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akadajet posted:lol and this guy has the gall to complain about working with driver vendors. his complaints p much boil down to "they won't just do what I say"
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Feb 17, 2016 08:13
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it is a p. common deficiency among programmers to vastly overestimate the value of the software you work on, and vastly underestimate the value of the things that depend on it techniques for maintaining backwards compatibility should really be one of the top priorities in software engineering. the sum total value of windows 95 and earlier software still in active use in the world likely rivals microsofts market cap
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Feb 17, 2016 13:02
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do apple thunderbolt -> ethernet adapters work in linux?
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Feb 17, 2016 17:19
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:it is a p. common deficiency among programmers to vastly overestimate the value of the software you work on, and vastly underestimate the value of the things that depend on it the world banking system will collapse when the last fat neckbeard with good fortran knowledge retires
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Feb 17, 2016 17:30
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Good, we haven't had one of those in almost a decade.
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Feb 17, 2016 17:37
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blowfish posted:the world banking system will collapse when the last fat neckbeard with good fortran knowledge retires this is true
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Feb 17, 2016 18:00
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I feel like people are continuing to use Gtk2 five years after Gtk3 came out purely to spite me at this point Hey who needs their UIs to work on HiDPI screens anyway
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Feb 17, 2016 22:02
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Mr Dog posted:I feel like people are continuing to use Gtk2 five years after Gtk3 came out purely to spite me at this point probably not most desktop linux users?
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Feb 17, 2016 22:16
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linux doesn't need more then 1366x768
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Feb 17, 2016 22:31
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Mr Dog posted:I feel like people are continuing to use Gtk2 five years after Gtk3 came out purely to spite me at this point is gtk3 binary compatible with gtk2? if not there's your answer
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Feb 17, 2016 23:09
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theultimo posted:linux doesn't need more then 1366x768 i use terminal mode in 4k
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Feb 17, 2016 23:12
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theultimo posted:linux doesn't need more then 1366x768 I don't need desktop realestate when I can just use 13 virtual desktops??
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Feb 17, 2016 23:12
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eschaton posted:is gtk3 binary compatible with gtk2? I think Linus himself encountered such problems with his diving calculator app and created a nice long rant about how poo poo desktop toolkit developers are and how they constantly break things.
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Feb 17, 2016 23:16
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Gtk2 and Qt4 still work, but they're EOL and they don't support HiDPI (or Wayland or other such stuff). Same as how nobody develops for MFC on Win32 or Carbon on OSX any more, but you don't hear people complaining about Carbon being deprecated and having to write UI code in ObjC.
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Feb 17, 2016 23:20
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Mr Dog posted:Gtk2 and Qt4 still work, but they're EOL and they don't support HiDPI (or Wayland or other such stuff). you don't hear people complaining because carbon is still fully supported despite being deprecated. same with mfc meanwhile gtk2 is a gigantic abandoned shitpile, and gtk3 wasn't even close to a viable replacement when gtk2 was originally abandoned Notorious b.s.d. fucked around with this message at 23:23 on Feb 17, 2016 |
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Feb 17, 2016 23:21
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Lysidas posted:do apple thunderbolt -> ethernet adapters work in linux? if plugged in before power up, probably yes. it's some off the shelf broadcom pcie nic inside and that chip should already have a driver. idk if anyone has done the work to support tb pcie hotplug in linux so it might not do the right thing if the device wasn't already enumerated by firmware when control was handed off to an os
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Feb 17, 2016 23:26
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Lysidas posted:do apple thunderbolt -> ethernet adapters work in linux? BobHoward posted:if plugged in before power up, probably yes. it's some off the shelf broadcom pcie nic inside and that chip should already have a driver. idk if anyone has done the work to support tb pcie hotplug in linux so it might not do the right thing if the device wasn't already enumerated by firmware when control was handed off to an os i have actually done this. they work 100% if they are plugged in at boot. hotplug hypothetically "works" if you install linux natively (no boot camp) but the last time i tried it, it was so unreliable that you couldn't count on it. it feels like half the time it fails to come up, the other half of the time it hangs the system. it's very possible the status of that code has improved, that was very early days edit: just by the by, the standards for thunderbolt indicate that the system firmware is supposed to do all the heavy lifting. but apple moved that code into osx. so if the firmware thinks you're running osx, it doesn't do any device initialization after boot. unfortunately Linux has to tell the hardware that it's actually OSX to get other things to be un-broken. Ugh. Notorious b.s.d. fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Feb 17, 2016 |
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Feb 17, 2016 23:31
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:you don't hear people complaining because carbon is still fully supported despite being deprecated. same with mfc There's no 64-bit version of Carbon and it was EOLed in 2012, around when Gtk3 came out. Gtk2 still works and still gets bug fixes. They're on point release 24 or something like that now. But it doesn't support HiDPI and it doesn't support Wayland, and it still uses the old-rear end GDK rendering backend and its old theming engines and all that stuff. Classic Win32 GUI programs don't look so hot on HiDPI screens either.
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Feb 17, 2016 23:33
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of course they didn't update carbon to be 64 bit. but your old 32 bit applications will still compile and link just fine
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Feb 17, 2016 23:34
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Mr Dog posted:Same as how nobody develops for MFC on Win32 or Carbon on OSX any more, but you don't hear people complaining about Carbon being deprecated and having to write UI code in ObjC. I sure heard the screams when it happened. also that was a matter of platform direction, not a new version of a framework breaking binary compatibility with an older version. gtk2 to gtk3 breaking binary compatibility is like Cocoa on OS X 10.5 breaking binary compatibility with Cocoa on 10.4, which just doesn't happen. the core frameworks are sufficiently stable that code compiled in 2006 for the first Intel-based Macs running 10.4 runs just fine on the very latest running 10.11 as-is, without even a recompile
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Feb 18, 2016 00:01
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You can still compile Gtk2 code written ten years ago and have it work today jfc what is this straw man you people are savagely demolishingeschaton posted:gtk2 to gtk3 breaking binary compatibility is like Cocoa on OS X 10.5 breaking binary compatibility with Cocoa on 10.4 No, it really isn't. It's an incompatible new revision of the toolkit that's co-installable with the previous version. That's what a bump in the major version number means, it's a change in ~*platform direction*~ in the same sense. https://developer.gnome.org/gtk3/stable/gtk-migrating-2-to-3.html The porting process isn't exactly onerous either, it's basically just "If you render your own custom 2D graphics in your widgets then use Cairo to do it instead of GDK's native 2D graphics wrappers". Certainly nothing like having to port your UI code from C to Objective C.
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Feb 18, 2016 00:10
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blowfish posted:the world banking system will collapse when the last fat neckbeard with good fortran knowledge retires same, except cobol
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Feb 18, 2016 03:22
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Mr Dog posted:Gtk2 still works and still gets bug fixes. They're on point release 24 or something like that now. i thought you were talking about gtk 2.24, and you're not. they are actually supporting gtk 2.24 with additional bugfix releases, most recently 2.24.29 in december of 2015 i am very happy to be wrong about this thank you mr dog for pointing out that i am wrong and the gtk maintainers are doing something right
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Feb 18, 2016 04:58
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blowfish posted:the world banking system will collapse when the last fat neckbeard with good fortran knowledge retires craisins posted:same, except cobol banks and payroll companies and all the other mainframe users realized this was a problem 20 years ago as a result, cobol programmers are very often pimply faced youths, not greybeards. all the greybeards are retired or dead and now they just churn through a bunch of high-turnover young people i don't want to think about what this means for code quality
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Feb 18, 2016 04:59
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:banks and payroll companies and all the other mainframe users realized this was a problem 20 years ago don't we have all of those modern software engineering techniques that promote development and retain quality? Test driven design? Scrumming? Continuous Integration? DevOps? Stuff the kids are learning in college? Don't tell me that you can't simply throw a buzzword at a Hey, my buddy recommended Confluence so I got a copy for everyone. Make sure there's a ticket for whatever anyone is working on and CC me on everything.
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Feb 18, 2016 07:56
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Mr Dog posted:I feel like people are continuing to use Gtk2 five years after Gtk3 came out purely to spite me at this point nice work exemplifying the point about backwards compatibility, software build on gtk2 is likely still far more valuable than gtk2 itself, gtk3, and all software on gtk3, put together. good work throwing out a bunch of value for your own loving convenience and ideals gtk devs
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Feb 18, 2016 10:37
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celeron 300a posted:don't we have all of those modern software engineering techniques that promote development and retain quality? DevOps ftw
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Feb 18, 2016 12:02
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Cybernetic Vermin posted:nice work exemplifying the point about backwards compatibility, software build on gtk2 is likely still far more valuable than gtk2 itself, gtk3, and all software on gtk3, put together. good work throwing out a bunch of value for your own loving convenience and ideals gtk devs in the context of backwards compatibility, the value of software on [Version X] is the cost to move it to [Version X+1], not the revenue it actually generates
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Feb 18, 2016 18:41
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KDE is the worst loving desktop environment I have ever had the displeasure to use. Zero redeemable qualities. It has blanketed me in piss.
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Feb 18, 2016 19:34
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kde plasma 5 owns
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Feb 18, 2016 19:36
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Tankakern posted:kde plasma 5 owns
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Feb 18, 2016 20:32
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Mr Dog posted:You can still compile Gtk2 code written ten years ago and have it work today jfc what is this straw man you people are savagely demolishing you should still be able to run executables built 10 years ago against Gtk2, against Gtk3, as long as you haven't changed architectures that you can't just demonstrates that Gtk is a clown show quote:No, it really isn't. It's an incompatible new revision of the toolkit that's co-installable with the previous version. That's what a bump in the major version number means, it's a change in ~*platform direction*~ in the same sense. that's only what a bump in major version numbers means in the delusional fantasies of Gtk developers here in the real world, a major version number change means major new features you don't get to break binary compatibility you do know that Apple has actually continued to improve Carbon despite it being deprecated, right? so Carbon apps can do things like run in HiDPI, and still work on the latest OS X releases a Carbon app compiled for the first GM release of OS X 10.4 for Intel still runs today on the latest release of OS X 10.11, it doesn't even need to be rebuilt the fact that this doesn't work for Gtk apps makes Gtk terrible
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Feb 18, 2016 22:03
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lol http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2994 quote:I’m sorry I have to come with bad news. Linux mint + cinnamon being target by hackers! Truly 2016 is the year of linux on the desktop!
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Feb 21, 2016 20:10
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trying to get my printer working with a raspberry pi, after 3 hours it still doesn't work, only drivers that exist are x86 or x64, no arm support it looks like but other people have gotten it working and i have no idea why what they did worked but me doing exactly that does not ~*linux*~
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Feb 21, 2016 21:42
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b0red posted:lol TBF, anybody who uses Linux Mint should be targeted by hackers.
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Feb 21, 2016 21:45
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ratbert90 posted:TBF, anybody who uses Linux Mint should be targeted by hackers.  lunix mint started out as a good idea and gave us cinnamon (a heroic attempt at a good linux desktop that fell only slightly instead of very short), then lunix rot (like winrot except systemic and put in by dumb devs pre-install) set in
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Feb 21, 2016 21:59
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Apocadall posted:trying to get my printer working with a raspberry pi, after 3 hours it still doesn't work, only drivers that exist are x86 or x64, no arm support it looks like but other people have gotten it working and i have no idea why what they did worked but me doing exactly that does not well you are using arm who the hell uses arm on anything except a phone
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Feb 21, 2016 21:59
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Celexi posted:well you are using arm who the hell uses arm on anything except a phone i dunno he might be a
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Feb 21, 2016 22:00
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Celexi posted:well you are using arm who the hell uses arm on anything except a phone
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Feb 21, 2016 22:00
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theultimo posted:arm chomebooks lol there's a reason i3 chomebooks exist now
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Feb 21, 2016 22:03
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