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Dervyn posted:Think the new measure is hasher than I would have liked, but it fits our new alien overlords - shoot first, ask questions later. It makes more thematic sense for sure. When you all say they have a chance to shoot, and don't move, is that meant to imply that they always stay in place even if they don't shoot, or will the non-shooters still dive?
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Jan 21, 2016 20:15
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PostNouveau posted:A free overwatch for the uncovered troopers seems about right. You still get a pretty good advantage, but if your initial ambush leaves two or more alive, fixed that for you
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Jan 21, 2016 20:15
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fspades posted:Huh. That's a weird solution, but yeah destroys that tactic in most situations. Well, whatever Shen's final gift is, it'll have to be capable of using cover otherwise the stealth mechanic is pretty much out.
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Jan 21, 2016 20:15
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It's a chance to take a shot right? What happens if a unit doesn't? Run for cover and trigger overwatch anyway? I'm curious what this means for concealment rangers once combat starts. If they get flanked and discovered, do they get shot or is it only on pod activation? aeigiven fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Jan 21, 2016 |
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Jan 21, 2016 20:16
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Mr.Pibbleton posted:Well, whatever Shen's final gift is, it'll have to be capable of using cover otherwise the stealth mechanic is pretty much out. Not really? They can't see you until you get within vision range so a MEC or android or whatever could still work. Also based on the fact Advent MEC autopsies say "They appear to be based on research Dr. Shen was investigating before his death", I'd say MECs or a variant are totally Shen's last gift. Bonus points if they're just fully robotic troopers like the Androids in Apocalypse.
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Jan 21, 2016 20:17
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Shen's Final Gift has to be the SHIV. It's gotta be.
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Jan 21, 2016 20:19
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Segmentation Fault posted:Shen's Final Gift has to be the SHIV. It's gotta be. SHIVs that can be renamed Johnny Five!
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Jan 21, 2016 20:21
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Segmentation Fault posted:Shen's Final Gift has to be the SHIV. It's gotta be. Pilot class that can drive vehicles.
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Jan 21, 2016 20:21
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Dervyn posted:Think the new measure is hasher than I would have liked, but it fits our new alien overlords - shoot first, ask questions later. Anyone who runs is XCOM. Anyone who stands is well disciplined XCOM. 
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Jan 21, 2016 20:24
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:On a live stream they just showed what they changed on the overwatch traps. They have a chance to shoot and they always choose any guy(s) out in the open. They also don't move. So they are still flanked and caught flat-footed and you can chew them up on your turn but you basically don't get a double turn. That is exactly what I suggested earlier in the thread, sweet!
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Jan 21, 2016 20:25
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Ciaphas posted:It makes more thematic sense for sure. The non-shooters do not move. The whole patrol freezes in place. So they are still out in the open on XCOM's turn.
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Jan 21, 2016 20:28
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:The non-shooters do not move. The whole patrol freezes in place. So they are still out in the open on XCOM's turn. The idea is that mechanically either way you get one turn's worth of shots before the pod gets to act, you're just exchanging possible injury to your bait from potshots for your one turn's worth of shots being able to use abilities like lightning hands rather than being mostly concealment overwatch shots That's a move you'll make sometimes, but not every time you can so it seems pretty good to me
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Jan 21, 2016 20:31
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I think opening up with a grenade is probably going to be my go-to with concealment now, unless there's a way to stack Aid Protocol & some other bullshit on a Blast Padding Grenadier that might let them conceivably survive. Smoke grenades would be nice.
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Jan 21, 2016 20:31
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Probably worth testing out just how often a tanky character with high dodge/armor/bonuses will get hit. Might still be worth it to open up some fights with a specialist who's specced as an overwatch, erm, specialist and can shoot back whenever he gets shot at, along with any other classes that get perks based on an enemy shooting at someone. Either way decent change imo. I like that they actually made the best case scenario better by potentially giving you a bunch of flanked, standing aliens to shoot at but balanced it by introducing an actual risk. So you still have the option to try it if you're confident or desperate.
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Jan 21, 2016 20:36
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Yeah, I pretty much imagined this would be the solution. It's simple, targeted against a situation that was always one you should thematically avoid (being discovered out of cover), and means that as the enemies get progressively more dangerous you'll be risking a lot to let them injure/kill your point man.
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Jan 21, 2016 20:39
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UberJew posted:The idea is that mechanically either way you get one turn's worth of shots before the pod gets to act, you're just exchanging possible injury to your bait from potshots for your one turn's worth of shots being able to use abilities like lightning hands rather than being mostly concealment overwatch shots Yeah it's actually a great solution, because I can definitely see times where I want to risk a life for a bigger ambush. Also IMO you SHOULD be scared of patrols. It's not very thematic for on-the-run guerrilla XCOM being discovered by an Advent patrol to be an unambiguous good thing. Edit: The livestream just showed a procedural level that basically funneled XCom into a scary alley killzone to get to their objective. The designers are pissing and moaning about it. Glorious. Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Jan 21, 2016 |
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Jan 21, 2016 20:39
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It's also a good reason to open up the ambush with everybody in cover, right? Because the enemies that choose to shoot instead of dive for cover will then be sitting in open terrain and be totally open for pot-shots. In fact, that creates a good reason to not have your entire squad on overwatch for an ambush.
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Jan 21, 2016 20:41
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Ok, they need to do something about the Pectoid AI because those fuckers stupidly and continually choose psi-necromancery over flanking plasma shots.
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Jan 21, 2016 20:56
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The entire pod stands still? I definitely don't like that, because unless they changed how overwatch works your guys won't shoot them if they don't move and you break concealment, so even if you spring the overwatch trap on your turn you won't get it to actually spring right.
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Jan 21, 2016 21:02
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Strobe posted:The entire pod stands still? I definitely don't like that, because unless they changed how overwatch works your guys won't shoot them if they don't move and you break concealment, so even if you spring the overwatch trap on your turn you won't get it to actually spring right. It only happens if they discover you. Overwatch traps on patrols you initiate against on your turn still work exactly the same. They changed how it works if they discover you on their turn only. Also you can turn it back to the old way with one line in a config file and have massively OP double turns.
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Jan 21, 2016 21:04
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Kenshin posted:It's also a good reason to open up the ambush with everybody in cover, right? Because the enemies that choose to shoot instead of dive for cover will then be sitting in open terrain and be totally open for pot-shots. Yeah, I mean ideally rather than engaging from one side you should be triggering when you're in a position to flank. This was always a risky proposition in EW because you never know if you'd pull another activation, but here you'll be better placed to verify that it's safe before committing to the flanks.
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Jan 21, 2016 21:05
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Ok, they need to do something about the Pectoid AI because those fuckers stupidly and continually choose psi-necromancery over flanking plasma shots. They're only armed with a tiny plasma gauntlet equivalent to a plasma pistol, right? I'd say that necromancy is still a better option for them than taking a shot.
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Jan 21, 2016 21:07
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I'd rather have them do necromancy than doing what Sectoid commanders in EW did and mind control all day.
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Jan 21, 2016 21:42
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Bholder posted:I'd rather have them do necromancy than doing what Sectoid commanders in EW did and mind control all day. Speaking of, I really love that you can just flashbang 'em to stop all that now.
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Jan 21, 2016 21:51
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BenRGamer posted:Speaking of, I really love that you can just flashbang 'em to stop all that now. "BEND TO MY WILL, HUMAN! FOR I AM THE MASTER, AND YOU ARE" *flashbanged* "OWWWW! STOP THAT!"
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Jan 21, 2016 21:58
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Ok, they need to do something about the Pectoid AI because those fuckers stupidly and continually choose psi-necromancery over flanking plasma shots. I actually really like it. The sectoids are still early game units and are supposed to be easy. Making them have a preference for psi abilities still makes them way more of a wild card which is what firaxis wanted (after a certain point in EU sectoids became a non issue). They can mindcontrol you, raise additional units, or panic you in the background while your dealing with the more pressing ADVENT troops which is pretty fitting since they are supposed to be cowards. I imagine this is also something you could fix with a quick tweak if you really wanted.
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Jan 21, 2016 22:05
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i'm gonna give pectoids buttholes and nips
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Jan 21, 2016 22:10
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what would be the grossest pectoid nip color
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Jan 21, 2016 22:11
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Pomp posted:what would be the grossest pectoid nip color drawn in permanent marker ofc 
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Jan 21, 2016 22:13
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Pomp posted:i'm gonna give pectoids buttholes and nips 
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Jan 21, 2016 22:19
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hachi machi
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Jan 21, 2016 22:32
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Why are pectoids so lewd? Even in beaglestream they do things like bend over a lane divider and cup their junk.
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Jan 21, 2016 22:35
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Annointed posted:Why are pectoids so lewd? Even in beaglestream they do things like bend over a lane divider and cup their junk. They are the first generation of clones to have functioning reproductive systems.
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Jan 21, 2016 22:44
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UberJew posted:drawn in permanent marker ofc they made a TFTD manga?
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Jan 21, 2016 22:53
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Segmentation Fault posted:they made a TFTD manga? Brace for the comic book nerds coming to chastice you
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Jan 21, 2016 22:56
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Unrelated but I'm sure somebody in Japan made an XCOM fan-manga.
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Jan 21, 2016 23:06
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Speedball posted:Unrelated but I'm sure somebody in Japan made an XCOM fan-manga. Does GANTZ count?
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Jan 21, 2016 23:09
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Segmentation Fault posted:they made a TFTD manga? It's called Kinetic Strike Man.
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Jan 21, 2016 23:11
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Speedball posted:"BEND TO MY WILL, HUMAN! FOR I AM THE MASTER, AND YOU ARE" *flashbanged* "OWWWW! STOP THAT!" I know you're being facetious but my brother reliably informs me that flashbangs hurt a gently caress of a lot more than an 'ow stop that', certainly enough to screw up concentration 
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Jan 21, 2016 23:16
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Ciaphas posted:I know you're being facetious but my brother reliably informs me that flashbangs hurt a gently caress of a lot more than an 'ow stop that', certainly enough to screw up concentration Your brother needs to stop trying to loving mind control my rookies.
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Jan 21, 2016 23:22
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