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FrankZP posted:
For those interested: Amaterasu's costume here is the style of Yayoi era Japan (300BC to 300AD). Her legend has also been conflated with Priestess Himiko (a Japanese Empress recorded by Chinese historians), who was also alive during the Yayoi era. Many drawings and woodblock prints do not have Amaterasu in these clothes, which suggests the game developers did this intentionally as nod to Amaterasu's historical origins. I am really digging how much detail the developers went into to making this game. This is my first look into the Megami Tensei series, so thanks FrankZP for having such a enthralling LP.
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Jan 4, 2016 19:11
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GeneralYeti posted:Hey, c'mon now. The First is a reasonable guy, I'm sure. Why, I doubt he'd ever do something so gauche as to lie about a reward for following his orders - have you seen his cane? Very classy.
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Jan 4, 2016 22:56
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10dishOkiku posted:For those interested: Amaterasu's costume here is the style of Yayoi era Japan (300BC to 300AD). Her legend has also been conflated with Priestess Himiko (a Japanese Empress recorded by Chinese historians), who was also alive during the Yayoi era. Many drawings and woodblock prints do not have Amaterasu in these clothes, which suggests the game developers did this intentionally as nod to Amaterasu's historical origins. We can thank Kazuma Kaneko for being the lead artist of Nocturne, and his demon designs having a huge emphasis on source material. They try to reflect the way the original believers envisioned their local divinities, even if they are modernized in the process. It's more based on documentation than the vaguely-inspired-by-mythology beasts and gods in your average JRPG. Or SMT4's horrifying Centaur. There's a pretty cool blog that matches Kaneko's designs to the pictures that most likely inspired them. It has demon spoilers, obviously. While I'm linking good SMT reads, Kaneko also briefly commented on each of his own Nocturne designs in the Shin Megami Tensei Demon's Bible book. There's a translation online, in five parts and sorted by families: 1 2 3 4 5 Not all of them are that fascinating, so here are the more interesting ones I've found for the demons we've already seen. quote:Hua Po: It is said that if more than three people hang themselves on a tree, they’ll turn into a Hua Po. It’s like a three-way fusion in a way. She’s actually white, but she would have been too similar to Pixie, so I made her as red as a flower.
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Jan 5, 2016 02:58
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Heh, the nuts and bolts made me laugh. I never noticed that on the models, though that's probably because we only see them every so often. Hey FrankZP, any chance of getting an updated version of that merge chart anytime in the near future?
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Jan 5, 2016 04:01
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Man, I turn around for five minutes and you go and finish Dante Tag. I distinctly remember that while Matador was most surprising and Puzzle Boy most frustrating, Dante Tag was the most stressful sequence in this game for me. Seriously, I can grasp your frustration with Dante at the end of this portion of the Kalpa. Hopefully what comes to pass for continuing is worthwhile. Nothing in this game can be worse than Dante Tag, can it?
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Jan 5, 2016 04:23
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Dante tag was so incredibly frustrating for me, even playing it on an emulator with savestates, that it got to the point I said "gently caress it, I'm going to freeze this rear end in a top hat in place." Popped open my favorite memory editor, hunted down the variable that determines where Dante is, and locked him outside of the level so I was free to complete the kalpa in peace.
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Jan 5, 2016 06:30
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Miacis posted:really cool stuff Thanks for this link!
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Jan 5, 2016 20:32
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cdyoung posted:shoulda kept Valkyrie. I get that it's useful, but I don't feel that the convenience is worth taking up an ally slot for. Besides, if I ever change my mind, she's still just a trip to the Cathedral away. 10dishOkiku posted:For those interested: Amaterasu's costume here is the style of Yayoi era Japan (300BC to 300AD). Her legend has also been conflated with Priestess Himiko (a Japanese Empress recorded by Chinese historians), who was also alive during the Yayoi era. Many drawings and woodblock prints do not have Amaterasu in these clothes, which suggests the game developers did this intentionally as nod to Amaterasu's historical origins. Huh, fascinating, thank ye. There's only so much time I can devote to researching individual demons for my little bare-essentials blurbs, so I really appreciate that sort of deeper info! Miacis posted:[glorious information] Dang I had no idea these sites existed, this is rad, many thanks! GeneralYeti posted:Hey FrankZP, any chance of getting an updated version of that merge chart anytime in the near future? Ask and you shall receive, and your joy shall be complete! That's, uh, Jesus. I'm quoting Jesus. And now I'm paraphrasing Wheatley. What a leap. code:ModeWondershot posted:Man, I turn around for five minutes and you go and finish Dante Tag. I distinctly remember that while Matador was most surprising and Puzzle Boy most frustrating, Dante Tag was the most stressful sequence in this game for me. I don't remember worse, but I suppose those could be famous last words. At least it's technically optional content. Neurion posted:Dante tag was so incredibly frustrating for me, even playing it on an emulator with savestates, that it got to the point I said "gently caress it, I'm going to freeze this rear end in a top hat in place." Popped open my favorite memory editor, hunted down the variable that determines where Dante is, and locked him outside of the level so I was free to complete the kalpa in peace. Dang, I hear ya. I've been pretty good about not using save states on this run (other than for making sure I don't miss screenshots and can re-record videos if I gotta), but I allowed myself an exception here because, really F Dante Tag.
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Jan 6, 2016 04:53
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So. Yuko's in trouble. Again. There's something inside of me telling me it's not my problem anymore. I'm almost tempted to believe it. Either way it's not like I have a trail of breadcrumbs to follow. *: We go down the tunnel in the back, which gives me an opportunity to shatter all previously existing definitions of "being bad at this game".  Matador. Daisoujou. Hell Biker. The White Rider, the Red Rider, the Black Rider. Dante.  The Pale Rider is still out there. And there are two more after him. Better go back up and go bug Kamala some more. But first I have to find my way back out of the Third Kalpa.   : For a broad enough definition of "safe".*: On the first fight we run into, against Amaterasu and two Yatagarasu, Zed's Magatama curse acts up, and he punches Succubus in the face instead of using Chaos Blade. Whuh-oh. We end up having to run away, as Zed can't keep himself from hitting his allies long enough to overcome Amaterasu's Prayer healing. Fortunately, this happens a few steps from Dr. Dark. I don't know if he can cure Curse, but if we want to make it out of here alive, it sure would come in handy if he did.  Aaaaand he does. Whew! I wish I didn't have to spend that 5k, but it's not like we're short on cash. Still, since we got all our MP back, maybe I'll try to find that Chest I left behind again before we go and generally look around some more.   quote:Lv46 Fairy Oberon   *: Near the ladder that took us to Dante's mazes, there's this golden door that we can't open yet. I suppose it requires a Sun Key. The luck door that didn't let us pass the first time around sends us to the same spot it did before, so we can get that Chest without problems. It contains a Great Chakra! Returning to the hub room, we take the western branch this time.  : Well, I'll try. : Dude, forget it. Only someone strong like me can go in there. A puny wimp like you won't be able to get in. There are more doors like it inside... Even I can't get through some of them! If you wanna get in, you better build some muscle. Right now, you're just a little girlie-man.: Ha. No comment. Just watch.  : Your strength is worthy of praise! You may pass.*: I'm leery of normal doors in here because any of them may be one-way, but I find another toothy one quickly. It... doesn't let us pass, and teleports us back to the first room with the rude monkey dude. Maybe we can come back with Gaea equipped? I'm not sure if it takes into account Magatama bonuses. Before we can get back to this particular door though, Geis teaches us Life Refill, which regenerates a percentage of your HP every so often as you walk around. I replace Counter with it. Back when we didn't have a good single-target physical attack, using up the Focus buff on a counterstrike was basically a free turn, but now, that means it's not spent on Divine Shot. Besides, there are better alternatives to Counter somewhere down the line if I change my mind. Aaaand, nope, the +10 St from Gaea either doesn't count or isn't enough. Let's hit some regular doors instead.   quote:Lv25 Mitama Ara Mitama *: In the surrounding western rooms we find a Deathstone, a Magic Mirror, and a Bead. Another strength door lets us pass, only to an area we had been to before, but I notice a door I missed the first time and find a Chest behind, containing a Bead Chain. Barring the one stubborn door, that's all the west side has to offer. I'll check out the eastern side now, but I have a bad feeling about what we're likely to find there.   : You need a certain amount of strength, luck or magic to enter each door. The door up ahead is one of them. If you're going in, you better be prepared.: Ouch. : Maybe I got so much luck that the magic door will let me pass!: I cannot let one with such weak magic pass through!: Welp.*: Aight, time to check out the northern branch some more then. One of the luck doors there finds us wanting, and takes us to a dead-end in the eastern branch this time.   quote:Lv44 Yoma Jinn   quote:Lv52 Tyrant Loki   quote:Lv52 Yoma Efreet *: A few Chests surrender a Balm of Rising, and Attack Mirror and a Chakra Pot, before I realize that futzing around with one-way doors is something I have had just about my fill of for today. : Aight, I've had it, let's see Kamala and get out of here.*: Aaaaand she says there aren't any Fiends around right now. Ain't that the best news! We reach the Terminal without further incident, and warp to, let's say, Shibuya. We heard mention of the club not too long ago, and we haven't been since we met Chiaki there. Of course we heal and register our crew while we're here, but something unusual happens! Music: The Tokyo Millenium Heretic Mansion If you go to a Cathedral of Shadows on a New Kagutsuchi with Orthrus in your active party, the music that plays is the Jakyou Mansion theme from Shin Megami Tensei II. It's not useful in any way but it sure is neat!  More memories. It feels like it's been so very long since I've been here... but I have no way to know.   : Could it be...? Might someone have bumped off Forneus? : Oh he's fine. Look, the very picture of health. : Good day!: Liar...: Why I never!: I guess it doesn't count.: It was stupid to even ask you. Now, where's that Forneus...?: Alright, you know what? I broke his spine. That's technically true.: ...What!? ............ ............ Suuuuuure! A wimpy little nerd like you beating him up... Now where's that Forneus...?: Welp, we tried.  : Darkness has an effect on things. : That's what the guy at Rag's said. : They kept saying, "We'll summon a magnificent demon." Sounds... fishy.: Full K, huh? Hmm. I'll look into it.*: We certainly know of one place where strange ceremonies may be conducted.  Cutscene + Boss battle: A magnificent demonquote:Tyrant Mara : Let us never speak of this again. : Deal. : Mmm-hmm. : Speak of what? : ...oh well.*: Man I could not be more chuffed about how this went. Mara's a trick boss, and the trick is that he always uses Diarahan at the start of his turn, restoring his 2300 HP to maximum. There are basically two ways to kill him: one way is to be able to deliver 2300 damage in a single turn. The other is to drain his 3000 MP so he can't heal himself anymore. As you might guess, one way is significantly quicker than the other. Of course, Mara isn't just a meat shield and won't sit still while you're trying to set up a damage spike or What clinched it so quickly for us here was bouncing all four hits of a Taunt-powered Hades Blast off Onkot's Tetrakarn, causing over a thousand damage to Mara after his customary Diarahan had taken effect, therefore putting his remaining HP well within Divine Shot's kill range. It's quite important to choose a party that can survive Mara's offense (dude is level 85, with 30 Strength and 40 Magic); Zed had ingested Murakumo for the physical resistance, Onkot and Raja Naga naturally resist physical damage, and Titan has a boatload of HP. It's pleasant coincidence that these gave me all the tools I needed to play "why are you hitting yourself" with the dicklord.  Muspell is another Magic-inclined Magatama, though no-strings-attached resistance to ailments is a pretty good deal for anyone. The first skill it would teach us is Tentarafoo. Now I said I was done with the Labyrinth for today, but looking at my fusion options, I find myself with a good use for Orthrus, but only if I get one more level on him. And the Labyrinth is earning us a ton of experience for our time spent, so I'm gonna explore the northern branch just a bit further. As if to reward this wise decision, Onkot levels up, learns Stone Hunt (conversation skill for obtaining gems), and gives us a Vitality Incense.  > ...You received Ruby! : I already had one, but thanks anyway.*: We run into plenty of Kaiwan for some reason; they're still worth a chunk of experience and they keep calling for reinforcements, so it goes faster than I expected. And I gotta say, hearing their pitiful "HELP ME!" dying cries never gets old. A Chest gives us a Magic Incense. This is sure turning into a pleasant trip all of a sudden.  quote:Night Loa *: Orthrus levels up and learns Fire Boost. Now we're talking! There's still more of the Third Kalpa to explore, but I've had double enough by now. We warp to the terminal in Asakusa, go to the Cathedral, run around until New K, summon Sarutahiko for 17400 Macca, and... Orthrus + Sarutahiko =   : Haha! I am the Fiend White Rider! Behold my overflowing power!: It's free to overflow all you want, as long as you remember who turned you into an unwholesome additive to hand-tenderized horse meat.: ...please don't hurt me. *: Yeah, when I saw Orthrus about to learn Fire Boost, I remembered Prominence and decided there was no way I could do without. The level of the ingredients doesn't really matter when fusing Fiends, so we could have used Titan for the fusion, or we could have used other Jirae like Hua Po or even Kodama, but I figured it would be nice to pass down some useful skill Sarutahiko had. I wouldn't have said no to Watchful, but Focus and Counter are going to make good use of his 23 Strength and give him a purpose even if a given opponent is resistant to fire and expel. At any rate, that's enough stalling. It's time to go... online. : Aight, Hijiri my man, I need your IT skills. : Yup. I can't say I'm ready enough, but I'll never be, so I might as well take the plunge now. : Here we go. By the way, tell Isamu not to spend too much time in there.: I'm not his dad.    Oh boy. And to think I dared to believe I'd never be back here again. ...cripes I hope that Specter dirtbag forgot about me. Atmosphere: The Amala Network  More of this. Woo.  This isn't too terrifying by now, at least. *: It's like three crossroads before we reach a door marked Anomaly.   : Nope. This would have been way too simple otherwise.: He may be up... ahead. When you... find... him... get yourself... out... The terminal's... acting... up... It's not... like it... should be...: Tell me it's not the Nihilo tracking us down.: ............> You cannot hear Hijiri's voice anymore. : Well. Crap.*: A bit further we find stairs up to B1, not that this means much around here.  : Geez, we've been having a lot of visitors lately! A human kid came in and began living here not too long ago. Well, I don't care who comes, as long as they don't bother me. *: These guys are weak to Expel, so having Sarasvati's inherited Hamaon is a huge help. I could probably use God's Bow too but we can manage without for now, and White Rider doesn't regenerate MP.    quote:Lv15 Element Aquans quote:Lv20 Element Flaemis  : How's it hanging?: You seem friendly, but I'm not in the mood for chatting. "Believe no one." "The truth is within you!" You've heard it all before, right?: That does sound familiar.: So, keep it to yourself, would you?: Eh?: ...Um, I'm babbling, aren't I?: Only a little. : No one likes to be disturbed... And if you try to force your way through, you'll run into even more trouble!*: Well, there are two side passages here, maybe we can check out that central path later. Oh, one's a Hall of Records. The other...  : Heyo.: How many times you plan on comin' here? I don't want to talk to no one! I'll heal you, so just go home... Pest. : Maybe if you stopped performing a valuable service for free, there would be fewer-: Now is not the time for teaching, dear.: No matter how many times you visit me, I'll heal you. Anything to make you go away!*: And this leaves us with only one way to go.  Another maze area, with six visible hallways, and a door. Hmm. As we reach the first branch...   The door behind us just turned into a wall. : What the hell? You want me to leave, and then you cut off my way back? What kinda idiot are you?*: A bit further...   : Leave...*: And it blocks a path that led to a Cube. An obscured corridor teleports us to the entrance of this maze.  : Oh I've never heard that one before.: I don't need anyone else!*: It looks like wherever we go, this creature blocks off the path directly in front of us. I can work with this.  : You need to create your own future...*: Going directly north to the door ends up with three walls blocking the sides. Hmm. This does let us reach the Cube I saw earlier by retracing my steps, but it only contains a Life Stone. : I do what I like. No one tells me what to do... *: East, north, west, west, north, east, north. Whew.    We get the maze music again. Yay, Amala Network. It turns out to be more trial and error: east, north, west, north, north, east, north.  More maze zones? Those are the more typical black hallways though. A tough fight where Phantoms successively used Mazionga, Kamikaze and Last Resort nearly causes a wipe, but Zed manages to survive. Boy am I glad I've been increasing his Vitality lately.  : I don't think Descartes would approve of you quoting him to justify loving around with a perfect stranger!     quote:Mitama Nigi Mitama, Kusi Mitama, and Saki Mitama *: Alright, this part wasn't so bad; the western path leads to a couple Cubes (one trapped, one with a Mirror that I didn't think to note) and the eastern path leads to the next area. Right in front of us is a Hall of Records and two other hallways, but no Healing Room.  : Eh? You got a lot prettier than last time.: ...That's what a demon I just met over there said.: Whew, gave me a start there for a moment.: But, he was much madder... and fiercer...  : Aw hell. You don't learn, do you? Boss battle: Haunt Specter *: Good Lord that didn't have to take so long. I really should have been using Divine Shot every time I used Chaos Blade. Oh well. This incarnation of the Specter knows exactly three skills, apart from Gathering which it only uses at the start of the fight: Mana Drain, Megido, and Dekunda. Each Specter starts out with 29 MP, and Megido costs 30, so their strategy revolves around stealing your MP and using it to blast you. They have less than 1000 HP each, so I really wasted a lot of time back there. They nullify nearly all magic, so depending on your build and party make-up it might prove difficult to deal a lot of damage to them, in which case showing up to the fight with depleted MP gauges is a viable tactic. At that point you only have to deal with the Specter's physical attacks, and though it may drain your healing item reserves it's a fair sight better than being battered with several instances of Megido every round.   : What is it now? : ................................. ........................Hmm?..... ................................................ : Seriously?: ................Hmm... ......................... ............................: ...: ...............You...... ...You......  : ...yeah.: ......I see...... ................................... ......................................Well that's increasingly irritating. : .................................You...... : I'm Francois.: ......I see................ ...You're... Isamu's... ................................: Yeah.: ..............................*: Good Lord someone's trying to break the world record for ellipses. : .........................You...... .........Solitude................... : Ehhhh... It's alright, sometimes. In moderation.: .....................You...... ......Understand.... maybe... ......................Cool...... ..............................: So how about letting me pass, then? So we can be out of each other's hair?: ......Can......... you......... *: Let's serve Mister Social Skills here a dose of his own medicine. : ............: ..................................... ...Talk to... Master Isamu... ...We all... live on our own... ...You are............ me......> The shadow disappeared. Cutscene: Musubi*: I haven't seen a lot of love for Isamu so far, but today's decision is not about how many sweet make-outs we want to do with him. In fact, if he gets his way, it pretty much guarantees we will never have to deal with him again. If everyone could create and live in a world of their choosing, it sure would solve a lot of problems. Just imagine, having your own little universe in a bubble! No one to get in your way, no one to tell you what to do, or how to do it. Nothing that exists without your approval, without you having deliberately put it there. Everything for a reason, or for no reason whatsoever if it pleases you. You're in charge, regardless of how weak or strong you are, regardless of whether you want noise and clutter or silence and harmony. Everyone gets everything they could ever want. Or, well. Almost everything. You can enjoy anything in any way you choose, as long as you enjoy it alone. You can find any manner of happiness, as long as you're fine with not having anyone to share it with. How much does that matter? If at all? Are we even qualified to decide? Kagutsuchi is watching.
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Jan 7, 2016 05:59
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I don't think so, face-chested Isamu. Being an eternal shut-in sounds...awful. Back in the day, Mara took me forever to figure out (the fight, not the aesthetic). Today's RPGs don't really play up that fully-heal-every-turn gimmick anymore. Or any for that matter.
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Jan 7, 2016 06:26
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Isamu. Isamu. You. Are. Full. Of. It. If you were really, absolutely on your own in this world, then you would have been drained of Magatsuchi for all of eternity at the Mantra HQ. Or maybe you would have lucked out and been imprisoned among the Manikins. In the end, you would have been killed or worse without Francois' help. Point being, you yourself are proof that your own Reason is bullshit. Not to mention how it would destroy the lives of people who aren't like you and actually want to interact with other people in their lives. I don't agree with you in the slightest, you hypocrite with a god-complex. I have to admit that I'm impressed at how every single Reason leader so far is a massive goddamn hypocrite who doesn't belong within their own Reason.
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Jan 7, 2016 06:32
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Sorry, but no. It's a wonderful contradiction you want to make Isamu, but it's still a contradiction and it'll never work.
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Jan 7, 2016 06:39
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Isamu is the worst and I don't know why people go to his reason. Also, the reason for Mara's... eccentric appearance is that his name is a Japanese colloquialism for penis. So yeah, Japanese predilection for puns and dick jokes make for an irresistible combo.
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Jan 7, 2016 06:44
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No thank you. You (the Demi-Fiend) have gotten as far as you have in this Vortex world only by allying with and befriending demons. Without them, you'd have probably died back in the hospital. Why in the world would you choose now to forsake this lesson and decide that trapping yourself in a bubble is the best solution?
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Jan 7, 2016 06:48
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Isamu. What the gently caress. It is that which with other people, we can make our little world all the more palatable. I don't claim to be the friendliest person in the world (And god knows I'm a downright rear end in a top hat when push comes to shove), but without other people...there is nothing. A world of nothing. One of darkness that you are lost in. No, Isamu, I do not think so. Trapping yourself in a bubble...that's a fate worse than death.
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Jan 7, 2016 07:28
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You know what? In the past twenty-four hours, amongst other things, I had to play a game of cat-and mouse with a demon hunter, watch two manikins summon a shambling miscarriage of a summoning that creates a giant green penis monster in the best of circumstances, clean up their mess, and have to deal with a ghost trying to steal Suikoden II's record of most grievous misuse of punctuation marks. I don't even care that you're a blazing loving hypocrite, not having to deal with people (especially you) sounds pretty good to me!
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Jan 7, 2016 08:35
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Join Isamu if only because it spares the headache of a pretty nasty endgame boss. Does it ever state anywhere outright that Musubi is permanent solitude? I always thought it turned everyone into literal gods, meaning that Chiaki and Hikawa would be able to create their own little dysfunctional paradises as they saw fit without anyone interfering. Shitenshi fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Jan 7, 2016 |
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Jan 7, 2016 08:54
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Can't you just say I don't know to come back later? Seems smart to me.
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Jan 7, 2016 09:43
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ManlyGrunting posted:Isamu is the worst and I don't know why people go to his reason. Psst (Mara's female.) Shitenshi posted:Join Isamu if only because it spares the headache of a pretty nasty endgame boss. The Tenet for Musubi is each is of their own world. Singular and insular. Each person gets their own bubble of "reality" that they can call their own with no one else in it. cdyoung fucked around with this message at 10:02 on Jan 7, 2016 |
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Jan 7, 2016 10:00
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Our Reasons thus far are "nothing", "no weakness", and "nobody else". It's weird how they all start with the world as it was and then take stuff away.
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Jan 7, 2016 13:11
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I swear, there must be something about long-term Kagutsuchi exposure that turns people into raving morons. Isamu's reason is basically shoving everyone into their own Lotus-Eater Machine. Tempting at face value, but No.
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Jan 7, 2016 15:08
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Man, gently caress Isamu and his Reason. Ungrateful shithead.
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Jan 7, 2016 16:28
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No, Isamu. I'm holding out for a gently caress All Y'all option, personally.
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Jan 7, 2016 18:07
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Hell may be other people, but a life in solitude is meaningless. By the way, something you didn't mention. Like how the Mantra's headquarters was square and Nihilo's was circular, Musubi's is triangular. Well, maybe you could say it's diamonds, but it mostly looks like triangles.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:01
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cdyoung posted:The Tenet for Musubi is each is of their own world. Singular and insular. Each person gets their own bubble of "reality" that they can call their own with no one else in it.
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Jan 7, 2016 19:23
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Dr. Snark posted:If you were really, absolutely on your own in this world, then you would have been drained of Magatsuchi for all of eternity at the Mantra HQ. Or maybe you would have lucked out and been imprisoned among the Manikins. In the end, you would have been killed or worse without Francois' help. To be honest, if he was perfectly alone, there would be no one to cause all this trouble, either. 
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Jan 7, 2016 19:36
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Shitenshi posted:Yeah, but couldn't they then just create people and be done with it? It wouldn't be the same as normal because the temptation to create beings inferior to you would be impossible to resist, but it's not absolute loneliness. To his credit, Musubi does give more tools to equally satisfy individuals than what Chiaki offers.
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Jan 7, 2016 20:26
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Shitenshi posted:Yeah, but couldn't they then just create people and be done with it? It wouldn't be the same as normal because the temptation to create beings inferior to you would be impossible to resist, but it's not absolute loneliness. And that's one of the contradictions of Musubi. People can't be alone, People never want to be alone. People never should be alone. The Reason is basically an angsty emo teen trying to prove they're an independent adult and doesn't need no one because they're an adult. Also, if you use your powers in your world of Musubi to make someone to lord over, not only are you making a world of Yosuga, you'd be violating the basic law of the world of Musubi. "A world of the self" is a world for one alone, if you make a servant or a tool, you're not alone anymore and your world collapses.
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Jan 7, 2016 22:12
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Lol the reason of Mormon.
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Jan 7, 2016 22:15
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So Islapnuts absorbs the strength of other souls and tries to claim that he's making a pathway all his own where everybody does all they want on their own. Horseshit. As soon as construction begins or any sort of massive project occurs, we'll need help and we'll violate the rule of the world. Isamu, like Chiaki is just reacting to the hurt the world gave him but frankly is worse about it. Unlike Chiaki who at least is insane enough given what's she seen. Her going might makes right given the current circumstances (as it kinda does). But Isamu's philosophy only came about because he went in solitude through the Amala Network. Also, I always thought the Kaiwans were crying "Why Me?"
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Jan 7, 2016 23:53
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At first I thought those spirits saying they desired solitude would let you pass if you dismissed all your demons, but I guess it was just building up to Isamu's reason. So what's the lore that the name Musubi is based on? I tried googling it but got a ton of different mythological things with "musubi" somewhere in their name. And Sorry, but no
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Jan 8, 2016 00:06
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gently caress that poo poo, a world without other people would eventually become boring as hell, no matter how many god powers you have.
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Jan 8, 2016 00:13
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cdyoung posted:And that's one of the contradictions of Musubi. People can't be alone, People never want to be alone. People never should be alone. The Reason is basically an angsty emo teen trying to prove they're an independent adult and doesn't need no one because they're an adult. And Musubi is even more fragile than that. All it takes is for one person to get bored of being god and decide to appeal to something beyond themselves whether it's YHVH, Lucifer, or simply trying to transcend their lot, and you have someone creating another Vortex World.
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Jan 8, 2016 00:28
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GeneralYeti posted:Man, gently caress Isamu and his Reason. Ungrateful shithead.
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Jan 8, 2016 01:34
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Tactless Ogre posted:So Islapnuts absorbs the strength of other souls and tries to claim that he's making a pathway all his own where everybody does all they want on their own. Horseshit. As soon as construction begins or any sort of massive project occurs, we'll need help and we'll violate the rule of the world. Isamu, like Chiaki is just reacting to the hurt the world gave him but frankly is worse about it. Unlike Chiaki who at least is insane enough given what's she seen. Her going might makes right given the current circumstances (as it kinda does). But Isamu's philosophy only came about because he went in solitude through the Amala Network. Chiaki's world of Yosuga is just as childish as Isamu's world of Musubi. In the old world she was a rich kid from a well standing family, used to getting her own way. When the world ended and she became one of the few humans in a world full of powerful demons, she lost her status as "Upper Class" and was relegated to the lowest class in the Vortex world "Food." Her reason for making the world of Yosuga was one of selfish protection from ever being a "commoner" again, by both eliminating the lowest class through rights of power and by being the creator of the world which would make her the strongest being in it. But here lies the problem with her Reason. It's ultimately the reason of Paranoia. Since she would never be able to relax in a world governed by power where the weakest is expunged with impunity she will be fighting to keep her position of "Strongest" for all eternity.
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Jan 8, 2016 04:44
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Just thought I'd point out that the silhouettes in Isamu's vision are in no way human. They're freakish, gangly, almost insect-like creatures that might be able to pass for human with a hat and trenchcoat. That should give you some idea of just how disconnected he is from reality right now.
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Jan 8, 2016 09:02
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Hell no. Screw all these jerks! I know that's an ironic sentiment, given what I'm saying it to, but I still stand by it.
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Jan 8, 2016 10:05
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No, I don't think so. We are surrounded by idiots who think they're making paradise. gently caress 'em all. EDIT: Also, SMT 1 and SMT 2 protags have been a bit quiet recently... Gideon020 fucked around with this message at 11:09 on Jan 8, 2016 |
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Jan 8, 2016 10:17
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Aight, I doubt hordes of Isamu fans are gonna crawl out of the woodwork in the near future, so I'm feeling pretty comfortable calling it and locking it in. I can't say I'm surprised, but I gotta make sure on principle, and the input is always rad!  Digital Jello posted:Back in the day, Mara took me forever to figure out (the fight, not the aesthetic). Today's RPGs don't really play up that fully-heal-every-turn gimmick anymore. Or any for that matter. The fight is also remarkable in that despite how it's completely a gimmick boss, you have two viable brute force solutions (MP drain, and just coming back in the endgame so you can crush it with raw damage). And it's another proof of how considerate Nocturne is most of the time; even if you don't know what to expect and can't make a dent in the fucker, the fight takes place in an early-game area maybe 30 seconds from a save point. cdyoung posted:Also, if you use your powers in your world of Musubi to make someone to lord over, not only are you making a world of Yosuga, you'd be violating the basic law of the world of Musubi. "A world of the self" is a world for one alone, if you make a servant or a tool, you're not alone anymore and your world collapses. Or whatever creature you constructed would just immediately get split off into their personal bubble. I'm inclined to believe you could build yourself a computer and put a chatbot on it, or generally craft something that superficially gives the appearance of company and fellowship, but the moment you'd make a sentient entity with a hint of genuine autonomy they'd just get shipped off to their own parallel reality. I don't think the details in that regard are ever stated outright, but I suspect most obvious loopholes would covered under a sort of "Musubi rules apply to anything you create because why wouldn't they" clause. Montegoraon posted:By the way, something you didn't mention. Like how the Mantra's headquarters was square and Nihilo's was circular, Musubi's is triangular. Well, maybe you could say it's diamonds, but it mostly looks like triangles. Hmm, that is an excellent point. I'm tempted to believe the Amala Network is essentially unaffiliated (at least at the beginning), but from a game-design faction-identification point of view, your observation is quite accurate. Tactless Ogre posted:Also, I always thought the Kaiwans were crying "Why Me?" Ha, I think I like that better. Rawkking posted:So what's the lore that the name Musubi is based on? I tried googling it but got a ton of different mythological things with "musubi" somewhere in their name. I can't say I have a very precise idea. The word itself has several possible meanings, but the only somewhat relevant meanings I can discern are along the lines of "union", "connection", or even "knot", which doesn't seem to be quite what Isamu is going for. Comparing to other reasons we know about, "Yosuga" has connotations of "aid" and "something to rely on", and that would incline me towards the idea that the names are chosen for what their worlds would lack. However, "Shijima" outright means "silence" and "stillness". My theory about this discrepancy is that Chiaki and Isamu formed their Reasons after the Conception; their view of their experiences in the old world are very much informed by their experiences in the Vortex World and the losses they have suffered. On the other hand, Hikawa formed his Reason before the Conception occurred, it did not cause him to experience any loss that he didn't intend to experience, and his point of view has remained unchanged since. The former two look back to find the shape of the next world in their memories of the previous one, while the latter has been looking forward all along; all of them are following the path of creation but the two perspectives are in each other's negative space. I'm probably talking outta my rear end, but it would certainly explain why Yosuga and Musubi are identified by what they wouldn't contain, while Shijima is identified by exactly what it would be. Do note that I use the word "identify" here for a very specific purpose. I'm talking about the names only, about how the Reasons define themselves from their own perspective. On a deeper level, all Reasons look back on the world as it was and remove stuff that caused suffering and/or displeasure to their originator. Glazius posted:Our Reasons thus far are "nothing", "no weakness", and "nobody else". It's weird how they all start with the world as it was and then take stuff away. Right! Exactly. There could be pages and pages written about how Nocturne presents layers of metaphors and allegories relating to the Buddhist faith, but this is certainly one major aspect right there. According to Buddhism, the way to escape the cycle of reincarnation and reach the ideal state of Nirvana is not quite about removing sources of pain and displeasure, but rather about unburdening one's soul from all attachment to earthly life. Even being passionate and zealous about reaching enlightenment is a huge obstacle to overcome. Chiaki and Isamu are very, very tied to their life experiences in the old world and want different versions of "kinda the same but less sucky". Hikawa is on a different level, but he's still got a raging hard-on for peace and quiet, and global genocide is certainly not part of the Noble Eightfold Path. Yuko doesn't really have those problems, but does have an opposite dilemma. She clearly doesn't think the world as it was was necessarily bad, but she believes it had lost something important and irreplaceable. She went along with Hikawa's plan because she thought it'd give the world a shot in the arm of whatever it is it needed a shot of... but she doesn't actually have any idea what that is exactly. She's lucid enough to realize she doesn't have the answer, which explains why she turns to anyone who might give it to her. In that regard, Aradia's words provide a degree of insight. "Nobody has the one true answer. Find your own, and let it suffice." Of course she then proceeds to use our teacher's body as a meat puppet, so, grain of salt and everything. As for Hijiri... Well, who knows what's really going on under that hat? He's gathering information, but is it just force of habit relating to his profession, or is he actually going to do something with it? Suspense! FredMSloniker posted:Just thought I'd point out that the silhouettes in Isamu's vision are in no way human. They're freakish, gangly, almost insect-like creatures that might be able to pass for human with a hat and trenchcoat. That should give you some idea of just how disconnected he is from reality right now. Hmm, well spotted. He certainly recognizes the existence of others and neither has nor desires quarrel with anyone, so his Reason isn't something like "I'm the only one that exists", but the Vortex World has definitely sucked all sense of kinship out of him. Well, that, or he threw it away on his own. Gideon020 posted:EDIT: Also, SMT 1 and SMT 2 protags have been a bit quiet recently...  : The Chaos afterlife gets pretty busy every once in a while. And those pixies aren't entertaining themselves! Long story short, I'm not your monkey, I dance when I please. : Speak for yourself! I certainly wouldn't mind more exposure.: Considering how you ended up, I'm surprised you wouldn't prefer being forgotten.: ... : That's out of line!: ...yeah, sorry mang. : You've been hanging around those Dark types a little too much lately, dear, you're forgetting your manners. Why don't you go spend more time on the Light side for a bit?: The Four Heavenly Kings are still mad that I kicked their asses and kinda stopped them from preventing God from drowning everyone.: I hope you've learned a lesson from that, young man!: Mom! Not now! The people are watching!: Well they should! Maybe they'll learn something too!
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Jan 8, 2016 11:56
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FrankZP posted:mang. Woooooaaah there mom
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Jan 8, 2016 12:30
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