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I don't think any combat nen is innately inferior to another. All that matters is natural talent and how far they develop it. A guy with a sword isn't more dangerous than an unarmed guy because what matters is how far their nen has developed. A real sword is more dangerous than a real fist, but once you bring magic powers into it that all goes out the window. An obvious example would be Kite, who had a profoundly stupid nen ability but was still strong as heck. Though of course, there is always a chance of poor compatibility. For example, Knuckle would have trouble with someone who concealed themselves and attacked from long range even if their strength was otherwise equal.
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Jan 14, 2016 21:24
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When the manga was discussing the development of Kurapika's nen, his nen master tried to convince him to materialize something other than a simple chain - his reasoning being that even if you create a really strong nen chain, its still not going to be THAT much better than just buying a really strong real chain to make the effort it takes worth it. You're better off materializing something unique. So, there's certain common sense "rules" in-universe, ideas that people have for what the most effective ways to develop your nen are that probably mostly apply. However, Kurapika himself obviously transcends this common sense, through his eye jutsu bloodline limit (Emperor Time), innate talent, and the restrictive rules on his nen.
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Jan 14, 2016 21:55
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Ytlaya posted:Then it seems like a person deeply committed to a decent weapon would gently caress up someone deeply committed to fighting with their fists. It's the "all parts equal" part that's important, here; obviously a weaponless nen user who is far more skilled could punk a less skilled person using a weapon. Bonolenov's ability requires him to dance around and play music, and its power depends on how good re resulting music is as well as its length and complexity. If he's pulling off the Jupiter-summoning dances in combat either he's amazing or you really, really suck at fighting/are letting him dance because you don't think he's a threat or something. Feitain's power, meanwhile, is pretty ridiculous, yeah. I think there has to be some conditions to it beyond getting hurt, but, still.
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Jan 14, 2016 22:08
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Nen abilities that force the opponent into zetsu require really hard conditions to happen which makes sense
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Jan 14, 2016 22:12
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I'd imagine most abilities which force conditions on your opponent but not yourself are incredibly strict. Unlike JJBA, most of the conditional stuff also puts the user under limitations, like how Knuckle's ability is actively detrimental if he can't win a damage race or escape. On a different subject, it occurs to me now that Killua's nen is actually a whole lot like Morau's. The main limitation for its use is his own exceptional physique. For Killua, his tolerance for electricity, for Morau, his enormous lung capacity. In other words, they bypassed the need for restrictions to improve nen by using restrictions that were largely meaningless to them.
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Jan 14, 2016 22:32
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Roland Jones posted:Bonolenov's ability requires him to dance around and play music, and its power depends on how good re resulting music is as well as its length and complexity. If he's pulling off the Jupiter-summoning dances in combat either he's amazing or you really, really suck at fighting/are letting him dance because you don't think he's a threat or something. Bonelenov's power is also always on it seems. So he wears gloves and bandages to cover up his holes to avoid making sounds that conjurers something by mistake in his regular movement. Feitan's power is limited in a few ways. One Feitan has to be utterly pissed off and the strength of his attack depends on how much damage he has taken. Zazan probably could have beaten him had she been less careful after she entered her second form. It took Feitan quite a bit to armor up and unleash his Sun. Had Zazan kept on the offensive instead of backing off to see what Feitan could do she probably would have crushed him. Feitan's power would also be useless against really powerful people. Lets say he fought Pitou or Youpi. His power requires that he takes damage and if one of those two hit him he would die on the spot.
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Jan 15, 2016 01:09
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MonsterEnvy posted:One Feitan has to be utterly pissed off
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Jan 15, 2016 01:14
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Bad Seafood posted:That's not really much of a restriction for him. There is a difference between being angry and being utterly enraged. Which Feitan was after his arm was broken.
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Jan 15, 2016 01:23
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MonsterEnvy posted:There is a difference between being angry and being utterly enraged. Which Feitan was after his arm was broken. I am fairly certain that was a joke.
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Jan 15, 2016 01:33
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:I am fairly certain that was a joke. Probably.
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Jan 15, 2016 01:51
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MonsterEnvy posted:Had Zazan kept on the offensive instead of backing off to see what Feitan could do she probably would have crushed him. That actually applies to every single fight during that "Phantom Troupe vs Chimera Ants" segment, with the sole exception of Shizuka's (actually, even she would have been hosed if Pike wanted to kill her and just attacked her after catching her in the web). 1. Gorilla thing stands there and lets Phinx get a free hit on him with his Ripper Cyclotron 2. Kalluto's opponent also just stands there between each use of his paper cyclone thing (which only knocked off one of his multiple limbs with each use; that fight was particularly weird since the enemy literally just stands there all like "WHAT IS GOIN ON" between every cyclone). 3. Shalnark's opponent gives him time to use his self-controlling thing, instead of just finishing him off after capturing him 4. Feitan's opponent stands there while he uses his Pain Packer ability 5. Bonolenov's opponent stands there while he dances. In retrospect those were kind of some bad fights, at least by HxH standards. MonsterEnvy posted:There is a difference between being angry and being utterly enraged. Which Feitan was after his arm was broken. Yeah, though it seems like "having trouble with and/or being injured in a fight" is something that inherently enrages him. And getting injured is something that will happen in pretty much any fight that either isn't easy or where you aren't just killed in one shot. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Jan 15, 2016 |
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Jan 15, 2016 02:35
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Ytlaya posted:That actually applies to every single fight during that "Phantom Troupe vs Chimera Ants" segment, with the sole exception of Shizuka's (actually, even she would have been hosed if Pike wanted to kill her and just attacked her after catching her in the web). In regards to 5, I kind of got the impression that Bono's power worked even while he was dodging, as long as he was dodging in a particular way. Also, the Chimera Ant was tired because he was repeatedly on the offensive and failed to land a single hit. Which says a lot about how much stamina Bono must have. Shalnark's opponent was a Manipulator and those dudes presumably like to talk and gloat. I agree with Bad Seafood in that Super Saiyan Shark is bad though.
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Jan 15, 2016 02:42
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Ytlaya posted:In retrospect those were kind of some bad fights, at least by HxH standards. That section was so weird, since the Phantom Troupe seemed to have trouble with ants that seemed weaker then the ones the main story was focused on. It made them look pretty incompetent in general.
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Jan 15, 2016 02:45
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:In regards to 5, I kind of got the impression that Bono's power worked even while he was dodging, as long as he was dodging in a particular way. Also, the Chimera Ant was tired because he was repeatedly on the offensive and failed to land a single hit. Which says a lot about how much stamina Bono must have. I'm willing to buy that, though it seems like it would mean that Bonolenov is absurdly strong and probably second only to Chrollo himself. That Jupiter move is crazy strong*, so I was just assuming "having to dance for a while" was some significant limitation associated with it, but if he can dance while also dodging then it kind of negates that point. *I don't know if it's even possible to avoid it; it followed that Chimera Ant even though it was one of the faster ones, and it's obviously unblockable unless you have some weird special ability. MonsterEnvy posted:There is a difference between being angry and being utterly enraged. Which Feitan was after his arm was broken. To be fair, I got the impression that Zazan was probably the strongest Chimera Ant other than the Royal Guards and King, and we weren't shown anyone (other than the Chairman and "life-sacrificing Gon") who was capable of handling Royal Guards so there could be a pretty big range between the guys Gon/Killua defeated and the guys the Phantrom Troupe fought. That being said, I'm pretty sure that all the guys other than Zazan were below Squadron Leader or whatever the rank below Royal Guard was (I think they were the same rank as that winged rabbit dude Killua easily defeated), in which case yeah - it makes zero sense for the Troupe to have trouble with them. To be honest, I think that whole section was just some fun fanservice for people who wanted to see the Troupe again. Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 03:01 on Jan 15, 2016 |
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Jan 15, 2016 02:58
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Way I figure it, the spiders really don't specialize in fighting alone and the lack of a real leader meant they all mostly did their own thing. That is pure speculation, of course.
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Jan 15, 2016 02:58
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The Troupe's power is something I came to reevaluate as the manga kept going. When they were first introduced in Yorknew, they were heads and shoulders above the rest, and their leader was able to fight against two of the best assassins in the world. We're told that Silver considered them so strong after killing one of them that he told Killua not to mess with them. Hisoka, who has pretty much been the most prominent badass in the manga, is shown to be member. And then they utterly walk over pretty much everyone in the arc except Kurapkia. So you get the feeling that they're all really strong. But then again, Gon and Killua just started out with the nen thing, and even if they're incredibly rare geniuses they're still far less experienced. Most of the people the Troupe stomped were regular mafia mooks incapable of using nen and weakass nen users. And I guess the Mafia's elite nen-using unit, who were somewhat competent but still lost a 4 on 1 matchup against a paralyzed Uvogin. Chrollo is the only one that really comes off as incredibly strong, since he's the only one that actually fought a powerful opponent. They're still strong, obviously. Gon needed nen to beat a regular Shizuka who was using her weaker arm (and she's like ranked 8th in terms of arm wrestling in the Troupe) and Machi's capable of tightening her muscles to the point where Killua isn't able to pull his hand out after stabbing her. And then the Chimera Ant arc happens and we're not really sure of the relatively power levels of the ants. Besides Zazan, all the other ants are just soldier levels, who Gon and Killua are capable of wiping out with ease. Granted, there are varying levels among even ants of the same rank but yeah, it doesn't reflect well on them, even if you assume the ants with Zazan were fairly strong for their ranks. Especially when Killua went through a fuckin' trial that pit him against dozens of ants. Granted, they probably didn't show off all of their abilities, and I guess the fights were a sort of fanservice to show what the Troupe were up to and what their powers were. But they really should have been able to take care of the soldiers (Zazan I can buy as being strong) with just basic nen powers without struggling.
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Jan 15, 2016 03:05
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We like to rag on Kastro, but you still have to admit that Kasto managed to do something a fuckton of hunters couldn't do in the Election arc - hurt Hisoka. Granted, they were playing by different rules and Hisoka wasn't on the offensive and probably not even taking the fight seriously, but it's still a pretty big feat.
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Jan 15, 2016 03:06
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Momomo posted:That section was so weird, since the Phantom Troupe seemed to have trouble with ants that seemed weaker then the ones the main story was focused on. It made them look pretty incompetent in general. Really? I got just the opposite impression due to the fact that they were fighting them one-on-one. EDIT: Lest we forget the main party were getting their poo poo pushed in at the time. Looking back at episode 96 now to refresh my memory, I somehow didn't realize at the time that the music while Bonolenov was fighting quoted the theme from Holst's Jupiter, which is obvious but nonetheless awesome. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz0b4STz1lo&t=2m55s Kytrarewn fucked around with this message at 03:41 on Jan 15, 2016 |
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Jan 15, 2016 03:36
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Kytrarewn posted:Really? I got just the opposite impression due to the fact that they were fighting them one-on-one. EDIT: Lest we forget the main party were getting their poo poo pushed in at the time. They were getting their poo poo pushed in by the Royal Guard, who are all vastly more powerful than the ants the Troupe were up against (with the only possible exception of post-transformation Zazan).
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Jan 15, 2016 04:58
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Ytlaya posted:Then it seems like a person deeply committed to a decent weapon would gently caress up someone deeply committed to fighting with their fists. It's the "all parts equal" part that's important, here; obviously a weaponless nen user who is far more skilled could punk a less skilled person using a weapon. Hisoka uses literal cardboard playing cards as his main weapon. The underlying theme of Shounen Fighting in HxH is that it's the application of your ability that matters.
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Jan 15, 2016 05:18
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Ytlaya posted:They were getting their poo poo pushed in by the Royal Guard, who are all vastly more powerful than the ants the Troupe were up against (with the only possible exception of post-transformation Zazan). Cheetu and Leol would probably be around Zazan's level. but Cheetu was a Dumbass. However Leol only lost his fight with Morel due to the location of the fight and something that he never could have seen coming.
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Jan 15, 2016 06:40
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It really goes back to the root of the problem for me, I really didn't like that the Chimera Ants used Nen like everyone else, and ended up being much better at it within days then people who spent their whole lives doing it. It really didn't lend well to the system they spent so long developing, and just turned it into power levels. Though really, it was a bigger problem that they lasted as long as they did. The exact same stuff could've happened and their downfalls could be seen as "lack of experience", but that excuse doesn't work that well when they have like, thirty episodes to dick around in.
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Jan 15, 2016 06:44
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The Chimera Ant arc might be my favorite, (well, I might like Yorknew or Hunter Exam better, I'm not sure) but it does go on for way too long. Greed Island is probably my least favorite arc, but I think it has a decent enough length. What I'm saying is that an arc probably doesn't need to be longer than Greed Island.
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Jan 15, 2016 06:50
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Momomo posted:It really goes back to the root of the problem for me, I really didn't like that the Chimera Ants used Nen like everyone else, and ended up being much better at it within days then people who spent their whole lives doing it. It really didn't lend well to the system they spent so long developing, and just turned it into power levels. You can blame Pouf for that. He has the power to develop Nen Abilities. Leol pointed out that he was able to master his power in three days thanks to Pouf's help.
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Jan 15, 2016 06:54
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Plus, chimera ants just plain learned quickly due to their rapid growth and inherited memories. All the previous nen stuff was based on how humans learn, and even the chimera ants who decided they were humans who died were fundamentally not human. Besides, they kind of had to learn nen or else they would have been completely helpless against real hunters. They wouldn't be able to perceive nen attacks no matter how strong they were physically.
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Jan 15, 2016 07:02
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Yeah, remember that Kite alone took out a bunch of ants with one swing of his scythe. Even the Squad Captains like Leol were no match, and they were aware of that. Having nen just leveled the playing field, and non-Royal Guard ants still dropped like flies against the major players of the arc.
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Jan 15, 2016 07:10
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She finished it http://twitter.com/tuyoki/status/687857108767903744
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Jan 15, 2016 07:22
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:Yeah, remember that Kite alone took out a bunch of ants with one swing of his scythe. Even the Squad Captains like Leol were no match, and they were aware of that. Yeah, this is true, I just really disliked how long these characters lasted when they were so utterly uninteresting. Other than a couple, all the Chimera Ants under the royals were just about being rebellious and eating humans. It got grating after the second episode they were in, so by the time we even got to the Royals I was absolutely sick of them.
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Jan 15, 2016 07:25
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Yeah, my biggest problem with the Chimera Ant arc is that there's just too many of them and not nearly enough of them are really that interesting or compelling. Hunter x Hunter is actually a pretty lean, tightly-wound series most of the time, so seeing things temporarily devolve to the level of random encounters against trash mobs made the going get tedious. The second half of the arc where it's mostly just the King and the Royal Guards is great, but the first half is a slog.
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Jan 15, 2016 08:20
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YOU CAN SMILE AGAIN!
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Jan 15, 2016 08:22
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Bad Seafood posted:Yeah, my biggest problem with the Chimera Ant arc is that there's just too many of them and not nearly enough of them are really that interesting or compelling. I agree. I usually skip past that part on re-reads and such.
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Jan 15, 2016 08:22
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MonsterEnvy posted:YOU CAN SMILE AGAIN! 
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Jan 15, 2016 15:38
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Ytlaya posted:Then it seems like a person deeply committed to a decent weapon would gently caress up someone deeply committed to fighting with their fists. It's the "all parts equal" part that's important, here; obviously a weaponless nen user who is far more skilled could punk a less skilled person using a weapon. It's basically a thing where 'base power of the item enhanced' matter, and how you use it also matter. Now basically every manipulator and conjurer use weapns, and given that the only two other classes that would really benefit from 'weapons' are Enhancers/Transmuters... there is actually a significant amount of people using weapons. Hisoka (transmuter): Cards. Nobunaga (enhancer): Swords Fei-Tan (transmuter): Swords Killua: Yo-yos Basically, offhand, the only enhancer that never uses a weapon is Phinx. Gon sometimes uses a fishing rod, and Uboguin used maces. Now, Uboguin and Gon could have made a special technique that envolved weapons... but it's more important to have something that 'fits' you, and Gon's technique actually includes making a sword. So basically at that point the only one that seems to have a technique solely centered on his body is Uboguin.... And Uboguin is all about being the strongest physically, so it makes perfect sense. While he totally use maces because why not, his body is definitely stronger than normal swords. ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:We like to rag on Kastro, but you still have to admit that Kasto managed to do something a fuckton of hunters couldn't do in the Election arc - hurt Hisoka. Granted, they were playing by different rules and Hisoka wasn't on the offensive and probably not even taking the fight seriously, but it's still a pretty big feat. Kastro was targetted by Hisoka because hisoka found him a worthy opponent. He wasn't bad by any measure, it's just that Wing is Biscuit's disciple, so he has high standards.
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Jan 15, 2016 16:22
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At least it gave us Phinxs ridiculous hat.
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Jan 15, 2016 17:05
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I probably shouldn't be posting here since I'm only ten episodes in, but I started watching and this show is pretty alright!! I am excited to watch more. well see ya
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Jan 15, 2016 17:34
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The Phantom Troupe dude that does creepy voodoo whistle dances using the holes in his body is the best
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Jan 15, 2016 17:37
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 I don't use Twitter a lot but I seem to have found some of the accounts of HxH animators 
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Jan 20, 2016 06:59
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What about Netero? The Hunter X Hunter wiki stated that he is an Enhancer but to operate the 100-Hand Guanyin, it seemed you needed mastery in every category but since Netero is apparently over 100 years old, I suppose he had the talent and the time maximised his potential. I mean, I struggled how anyone else, besides obviously the Chimera Ant King, could survive a fight with Netero if he is serious. I mean, the Zero Hand move is basically a DragonBall beam attack.
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Jan 20, 2016 16:09
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Even someone who's invincibly strong and fast can theoretically fall victim to some kind of weird trick-type nen. Manipulation or whatever.
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Jan 20, 2016 16:20
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His power seemed to only be emission.
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Jan 20, 2016 16:24
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