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Groogy posted:Could potentially add it in but a bit more difficult but I'll see after it. The "you are part of the council" flag on a title supports any title, landed, minor, religious or job. So you can potentially mark every duchy in the HRE as a voter title making them legible to vote on council matters. Can also make the Keeper of the Swans a important role on the council if you so wish. The system was made to be extremely flexible. Wow, that was a quick response, thanks  I think having a means like that to restrict or expand the electorate beyond just anyone with a title would allow for a lot of representation of government types in the game that can't really be done at the moment. In particular I was thinking that having only the ruling council vote for the next ruler would be a pretty good simulation of the early Byzantine Empire; succession by the often-conflicting acclamations of the Senate, the generals, and the commanders of the bodyguard units, and all that. But one could also use it to represent the more military/oligarchic republics like Florence, some of the taifa states, or certain countries in India - perhaps even some of the hordes. Either way I think it would be a useful feature for modding, even if it didn't make its way into the base game itself.
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Jan 10, 2016 09:50
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Eric the Mauve posted:There just needs to be a much bigger opinion penalty for forcing a religious conversion and anyone with Zealous should just flat refuse no matter what. I think Zealous does already make them refuse no matter what - you have to imprison them to force conversion. Outside of that though, yeah, converting people is generally pretty easy. They don't even have to like you that much.
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Jan 10, 2016 12:22
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Groogy posted:Why would you even want to? Why would you want to restore Rome? Or reform Nordic paganism into an organized religion? Because it's fun. Except restoring Rome, gently caress that noise (and Rome) Hell, you could make it so your "dynasty" consisted of the church/temple and you just controlled them until someone burned down your church or converted the province.
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Jan 10, 2016 17:53
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To add to the theocracy chat, I'm not bothered about them being playable, but I'd love it if they did more with the various religious orders, the Templars and pals are a bit one dimensional at the moment. And it would be very good to include monastic orders as well as military ones. It would add a lot to the politicking to have the Franciscans and Benedictines doing their thing. The orders were very rich and powerful and there could be all kinds of interesting interactions with feudal rulers/player characters. And it would be nice to have some actual monasteries to send people to when you force them to take the vows.
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Jan 10, 2016 18:17
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The Cheshire Cat posted:I think Zealous does already make them refuse no matter what - you have to imprison them to force conversion. It might vary by religions but I know that people will convert from a Christian heresy back to the main religion, or from Catholic to Orthodox or vice versa, even if they're Zealous, as long as they like you enough. Obviously if it's a False Religion thing rather than a Heretic or Religious Differences thing then conversion is impossible period.
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Jan 10, 2016 19:12
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I just noticed how Ireland was once again independent from Scotland and its considerable presence in Europe (the ruling dynasty of Ireland also holds Jerusalem). Then, a month later, Bavaria disappears and is now Scotland. YET THEY CAN'T TAKE THE REST OF ENGLAND. Also, Pomerania has been a theocracy for 135 years now.   one more thing  how does a kingdom even get that much gold?
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Jan 10, 2016 20:36
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A theocracy would require so many changes to the game to be fun, that it would make way more sense to have a entirely separate PopeSim as it's own game. I would play that so goddamn hard  paging groogy
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Jan 10, 2016 20:40
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Not gonna play if I can't make every single Pope worthy of a Cadaver Synod.
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Jan 10, 2016 20:47
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Would probably not add playable theocracies but monastic orders, yes that could work albeit a bit hard. But if we did a "theocracy expansion" it would be probably focused on empowering the theocracies and making it a pain in the rear end for you forcing you to interact with them and be on their terms. Essentially a "Pay-To-Lose" expansion because that's where it is missing. So I see it more as a "thing that would be nice, but not right now".
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Jan 10, 2016 23:03
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So I'm about a century into an Aargu / Habsburg play and the succession laws of the HRE are Agnatic Elective. People have been voting for me but I don't seem to be able to cast a vote, is this a bug or is there something I don't understand about Elective? Ofc I'm the Duke of Upper Burgandy.
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Jan 10, 2016 23:24
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Nobody Interesting posted:So I'm about a century into an Aargu / Habsburg play and the succession laws of the HRE are Agnatic Elective. People have been voting for me but I don't seem to be able to cast a vote, is this a bug or is there something I don't understand about Elective? Ofc I'm the Duke of Upper Burgandy. It's probably because the Kingdom of Burgandy is still a de jure part of Francia instead of the HRE.
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Jan 10, 2016 23:32
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Lord Cyrahzax posted:It's probably because the Kingdom of Burgandy is still a de jure part of Francia instead of the HRE. Balls. With the crown laws so tight right now I can't declare war on any other vassals. Will probably not be an Emperor today.
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Jan 10, 2016 23:37
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Groogy posted:Would probably not add playable theocracies but monastic orders, yes that could work albeit a bit hard. But if we did a "theocracy expansion" it would be probably focused on empowering the theocracies and making it a pain in the rear end for you forcing you to interact with them and be on their terms. Essentially a "Pay-To-Lose" expansion because that's where it is missing. So I see it more as a "thing that would be nice, but not right now". Why not do the opposite and add it in as free patch and force people to buy the DLC that disables it?  EDIT: And if you won't put in playable theocracies at least put in some kind of system that changes your player character when you inherit a theocracy to someone that wont cause a Game Over (if possible). If your only playable character after death would be priest dude then you're SoL. GenderSelectScreen fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Jan 10, 2016 |
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Jan 10, 2016 23:37
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Groogy posted:Would probably not add playable theocracies but monastic orders, yes that could work albeit a bit hard. But if we did a "theocracy expansion" it would be probably focused on empowering the theocracies and making it a pain in the rear end for you forcing you to interact with them and be on their terms. Essentially a "Pay-To-Lose" expansion because that's where it is missing. So I see it more as a "thing that would be nice, but not right now". Playable theocracies would be kind of boring I agree but I think this kind of thing could be interesting. If you consider how much influence the church had in real life during the CK2 time period, it's kind of weird that theocracy governments are some of the LEAST threatening vassals you can have. It's probably something that's not worth doing just on its own though - it would make more sense as just being an aspect of a larger expansion.
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Jan 11, 2016 00:07
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Like, just a theocracy DLC, that would be like SOA-lite for the rest of the religions (Dynamic holy orders for non-christian religions was one of the things I thought might be cool) and adding more depth to non-Norse pagans and events would probs be hella good content I'd pay top crown for.
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Jan 11, 2016 01:27
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The Cheshire Cat posted:it's kind of weird that theocracy governments are some of the LEAST threatening vassals you can have. If councillors work the way I hope, and diplomacy gets tweaked to be less easy to manipulate, then I think it's a pretty real possibility that religious vassals will have an incredibly disruptive effect on your kingdom if you aren't pious.
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Jan 11, 2016 01:38
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I'm going to agree and say that I feel like religious authorities in general aren't as powerful and as threatening as they should be as well. I mean, this is the time when they forced the emperor to walk to Rome wearing a hair shirt, but the HRE and the Pope don't have any real way to represent the adversarial relationship they had in real life.
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Jan 11, 2016 09:02
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NewMars posted:I'm going to agree and say that I feel like religious authorities in general aren't as powerful and as threatening as they should be as well. I mean, this is the time when they forced the emperor to walk to Rome wearing a hair shirt, but the HRE and the Pope don't have any real way to represent the adversarial relationship they had in real life. The whole topic of investiture is in the game, but it's an incredibly minor detail for what was otherwise a major crisis between the HRE and the Papacy at the time. Definitely agree that there needs to be more of an adversarial relationship modelled in the game. Also unless I start in 1066, I've never seen the HRE actually form in the Old Gods or Charlemagne start dates. Unrelated question: how do you guys feel about viceroyal kingdoms? In my Lithuanian Empire, I've got four kingdom titles currently (Lithuania, Rus, Ruthenia, and a titular Poland). My vassals in the de jure territory of Rus are getting a bit uppity about having their own king, so I'm thinking about granting the title to a viceroy. Is the only advantage of a viceroy that the title reverts to you after the guy's death? Do their kids get a claim on the title? Or is the general rule of thumb still "keep all kingdom titles for yourself, have only duke-level vassals"? It's around 1180 now and I'm starting to get worried about the hordes coming in the next 50ish years. I've never really played this far east this "late" in the game before... how completely awful is it to defend yourself against them? Right now I've got total realm levies of around 35000 troops (the third-largest in the world apparently after Byzantium and one of the powers in India) and I'm really hoping that's enough. Drone fucked around with this message at 09:35 on Jan 11, 2016 |
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Jan 11, 2016 09:30
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Groogy posted:Could potentially add it in but a bit more difficult but I'll see after it. The "you are part of the council" flag on a title supports any title, landed, minor, religious or job. So you can potentially mark every duchy in the HRE as a voter title making them legible to vote on council matters. Can also make the Keeper of the Swans a important role on the council if you so wish. The system was made to be extremely flexible. How will the interface handle 50 voters for one realm?
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Jan 11, 2016 11:45
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Drone posted:Unrelated question: how do you guys feel about viceroyal kingdoms? In my Lithuanian Empire, I've got four kingdom titles currently (Lithuania, Rus, Ruthenia, and a titular Poland). My vassals in the de jure territory of Rus are getting a bit uppity about having their own king, so I'm thinking about granting the title to a viceroy. Is the only advantage of a viceroy that the title reverts to you after the guy's death? Do their kids get a claim on the title? Or is the general rule of thumb still "keep all kingdom titles for yourself, have only duke-level vassals"? "keep all kingdom titles for yourself, have only duke-level vassals" is boring min/max bullshit, there is no need of doing this unless you want to make late game (huge-blob-period) internal politics more annoying and even less challenging. Kingdom level vassals are way more fun (they are usually stronger and more active) and less vassals to manage is a good thing: means a lot less clicking (and usually happier vassals). Just try to keep then in balance so you dont have a single vassal king that's too powerful (when one gets too strong, make another one just as strong). I usually avoid vicroyalties myself cause it lowers the vassal limit, I just give away the titles.
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Jan 11, 2016 12:24
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:How will the interface handle 50 voters for one realm? Without a problem actually, just a lot of scrolling. Disclaimer: Haven't been tested, is theoretically supported
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Jan 11, 2016 12:30
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So what's the current best mod that just adds a pile of cool/fun new events and flavour things without changing a bunch of mechanics? VIET still the best option?
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Jan 11, 2016 15:29
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CK2+ is still pretty fun, imo I played it back when Wiz was in charge and have avoided it for a long time because goons said it was bad after he left but it's still neat. Really fleshes out the faction system, makes them much less boring and binary
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Jan 11, 2016 15:37
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Groogy posted:Without a problem actually, just a lot of scrolling. Make every character within your realm a council voter and an elector in your elective monarchy. Every 4 years you must abdicate the throne to the next most popular candidate. Viva democracy! 
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Jan 11, 2016 16:23
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Drone posted:The whole topic of investiture is in the game, but it's an incredibly minor detail for what was otherwise a major crisis between the HRE and the Papacy at the time. Definitely agree that there needs to be more of an adversarial relationship modelled in the game. I'd really like to see some kind of unique succession mechanic for the HRE, to represent how closely tied the emperor was to the Pope. In the Charlemagne start you need 100 relation with the pope to create the HRE, but after that you can basically tell him to gently caress off forever and it won't affect you any more than any other ruler doing the same. I have seen the AI form the HRE in the Charlemagne start, but it's rare. It depends on where his wife flees after the whole "Lombard Queen" event - if she goes to Lombardy he'll get a free strong claim on the kingdom and will roll it pretty quickly, and then it just comes down to whether or not he gets friendly with the Pope before he dies. If his wife goes somewhere else, though, he'll get a claim on that kingdom instead and never bother pursuing the kingdom of Lombardy, and thus never meet the requirements to form the HRE. The HRE will almost certainly not form on its own in the old gods start, because the AI is specifically prohibited from forming it as a Karling, and by the time the Karlings end up being overthrown (if it happens at all), Europe is usually too much of a clusterfuck for any AI ruler to actually gain control of all the required titles to take the decision.
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Jan 11, 2016 18:53
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Groogy, has there ever been any thoughts about implementing cadet houses in CK2? I'm thinking specifically of the Karlings and ways to make them a bit less pervasive in pre-1066 starts, and that would seem like a pretty neat mechanic. Especially as I like exporting my dynasty abroad, it would be neat to kinda fold off sections of the family into their own thing. Like my current Lithuania game where I gave Finland to a relative a few hundred years ago. Sure they're still my dynasty, but they bear pretty much no resemblence to the main one back in Vilnius.
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Jan 11, 2016 18:56
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Theocracy chat: Is there any way to make the Coptic Pope the Duke of Alexandria? I've tried granting him the title directly, but it says that Theocracies can have only one title of each level or some garbage. I'm assuming that the titular Coptic Pope title is preventing him from getting the de jure Duke title. Can I mod it so he can have both titles or will I have to use console fuckery?
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Jan 11, 2016 18:57
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McGavin posted:Theocracy chat: Is there any way to make the Coptic Pope the Duke of Alexandria? I've tried granting him the title directly, but it says that Theocracies can have only one title of each level or some garbage. I'm assuming that the titular Coptic Pope title is preventing him from getting the de jure Duke title. Can I mod it so he can have both titles or will I have to use console fuckery? You gotta gently caress that console.
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Jan 11, 2016 19:03
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Powergaming sperglords making everything Theocracies gotta ruin it for the rest of us who just want to play in the sandbox.  I just wanted to make a Duke-Pope. The regular Pope can be a Duke. This is Coptic discrimination! 
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Jan 11, 2016 19:21
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Drone posted:Groogy, has there ever been any thoughts about implementing cadet houses in CK2? Yes
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Jan 11, 2016 19:41
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Ck2+ has cadet branches actually tho I've yet to see one form
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Jan 11, 2016 19:47
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McGavin posted:Theocracy chat: Is there any way to make the Coptic Pope the Duke of Alexandria? I've tried granting him the title directly, but it says that Theocracies can have only one title of each level or some garbage. I'm assuming that the titular Coptic Pope title is preventing him from getting the de jure Duke title. Can I mod it so he can have both titles or will I have to use console fuckery?
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Jan 11, 2016 20:18
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If I hand a kingdom off to a regent, what are the odds that he'll destroy the prosperous merchant republic that's within that kingdom? I'm afraid I'll lose my crazy wide trade zones (and with it my high tax base) because the AI won't like the wrong gov't type malus and might revoke it.
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Jan 11, 2016 21:20
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moot the hopple posted:If I hand a kingdom off to a regent, what are the odds that he'll destroy the prosperous merchant republic that's within that kingdom? I'm afraid I'll lose my crazy wide trade zones (and with it my high tax base) because the AI won't like the wrong gov't type malus and might revoke it. I'm not sure about the probability of the AI revoking the duchy, but I wouldn't risk it. Besides, most of the taxes the doge pays will go to the king, who will only pass a small fraction on to you, if at all (requires feudal taxes). Also, how would you get the kingdom title back later?
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Jan 11, 2016 22:28
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Who is the goon that made the Enhanced Black Death mod? I've been trying to play with it lately and have had an issue. I posted about it on Steam as well: Any luck fixing that "Rome has been struck by the plague" event firing every few seconds problem? I'm playing as a ruler-created Nomad Mazdaki Persian with all the DLC having started at the Charlemagne start. Playing with the mods Your Personal Castle, Ruler Designer Unlocked!, Status of Women - A Law Mod, and Shattered World. Each time the event fires it seems to have the portrait of a different character, almost none of which are actually in Rome. I haven't been able to identify what they have in common with each other.
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Jan 12, 2016 18:12
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That would be me. Unfortunately, I have several other projects under my belt right now, so work on EBD has been put on hiatus. Not to mention there were a few other bugs in there that killed my enthuaism for modding CK2. I might get back to it in the future, but for now you're on your own. Sorry about that.
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Jan 12, 2016 18:22
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Mr.Morgenstern posted:That would be me. Aww, what happened to your amazing self-drawn Fall From Heaven avatar?  I really like that Paradox puts more work into the internal workings of your realm. Way of Life was the best DLC since Old Gods, I hope that Conclave is as good. I'm especially intrigued by the changes to the education system, with wholly new traits even. Again, Way of Life is amazing, and this is basically a focus system for children. I can hardly wait to see how it works. Regarding that Humility focus example picture, where kids can pick up affectionate and timid, I suspect that these are childhood only traits that get exchanged for different adult traits once they grow up. For example, a child with the timid trait might become shy or craven as a grown up, while an affectionate child might become kind or trusting.
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Jan 12, 2016 19:32
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Mr.Morgenstern posted:That would be me. bummah
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Jan 12, 2016 19:32
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So do event hordes suck now or something? I started a game as Hungary in the mongol start bookmark and I kept waiting for the mongols to come knocking but they never did. I noticed there is a Mongol Empire (As well as a Mongolia, confusingly enough) With 50k troops just sitting around but they're not doing anything. A little bit later the Sunset invasion starts to get going and I'm excited because if Eastern Europe isn't going to fall I'd least like to see Western Europe go down. Instead, The Aztecs capture a few English duchies and then sit around with 150k troops to spare. It seems like they had a war with Brittany that they somehow ended without taking land as well. Then after a little while of nothing, the Emperor died and his kid isn't exactly banging the war drum either.
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Jan 12, 2016 19:52
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Ok thread, I got the itch. Tell me the best bods. For an example of tastes, I like anything that adds more events. I added the GODS one and liked that one pretty well.
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Jan 12, 2016 19:58
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