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There is no good logic in loving mass claiming because it assumes the scum team won't coordinate at all, and also that they are stupider than the town players.
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Mar 7, 2016 21:31
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Kashuno posted:glad your poo poo comeback to actual logic is consistent to your poo poo logic in agreeing with a mass claim. you dont possess enough logic to solve a freaking sudoku puzzle
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Mar 7, 2016 21:31
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it doesnt matter if they coordinate aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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Mar 7, 2016 21:31
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JakeP posted:I mean it will avoid mislyncing a power role. If the power roles claim and are unCCed we have a far shorter list of people who could potentially be scum, and the worst case is we lynch a town backup rather than a power role. If there are conflicting claims we ignore them for now, and lynch a backup, unless there are so many conflicting claims so that it is known that all the scum are CCing town power roles (but that won't happen). We will avoid lynching a power role. If 3/4 scum claim power roles then..what? We hunt backups until we decide to test counterclaims?
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Mar 7, 2016 21:32
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Kashuno posted:how will it avoid a mislynch exactly? If we have 6/7 claimed power roles, what did you gain from this? Are we going to all out our actual power role afterwards? What if you have conflicting claims there? What if all the scum claim backup, and we gain literally nothing while scum gains the entire game set up? You are acting like a dunce, or a Scum.
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Mar 7, 2016 21:32
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blackcross posted:So what's the goal? Lynch backup so we don't lose a power role and then see who gets NK'ed? And then regain whatever the power role was? You've limited your potential scum list. In terms of power roles, this helps everyone pretty equally on each faction, but in terms of the mafia portion of the game, depending on claims, you may have 5 confirmed towns who you will have no chance of voting out mistakenly and who you know are telling you the truth about their opinions on other players. Even though we've outted those power role players and they are now targets, we won't lose their role from the game even if they are killed and if they aren't killed we've helped them better target their abilities.
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Mar 7, 2016 21:33
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Kashuno posted:We will avoid lynching a power role. If 3/4 scum claim power roles then..what? We hunt backups until we decide to test counterclaims? 
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Mar 7, 2016 21:33
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Kashuno posted:We will avoid lynching a power role. If 3/4 scum claim power roles then..what? We hunt backups until we decide to test counterclaims? no we test counterclaims immediately
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Mar 7, 2016 21:34
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Kashuno posted:We will avoid lynching a power role. If 3/4 scum claim power roles then..what? We hunt backups until we decide to test counterclaims? That won't happen, and if it does it gives the town a huge advantage. It would force the scum to not kill town power roles or risk exposing themselves. At that point the town backup that inherits the role could easily claim and be confirmed town.
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Mar 7, 2016 21:38
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Assume all town are honest. SK claims power, scum all claim VB.
Here is just one scenario displaying why it's bad  Lumpen posted:I think that you are being disingenuous, but trust me, you have not thought more about this setup than I have. We are testing the massclaim hypothesis this time. It does not break the game, it does not strongly benefit any side. If all Townies truthfully softclaim, and the Scum all claim Backup, things are neutral. If any Scum claim Powers, Town benefits. The SK may benefit from falsely softclaiming Power, in this scenario because of the specifics of how roles interact with the SK. If they all claim backup, town now has lost all their power roles. They will be outed, and the non-vital power roles can easily be counterclaimed by scum moving forward and loving play with more knowledge than town. I don't get why you guys can't figure it out. We aren't going to win this by just mass-claiming. loving play mafia.
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Mar 7, 2016 21:39
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Kashuno posted:Assume all town are honest. No. If this happens we lynch a claimed backup and have like a 50% chance to hit scum
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Mar 7, 2016 21:39
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I sincerely hope town loses this loving game with how dumb they are.
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Mar 7, 2016 21:39
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you are being intentionally obtuse and its obvious as gently caress
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Mar 7, 2016 21:40
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I'm done arguing this point. It's stupid
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Mar 7, 2016 21:40
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then convince everyone else to loving vote me and get me out of this stupid poo poo.
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Mar 7, 2016 21:41
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Kashuno posted:I'm done arguing this point. It's stupid Good because you are making yourself look like a moron
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Mar 7, 2016 21:41
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poo poo could get weird once people start inheriting
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Mar 7, 2016 21:56
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I'm going to inherit Kash's model train set
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Mar 7, 2016 21:57
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Birdstrike posted:I'm going to inherit Kash's model train set my brother likes trains, I don't care about them other than they exist.
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Mar 7, 2016 21:58
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What the gently caress did I just read. What did I sign up to? Is this a game of mafia or an experiment / puzzle you want to solve. I 'm a backup, but you guys should just execute me to get me out of this theorycrafting session. cheers. ##Amoeba 102
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Mar 7, 2016 21:59
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In reading, it seems like the biggest discrepancy in these pro-claim / anti-claim viewpoints comes from what potentially happens the next day and how to proceed with scum hunting. In order to clear up my own confusions or to get the arguments clarified, I wanted to ask a few question or two to Lumpen (or anything staunchly pro-claim). What are the benefits to softclaiming roles as compared to fully claiming? Will Power need to claim Day 2 for night actions?
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Mar 7, 2016 22:01
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Amoeba102 posted:What the gently caress did I just read. What did I sign up to? I don't want to vote you because I want out of theorycraft land.
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Mar 7, 2016 22:02
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Kashuno posted:Here is just one scenario displaying why it's bad No, town has not suddenly lost all their power roles. At worst, we lose two. And if they are all just power claims, they may only lose one if scum accidentally target the BP or if they use poison power or scum and sk target the same individual. There are so many confirmed town at once that scum/sk can't possibly burn through them fast enough. Also, if it went down like this it means we also get extra unimpeachable information from those town if they have good results. Like, let's take a quick gander at the numbers there. Let's say scum/sk all claim backup. So now we have a close to 50/50 shot of hitting a bad guy randomly with our votes. Let's worse case it and say we vote out a town on day 1, and scum and SK kill two of the town power roles over night. So now we would be at 5 town power roles again. With 8 remaining claimed backups. So our odds of hitting a bad guy are up to 5/8 on a random vote since only 3 of those people would really be backups. There are a lot of variables, Counter claims could be made, etc. That's what makes it super interesting to see play out.
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Mar 7, 2016 22:02
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Kashuno posted:I don't want to vote you because I want out of theorycraft land. Was this game always supposed to be a "het ley's just experiment with a setup to try and break it" or are some being loving with the mod?
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Mar 7, 2016 22:06
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Jon Irenicus posted:In reading, it seems like the biggest discrepancy in these pro-claim / anti-claim viewpoints comes from what potentially happens the next day and how to proceed with scum hunting. In order to clear up my own confusions or to get the arguments clarified, I wanted to ask a few question or two to Lumpen (or anything staunchly pro-claim). Softclaiming, if there are no counters, means scum/sk can't target completely accurately. Scum could accidentally hit the BP miller as an example. Or because of their fear of this, they could just use poison which means we get an extra day of that power roles power. It's an extra layer of potential protection on the better information gathering roles. I think D2 will probably involve the rest of the claim for a variety of reasons. But it depends on what happens.
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Mar 7, 2016 22:08
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Amoeba102 posted:Was this game always supposed to be a "het ley's just experiment with a setup to try and break it" or are some being loving with the mod? Not exactly, but some of us were super curious about it and wanted to give it a shot. Obviously not everyone is on board. Here is one of my pre sign up posts: King Burgundy posted:We should try the day 1 full claim this time. And mod response: Friction.123 posted:I certainly won't stop you if thats the route you decide to take. Better hope Lumpen isn't your scum team again though. And another sign up along those lines: GulagDolls posted:ill play, and help break
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Mar 7, 2016 22:11
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Okay I was in a Personal Union with Bohemia and now I have inherited I am full catapultist now.
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Mar 7, 2016 22:12
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Wait was lumpen scum last game. the guy who, while saying "nah no massclaim," kept being the guy to bring it up over and over?
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Mar 7, 2016 22:12
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Tonight I will throw Amiibo out of the game
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Mar 7, 2016 22:12
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Amoeba102 posted:Was this game always supposed to be a "het ley's just experiment with a setup to try and break it" or are some being loving with the mod? it's part of the game being an "open setup" people want to try and break it with math rather than playing mafia
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Mar 7, 2016 22:13
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Kashuno posted:Wait was lumpen scum last game. the guy who, while saying "nah no massclaim," kept being the guy to bring it up over and over? Yes. He was scum last time and said that he didn't think it was a good idea until later.
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Mar 7, 2016 22:13
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King Burgundy posted:Yes. He was scum last time and said that he didn't think it was a good idea until later. Yeah. He just kept bringing it up over and over again to keep it on peoples minds. I am happy with my vote.
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Mar 7, 2016 22:13
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Kashuno posted:Yeah. He just kept bringing it up over and over again to keep it on peoples minds. I am happy with my vote. So when he was scum, he tried to prevent us from mass claiming on D1, and this time he's going for the mass claim on D1 and that makes you think he is scum? 
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Mar 7, 2016 22:15
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Well if you guys signed up to do that fine. I signed up to be turbo'd, so you could do me a favour.
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Mar 7, 2016 22:17
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lumpen make me power plz
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Mar 7, 2016 22:17
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King Burgundy posted:So when he was scum, he tried to prevent us from mass claiming on D1, and this time he's going for the mass claim on D1 and that makes you think he is scum? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8CmlIhSf-U
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Mar 7, 2016 22:19
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King Burgundy posted:So when he was scum, he tried to prevent us from mass claiming on D1, and this time he's going for the mass claim on D1 and that makes you think he is scum? You're missing his point. Kashuno is saying that Scumpen spent a lot of time talking about claiming, and that' the sum total of his contribution so far.
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Mar 7, 2016 22:19
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King Burgundy posted:So when he was scum, he tried to prevent us from mass claiming on D1, and this time he's going for the mass claim on D1 and that makes you think he is scum? are you to obfuscate my point about Lumpen talking a lot about claiming poo poo and not much about playing actual mafia in two games now.
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Mar 7, 2016 22:20
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Amoeba102 posted:You're missing his point. Kashuno is saying that Scumpen spent a lot of time talking about claiming, and that' the sum total of his contribution so far. that's the sum of almost every single person's contributions so far. it doesn't matter. for the record, lumpen talked less about claiming last game.
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Mar 7, 2016 22:20
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do you guys want to solve this as a puzzle game because you hate mafia?
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Mar 7, 2016 22:21
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