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RC Cola posted:Canadiens gently caress you. (From the nhl thread.) Which is all so much horseshit because in the end Egwene dies and Rand lives. With his harem.
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Jan 17, 2016 17:22
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broken clock opsec posted:Which is all so much horseshit because in the end Egwene dies and Rand lives. With his harem.
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Jan 17, 2016 17:29
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It was a pretty cool death though and she was basically the only major character to die.
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Jan 17, 2016 23:48
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it felt unnecessary and forced in that respect though. I wonder if it was Jordan or Sanderson who made the decision.
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Jan 17, 2016 23:50
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Atlas Hugged posted:It was a pretty cool death though and she was basically the only major character to die. How dare you call Bela not a major character 
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Jan 18, 2016 00:21
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BigHead posted:How dare you call Bela not a major character Stop triggering me! Real talk: I was legit much more upset by Rhuarc's death than anyone else's. That was painful.
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Jan 18, 2016 01:55
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JawKnee posted:it felt unnecessary and forced in that respect though. It was Jordan's editor making that decision, I do believe.
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Jan 18, 2016 03:44
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:Stop triggering me! Same. If they killed Mat I would been p mad though
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Jan 18, 2016 04:53
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Siuan and Bryne, and then Bashere were the saddest for me.
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Jan 18, 2016 14:03
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There's also Gawyn. But my reaction to his death was more like "good riddance" or "about time!".
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Jan 18, 2016 15:56
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Torrannor posted:There's also Gawyn. But my reaction to his death was more like "good riddance" or "about time!". Same.
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Jan 18, 2016 17:03
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So how much blame for crappy plot bits and characterization to we currently ascribe to Harriet?
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Jan 18, 2016 17:30
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Siuan's death hit me like a tonne of bricks. There are few people who had a job as tough as hers in the series and she gets literally no thanks for it from anyone apart from Bryne and Egwene. I really really thought she'd get out alive. subpage posted:I remember this as her being more of a "I'll put him in his place" thing. She points out a bunch of super obvious poo poo that anybody would know being raised in a castle, then uses it to try an take the lead with Matt. Once again looking down her nose at her "subjects". I'm pretty sure that someone needing a boil to be lanced or a soldier hiding away a shittonne of booze isn't usually behaviour you'd expect a Princess to be educated in.
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Jan 18, 2016 18:53
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AlternateAccount posted:So how much blame for crappy plot bits and characterization to we currently ascribe to Harriet? If your talking about the Sanderson books, I don't think it's that bad. Brandon was pretty good about blogging and answering in interviews about how most of it came from Jordan's notes. If you wanna see what Harriet has hosed up, go to a book store and leaf through the new encyclopedia book she just released. It's pure rear end.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:31
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Yorkshire Tea posted:Siuan's death hit me like a tonne of bricks. There are few people who had a job as tough as hers in the series and she gets literally no thanks for it from anyone apart from Bryne and Egwene. I really really thought she'd get out alive. And Mat and his band lieutenants were just letting that poo poo fester. It's very obviously a thing where you're meant to experience dissonance over what Mat's narrative is vs. what's really going on, like with Rand, and less obviously so with Perrin. Of course, some people just resolve that dissonance by awarding all points to the POV character's narrative. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Jan 18, 2016 |
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Jan 18, 2016 20:49
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broken clock opsec posted:And Mat and his band lieutenants were just letting that poo poo fester. It's very obviously a thing where you're meant to experience dissonance over what Mat's narrative is vs. what's really going on, like with Rand, and less obviously so with Perrin. The next chapter is from nynaeve's perspective and she talks about how Elyane is purposefully pointing poo poo out that Mat was going to do already to piss him off so he'd do what she wanted him to do aka look at his foxhead
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Jan 18, 2016 21:39
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RC Cola posted:The next chapter is from nynaeve's perspective and she talks about how Elyane is purposefully pointing poo poo out that Mat was going to do already to piss him off so he'd do what she wanted him to do aka look at his foxhead No, that's a Mat thought, and even then he had to mix in there some of the stuff that he and the redbands didn't find out (and this being like day 3-4 into a week-long ride). When Elayne's bunch are finally in their rooms this is Nynaeve's POV: quote:She claimed that by only telling him to do what he had to do anyway which is a different thing altogether. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 22:19 on Jan 18, 2016 |
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Jan 18, 2016 22:16
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broken clock opsec posted:And Mat and his band lieutenants were just letting that poo poo fester. It's very obviously a thing where you're meant to experience dissonance over what Mat's narrative is vs. what's really going on, like with Rand, and less obviously so with Perrin. They found both of those things with the One Power. Elyane expected to be able to call Mat out on a ton of poo poo but only was able to find things with the One Power that would have been hidden from any competent battle commander. Mats response was to shrug, lance the boil, and toss the booze. What really got under Mat's skin was how gaga his troops went over Princess Elyane.
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Jan 18, 2016 23:33
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Blind Melon posted:They found both of those things with the One Power. where was this stated?
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Jan 19, 2016 00:16
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JawKnee posted:where was this stated? It wasn't.
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Jan 19, 2016 00:20
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RC Cola posted:It wasn't. I'm not sure where the Aes Sedai got a booze detection weave, but I want it.
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Jan 19, 2016 12:58
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Yorkshire Tea posted:I'm not sure where the Aes Sedai got a booze detection weave, but I want it. Delving could get the boils but lol if you think Elayne went around doing that, too.
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Jan 19, 2016 15:56
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So ol' Terez did some digging and found out funny things about Taim and his -mandred involvement with Asmodean's demise: http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=8767 I mean, it was obvious  (  )Some good bits in there too about how flexible Robert Jordan was with ideas that seem so well foreshadowed, and a little more on how he structured his notes for those interested. I always find it fun to find out "how the sausage is made" when it comes to media. Pimpmust fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Jan 19, 2016 |
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Jan 19, 2016 19:34
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It finally makes sense what Demandred means at the end of LoC when he says to the Dark One: "Have I not done well, Great Lord?" I have never been able to find out what he was supposed to have done, but if he was Taim... it all becomes clear.
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Jan 19, 2016 19:53
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Torrannor posted:It finally makes sense what Demandred means at the end of LoC when he says to the Dark One: "Have I not done well, Great Lord?" I have never been able to find out what he was supposed to have done, but if he was Taim... it all becomes clear. I think that still makes sense absent the connection. He's just referring to getting Taim into position instead.
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Jan 19, 2016 20:02
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There's some other spots that makes more sense too, but there's some argument over in Theoryland when exactly RJ changed his mind - could have been pre-release of the book or even several books later (or just when he could work in other "changes" to explain away some issues with the change that crops up in LoC). Raises all kinds of interesting questions regarding Shara for example, RJ was kinda upfront early on about Shara not being an important plot locale (seems probable that this was one of the areas Sanderson had a freer hand). The funny part is that *none* of this actually interesting stuff like these notes are in the companion 
Pimpmust fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Jan 19, 2016 |
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Jan 19, 2016 20:29
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Yorkshire Tea posted:I'm not sure where the Aes Sedai got a booze detection weave, but I want it. The One Power enhances senses. She smelled it. Just like Perrin was able to in his camp. Two people with enhanced senses finding a soldiers hidden booze should be an obvious parallel.
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Jan 19, 2016 20:48
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Hadn't come across this RJ quote before, interesting (mirrors certain characterization in the books too I think):quote:Originally Posted by RobertJodan
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Jan 19, 2016 21:34
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broken clock opsec posted:And Mat and his band lieutenants were just letting that poo poo fester. It's very obviously a thing where you're meant to experience dissonance over what Mat's narrative is vs. what's really going on, like with Rand, and less obviously so with Perrin. Pretty sure it's stated over and over that Mat is probably the most competent military commander and officer the world has ever seen. I doubt he was letting anything fester. She just goes and points it out in front of his men so that she can show off and look good in front of his men. She was one of the most unlikable characters in the series really. Great at the game of houses, but a lovely person.
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Jan 23, 2016 04:54
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subpage posted:Pretty sure it's stated over and over that Mat is probably the most competent military commander and officer the world has ever seen. I doubt he was letting anything fester. She just goes and points it out in front of his men so that she can show off and look good in front of his men. She was one of the most unlikable characters in the series really. Great at the game of houses, but a lovely person. Actually, Mat goes through the same process as Perrin does: he wins battles but doesn't run a competent organization until circa book 10. He attracts the survivors of the Shaido siege of Cairhien to him because he was fighting winning battles (saving them and then killing Couladin didn't hurt), but never really accepts full responsibility and command of them in his head. He let his well-intentioned but rigid-in-their-ways subcommanders (the former nobles who started following him instead) lead their subgroups in his Band until those guys nearly all get killed by the gholam (with Talmanes safely aside assisting Egwene at Salidar). He took marching orders from Rand and then Egwene to go to Salidar and then Ebou Dar, but doesn't really start leading his men for himself until he finds the Daughter of the Nine Moons. Then, without his noblemen subcommanders gumming up his organization he leads his men more directly, and wages a hit-run-fade campaign across Altara/etc to keep Tuon ahead of the Darkfriend traitors, and comes into his own as a modern era Great Captain. Perrin's journey mirrors his, though takes longer--and does not conclude until his dealings with the Whitecloaks in Towers of Midnight.
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Jan 23, 2016 06:08
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The Siege of Cairhien is probably the most underrated sequence in the entire series and every time I reread book 5 I'm blown away by just how great it is. I agree with the above that Mat doesn't really reach his full potential until books 10-11. Before that he's winning battles partly on accident (Siege of Cairhien) or doing it strictly to survive. The memories in his head aren't actually coherent. They're bits and pieces filling in gaps of his own memories and making a confused jumble from which he can extract great ideas, and later develop unique strategies based on the memories. But he was still fundamentally Mat and Mat found organizing an army and marching from place to place to be pretty boring and also the kind of thing a dirty noble would do. He wasn't super interested in making sure the camp was well run. He could win a battle despite that and his good for nothing nobles could oversee the day to day while he ran off on his own personal adventures. The camp only needed to be good enough and that's basically how Elayne found it. Also, is Talmanes the greatest tertiary character in the series? How do we even define primary, secondary, and tertiary in this series? I'd go with something like: Primary - Anyone with a substantial number of POV chapters (Rand, Mat, Perrin, Super Girls, etc) Secondary - Anyone with POV chapters in multiple books or is always right there in the action (Lan, Thom) Tertiary - Has a POV chapter somewhere in the series, but most likely only in a Prologue and is present in multiple chapters across the series Minor - Never has a POV and is relevant only in a handful of chapters or less or confined to a single book Or is the series just too dense to even bother trying to label characters that way?
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Jan 23, 2016 15:07
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Atlas Hugged posted:The Siege of Cairhien is probably the most underrated sequence in the entire series and every time I reread book 5 I'm blown away by just how great it is. I agree with the above that Mat doesn't really reach his full potential until books 10-11. Before that he's winning battles partly on accident (Siege of Cairhien) or doing it strictly to survive. The memories in his head aren't actually coherent. They're bits and pieces filling in gaps of his own memories and making a confused jumble from which he can extract great ideas, and later develop unique strategies based on the memories. But he was still fundamentally Mat and Mat found organizing an army and marching from place to place to be pretty boring and also the kind of thing a dirty noble would do. He wasn't super interested in making sure the camp was well run. He could win a battle despite that and his good for nothing nobles could oversee the day to day while he ran off on his own personal adventures. The camp only needed to be good enough and that's basically how Elayne found it. I don't recall talmanes ever having a POV section.
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Jan 23, 2016 16:02
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The Lord Bude posted:I don't recall talmanes ever having a POV section.
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Jan 23, 2016 16:13
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The Lord Bude posted:I don't recall talmanes ever having a POV section. He does and it rules.
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Jan 23, 2016 16:18
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The band of the red shirts getting cut to ribbons during the search for the bowl was a huge bummer. 
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Jan 23, 2016 16:27
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Atlas Hugged posted:I agree with the above that Mat doesn't really reach his full potential until books 10-11. The "lion on the high plains" type passages own so much, when he's finally together with most of the rest of the Band and organizing for the last stand with the Deathwatch against the Seanchan darkfriends legion. VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Jan 23, 2016 |
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Jan 23, 2016 17:11
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I forgot that Elayne and Nynaeve spend the whole series thinking he's an incompetent moron. Also that Tylin literally rapes him
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Jan 23, 2016 18:00
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RC Cola posted:Also that Tylin literally rapes him Worst scene in the whole series right there.
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Jan 24, 2016 13:06
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RC Cola posted:I forgot that Elayne and Nynaeve spend the whole series thinking he's an incompetent moron. Also that Tylin literally rapes him Dunno as a horny teenager I thought a woman going after you like that would be pretty hot Once those teenage hormones wear off and the concept of not wanting sex every second of every day becomes reality, yeah, being forced to strip at knife point and forced into sex is very hosed up, especially with the 'you enjoyed that as much as I did' line.
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Jan 25, 2016 02:53
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Two Finger posted:Dunno as a horny teenager I thought a woman going after you like that would be pretty hot Pretty sure we have statutory rape laws for a reason.
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Jan 25, 2016 04:50
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