[MAFIA] XCOM: A Nailbiter Setup

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > The Game Room > [MAFIA] XCOM: A Nailbiter Setup

Lumpen: Apr 2, 2004; I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.; Plaster Town Cop

JakeP posted:

Its not playing Wifom its making a reasonable statement based on what the SK wouldn't do. SK needs to be the last player alive. Claiming a power role puts them in obvious danger the second that the player with that role flips

Yes but KK does not seem to be a rational actor and does not seem to have put mich thought into the setup. Maybe he really is the Jailer but his play doesn't make sense from that perspectve either.

# ? Mar 7, 2016 17:34

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# ? Apr 27, 2024 23:34

Kashuno: Oct 9, 2012; Where the hell is my SWORD?; Grimey Drawer

Khris Kruel posted:

fight the system bro. It'll turn out well for you

I will die on this hill and give no fucks.

# ? Mar 7, 2016 17:38

King Burgundy: Sep 17, 2003; I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

Kashuno posted:

I'm not doing this stupid as gently caress mass claim

Kash. You were tired/burnt out on Mafia and needed a break. What is it going to hurt to try something new and different?

# ? Mar 7, 2016 17:39

JakeP: Apr 27, 2003; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS; Lipstick Apathy

Lumpen posted:

Yes but KK does not seem to be a rational actor and does not seem to have put mich thought into the setup. Maybe he really is the Jailer but his play doesn't make sense from that perspectve either.

Sure I can see that, but at this point the best thing to do regarding him is let him be until someone else flips jailer

# ? Mar 7, 2016 17:39

King Burgundy: Sep 17, 2003; I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

Like, either you'll be proven right or you'll be proven wrong. There will be no middle ground for discussion. It's science! :science:

# ? Mar 7, 2016 17:40

Jon Irenicus: Apr 23, 2008; YO ASSHOLE

Hah so much for a newbie friendly game with all this theory-crafting and metagaming. I'm phone posting on my lunch break, give me a while to read and I'll weight in with my thoughts after work.

# ? Mar 7, 2016 17:40

Khris Kruel: Nov 5, 2003; Ask me about being a SJW in EE and working to make anyone who disagrees with me a villain and gets no opportunity to defend themselves at all because my army or sycophants I buy off with pixels follows me blindly.

Lumpen posted:

Yes but KK does not seem to be a rational actor and does not seem to have put mich thought into the setup. Maybe he really is the Jailer but his play doesn't make sense from that perspectve either.

WIFOM is scummy Lumpen, please don't engage in it

# ? Mar 7, 2016 17:41

Khris Kruel: Nov 5, 2003; Ask me about being a SJW in EE and working to make anyone who disagrees with me a villain and gets no opportunity to defend themselves at all because my army or sycophants I buy off with pixels follows me blindly.

Jon Irenicus posted:

Hah so much for a newbie friendly game with all this theory-crafting and metagaming. I'm phone posting on my lunch break, give me a while to read and I'll weight in with my thoughts after work.

it's ok, they're just retarded. This isn't an actual mafia game

# ? Mar 7, 2016 17:42

JakeP: Apr 27, 2003; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS; Lipstick Apathy

Why are you being so hostile and unreasonable?

# ? Mar 7, 2016 17:43

JakeP: Apr 27, 2003; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS; Lipstick Apathy

Jon Irenicus posted:

Hah so much for a newbie friendly game with all this theory-crafting and metagaming. I'm phone posting on my lunch break, give me a while to read and I'll weight in with my thoughts after work.

Its newbie friendly in that it is an open setup so you can know going in what roles to expect rather. As far as open setups go it is a bit more complicated than say 6 van town 1 cop, 2 mafia. Any of the theory crafting in the game is surrounding whether or not to mass claim right off the bat rather than 2 days in

# ? Mar 7, 2016 17:46

Lumpen: Apr 2, 2004; I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.; Plaster Town Cop

kordansk posted:

Uh, not really. I am a bit confused. First you want a massclaim, and I understood what your logic behind it was, though I don't think you really considered how it would be harmful to town. But it seems like you are just willing to believe the jailor claim, even without questioning it. Rage answering is a null read for the most part. Lastly, why would you ask someone to breadcrumb more information. That is probably even worse than just claiming.

##vote lumpen

Yes you do indeed seem quite confused. If KK is lying, then someone else is the real Jailer (maybe even me!) and I am saying that for them to coubterclaim KK would not be wise in my opinion. Breadcrumbs are a good idea for winning a counterclaim battle later in the game, and (later) for Powers embedding results in hopes they can be usefully found and decoded for info after the breadcrumber dies and flips.

I want a massclaim only because I designed this setup and I've seen it run through twice and I think it can't be broken by a massclaim but I wanted to prove it. Its an experiment. I think the setup is balanced to tolerate a D1 massclaim, but still if not for the experiment I think it is slightly more advantageous to massclaim later (usually around D3), depending on the state of the game. I explained how it is probably just as beneficial to Town as it is potentially harmful.

If KK is really the Jailer that would be a harmful claim for Town, I think. Still not disastrous, because this setup can tolerate dumb crazy ballsy things and wills still come down to a dramatic nail-biting conclusion!

If there are less than 6 claims of Powers today, we should take any Power claimers off the table for lynch today. If we get 10 or 11 claims of Powers, then that would trigger a fullclaim and we'd start thunderdoming the paired counterclaimants.

# ? Mar 7, 2016 17:47

Kashuno: Oct 9, 2012; Where the hell is my SWORD?; Grimey Drawer

Jon Irenicus posted:

Hah so much for a newbie friendly game with all this theory-crafting and metagaming. I'm phone posting on my lunch break, give me a while to read and I'll weight in with my thoughts after work.

I don't like this at all. Theory talk is something that is easiest to get involved in when you're new because it doesn't require strict game state analysis just your opinions on a situation.

We aren't meta-talking right now so whatever at that.

King Burgundy posted:

Kash. You were tired/burnt out on Mafia and needed a break. What is it going to hurt to try something new and different?

No.

# ? Mar 7, 2016 17:48

Lumpen: Apr 2, 2004; I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.; Plaster Town Cop

JakeP posted:

Sure I can see that, but at this point the best thing to do regarding him is let him be until someone else flips jailer

Agreed.

# ? Mar 7, 2016 17:49

Lumpen: Apr 2, 2004; I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.; Plaster Town Cop

Haha this setup can even gracefully and excitingly handle a hosed up partial massclaim D1 with a mix of soft and hard claiming.

It is unbreakable!

# ? Mar 7, 2016 17:52

King Burgundy: Sep 17, 2003; I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

Lumpen posted:

Haha this setup can even gracefully and excitingly handle a hosed up partial massclaim D1 with a mix of soft and hard claiming.

It is unbreakable!

If we don't get the mass claim to happen, can you start a new game of "mass claim mafia" after this one to settle this once and for all? I really don't understand people's objection to testing this, but maybe if we went the extra step of naming the game that then people will be more cooperative.

# ? Mar 7, 2016 17:57

JakeP: Apr 27, 2003; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS; Lipstick Apathy

King Burgundy posted:

If we don't get the mass claim to happen, can you start a new game of "mass claim mafia" after this one to settle this once and for all? I really don't understand people's objection to testing this, but maybe if we went the extra step of naming the game that then people will be more cooperative.

presign khris kruel

# ? Mar 7, 2016 17:59

Khris Kruel: Nov 5, 2003; Ask me about being a SJW in EE and working to make anyone who disagrees with me a villain and gets no opportunity to defend themselves at all because my army or sycophants I buy off with pixels follows me blindly.

King Burgundy posted:

If we don't get the mass claim to happen, can you start a new game of "mass claim mafia" after this one to settle this once and for all? I really don't understand people's objection to testing this, but maybe if we went the extra step of naming the game that then people will be more cooperative.

because mass role claims aren't fun. My time is precious and if you guys want to waste a fun setup do it on your own time.

In closed setups roles have little effect on.game play anyways and you all really need to learn how to play as vanilla townie. Using power roles as a crutch is just a sign of a horrible player

# ? Mar 7, 2016 18:22

Khris Kruel: Nov 5, 2003; Ask me about being a SJW in EE and working to make anyone who disagrees with me a villain and gets no opportunity to defend themselves at all because my army or sycophants I buy off with pixels follows me blindly.

talking about open set ups is just a way for scum to disguise their posts and pretend they're contributing. Mass role claims on day 1 are never pro town

# ? Mar 7, 2016 18:24

Kashuno: Oct 9, 2012; Where the hell is my SWORD?; Grimey Drawer

yes.

# ? Mar 7, 2016 18:29

Lumpen: Apr 2, 2004; I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.; Plaster Town Cop

Khris Kruel posted:

because mass role claims aren't fun. My time is precious and if you guys want to waste a fun setup do it on your own time.

In closed setups roles have little effect on.game play anyways and you all really need to learn how to play as vanilla townie. Using power roles as a crutch is just a sign of a horrible player

Khris Kruel posted:

talking about open set ups is just a way for scum to disguise their posts and pretend they're contributing. Mass role claims on day 1 are never pro town

You keep talking with an authoritative attitude when you clearly are lacking the context to understand what you're opining about.

This setup is different. Maybe you're being disingenuous as a gambit, I'll generously keep that in mind.

# ? Mar 7, 2016 18:32

Khris Kruel: Nov 5, 2003; Ask me about being a SJW in EE and working to make anyone who disagrees with me a villain and gets no opportunity to defend themselves at all because my army or sycophants I buy off with pixels follows me blindly.

so I've decided lumped needs my protection tonight. He's the only claimed power role besides myself and I feel like he will be the target tonight, so I'm going to keep him safe

# ? Mar 7, 2016 18:33

Lumpen: Apr 2, 2004; I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.; Plaster Town Cop

Kashuno posted:

yes.

You, on the other hand, have no excuse. You've played the setup and should know better by now, especially after what you did in the last game.

# ? Mar 7, 2016 18:33

Kashuno: Oct 9, 2012; Where the hell is my SWORD?; Grimey Drawer

Lumpen posted:

You, on the other hand, have no excuse. You've played the setup and should know better by now, especially after what you did in the last game.

I know I dislike the mass claim idea, and won't be a part of it.

# ? Mar 7, 2016 18:35

JakeP: Apr 27, 2003; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS; Lipstick Apathy

Khris Kruel posted:

so I've decided lumped needs my protection tonight. He's the only claimed power role besides myself and I feel like he will be the target tonight, so I'm going to keep him safe

thanks for letting us know!

# ? Mar 7, 2016 18:36

JakeP: Apr 27, 2003; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS; Lipstick Apathy

I wouldn't have a problem with Kash not wanting to mass claim really, my issue with him is he is using it as an excuse to vote for a claimed power role

# ? Mar 7, 2016 18:37

King Burgundy: Sep 17, 2003; I am the Burgundy King,
I can do anything!

JakeP posted:

I wouldn't have a problem with Kash not wanting to mass claim really, my issue with him is he is using it as an excuse to vote for a claimed power role

True and after we had a discussion last game about how dumb that was.

##vote Kashuno

# ? Mar 7, 2016 18:44

Kashuno: Oct 9, 2012; Where the hell is my SWORD?; Grimey Drawer

yeah I'm okay dying on this rock you dumbos.

# ? Mar 7, 2016 18:46

JakeP: Apr 27, 2003; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS; Lipstick Apathy

Kashuno posted:

yeah I'm okay dying on this rock you dumbos.

If you are town that is a pretty dumb stance to take

# ? Mar 7, 2016 18:49

JakeP: Apr 27, 2003; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS; Lipstick Apathy

one could even say it is dumboesque

# ? Mar 7, 2016 18:49

Kashuno: Oct 9, 2012; Where the hell is my SWORD?; Grimey Drawer

if I'm scum it's even more idiotic.

# ? Mar 7, 2016 18:52

JakeP: Apr 27, 2003; by Jeffrey of YOSPOS; Lipstick Apathy

Kashuno posted:

if I'm scum it's even more idiotic.

If you are being town and this is a genuine reaction it is stupid, and accomplishes nothing. If you are scum your reaction could be used to make the post you just did (pretend that what you are doing is more town than scum), or could be a way to fake a genuine stubbornness regarding the mass claim. It feels a lot more scummy than town to me really

# ? Mar 7, 2016 18:57

Khris Kruel: Nov 5, 2003; Ask me about being a SJW in EE and working to make anyone who disagrees with me a villain and gets no opportunity to defend themselves at all because my army or sycophants I buy off with pixels follows me blindly.

JakeP posted:

If you are being town and this is a genuine reaction it is stupid, and accomplishes nothing. If you are scum your reaction could be used to make the post you just did (pretend that what you are doing is more town than scum), or could be a way to fake a genuine stubbornness regarding the mass claim. It feels a lot more scummy than town to me really

you're trying to rationalize a neutral stance into something scummy.

If he's the only holdout we will easily know if he's a backup or power role. Not claiming isn't scummy and stop trying to create an easy lynch that will give us no information.

# ? Mar 7, 2016 19:00

Lumpen: Apr 2, 2004; I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.; Plaster Town Cop

Khris Kruel posted:

you're trying to rationalize a neutral stance into something scummy.

If he's the only holdout we will easily know if he's a backup or power role. Not claiming isn't scummy and stop trying to create an easy lynch that will give us no information.

It is not his refusal to participate in a massclaim, it is that he is voting a softclaimed Power, after being party to the whole discussion last game. I find it hard to believe that his supposed suspicion of me could possibly be sincere, given the context, timing, and manner of my claiming.

# ? Mar 7, 2016 19:09

Kashuno: Oct 9, 2012; Where the hell is my SWORD?; Grimey Drawer

I like how you guys are homing in on me voting for a claimed power role when we have DAYS left until deadline and he's in no threat of being immediately gently caress off with your fake concern.

# ? Mar 7, 2016 19:10

Lumpen: Apr 2, 2004; I'd been happy, and I was happy still. For all to be accomplished,
for me to feel less lonely,
all that remained to hope
was that on the day of my execution
there should be a huge crowd of spectators and that they should
greet me with howls of execration.; Plaster Town Cop

Kashuno posted:

I like how you guys are homing in on me voting for a claimed power role when we have DAYS left until deadline and he's in no threat of being immediately gently caress off with your fake concern.

So you are voting for someone you think is Town and that's okay, and you think it's wrong to criticize your vote because you're saying that it's not going anywhere? Or your vote is supposed to be some kind of symbolic gesture that isn't related to Scumhunting?

What is the story exactly? You are playing super Scummy and I can't see a good explanation for that besides concluding that you're likely Scum.

# ? Mar 7, 2016 19:41

Kashuno: Oct 9, 2012; Where the hell is my SWORD?; Grimey Drawer

I think you are scum, Lumpen. We have days to deadline, and it's not an immediate threat to your life that my vote needs an immediate removal. I am confident in my vote, and happy to leave it where it is. The fact people are somehow calling it scummy when you are in no serious threat is silly to me.

# ? Mar 7, 2016 19:51