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Sunning posted:It was Hiroshi Minagawa who was brought in to split director duties with Hiroyuki Ito. Akitoshi Kawazu was the producer of the game. According to interviews by FFXII staff, Kawazu was the one who turned the game into a shippable product. The major problems with the game's development, such as miscommunication between teams or feature creep, were a structural issue than the fault of any one individual. Kawazu basically spent the last six months of development getting the teams working together and axing content/features that weren't working out. That does explain even more, but it's less of a satisfying answer.
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Jan 28, 2016 20:29
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ImpAtom posted:Your complaints are sort of odd in a game where God is the loving villain. I'm not even spoiling that it's absurdly obvious from the start and half the game is dedicated to Lightning going "Hm, well, God is a poo poo but I DO want to see my sister again." Oh. Well... huh. Should have picked up on that from the first trip into Lightning's head. But yeah, I will be honest. I get that there's heavy handed religion-based plots in other JRPGs but... I guess here it just rubs off as getting close to edgy status? I dunno. Probably just me. NikkolasKing posted:You've played the previous two games, right? Well just know that, Destiny was 2-0 against our heroes but after LR it will be 2=1. I believed I skipped to the end for gameplay/HDD reasons. Plus a goon ITT suggested I go right to it anyway some pages ago.
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Jan 28, 2016 21:04
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corn in the bible posted:you can abuse the hell out of chronostasis to extend your time, if you want. note that if you do run out of time you can start the cycle over again and keep all your equips and stuff (though it resets your quests). so you can just rush the main questlines on your second cycle and sleep til the final day and the boss will dutifully appear. Oh I thought you only got to start over like that if you beat the game. I assumed if you ran out of time you'd just get a game over or something. I really am enjoying it quite a lot though, much more than what little I played of XIII. Not taking itself as seriously seems to help. I liked when I was searching for someone's dead dad and the guy I found was telling me about how he died tragically while also wearing these ridiculous huge pink glasses. I definitely wouldn't have bought it if it hadn't been talked up so much here.
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Jan 28, 2016 22:59
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:I want Matsuno's Final Fantasy, dammit! Or at least Fortress! Because 13 was good and cool and had fun gameplay. 12 was none of that.
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Jan 28, 2016 23:02
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I wonder if there is any sort of consensus on XII vs. XIII. XII is weird in that no one really cares about it while XIII still has a ton of haters. Whether this means one is generally more acclaimed than the other, I dunno. XIII's hallways might put people to sleep but so can XII's combat. Both games have awful pacing but for different reasons. XIII has better music but XII has better voice-acting. Its a tricky one alright.
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Jan 28, 2016 23:24
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There's never any consensus on FF in general because outside of a few references, they are widely different jrpgs under the FF name branch. It's not like Dragon Quest that's stayed the same for 11+ games or Breath of Fire which literally had the same named main characters for the franchise.
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Jan 28, 2016 23:26
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ff12 is so boring that the game lets you create ways for the game to play itself so you can go do something else
General Morden fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Jan 28, 2016 |
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Jan 28, 2016 23:27
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Because 13 was good and cool and had fun gameplay. 12 was none of that. I respectfully disagree.
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Jan 28, 2016 23:28
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Memory is sketchy but I remember people making GBS threads on 12 in a big way in the day though that seems to have retrospectively shifted to appreciation. Similar ire to what 13 gets anyway
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Jan 28, 2016 23:32
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I'm pretty sure XII got amazing reviews at the time It'd be interesting to see what kind of scores it would get today though
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Jan 28, 2016 23:33
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Shaquin posted:Memory is sketchy but I remember people making GBS threads on 12 in a big way in the day though that seems to have retrospectively shifted to appreciation. Similar ire to what 13 gets anyway FF12 was one of the highest rated games on the PS2
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Jan 28, 2016 23:36
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FF12 got great reviews but a lot of negativity at launch, a lot of which tended to get foisted off on Square-Enix for driving the director nuts/similar claims. It just ended up not really being hated but kind of forgotten instead. It has some strong fans but people just don't seem to bring it up much compared to really really hating it.
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Jan 28, 2016 23:37
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I think it either clicks with you or it doesn't.
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Jan 28, 2016 23:47
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FactsAreUseless posted:I think it either clicks with you or it doesn't. Similar to FF8!
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Jan 28, 2016 23:49
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ImpAtom posted:FF12 got great reviews but a lot of negativity at launch, a lot of which tended to get foisted off on Square-Enix for driving the director nuts/similar claims. It just ended up not really being hated but kind of forgotten instead. It has some strong fans but people just don't seem to bring it up much compared to really really hating it. I definitely remember the anger over the game "playing itself" being something discussed back when it was new, as well.
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Jan 28, 2016 23:49
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Srice posted:I definitely remember the anger over the game "playing itself" being something discussed back when it was new, as well. It's never been true at all. The gambit system largely just lets you streamline attack patterns so you can freely micromanage your party and pick what spells and buffs you want to be putting up. I thought the whole thing made combat much more seamless and fluid without losing any of the charm or basic rhythm of the classic turn-based systems.
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Jan 28, 2016 23:51
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FactsAreUseless posted:I think it either clicks with you or it doesn't. Pretty much. But you know what would click, regardless of that? Gilgamesh with guns.  But really, though. Sometimes ya gotta say "Nah, I'll skip this installment". Helps ease stress on poo poo, y'know.
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Jan 28, 2016 23:52
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I saw FF12 in a store once a few years ago and I had never played it so later I asked a friend "Hey should I buy FF12 for 10 bucks" and she said "sure whatever" so I did and a few days later I met her again and said "Hey I bought FF12 for 10 bucks" and she just looked at me for a few seconds, then said "why the gently caress would you do that" I didn't really get far at all. I remember fighting a Judge in an airship or something and that's as far as I got.
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Jan 28, 2016 23:54
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Help Im Alive posted:I'm pretty sure XII got amazing reviews at the time Any big Square game got amazing reviews back then. Even FF8 and Chrono Cross, games with some pretty huge objective flaws yet still got near perfect scores. I'm playing FF12 for the first time. This Sandsea part really sucks. I remember someone mentioning that to me a few ages ago. Even though the game plays itself mostly, I think back to some other FFs like FF9 where the regular battles are just as mindless. At least in this one, I can read the forums on my laptop while the battle is going on. So it's not as annoying as FF9's battles.
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Jan 28, 2016 23:56
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widespread posted:Pretty much. But you know what would click, regardless of that? Gilgamesh with guns. I was never able to get high level enough to even fight Gilgamesh with guns. Even after the game was beaten, I was also beaten, by him. I didn't want to play any more after that.
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Jan 28, 2016 23:57
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8-Bit Scholar posted:It's never been true at all. The gambit system largely just lets you streamline attack patterns so you can freely micromanage your party and pick what spells and buffs you want to be putting up. I thought the whole thing made combat much more seamless and fluid without losing any of the charm or basic rhythm of the classic turn-based systems. Yeah that's correct. That was just the rhetoric going around back in those days. Newest FF game is always the worst, etc.
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Jan 28, 2016 23:59
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I don't even care about the combat in ff12. The huge empty areas are what made me hate it. loving ogir yensa sandsea
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Jan 29, 2016 00:08
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Help Im Alive posted:I'm pretty sure XII got amazing reviews at the time How would a semi-open world RPG with large environments, hunting quests selected off a notice board, MMO style combat, programmable AI for party members, and a politically charged plot about a civil war started by a kingslayer score in today's AAA RPG market? If they port it to modern platforms, we'll find out. The FFX HD Remaster got an 85 on metacritic. For an apples to oranges comparison, Dragon Age Inquisition got a 86-89 on metacritic and won the most number of GoTY awards for that year.
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Jan 29, 2016 00:12
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Sunning posted:For an apples to oranges comparison, Dragon Age Inquisition got a 86-89 on metacritic and won the most number of GoTY awards for that year. That was a really sad year for games if DAI was anywhere near any GOTYs
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Jan 29, 2016 00:15
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8-Bit Scholar posted:It's never been true at all. The gambit system largely just lets you streamline attack patterns so you can freely micromanage your party and pick what spells and buffs you want to be putting up. I thought the whole thing made combat much more seamless and fluid without losing any of the charm or basic rhythm of the classic turn-based systems. I literally played through most of the game with an automatic AI and they added a speed-up button to the game in the International edition because it was so slow. It is absolutely true. The only thing that actually slowed things down was how slow it took you to get certain gambits in the original version, not that the system didn't support them.
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Jan 29, 2016 00:16
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I like FF12 but it really was obnoxiously slow at the default speed. Without the speed-up option in the international edition I would never have completed it.
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Jan 29, 2016 00:20
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8-Bit Scholar posted:I was never able to get high level enough to even fight Gilgamesh with guns. Even after the game was beaten, I was also beaten, by him. Same thing here. I had this whole big plan to beat all the Colosseum bosses but there came a time when I was just like "eh, I've had enough" and turned XIII-2 off. It wasn't like I hated it or anything... I had the same thing happen with Skyrim, another game I was addicted to. I just reached some unconscious limit. As it is, I only managed to beat Omega and Lightning/Amodar. I couldn't even beat Jihl. I think I needed more preparation for thatone, like status resisting items. Why wasn't Amodar in Lightning Returns? Well I mean, I guess he's kinda dead....but still. I am grateful they brought back this character who was in one cutscene in XIII back to XIII-2 as both a boss and a game show-hosting replicant.
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Jan 29, 2016 00:20
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FF12 gets the honor of also being the worst game in the series because it is simultaneously bad for playing itself, while also being bad because it doesn't have enough options of gambits to actually play itself.
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Jan 29, 2016 00:21
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I don't know why you'd want to make it play itself when you have every option to make it play how you want to make it play. I just set a few basic time-saving gambits up and then I'd use my own judgment on selecting skills and swapping characters and it was good fun. Like, you can adjust it to play how you like. That's what is cool about it.
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Jan 29, 2016 00:25
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8-Bit Scholar posted:I don't know why you'd want to make it play itself when you have every option to make it play how you want to make it play. Because the game interface is really bad because it's designed around using gambits to automate as much as possible and there's no actual benefit to picking Fire myself instead of automating the game to do it. That is also why I don't not use Gambits at all because the menu interface is really bad and all not using gambits does is slow everything down and make it more awkward.
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Jan 29, 2016 00:28
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8-Bit Scholar posted:I don't know why you'd want to make it play itself when you have every option to make it play how you want to make it play. Exactly. I set up Gambits for healing and basic attacking but that was it. I controlled everything else myself. I always had full control of one character too. I can tell you, having control over your party is a nice thing. XIII's AI made me recognize that.
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Jan 29, 2016 00:28
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Sometimes I have to wonder if people forget what series they are talking about when they gripe about the post-2000 games. I've been spamming the poo poo out of the fast forward button in FF7 by the way.
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Jan 29, 2016 00:36
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corn in the bible posted:I don't even care about the combat in ff12. The huge empty areas are what made me hate it. loving ogir yensa sandsea This and the fact that the antagonists and their plans were largely disconnected to anything you were doing for the fires 35 of 40 hours of the games main story really drag it down. FF12 and 13 share a lot of problems, weirdly enough. 12 just doesn't have gameplay I'd ever call fun or engaging like other 13 had. 8-Bit Scholar posted:I don't know why you'd want to make it play itself when you have every option to make it play how you want to make it play. Because the games menu and action design are built heavily around you setting up a lot of gambits to automate it as much as you can. It's why a decent percentage of any version of the Licenses Board is filled with nothing but "Get another Gambit slot!".
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Jan 29, 2016 00:38
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Augus posted:Sometimes I have to wonder if people forget what series they are talking about when they gripe about the post-2000 games. I would probably be annoyed about the older games being slow too but it's been such a long time since I played them that I can't remember.
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Jan 29, 2016 00:40
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I probably would've liked FFXII more if the voices weren't compressed to the point of sounding incredibly tinny. Also because the game tried to have a grand sweeping plot but then was forced to wrap it up so it just kind of ends suddenly.
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Jan 29, 2016 00:56
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NikkolasKing posted:I wonder if there is any sort of consensus on XII vs. XIII. XII is weird in that no one really cares about it while XIII still has a ton of haters. Whether this means one is generally more acclaimed than the other, I dunno. 12 is boring 13 is bad
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Jan 29, 2016 01:04
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I feel like the past page of discussion can be summed up as "Hey yo read the thread title".
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Jan 29, 2016 01:20
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the most damning thing you can say about 12 is that it's boring
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Jan 29, 2016 01:22
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:This and the fact that the antagonists and their plans were largely disconnected to anything you were doing for the fires 35 of 40 hours of the games main story really drag it down. Yeah the License Board was kind of meh. A shame, but it's not a big deal. But to set up characters who fight enemies entirely devoid of player input takes a lot of active effort, so I don't feel the game should be blamed for that aspect of its design. And again, in the harder boss battles and mob rushes, the automated attack system allowed me to basically coordinate six-man groups on my own, swapping people out and doing things three-at-a-time of course. It just eliminates the need to repetetively press attack and instead gives me more strategic opportunities.
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Jan 29, 2016 01:23
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That's basically the most damning thing for a video game period though
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Jan 29, 2016 01:23
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