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Roland Jones posted:Yes, really. It's why Kurapika needs to be in Emperor Time to use his healing chain; while it's still a conjured chain, his power in Enhancement is not enough to heal himself when he's a Conjurer; he needs his Enhancement boost (and, you know, all the other boosts) from Emperor Time to use the healing chain, and his pinky chain as well since it has Manipulation and it's also separated from him permanently post-use so it's emitted technically I think as well. That's not the only example, but I think it's one of the better ones. Kastro's double is another, since it's explicitly stated to be both Conjuration and Manipulation, two non-adjacent categories. Neither of which were his primary, as well, which resulted in compound problems and overwhelmed him. Interestingly, Pitou is also terrible at healing people, presumably for similar reasons (specialist being on the opposite side from enhancement). Just compare Kurapika's instant, practically condition-free Thumb Chain in Emperor Time to Pitou's slow and immobile Doctor Blythe.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:23
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To be fair Pitou was literally performing surgery, Kurapika's chain was some magic senzu bean bullshit.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:28
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Serious Frolicking posted:Yeah, but the conclusion he came to was to kill Pitou instead of himself. So, he obviously didn't blame himself that much! He did not decide to attack Pitou until Pitou confronted him about how he was a threat and needed to die for the Kings Sake. Upon which Gon attacked and threw away his future to kill Pitou. We can blame Pouf for that whole situation. Had Pouf not lied to Pitou that Komugi was safe, she would not have risked Komugi's safety to get rid of Gon while she knew Palm was watching. Likely Pitou would have confirmed Kite's death to him after seeing his corpse then left while he was crying. Gon likely would have stayed were he was for the rest of the arc mourning. Ironically Pouf's action here may have resulted in his death. If Pitou had come back she likely could have saved the King and Pouf using Dr Blythe. (Youpi though was probably dead no matter what as the king did not figure out that he was dying until he saw Youpi's corpse.)
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Jan 6, 2016 19:34
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It's just interesting that one of the most powerful nen users in the series chose an ability that she wasn't very talented at.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:34
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Clarste posted:It's just interesting that one of the most powerful nen users in the series chose an ability that she wasn't very talented at. She pointed out that was getting better at it. She speculated it would take a hour to fix Komugi's fatal injuries. (After which Komugi was perfectly fine.) When it only took half the time which Pitou was surprised about. Kurapika's healing no doubt would not work on a severed arm like Pitou's would and I doubt think it works on anyone but him.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:40
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Mikl posted:Thanks to this thread I started watching Hunter x Hunter 2011. (I've already read the manga.) I remember Gon being terrified of having to go up against Hisoka, not pumped.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:55
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Momomo posted:I remember Gon being terrified of having to go up against Hisoka, not pumped. He was trembling, which they said was a mixture of fear and excitement.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:59
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Regarding the Hanzo thing, I'm a little mixed about Hunter x Hunter's approach to supporting characters. It seems like there are two reasonable ways a long shounen story like this can work; either a relatively small group of protagonists and supporting characters are followed throughout the various story arcs (think DBZ), or every story arc introduces a brand new set of supporting characters, with only the core protagonists remaining prominent (if you do both of these things you end up with something unpleasant like Bleach). Hunter x Hunter obviously chooses the latter; virtually zero supporting characters have had a significant role in more than one arc, other than maybe Hisoka. One of the downsides to this is that it means supporting characters that fans are interested in do not receive much of a spotlight or progression. The Phantom Troupe post-Yorknew is one example of this. Another problem is that it can result in later arcs seeming unplanned, particularly when the supporting characters they introduce are big players; the obvious example of this is the Zodiacs, who I believe are never even mentioned before the election arc (which is kind of awkward when you consider that the Chimera Ant stuff was considered a serious enough threat to warrant Netero himself getting involved and even dying). All this being said, I think the positives of this method of story-telling outweigh the negatives. While some interesting characters might not receive the focus I'd like, all of the new characters each arc introduces are great, and it allows for a lot more variety in plot-lines and very little redundancy. Rather than focusing too much on a grand, series-spanning narrative, Hunter x Hunter instead opts for far more intricately plotted individual arcs. So as much as I would like to see more of characters like Hanzo or progress Kurapika's story arc, it's probably better that it's done this way. Clarste posted:It's just interesting that one of the most powerful nen users in the series chose an ability that she wasn't very talented at. Doesn't she have multiple abilities? She also has that one where the doll grabs all her limbs and makes her fight beyond her limits. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Jan 6, 2016 |
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Jan 6, 2016 20:11
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Ytlaya posted:Doesn't she have multiple abilities? She also has that one where the doll grabs all her limbs and makes her fight beyond her limits. Yeah, her main ability is puppeteering (both of corpses and herself), but she came up with a surgeon ability because she wanted to fix Kite's body. For more puppeteering. Ytlaya posted:the obvious example of this is the Zodiacs, who I believe are never even mentioned before the election arc (which is kind of awkward when you consider that the Chimera Ant stuff was considered a serious enough threat to warrant Netero himself getting involved and even dying). There's a single chapter in the Chimera Ant arc where Morel is complaining about Pariston interfering with their work there, although he's not mentioned by name. Basically, Netero died because Pariston was trying to make things hard on him. Clarste fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Jan 6, 2016 |
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Jan 6, 2016 20:30
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Clarste posted:There's a single chapter in the Chimera Ant arc where Morel is complaining about Pariston interfering with their work there, although he's not mentioned by name. Basically, Netero died because Pariston was trying to make things hard on him. Ah, I missed that. I guess that would make what I mentioned a non-issue, since nothing prior to the Chimera Ant arc really warranted the involvement of the top members of the Hunter Organization.
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Jan 6, 2016 21:16
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Ik what this series needs Highschool AU Although Mito-san is cool but I still wanted him to ask what happened to his real mother on the top of the tree. I must know before Gon goes off to become a regular school kid again. Alder fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Jan 7, 2016 |
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Jan 7, 2016 01:28
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Clarste posted:Yeah, her main ability is puppeteering (both of corpses and herself), but she came up with a surgeon ability because she wanted to fix Kite's body. For more puppeteering. I also love it's name Terpsichora Puppet Master's Serenity, dance past your limits. Also Knov's vision of what will happen if Pitou captures him. (When you look at it closely it's very gruesome.) 
MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Jan 7, 2016 |
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Jan 7, 2016 03:21
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Alder posted:Ik what this series needs Highschool AU His real mom is Biscuit. Ging has interesting tastes in women.
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Jan 7, 2016 03:28
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You'd think she would remember. Ging is Gon's mother, via the pregnancy stone from Greed Island.
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Jan 7, 2016 03:32
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It's Hisoka actually.
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Jan 7, 2016 03:55
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it involves time travel out of nowhere
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Jan 7, 2016 03:56
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Ytlaya posted:Regarding the Hanzo thing, I'm a little mixed about Hunter x Hunter's approach to supporting characters. It seems like there are two reasonable ways a long shounen story like this can work; either a relatively small group of protagonists and supporting characters are followed throughout the various story arcs (think DBZ), or every story arc introduces a brand new set of supporting characters, with only the core protagonists remaining prominent (if you do both of these things you end up with something unpleasant like Bleach). Hunter x Hunter obviously chooses the latter; virtually zero supporting characters have had a significant role in more than one arc, other than maybe Hisoka. One of the downsides to this is that it means supporting characters that fans are interested in do not receive much of a spotlight or progression. The Phantom Troupe post-Yorknew is one example of this. Another problem is that it can result in later arcs seeming unplanned, particularly when the supporting characters they introduce are big players; the obvious example of this is the Zodiacs, who I believe are never even mentioned before the election arc (which is kind of awkward when you consider that the Chimera Ant stuff was considered a serious enough threat to warrant Netero himself getting involved and even dying). We'll never see Ikalgo again but I'll be damned if he isn't the coolest side character ever
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Jan 7, 2016 04:15
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Eej posted:We'll never see Ikalgo again but I'll be damned if he isn't the coolest side character ever I liked koala too.
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Jan 7, 2016 04:19
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Yeah but Koala is bound to show up again if Kite shows up again, which seems exceedingly likely (ignoring release schedule)
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Jan 7, 2016 04:24
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RIP Alessi.
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Jan 7, 2016 04:28
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:He ripped through a nen user who was using nen to defend himself. Oh right. Poor Tocino. Though, Tocino used his dolls to defend himself, so his own body was unprotected when they fell; I wonder how, say, a decent Enhancer actually putting their Nen into their body would stand against Franklin.
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Jan 7, 2016 10:38
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Roland Jones posted:Oh right. Poor Tocino. Though, Tocino used his dolls to defend himself, so his own body was unprotected when they fell; I wonder how, say, a decent Enhancer actually putting their Nen into their body would stand against Franklin. I imagine only someone like Uvogin could withstand him to be honest and he's pretty much one of the best enhancers we see in the series. He's shooting alot of bullets and many nen users, even decent ones like Tsezguerra, have difficulty stopping more than a couple at a time from normal guns, let alone the enhanced nen bullets he's shooting at people. You'd have to be on at least Gon's level to even have a chance of taking even the initial barrage head on.
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Jan 7, 2016 11:17
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For most people, the best option would be to dodge and not face tank hundreds of nen bullets. But yeah, enhancement dudes are all a little special in the head so that would probably be their first choice.
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Jan 7, 2016 15:30
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Serious Frolicking posted:For most people, the best option would be to dodge and not face tank hundreds of nen bullets. But yeah, enhancement dudes are all a little special in the head so that would probably be their first choice. I'm definitely not saying that's the ideal, I'm just curious how a person with adequate Nen defenses, rather than Nen-infused balloons or literally nothing, would fare. Franklin's definitely a powerful Emitter, but I want to know how powerful. I mean, he can saturate an area with bullets and is clearly pretty strong, but being able to put out that many bullets and have them just rip apart even experienced Nen users would be crazy-powerful and put him well beyond almost everyone else we've seen, which doesn't seem right. Among other things, I think he was one of the people Shalnark listed as being relatively replaceable due to having more standard powers back in Yorknew, compared to Pakunoda and Kortopi, who bring unique skills to the table, when they were all talking about how to deal with Kurapika hunting them down. Overall, I'm thinking his ability, while definitely strong, leans a bit more towards quantity over quality, so while he puts out a lot of powerful shots they're not going to just punch through all but the strongest Enhancers. Tangentially, his ability is kind of interesting in how simple it is. It's just basic Emission, done well and done a lot. He's like the Enhancer of Emitters, just taking the basics to their utmost extreme and getting a lot out of it. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Jan 7, 2016 |
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Jan 7, 2016 16:54
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Roland Jones posted:Tangentially, his ability is kind of interesting in how simple it is. It's just basic Emission, done well and done a lot. He's like the Enhancer of Emitters, just taking the basics to their utmost extreme and getting a lot out of it. emission is like enhancement in that if you're a stronger nen user you'll beat the other person using simple methods so long as you can hit them, him cutting off his fingers massively improved this simple method. I think people are putting too much into him killing a bunch of normal people and poo poo nen users easily using a basic attack though and most of the nen users seen in the series wouldn't be hurt by it since its just a basic attack. leorio's/the boxer on greed island's kind of attack would probably be better for Gon than someone who has emission as their best nen since he can then punch them in the face with an enhanced fist
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Jan 7, 2016 21:23
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Does the original person Chrollo steals their nen from have to be alive? I know he didn't kill Neon but not sure if Owl is dead or not.
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Jan 8, 2016 02:52
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Alder posted:Does the original person Chrollo steals their nen from have to be alive? I know he didn't kill Neon but not sure if Owl is dead or not. Yeah, pretty sure they need to be alive. Gimme a second, I'll look for the page.
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Jan 8, 2016 02:53
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Found it. Chapter 123. Chapter title page. 
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Jan 8, 2016 02:57
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Wow that's a really inconvenient series of requirements. I'm surprised he can get any skills at all, let alone decent ones.
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Jan 8, 2016 03:12
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Yeah, but having the Ryodan around helps a lot I guess. They pretty much tortured the poo poo out of Owl to get information off of him, which probably made it a snap for Chrollo. And Neon had no idea of what nen was, having been born with her powers, and was sheltered to boot so getting information off of her was hella easy.
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Jan 8, 2016 03:16
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Having an ability that powerful you kinda gotta have some drawbacks. Even Specialists have limits (except for special snowflake edgelord kurapika)
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Jan 8, 2016 04:00
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Not sure what you mean, his abilities have plenty of limits. Emperor Time has a time limit and his Chain Jail is literally limited to 13 people, which is an insanely strict conditions.
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Jan 8, 2016 04:03
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I don't remember him ever stating Emperor Time had a time limit beyond "it's only active while my eyes are red" which, depending how pissed off he is that day, could be hours.
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Jan 8, 2016 04:08
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TriffTshngo posted:I don't remember him ever stating Emperor Time had a time limit beyond "it's only active while my eyes are red" which, depending how pissed off he is that day, could be hours. That isn't quite correct. Quoting HxH wiki because I can't be bothered to search for it myself, quote:Repeated usage of his Scarlet Eyes combined with Nen takes a heavy toll on his mind and body, causing him an incapacitating high fever that, after the death of Pakunoda, lasted several days and could not be relieved by Melody's flute So while there's no strict time limit, he can't stay in Emperor Time forever.
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Jan 8, 2016 04:59
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I wonder at what point when he was developing his Hatsu that he figured that it is totally a good idea to empower his ability by requiring people to touch his book before he can steal their Nen.
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Jan 8, 2016 05:06
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That was because of using nen? I thought it was due to guilt over killing Pakunoda. I guess you could interpret it as him being delirious and then seeing the people he killed instead of becoming delirious after killing people. As for all the limits on Chrollo's power, that is probably the minimum he needs to make it work at all. You can't just decide "I'm gonna have a nen power that is the best ever with no drawbacks". Nen abilities get more powerful the more restrictions there are on their use. Emperor time isn't strong despite the restrictions Kurapika set, but rather because of them. gimme the GOD DAMN candy fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Jan 8, 2016 |
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Jan 8, 2016 05:19
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Yeah, Kurapika's Chain Jail is effectively unbreakable due to it limited to a really, really narrow group of people, with the caveat that, should he use it on anyone else, the Judgment Chain he put on his own heart will kill him. He has put his life on the line for it, so it is immensely powerful, much like how Gon throwing away everything got him superpowered. Most people have lesser drawbacks than "if I use this wrong I die" for their abilities. The one other one we have is... Komugi, come to think of it. Emperor Time, meanwhile, yeah, it takes a heavy toll on him with prolonged use. He's getting better with it, seeing how he was able to go into it as needed when investigating the Zodiacs so his dowsing became more effective, but it still has limits. It is rather interesting, though; it's apparently a Kurta trait, and the Troupe mentioned them being really strong when they were killed, but, I wonder how much of Emperor Time is genetic/due to his lineage and how much of it is a sort of "genius" ability like Neon's that just developed due to subconscious desires and circumstance. The Kurtas are all dead, so we probably won't know if all of them had something like Emperor Time, or if it developed in Kurapika due to a mix of his innate ability, the importance he places on his people, and other factors; while I think it was meant to be the former I kind of like the idea of the latter. Either way, it wasn't a conscious thing Kurapika developed; his teacher noticed a shift in him when his eyes went read and had him do water divination again. As for Chrollo, yeah, like I mentioned before, his ability doesn't just let him use other people's tricks like Leol's did, it permanently steals them and makes it so the other person can't ever use them again either. That is ridiculous, to the point that I think the requirements he has for it are rather light, really. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Jan 8, 2016 |
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Jan 8, 2016 05:27
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I figure that emperor time would be really strong with a less stringent rule set, but certainly not broken to the point of being able to dominate peak nen users like the spiders. With enough time spent training, sure, but the whole point is that he took a shortcut. He threw away his future potential, just in a much less dramatic way than Gon did.
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Jan 8, 2016 05:31
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Emperor Time does take a toll on him as explained in one of the more recent chapters where he's looking over the Hunter exam candidates, but that thing where he broke down into a sweat and passed out afterwards was because of how sick he felt killing people and because he was forced to let Chrollo get away to save his friends. It's even implied a little later on when the Troupe is discussing Nen curses, that Pakunodas loyalty caused her nen to have some sort of effect on him after death but that one is a bit of a stretch.
Asuron fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Jan 8, 2016 |
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Jan 8, 2016 05:32
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Eej posted:I wonder at what point when he was developing his Hatsu that he figured that it is totally a good idea to empower his ability by requiring people to touch his book before he can steal their Nen. Probably when he realized that he wanted a really powerful ability. Kurapika talked about it with Gon and Killua that the more restrictions you place on an ability, the more powerful it becomes. It's like how Gon gave up his life and abilities in exchange for being fast forwarded to the point in his life where he would be powerful enough to stomp Pitou into the ground. I'd guess that outside of Enhancers, most Nen users take a while to really develop their power because it takes a lot of thought on how Nen works and trade offs. The only reason Killua and Kurapika were able to come up with fairly high level abilities to start with is because they combined smart introspection with really hosed experience and determination. My guess is most people start out like Pokkle with abilities that sound good but end up being way less effective than they expected.
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