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Doctor Bombadil posted:It's not exactly not true. What isn't?
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Feb 19, 2016 14:46
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Keiya posted:How many buildings have you been in where you have to go up two floors around a curve, a detour to open a locked door, then down the elevator three floors then up some stairs to get to the other side of a wall? I'm willing to bet the answer is nearly zero, humans think in 2d most of the time. That nearly describes one of the classroom buildings on my old college campus, place was a bastard to get around.
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Feb 19, 2016 15:32
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fishmech posted:That nearly describes one of the classroom buildings on my old college campus, place was a bastard to get around. Yeah that's the other reason I had to say 'nearly'. You get buildings that have had wings added a dozen times, all of them designed by 'artistic' architects, and you end up with a clusterfuck. But that's kind of the opposite of good architecture so?
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Feb 19, 2016 15:44
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bullet3 posted:Serious Sam has no level structure and is a loving repetitive series of open spaces with 1000 enemies. Welcome to modern doom wads.
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Feb 19, 2016 15:58
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Black Baby Goku posted:What isn't? Calling it Retard 4 makes sense, I meant.
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Feb 19, 2016 16:01
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Doctor Bombadil posted:Calling it Retard 4 makes sense, I meant. Yeah that's why I have been calling it that
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Feb 19, 2016 16:02
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Also this is the best Doom: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNPBVGalZHA
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Feb 19, 2016 16:03
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I've never been able to get into Serious Sam. Its only remotely like Doom really, the gigantic open spaces and constant back-pedaling are very different from doom's ice-skating around level geometry to slap some monster in the face with the SSG. And a big thing in doom is how you have to handle different enemies differently, when you run into a group you've gotta dance around and think about who to shoot first. With Serious Sam you just hold backwards and shoot until all the things chasing you die. Compared to serious sam, doom's enemies practically stand still.
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Feb 19, 2016 16:08
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http://www.somethingawful.com/news/doom-box-comic/ LIIINDA! 
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Feb 19, 2016 16:29
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Keiya posted:Yeah that's the other reason I had to say 'nearly'. You get buildings that have had wings added a dozen times, all of them designed by 'artistic' architects, and you end up with a clusterfuck. But that's kind of the opposite of good architecture so? And which sort of building is a game set in a partially hell-transformed world going to have more of? The plain jane regular floor design building, or something that's all hosed up and weird inside?
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Feb 19, 2016 16:32
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Linguica posted:Look at how the bump mapping makes the guy's coat have a weird unnatural sheen to it. You can't post images of that guy without posting the stuff he types on his monitor  Man I really loved Doom 3. The audio logs were still the best audio logs in any game I've played. Course I played through it before I picked up HL2 so the experience wasn't tainted by how amazing HL2 was. oswald ownenstein fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Feb 19, 2016 |
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Feb 19, 2016 17:31
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Panzeh posted:Welcome to modern doom wads.
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Feb 19, 2016 17:32
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Its true of bad doom wads, which existed before and exist now. But its not true of good doom wads, of which there are several modern ones https://www.doomworld.com/22years/
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Feb 19, 2016 17:48
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just got to the posts about painkiller having bad level design sa games posters continue to be forgetful psychos
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Feb 19, 2016 18:24
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oswald ownenstein posted:You can't post images of that guy without posting the stuff he types on his monitor Doom 3 had some good stuff near the end, it only had 2 boss fights though. I really liked the story of it going through the logs. There was one of those rooms you follow the robot, the last one you don't get a light. I ran through there with the shotgun waiting for the imps to start their fireballs to show me where too shoot was really fun. I bought the ultimate edition but never really played it, the game is really dated.
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Feb 19, 2016 18:28
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Tenzarin posted:Doom 3 had some good stuff near the end, it only had 2 boss fights though. I really liked the story of it going through the logs. To be fair Quake only had 2 boss fights also  And the end boss was pretty weird too. The first guy was okay though.
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Feb 19, 2016 18:33
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Zaphod42 posted:Its true of bad doom wads, which existed before and exist now. But its not true of good doom wads, of which there are several modern ones Even good wads tend to throw in levels with 300 monsters like it aint no thang.
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Feb 19, 2016 18:43
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Panzeh posted:Even good wads tend to throw in levels with 300 monsters like it aint no thang. You didn't say not have 300 or more monsters, though. I tend to prefer the smaller bite-sized levels (that recent rf1024 or whatever was like a dream come true, even though I don't actually prefer the artificial spatial constraints) but a properly balanced 300-monster map is also great.
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Feb 19, 2016 18:50
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For people who like Doom 3, and like Doom WADs, check out RTC 3057. Make sure to check the read-me and use the version of Zdoom it specifies, since some later versions broke compatibility with some of the scripting it uses. E: I should warn people: this is not a "classic" Doom level pack. It's one of the more complex Wads ever released. Made by the same folks who are making Doom 3: Phobos. /shameless plug
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Feb 19, 2016 18:57
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Zigmidge posted:just got to the posts about painkiller having bad level design Well, they were a step up from serious sam by actually being varied and interesting to look at sometimes, but it was just "oh, you defeated everyone in this arena? Okay this locked door is now open, please proceed to the next arena where everyone spontaneously spawns in around you, and you kill them to unlock the next door to the next area." It is incredibly forced and the enemies are boring to fight most of the time. I forced myself through it, but I don't think I'll ever willing play painkiller ever again. Not to say that there weren't some levels in there that broke the mold, the amusement park comes to mind. Shadow warrior was the same, but actually had a decent overarching story as well, and varied the enemies sometimes. I found the guns boring to play with though.
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Feb 19, 2016 19:16
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Panzeh posted:Even good wads tend to throw in levels with 300 monsters like it aint no thang.
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Feb 19, 2016 19:19
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AirRaid posted:For people who like Doom 3, and like Doom WADs, check out RTC 3057. Make sure to check the read-me and use the version of Zdoom it specifies, since some later versions broke compatibility with some of the scripting it uses. These both actually look pretty cool, I'll download em and check it out after work. Shameless plug means you worked on these, right? Nice dude. Or are you just a fan?
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Feb 19, 2016 19:33
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Broose posted:Well, they were a step up from serious sam by actually being varied and interesting to look at sometimes, but it was just "oh, you defeated everyone in this arena? Okay this locked door is now open, please proceed to the next arena where everyone spontaneously spawns in around you, and you kill them to unlock the next door to the next area." It is incredibly forced and the enemies are boring to fight most of the time. I forced myself through it, but I don't think I'll ever willing play painkiller ever again. Not to say that there weren't some levels in there that broke the mold, the amusement park comes to mind. Serious Sam is not a serious game. It's meant to be played in a lan on the highest difficulty with unlimited spawns. Serious Sam SE is the best, serious Sam 2 is complete poo poo, serious Sam BFE was pretty good! Last level of BFE actually felt like a SE level, it took like 4 hours to play it with hundreds of monsters on the screen. gently caress those were good games.
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Feb 19, 2016 19:39
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Zaphod42 posted:These both actually look pretty cool, I'll download em and check it out after work. Yeah I'm part of that team (I don't do any actual mapping though because I'm bad at that). I just did testing for RTC3057. Phobos isn't done yet, and won't be before Doom '16 comes out, but it will be awesome. It's more than just new maps, we've overhauled most of the weapons, fixed nearly every complaint I've seen in here (weak shotgun, bad sounds etc). It's a real blast to play, and the guys making the maps and setting up the fights are really good at what they do. And we have a goddamn arachnotron. Old teaser from a couple years back https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUIbbVeLl2g AirRaid fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Feb 19, 2016 |
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Feb 19, 2016 19:44
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Tenzarin posted:Doom 3 had some good stuff near the end, it only had 2 boss fights though. I really liked the story of it going through the logs. Tbh I found the game scary as gently caress. As in I couldn't play more than a few hours w/o getting too creeped out. Hadn't really played any survival horror games before that. About halfway through either due to the change in level design or just getting psychologically hardened, it shifted into more of blasting poo poo. Still remember that early sequence where the guy is like "up here!" and I'm like "yes. lets just live here and wait this whole thing out"
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Feb 19, 2016 20:16
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i liked Romero's new version of E1M8 he put out earlier this year
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Feb 19, 2016 20:25
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I love Doom 3, but by the time the game gets going there's only 7 levels left. Everything from the beginning until you reach Hell, which is around 17 levels I think? Is almost always Imps, Imps and more Imps, all which you can instakill with your shotgun while they're doing their teleport/growling animation. By the time the game starts varying up enemies, switching to mid-long range encounters, and getting somewhat challenging, there's only two hours left, tops. The Resurrection of Evil expansion pack was a bit better about this despite its love for that new enemy they introduced (that faster Imp variant), but it also had that lovely gimmick artefact that trivialized a lot of the combat.
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Feb 19, 2016 20:47
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oswald ownenstein posted:Tbh I found the game scary as gently caress. As in I couldn't play more than a few hours w/o getting too creeped out. Hadn't really played any survival horror games before that. After the floaters chased the truck I was like  . But I just toughed through it.
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Feb 19, 2016 20:47
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I made a tweet to a bunch of old school id Software people saying they should play some Doom deathmatch for charity: https://twitter.com/xenomrph/status/700399319019425792 3 of the 5 people I name dropped seemed to like the idea.
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Feb 19, 2016 20:53
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They should just make a "Retro" Doom4 that uses the Doom2 engine with maybe 2 new weapons, one new monster, and levels by the original guys.
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Feb 19, 2016 22:02
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GUI posted:I love Doom 3, but by the time the game gets going there's only 7 levels left. Everything from the beginning until you reach Hell, which is around 17 levels I think? Is almost always Imps, Imps and more Imps, all which you can instakill with your shotgun while they're doing their teleport/growling animation. By the time the game starts varying up enemies, switching to mid-long range encounters, and getting somewhat challenging, there's only two hours left, tops. The Resurrection of Evil expansion pack was a bit better about this despite its love for that new enemy they introduced (that faster Imp variant), but it also had that lovely gimmick artefact that trivialized a lot of the combat. The regular doom 3 artifact made the game super easy too.
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Feb 19, 2016 22:10
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Philthy posted:They should just make a "Retro" Doom4 that uses the Doom2 engine with maybe 2 new weapons, one new monster, and levels by the original guys. Honestly that's not a bad idea at all. The overhead cost would be loving minimal compared to any kind of modern game budget, and you could get a huge amount of sales just off the names of Romero and co, and you gotta imagine that Romero would probably be down for it. He just pushed out a new classic doom map even! Bundle up a few maps from each of them and make it like Doom 1 Episode 5 or somthing. The same way they did Final Doom ep 4 Thy Flesh Consumed after doom 2. (or around the same time?) In fact, if Bethesda was really smart they'd go ahead and do that as a promotion for DOOM not-4.
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Feb 19, 2016 22:15
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One of my favorites https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKTGBw1lMYo Seriously - there's a ton of them and they really help tell the story of Doom3. The gunplay was just ok in that game, but the gameplay experience was really engrossing for me. And they have to get some love for the way they incorporated the touchpads and cursor seamlessly into the game for when you were unlocking cabinets.
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Feb 19, 2016 22:27
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oswald ownenstein posted:One of my favorites Its weird, Bioshock gets all the credit for the audio logs, but Doom 3 actually came out first didn't it? And yet when I think about it, even in my memory it feels like doom "copied" bioshock. But that makes no sense. Well, for that matter I guess System Shock came out first and did the same thing too. But yeah, the seamless interaction with touchpads was loving awesome, I posted in this thread awhile back that it was definitely one of the more impressive things about doom 3, really unique. I mean to this day I can't even think of another game that did that.
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Feb 19, 2016 22:39
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Zaphod42 posted:Its weird, Bioshock gets all the credit for the audio logs Thats because it was on the Xbox and all the kids who played Halo(The First First Person Shooter, online multiplayer game). I'm pretty sure a ton of games had audio logs. System Shock 2 had audio logs.
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Feb 19, 2016 22:42
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Tenzarin posted:Thats because it was on the Xbox and all the kids who played Halo(The First First Person Shooter, online multiplayer game). I'm pretty sure a ton of games had audio logs. Yeah, I remember the Doom3 devs saying the audio logs were an homage to System Shock 2.
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Feb 19, 2016 23:01
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fishmech posted:And which sort of building is a game set in a partially hell-transformed world going to have more of? The plain jane regular floor design building, or something that's all hosed up and weird inside? hosed up weird ones. Which is why the automap is important, a building that the player can't navigate in is a bad thing but you want the architecture to be a bit weird. So you give them tools to navigate. Doctor Bombadil posted:Also this is the best Doom: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNPBVGalZHA That's not Swan Fox WHOOPS!
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Feb 20, 2016 00:31
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Zaphod42 posted:The QTE kills are one of my biggest turn-offs of the game right now. I don't see why they don't make semi-interactive QTEs; like where the animation plays but you can choose when your guy chops the sword or fires the gun or whatever. So you can have them all long and drawn out or just pull the trigger for a quick gore kill.
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Feb 20, 2016 01:10
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The fight about QTE's begins.
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Feb 20, 2016 01:16
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Keiya posted:hosed up weird ones. Which is why the automap is important, a building that the player can't navigate in is a bad thing but you want the architecture to be a bit weird. So you give them tools to navigate. And the problem is, it's hard to implement a good automap when you've got the weird architecture that most needs an automap, once it's no longer 1993/1994 where everything is on a single level, as far as the level design goes.
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Feb 20, 2016 01:20
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