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Gavok posted:Hogan wouldn't have liked curing Hulk's black friend either. 
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Dec 31, 2015 08:19
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WickedHate posted:Are you seriously objecting to the idea of throwing the Hulk at the WBC? I can't think of a better use of his time at all. It's just stupid. It's like having Captain America go out and kill Not Osama after 9/11. At best you're just burning an effigy without actually doing anything to either change people's minds about the subject or actually do any damage to the real group. And usually it's more like "This guy is stronger than you and he's going to threaten you into silence." which is hardly a good way to articulate why a group you dislike is bad.
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Dec 31, 2015 11:21
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Counter argument #1 and counter argument #2.
WickedHate fucked around with this message at 11:39 on Dec 31, 2015 |
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Dec 31, 2015 11:30
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mrfreeze posted:My favorite what the gently caress moment was when the homeless black kid who used to hang out with the Incredible Hulk after Rick Jones wandered off, was brought back in the late 80's out of nowhere as a now unofficialy gay man dying of AIDS. He then begs Bruce Banner to give him a blood transfusion to save his life. Bruce reluctantly agrees, only to trick his friend and give him someone else's blood instead. Because apparently dying in slow agony of AIDS is better than the horrible curse of being like him. The best part however was Marvel printing all the letters blowing them for their bravery for not outright saying HOW the character got AIDS, because that showed that everyone deserved sympathy no matter how they got the disease. I admit I may have some details wrong, I read this years ago. Not getting into the specifics of how he got AIDS was probably the right decision. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFNs2mOkKzc
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Dec 31, 2015 11:51
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WBC isn't the KKK or or Hitler. Hell, the KKK isn't what the KKK was in 1952
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Dec 31, 2015 11:53
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WickedHate posted:Are you seriously objecting to the idea of throwing the Hulk at the WBC? I can't think of a better use of his time at all. The WBC are bad, but they are hardly a threat deserving the Hulk. Unless you think its entertaining to watch the Hulk beat up an old man that is.
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Dec 31, 2015 14:16
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Alhazred posted:The WBC are bad, but they are hardly a threat deserving the Hulk. Unless you think its entertaining to watch the Hulk beat up an old man that is.  Content! Kaga, pictured above, was an actual mutant, scarred and deformed by radiation, who hated the X-Men for all being super models with awesome powers(you know, mostly). It was such a bizarre, out of nowhere end to that story.
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Dec 31, 2015 14:21
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A better response from Logan would've been "What?! I didn't use the claws!"
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Dec 31, 2015 18:17
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Gaz-L posted:A better response from Logan would've been "What?! I didn't use the claws!" Agreed. It would fit the character far better.
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Dec 31, 2015 18:35
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Logan is super old too so it is okay for one geriatric to beat up another. Now if it was Jubilee punching the old guy we would have a problem.
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Dec 31, 2015 18:51
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Madkal posted:Logan is super old too so it is okay for one geriatric to beat up another. Now if it was Jubilee punching the old guy we would have a problem. I'm sure the Japanese-American teenage girl has plenty of experience beating up creepy old men.
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Dec 31, 2015 19:18
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Chinese-American.
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Dec 31, 2015 19:24
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 I uh... yeah I got nothing, I'm a fuckin' idiot.
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Dec 31, 2015 19:55
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WickedHate posted:Are you seriously objecting to the idea of throwing the Hulk at the WBC? I can't think of a better use of his time at all.
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Dec 31, 2015 20:09
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There's apparently a Batman/TMNT crossover miniseries being published right now. 
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Dec 31, 2015 20:22
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NorgLyle posted:Yes? Superpowered characters shouldn't be bullies if they're meant to be heroic. This is frankly one of my big problems with a lot of the recent X-Men stuff (including Kieron Gillen's run which was otherwise fantastic especially his take on Sinister). I can't root for a guy who can crush a tank with one hand physically threatening a bigot unless the bigot can also shoot hate beams out of his eyes or something. Can I open a can of worms and ask the question, is Hulk supposed to be heroic. I admit it's been ages since I read or even cared about the Hulk but I always saw him more of primitive force of nature instead of an out and out hero.
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Dec 31, 2015 20:23
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Superman vs. the KKK wasn't significant because "strong guy beats up bad men", it was significant because the show went out of their way to reveal all the secret rituals and code words and poo poo the KKK use (Grand Dragon, etc.), which made them look like ridiculous cartoon characters (which they were and are), and turned them into a subject of puclic mockery instead of something to be feared. And nothing we've discussed in this thread can be compared to punching Hitler. Punching Hitler is always okay because Hitler always deserves to be punched. WickedHate posted:Are you seriously objecting to the idea of throwing the Hulk at the WBC? I can't think of a better use of his time at all. You know who wouldn't object? The WBC. They love it when people physically attack them, because they feel it legitimizes their personal narrative. And because like half of them are lawyers and they make their living by suing people. You've gone down this road in conversations before, WH. I seriously hope you grow out of this "eye for an eye" thing you seem to have going. It's not a healthy attitude, and it actually makes the world a worse place when expressed on a societal scale.
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Dec 31, 2015 20:26
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Madkal posted:Can I open a can of worms and ask the question, is Hulk supposed to be heroic. I admit it's been ages since I read or even cared about the Hulk but I always saw him more of primitive force of nature instead of an out and out hero. During the time he had Bruce Banner's intelligence during Peter David's run, he was absolutely heroic. Which i believe is the time period in question.
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Dec 31, 2015 20:47
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Madkal posted:Can I open a can of worms and ask the question, is Hulk supposed to be heroic. I admit it's been ages since I read or even cared about the Hulk but I always saw him more of primitive force of nature instead of an out and out hero. It just depends on the writer. He wasn't originally supposed to be heroic, if that's what you're asking, but he was also originally an evil genius Mr. Hyde type of guy who created a death ray or something like that. Which is also shit_that_actually_happened.txt.
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Dec 31, 2015 20:51
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yeah I'm sure what the author intended was to not have the hulk be heroic and for wbc to be sympathetic in this scene
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Dec 31, 2015 20:54
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If you want another weird one from Hulk, Peter David also did an issue with a stand-in for Jonathan Pollard. It was the Hulk and Pantheon breaking this Israeli spy out of prison, with a bunch of stupid moralizing about how it should be okay to be a spy for a good cause and all that garbage you get from Israel apologists.I'm usually a big fan of David's, but this issue was disgusting on the same level as the wikileaks issue in Secret Avengers.
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Dec 31, 2015 20:57
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-Troika- posted:There's apparently a Batman/TMNT crossover miniseries being published right now. The first issue was fun!
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Dec 31, 2015 21:00
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The KKK: group who killed people they didn't like. Hitler: guy who killed people he didn't like. Westboro Baptist Church: people with signs that say jerky things on them.
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Dec 31, 2015 21:05
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-Troika- posted:There's apparently a Batman/TMNT crossover miniseries being published right now. Aside from the "different universes" thing, that doesn't seem too out there. TMNT can get pretty weird at times, but there's also a good history of just fighting ninjas in shadows, which is something Batman has dealt with too. Actually come to think of it, I really dug how the Spider-Man/Batman crossover with Joker and Carnage just accepted that for at least this one issue, Gotham existed in the same country as Spider-Man's New York and had a mental health facility you would send homicidal lunatics to. (Why you would send Carnage to a place most famous for everyone breaking out of it is a different discussion).
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Dec 31, 2015 21:07
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Actually, suppressing fascist movements with violence is an awesome thing to do and the correct opinion to have.
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Dec 31, 2015 21:08
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rkajdi posted:okay to be a spy for a good cause and all that garbage S.H.I.E.L.D., Nick Fury, Black Widow, et al. Skwirl posted:Why you would send Carnage to a place most famous for everyone breaking out of it is a different discussion). The Raft, Ryker's island, whatever new thing Parker Industries built
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Dec 31, 2015 21:14
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Madkal posted:Can I open a can of worms and ask the question, is Hulk supposed to be heroic. I admit it's been ages since I read or even cared about the Hulk but I always saw him more of primitive force of nature instead of an out and out hero. He is a hero because you see, Bruce Banner uses his smarty smarts to make the Hulk never kill a single person as he levels an entire city.
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Dec 31, 2015 21:16
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NorgLyle posted:Yes? Superpowered characters shouldn't be bullies if they're meant to be heroic. This is frankly one of my big problems with a lot of the recent X-Men stuff (including Kieron Gillen's run which was otherwise fantastic especially his take on Sinister). I can't root for a guy who can crush a tank with one hand physically threatening a bigot unless the bigot can also shoot hate beams out of his eyes or something. That said, I do believe the Jason Aaron Thor panel worked because it had a Woody Allen "You know nothing of my work!" touch to it.
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Dec 31, 2015 21:23
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Ferrule posted:S.H.I.E.L.D., Nick Fury, Black Widow, et al. No, I mean a real life, sell your own country out, spy. The issue was funny because it's not like David even tried to walk back the whole espionage thing but actually tried to directly say it was cool because she (the Pollard stand-in was a cute girl, because of course it was) was helping out Isreal. I'll post a screencap when I get home if you want, but it was bizarre and creepy. Halloween Jack posted:Actually, suppressing fascist movements with violence is an awesome thing to do and the correct opinion to have. A correct and smart opinion. Superman was beating up unpower douchebags (like depression-era bankers or the Klan) who deserved it from day one, so I uncertain why it should be off-limits for a much more id-driven hero like the Hulk.
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Dec 31, 2015 21:26
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rkajdi posted:A correct and smart opinion. Superman was beating up unpower douchebags (like depression-era bankers or the Klan) who deserved it from day one, so I uncertain why it should be off-limits for a much more id-driven hero like the Hulk. Last I checked the WBC isn't a fascist movement.
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Dec 31, 2015 21:31
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Lady Naga posted:Last I checked the WBC isn't a fascist movement. Neither were depression-era bankers or the Klan. I don't get why having a hero with super-strength or eyelasers beat up or threaten some homophobe on-panel is a bad thing. We've had Cap go against Tea Partiers (or if you go the other way, Spider-man against Hippies) so I really don't see the difference. The side of right and wrong are pretty cut and dry here.
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Dec 31, 2015 21:36
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Ferrule posted:S.H.I.E.L.D., Nick Fury, Black Widow, et al. Besides rkajdi's point that this is different as a fictionalisation of an actual real-world spy, these are all characters/groups who just as often are used to say that spying isn't actually cool, even for a 'good' cause, as they are to be super cool superspies so I'm not sure what point you're making here.
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Dec 31, 2015 21:41
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Just kinda empty and self indulgent Doesn't do any harm but doesn't do any good either, there is no reason to care about your silly drawing of big muscleguy beating up someone you do no like
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Dec 31, 2015 21:42
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rkajdi posted:If you want another weird one from Hulk, Peter David also did an issue with a stand-in for Jonathan Pollard. It was the Hulk and Pantheon breaking this Israeli spy out of prison, with a bunch of stupid moralizing about how it should be okay to be a spy for a good cause and all that garbage you get from Israel apologists.I'm usually a big fan of David's, but this issue was disgusting on the same level as the wikileaks issue in Secret Avengers. That is funny as Johnny sold the secrets, he didn't do it for nationalistic reasons,
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Dec 31, 2015 21:48
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Acne Rain posted:Just kinda empty and self indulgent Again, so really the point of superheroes from day 1? Superman was an inversion of Hitler''s ubermensch propoganda written by a pair of Jewish immigrants. And he was beating up assholes ruining regular people's lives all throughout the Depression. Cap was beating up a weak little syphilitic on the cover of his first issue-- which was a few months before we even entered the war. There's always been an element of "this dude is going to gently caress up these losers from real life who are screwing up stuff for decent people" to super heroes.
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Dec 31, 2015 21:54
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CharlestheHammer posted:That is funny as Johnny sold the secrets, he didn't do it for nationalistic reasons, I agree, but the agitprop from Isreal has gone the other way since the whole thing started, so it's no surprise that's what is put out in the issue. The other crazy thing is that this was stuff from the early 90s (I think it might have been a Gray Frank issue) so Pollard had been rotting in a cell for awhile at that point. Maybe there was some big push to get him out during the change in Presidential administrations or something.
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Dec 31, 2015 21:58
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Halloween Jack posted:Actually, suppressing fascist movements with violence is an awesome thing to do and the correct opinion to have. It's not like there's any danger of WBC overthrowing the government.
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Dec 31, 2015 22:19
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rkajdi posted:I agree, but the agitprop from Isreal has gone the other way since the whole thing started, so it's no surprise that's what is put out in the issue. The other crazy thing is that this was stuff from the early 90s (I think it might have been a Gray Frank issue) so Pollard had been rotting in a cell for awhile at that point. Maybe there was some big push to get him out during the change in Presidential administrations or something. The American baby boom generation were literally conceived and born thanks to the end of WW2, and their formative years took place in the time that the culture was processing the raw feelings from the generation that fought the war. I don't think it's possible to overstate how much the boomers as a whole want to like Israel, because of what it represents in that context.
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Dec 31, 2015 22:45
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Oh we're talking about comics where superheroes stuck their noses in real world politics now? Well there's the Doom Patrol and Suicide Squad Special from the 80s... Reagan has Hawk running guns to Sandinistas in Nicaragua at the tail end of the Iran-Contra affair, and he gets totally caught. So Ronnie sends two teams to either rescue or kill him: He gets Amanda Waller to send in a Suicide Squad (it doesn't really feel appropriate to say "the" when back in the old days half the team at least died every mission) and he gets Checkmate to pressure Doom Patrol to go too. This is the DP in-between the original run and Grant Morrison taking over the book and making it great, where they were still trying to be DC's version of Clairmont's mutant books, and failing miserably, both behind the scenes and on the actual pages. The two teams meet and fight, especially since Mr. 104, an old enemy of Robotman and the Doom Patrol is part of this Squad. Their fighting pretty much completely ruins the entire mission meanwhile, and people start dying. Gorbachev orders in the Rocket Reds to handle things, but then a rogue KGB guy sends in Stalnoivolk to discredit the RRs and break Hawk out of prison. At the end of the day, every member of the SS except for Rick Flagg, and about half the Rocket Reds are dead, and an international incident is on everyone's hands. 
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Dec 31, 2015 22:53
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Chaos Hippy posted:
At the time a lot of people thought it wasn't America's business to punch Hitler. I'd love to research an article about the history of Captain America and politics. From death threats for punching Hitler to condemnation from Fox News for saving migrants from white supremacists.
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