|
Random Encounter posted:My co-op partner wanted to try Bob's mods during our current map. I was aware that it was greg tech levels of busy work, but the partner insisted. So this is my attempt at mapping out how to get to blue science, with some added help from Yuoki to avoid the oil chain and the fact that Bob changes the battery recipe. I got roped into trying Bob's modpack on similar grounds. Wood being required for a shitload of fab recipes and there being no renewable, automated, or even particularly faster/better method of harvesting wood was the bit I hated enough to call it GregTech and forget it.
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2016 20:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 00:53 |
|
|
You can synthesize synthetic wood from oil.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2016 20:02
|
|
|
Ciaphas posted:I have elected to start a new map because oh my god sudden bodies of water offscreen are assholes my base is ruined You can also (in addition to the chap who suggested low terrain segmentation) set it to water only in the start area. That means of course that all your steam and oil work will need to be done near the start area but it does guarantee nice open areas.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2016 20:12
|
|
|
Ratzap posted:You can also (in addition to the chap who suggested low terrain segmentation) set it to water only in the start area. That means of course that all your steam and oil work will need to be done near the start area but it does guarantee nice open areas. This is the only way to play in my book, other wise bodies of water will just continually ruin your factory layouts.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2016 20:23
|
|
|
LordSaturn posted:Mixed inputs are still a bad idea, because at some point you're going to need green arms to sort them back out before use, and green arm bandwidth is expensive compared to belt bandwidth. Or else you're dumping the poo poo in a provider chest and making your drones sort it, and drone bandwidth is REALLY expensive. Another possible bad outcome is: "Why has my copper plate output stopped? My furnaces are all running... oh look, there's a flood of iron ore and no new copper ore is getting to the furnaces." One task per building, people. It works better. Except when you make a toy single-smelter steel plant that uses smart inserters to make a single electric furnace create steel and iron.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2016 20:43
|
|
|
Logistics is awesome my base went from being a belt hell to a beehive.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2016 20:50
|
|
|
Ratzap posted:You can also (in addition to the chap who suggested low terrain segmentation) set it to water only in the start area. That means of course that all your steam and oil work will need to be done near the start area but it does guarantee nice open areas. I started a new map with both of these options, yeah. So far so much better, except I have to walk a long way to chop wood for more electric poles. How far in do I have to go before I can get different poles and stop using wood entirely?
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2016 20:51
|
|
|
Now that I'm at work and thinking about factorio, new question. Say I have a four belt iron plate bus; on one side a splitter takes half the plates off for iron gears, leaving that belt half empty (assuming there's no input backlog). (Or, more likely, dedicate that belt on the bus entirely to gears, because god drat do I need a lot of gears.) How do I then re-balance the bus after that point? Best I can figure is to leave the bus unbalanced until I have another factory that needs plates, take those from the belt on the opposite side, then put two splitters inline on the bus to "rob" the middle two lanes.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2016 20:54
|
|
|
Ciaphas posted:Now that I'm at work and thinking about factorio, new question. Say I have a four belt iron plate bus; on one side a splitter takes half the plates off for iron gears, leaving that belt half empty (assuming there's no input backlog). (Or, more likely, dedicate that belt on the bus entirely to gears, because god drat do I need a lot of gears.) How do I then re-balance the bus after that point? Feed both belts into a splitter.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2016 20:58
|
|
|
Dammit guys, stop making Factorio seem so appealing right now. I'm supposed to be starting up a new Kerbal Space Program campaign.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2016 21:06
|
|
|
Ciaphas posted:I started a new map with both of these options, yeah. So far so much better, except I have to walk a long way to chop wood for more electric poles. How far in do I have to go before I can get different poles and stop using wood entirely? You need to research Steel then Electric energy distribution for better poles. If you look back a page or two, someone posted a picture of a balancer. I'll dig it out and link to it. Edit: This one Ratzap fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Mar 2, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2016 21:27
|
|
|
FYI there's an online ratio planning tool here: http://factorio-production-planner.appspot.com/ edit: and here: http://factorio.rotol.me/pack/base-f11/factoratio/ Foehammer fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Mar 2, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2016 21:32
|
|
|
In order to improve efficiency I started writing numbers down! A single assembly machine making cogs can supply exactly 10 assembly machines making red science. 3 copper wire can supply 2 green circuits and because it takes 0.5 time to process, you need to use 3 blue arms to keep up with the demand!  I had to add a kink to the belt on the copper wire output because 1 blue arm will place every 2nd tile, so 2 blue arms will place every single tile, meaning the 3rd blue arm has no where to place it's copper wire.  Slickdrac posted:Check out the Landfill mod, lets you use stone to create water erasing chunks of land. I can't get that to work with the steam version.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2016 21:40
|
|
|
Belting wires suuuuucks, better to move them directly from wire assemblers into circuit assemblers, and take at least 1 inserter stack size research.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2016 21:43
|
|
|
Try something like this: it's not direct insertion of copper, but a railcar in-between aids balancing of wire input to the chip assemblers; just make sure it's only got one inventory slot active.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2016 21:56
|
|
|
re: biters and getting artifacts: The trick is to not immediately turtle up. Basic biter nests can be dealt with using only an SMG loaded with basic clips, a regular-rear end shotgun, and grenades. The issue is that they evolve much faster if they're in pollution so if you ignore them from the start of the game then by the time you actually get to needing purple science they'll have evolved to tier 3/4 and have poo poo you need the high-end poo poo to deal with, which puts you into a catch-22 situation of needing to kill them to get purple science to research the things that allow you to kill them - or turret creeping, which is boring. Use grenades to kill the initial rush and any worms; use the SMG to kill the individual spawns once you've deal with the initial rush, and use the shotgun to kill the nests. What you should be doing is getting military techs as the first thing you get each time you get a new science pack. Once you have the above things (and armor) then open up your map, press alt to turn on the pollution overlay, and kill every biter nest in or near your pollution cloud. As you expand and tech keep checking your map every now and then for new nests spawning/the cloud expanding into new nests and kill them. If you do this then you'll easily have enough artifacts to get cool poo poo like power armor, armor-piercing autoshotguns, and the high end combat drones, and having those things lets you steamroll even the biggest biter nests. If you do all this, then the biggest threat by the mid-late game will actually be biter nests across oceans; pollution is partially mitigated by forests and land tiles and so on so it tends to get constrained by terrain but water has absolutely no impact on it; your pollution cloud will probably get 2-3 times further away over ocean than it will over land. Your first waves of big/huge biters will probably come along the coast from such nests. One last tip: Sometimes you'll run into an unevolved nest that has a big worm guarding it, which is nearly impossible to kill early on. You can kill big worms with ~3 poison capsules. Foehammer posted:FYI there's an online ratio planning tool here: http://factorio-production-planner.appspot.com/ The only ratio I bother remembering is the one for power plants - 1 pump, 14 boilers, 10 steam power plants.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2016 22:02
|
|
|
Ciaphas posted:Now that I'm at work and thinking about factorio, new question. Say I have a four belt iron plate bus; on one side a splitter takes half the plates off for iron gears, leaving that belt half empty (assuming there's no input backlog). (Or, more likely, dedicate that belt on the bus entirely to gears, because god drat do I need a lot of gears.) How do I then re-balance the bus after that point? What you're working with here is what I'd term a "naive bus". A bus system that's designed without any specific knowledge of what it's going to feed. Which makes them incredibly flexible, and a great system to center your entire base around, all the way up to launching a rocket. With a naive bus, there's a couple ways you can use to keep the belts balanced. The first is to take products from the belts in a balanced way, using a splitter setup like one of the following:  This inherently keeps the belts balanced, and if you make sure to take from both lanes equally, the lanes will also stay balanced. The other way is to use a much smaller splitter setup (eg. a single splitter on the leftmost belt) to take a belt of products, and every so often throw onto the bus a balancer like the following:  The one on the left is very compact, but has a bias to it (items coming in on the left or right half of the bus will more likely than not leave on the same half), while the one on the right is count-perfect, but bulky. What I've done lately is use the first setup, leaving lots of space between the different products on the bus for splitter shenanigans, and a single count-perfect balancer at the very start of the bus. But a third method is to make the bus a little less naive, which is something I think I'll do for my gear and circuit builds next time I start a new base. What I mean is you'd take a number of belts from the bus, and redirect them fully into the gear or circuit factory. So your 4 belts of iron plates would be cut down to 2, but with the gear factory operating you would've just had 2 belts worth spread over 4 belts, so you're kind of better off anyways. This method becomes even more desirable when you start working with ratios, because you can measure input and output in terms of how many fully loaded belts and completely eliminate bottlenecks with little effort. Telarra fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Mar 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2016 22:05
|
|
|
Ak Gara posted:In order to improve efficiency I started writing numbers down! Try this setup from the last page. Once you have stack size research, the arms will move more than one wire at a time from the wire fab to circuits and can keep up. LordSaturn posted:The usual for circuit fab is three wire plants feeding two circuit plants.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2016 22:06
|
|
|
President Ark posted:The only ratio I bother remembering is the one for power plants - 1 pump, 14 boilers, 10 steam power plants. Also 25 Solar Panels / 21 Accumulators: https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5594 
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2016 22:31
|
|
|
Some circuit designs for robotic network, Im currently working on doing belts-only redesing for rocket assembly when I clear enought space, but these have been enought for this 90 hour playtrough:   1200% speed rockets, chests store 12 rockets as parts while im screwing around elsewhere, and I can pop em in span of 5 minutes (25 secs per construction, plus the actual preparing / launching animation), chests take hour or two to fill:  30 Smelters (with 2x speed 3) can satisfy 1 belt, I've found:  And blueprint for steel assembly, eats 4 fully satisfied ore belts and spits out 2 steel ones (with 2x speed 3, naturally)  Foehammer posted:Also 25 Solar Panels / 21 Accumulators: https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5594 Yep, thats what I've been using, current mini goal is to make world concrete jungle filled with design here and concrete (currently at 300 GJ accumalator capacity):  
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2016 23:04
|
|
|
At first sight I thought there'd be no way you could keep such a long line of wire factories in a row without running out of copper plates, but hah, gently caress me, I never would've thought of augmenting my resource belts with an additional parallel belt and then splitting it onto the other belt. Those kind of solutions are exactly what I love about Factorio. Edit: It's weird, I do that all the time with a bus, but I never thought of doing it within a production line. How do you supply all of that with enough oil? I already had trouble just supporting one rocket factory while scrambling for every tiny bit of oil I could locate. Edit: ↓ Ah. I did the speed modules thing, but because I was lacking electricity at the time I got efficiency in my refineries. Fleve fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Mar 2, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2016 23:19
|
|
|
Speed modules in the pumpjacks and productivity modules in the refineries. Since oil wells never run dry, they just reach 0.1/sec, a speed module will increase how much oil the pumpjack outputs. The productivity modules in the refinery ensure that you squeeze everything you can out of each drop of crude.
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2016 23:34
|
|
|
Moddington posted:What you're working with here is what I'd term a "naive bus". A bus system that's designed without any specific knowledge of what it's going to feed. Which makes them incredibly flexible, and a great system to center your entire base around, all the way up to launching a rocket. Bookmarking the hell out of this post, too. Thanks! Also that factoratio webapp is insanely cool and I wish I'd thought of making something like it 
|
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2016 23:45
|
|
|
Ciaphas posted:Bookmarking the hell out of this post, too. Thanks! Ack, I just noticed I completely butchered the designs in the first pic, and the center belts are completely unused. I'll fix it once I get home and have access to my savefiles. e: Turns out I botched it because I'm not even using any 4-wide bus lines on my current save. Updated the post with a 4-wide and a 2-wide. Telarra fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Mar 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 2, 2016 23:58
|
|
|
Thanks for the fixes. New question, how do you work out how many assemblers of each science pack you need to support a given number of labs? Empirically? For that matter, how many labs do you all run with? Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Mar 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2016 01:53
|
|
|
It's difficult to say, because the amount of science output you need really varies on what you're researching. Late-game research usually requires 1 *of each science pack* consumed per 30 - 60 seconds. All of the science factory designs I see aim for ~1 of each science per second, so you could conceivably support 30-60 labs. I usually only have ~12 to 20 labs though, because I have yet to get blue science running optimally.
Solumin fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Mar 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2016 02:03
|
|
|
I run 16 labs, fed by 5 red 6 green 12 blue assemblers (because they take 5, 6 and 12 seconds to build, respectively). It chokes a little on the rail and automobilism researches because they eat 2 red each, but my belts are usually long enough for it to not matter.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2016 02:41
|
|
|
I can probably support more labs than I have right now, then. Problem being I'm not quite sure what to improve next, now that I'm back more or less where I was before I restarted. I think I need to improve my iron supply followed by my iron gear pipeline. Time for a break for a few minutes, though.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2016 02:58
|
|
|
Michaellaneous posted:It's the same reasoning which makes people create insanely hard games because they want to be like Dark Souls, and they don't realize that there is a lot of other things in play. Bob's Mods, and other large complexity increasing mods, exist for those of us with 1k+ hours in the game - eventually, it just becomes too easy, and not enough of a challenge.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2016 03:17
|
|
|
The full set of Bobs is just too much for my taste, maybe in another 1000 hours I'll be there but not yet. I hope the treefarm guy keeps going, that was a promising mod - it added enough to be interesting without going ape. The stock game could do with things like boiler/mining upgrades from research too. The sandbox I was putting together hit a snag too, I got robot production automated finally but ran out of space between blobs of water. Time to run around and find the biggest empty space nearby and start another line.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2016 03:27
|
|
|
I don't really like most of the "make production chains more complex" mods because in practice all they really do is get rid of the varied and interesting ways to build factories, and instead turn it into "figure out the most efficient way to build logistic robots". It's really boring. I'd be all over something that, rather than going all-in on complexity, just bumped up the complexity moderately, but pushed back the "use logistic robots for everything instead of transport belt" phase right back to the endgame victory lap.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2016 03:35
|
|
|
Jabor posted:I don't really like most of the "make production chains more complex" mods because in practice all they really do is get rid of the varied and interesting ways to build factories, and instead turn it into "figure out the most efficient way to build logistic robots". It's really boring. Logistics bots are massively inefficient compared to a proper facility-based setup in Bob's Mods. Disable god modules and stop relying on the crutch of logistics bots and your factories will get so much better.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2016 03:51
|
|
|
Oh lord, time to get into oil processing for plastics. This is uncharted territory for me. Wonder how many ways I can gently caress this up (ed) Though at least I'm making enough research that I'm just kind of blindly clicking my way through the stuff that needs red and green, so that's good I guess??? Ciaphas fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Mar 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2016 03:53
|
|
|
Kenlon posted:Logistics bots are massively inefficient compared to a proper facility-based setup in Bob's Mods. Disable god modules and stop relying on the crutch of logistics bots and your factories will get so much better. Ah yes, Dred built those things in a game we played. God modules are pretty much cheating, the fact they're so hard to make is irrelevant - you just built a bloody great factory that makes things for you. He stuck them all through the oil pumps and it was just silly. People have made mod packs of course too, you want to wade through ludicrous amounts of stuff? Try something like this.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2016 04:20
|
|
|
I started playing Factorio about 10 months ago with 11.22, and I explored most of ShadowMegaModPack that had among other things, Dytech, Bob's mods, and Yuoki industries. Yeah, it's a bit on the gregtech level, but I did like the added 'realism', since Dytech / Bob's mods seemed to explore what you would need to actually make this stuff in real life. I actually progressed pretty far in it, too. Not sure if I want to do that again, though, since it rather burned me out on Factorio and it's difficult to pick it up again. Here's a link to Shadow's updated mega mod pack which seems to have most of the same mods and some new ones. Edit: and here's an image from my post in June last year of the insane machine hodgepodge I had going on.  I am astonished at the number of posts recently. It looks like quite a few goons started playing it since the Steam release. I have noticed one weird interaction with the water generation. When it's 'only starting area', it generates this weird patchwork of desert and grassland with just dead trees everywhere, but on any other setting you get true deserts or dense forests and grasslands. I only tried about 6 iterations of each but it's consistent. Ambaire fucked around with this message at 04:41 on Mar 3, 2016 |
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2016 04:33
|
|
|
So before I hop headlong back into setting up clusterfuck factories, I should ask: Would it be wise to have separate- maybe distanced Processing and Manufacturing Bases? Because as it is, getting both within close proximity seems to gently caress me up in trying to keep organized.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2016 04:37
|
|
|
Ciaphas posted:I can probably support more labs than I have right now, then. Problem being I'm not quite sure what to improve next, now that I'm back more or less where I was before I restarted. I think I need to improve my iron supply followed by my iron gear pipeline. I just wanted to congratulate you on building some really snazzy looking designs after only some minimal suggestions. Anyone looking at this game and thinking "I'll never be able to build advanced stuff" should look and see how quickly you've been able to get some awesome looking stuff. A day or two from now you're gonna want to scrap it all and make something even more advanced!
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2016 04:39
|
|
|
aww thanks  this game is a disease send help I'm hosed for copper now, though, so time to get into trains and embrace my inner OpenTTD nerd. I expect this to end in horrid disaster.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2016 05:06
|
|
|
Ambaire posted:I started playing Factorio about 10 months ago with 11.22, and I explored most of ShadowMegaModPack that had among other things, Dytech, Bob's mods, and Yuoki industries. Yeah, it's a bit on the gregtech level, but I did like the added 'realism', since Dytech / Bob's mods seemed to explore what you would need to actually make this stuff in real life. I actually progressed pretty far in it, too. Not sure if I want to do that again, though, since it rather burned me out on Factorio and it's difficult to pick it up again. Here's a link to Shadow's updated mega mod pack which seems to have most of the same mods and some new ones. Weirdly enough, the example I linked is the shadow mega pack - AKA kitchen sink pack. The worst part is it has no full list of which mods he has in it and what they do. No documentation so you'd have to look in the mods folder then refer to the forum posts for each mod just to find out WTF is in it, let alone figure out how it works. Dr. Arbitrary posted:I just wanted to congratulate you on building some really snazzy looking designs after only some minimal suggestions. Quite. He's leaving plenty of space which is good and that's a decent bus width though missing steel. I often find myself zooming out and thinking "I must be mad, I sat here and placed every single thing I can see".
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2016 05:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 00:53 |
|
|
Ciaphas posted:aww thanks Not so fast sunshine... for trains you must first pass Oil 101, then the Joy of steel works and engines for every man.
|
|
#
?
Mar 3, 2016 05:10
|
|