy that JRPG law requires. Jecht is also not a villain, despite being a terrible dad and being at least part of Sin, but has personal connection to Tidus that drives him, unlike Seymour. Geostomp fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Dec 30, 2015 |
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Dec 30, 2015 19:33
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I think the most damning thing about Seymour, at least to me, is that I always have to be reminded that his whole deal is that he wants to be Sin. I'm not entirely sure why I forget about it: maybe it's that his creeping on Yuna is what stands out more, maybe it's that the whole idea is kind of stupid and weird, or maybe it's just because it doesn't mean goddamn anything to the plot. It's never even implied that this bonkers plan is viable, and the consequences of death in Spira being fuzzy doesn't help matters. I mean, considering Seymour can turn dead people into armor and poo poo, I think what he's doing now is a lot more gruesome than if he were a whale of mass destruction.
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Dec 30, 2015 20:06
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Seymour's thing for Yuna is supposed to be because they're biracial and carry the blood of an unpopular race. But yeah, he does come across as a petty and minor villain given that the only other more major antagonists the game has are given far less screentime in comparison.
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Dec 30, 2015 20:34
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Artelier posted:You're absolutely correct! Jecht is the FFX Force of Chaos representative in Dissidia, not Seymour. If they ended Bevelle with Yojimbo instead of Seymour I think it would've made way more sense. A money-focused mega-aeon would fit in really well as the top boss of the heart of Yevon & it's not like a ton of thought went into Yojimbo's Calm Lands cave.
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Dec 30, 2015 20:36
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GunnerJ posted:I meant in general. I mean, having to craft characters so that they won't know many people who would naturally refer to them by first name, that's a limit that this method imposes. It also makes it hard to write closer personal relationships. A step up from "Son of Jecht/Star Player of the Zanarkand Abes" though. Maybe it's just because I've got a really common first name and have often gone years with everyone I know using my last name, but it seems weird to me to think that being on a first name basis with someone is a big deal for a close personal relationship. Sometimes it's just a matter of what you best know the person by. But yeah, definitely a step up from FFX.
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Dec 30, 2015 21:04
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It isn't necessarily a big deal. But it would be weird for my friends or family to call me by my last name.
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Dec 30, 2015 21:30
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It's fairly functional in a game where nearly everyone in your party is military(some under Shep's command) or intentionally trying to stay distant. In a JRPG where you are a rag tag group of greasy peasants stuck in the middle of a war not as much.
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Dec 31, 2015 03:42
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Lumberjack Bonanza posted:I think the most damning thing about Seymour, at least to me, is that I always have to be reminded that his whole deal is that he wants to be Sin. I'm not entirely sure why I forget about it: maybe it's that his creeping on Yuna is what stands out more, maybe it's that the whole idea is kind of stupid and weird, or maybe it's just because it doesn't mean goddamn anything to the plot. It's never even implied that this bonkers plan is viable, and the consequences of death in Spira being fuzzy doesn't help matters. If he became Sin it'd be very viable, and Seymour almost certainly knows how to become Sin.
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Dec 31, 2015 03:49
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TheKingofSprings posted:If he became Sin it'd be very viable, and Seymour almost certainly knows how to become Sin. Yeah, but he's just assuming as a given that you can even exert much control over yourself as Sin. I'm gonna assume Jecht isn't killing everyone to pass the time. If it's the power to kill indiscriminately that he wants, he just committed genocide effortlessly.
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Dec 31, 2015 04:01
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Well, he only could do that after he was killed and can now absorb pryeflies to supercharge himself. He is still going after the plan he had while he was alive.
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Dec 31, 2015 04:12
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TheKingofSprings posted:If he became Sin it'd be very viable, and Seymour almost certainly knows how to become Sin. You know, I kinda just realized a flaw in his plan. Assuming Seymour did get made into her Final Aeon, Yuna didn't necessarily have to summon him against Sin. Much in the same way Seymour never summoned his Final Aeon to fight Sin. Oh, sure, I don't think Yuna would just leave Sin unattended, but there's nothing to stop her from doing what she did in the main story and just making Seymour into a Fayth to get him out of the way with minimal casualties.
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Dec 31, 2015 04:30
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This part is particularly bad because Seymour really feels disconnected from everything. This isn't the same guy who deliberately schemed against the people and hosed with Tidus and Yuna's heads, he's just your average top mustache twirling douche. He comes up alone without any Yevon stormtroopers backing him up, drones on in his same voice about his angsty kill em all anime shite, and doesn't even remark about being killed twice now. It'd be nice if he broke his cliche monologue to show something resembling emotion. And who can take this guy seriously about mass slaughter when he's walking up the mountain wearing what is, for lack of a better phrase, the weirdest and most inconvenient robe ever made?
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Dec 31, 2015 04:42
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