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Data Graham posted:Can we really believe Chuck had Jimmy's interests at heart when he told Kim he thought Jimmy was a good person but.... ? I think Chuck's character has been created in a way that this interpretation is possible. That's what makes the dynamic fun to watch (for me). I tend to think that Chuck honestly believes he's doing Kim a favor by telling the story. Look at the situation- Kim has been severely burned by Jimmy's slipping act. It's not like Chuck goes around telling that story to anyone who likes Jimmy just to screw him over. Chuck is a great character because he's generally a good person due to being a rule follower. He always does it by the book and his resentment of Jimmy flows from Jimmy always taking shortcuts. Or alternatively, his resentment flows from childhood feelings of jealousy over Jimmy being the popular, lovable rogue who charms people in a way that Chuck never can (the failed joke before bed). Figuring out whether or not Chuck is "right" to mistrust Jimmy and to what degree is a central question of the show.
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Mar 16, 2016 15:22
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Incidentally I love how in Chuck's failed joke he can't bring himself to use the semi-disparaging term "lawyers". He substitutes "attorneys".
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Mar 16, 2016 15:26
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Data Graham posted:Incidentally I love how in Chuck's failed joke he can't bring himself to use the semi-disparaging term "lawyers". He substitutes "attorneys". Haha I did not catch that. You're so right.
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Mar 16, 2016 15:32
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TheBizzness posted:I can't believe this show about a lawyer isn't like Breaking Bad. For 15 episodes now, the writers have been gently tickling the audience's balls with Mike/Nacho/Tuco (and now Hector) stuff, and you're surprised people kinda want them to maybe start working the shaft a little bit? Despite this thread, the majority of the people watching this show do kinda want it to be more like Breaking Bad, HTH.
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Mar 16, 2016 15:37
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Das Boo posted:Ohhhh, could I tell you stories of thieving relatives. But this character isn't them. Thus far and up to now, robbing family goes against what we know of Jimmy as a character. For now. We've seen him turn down massive lump sums of cash "because it's the right thing to do," so we know he's not entirely without integrity. We've seen him work for Chuck's well-being to his own detriment. We've seen how much affection he has for his friends and how hard he works for their sakes. (He's hurt Kim right now, but he never targeted her. She's a kind of bogus causality.) His career has mostly been made on small time scamming from the bar crowd with his big claim to fame being 8k from his slipping scam. There's a big leap from scamming random strangers to sucking the lifeblood from your own father. We just haven't witnessed that depth. HOWEVER! The event with the father could be the driving force for a past character turn we haven't witnessed yet. But as of what I know of Chuck's character right now, he is manipulative, he is resentful, and he always assumes the worst of his brother. Again, based on what we know right now. All fair points, and honestly I was firmly in the "Chuck's wrong about Jimmy about this" camp until I saw some people take Chuck's story as the truth and remembered The Case of the Missing Twenty from my teenage years. Still am, too. If I was the betting sort I'd wager Jimmy wasn't the one skimming, but my read on the character is that he could, possibly, have done it. As a youthful mistake that he regretted, but still.
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Mar 16, 2016 15:43
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Bulky Bartokomous posted:Complicated and ambiguous. Does not compute. Beep boop bop. I tried updating my Brain OS with the Nuance sub-process, but it conflicted with ShitPost.exe
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Mar 16, 2016 15:52
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wins.
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You don't even have to believe Jimmy wouldn't skim a bit off the top of his dad's business over the years to realize things were probably a bit more complicated than Chuck's version where Jimmy was complicit in killing their loving father.
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Mar 16, 2016 15:54
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Taking some money here and there is also something I can totally see Jimmy being able to justify to himself as not a big deal. I can easily see him thinking he works there and it's his own dad's store, so it's pretty much his family's money collectively and he can take a little bit of it if he wants some. I wouldn't be surprised if this story is revisited from Jimmy's point of view by the end of the season, though.
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Mar 16, 2016 15:56
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Cape Cod Crab Chip posted:All fair points, and honestly I was firmly in the "Chuck's wrong about Jimmy about this" camp until I saw some people take Chuck's story as the truth and remembered The Case of the Missing Twenty from my teenage years. Still am, too. If I was the betting sort I'd wager Jimmy wasn't the one skimming, but my read on the character is that he could, possibly, have done it. As a youthful mistake that he regretted, but still. 700 is a lot of twenties to take.
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Mar 16, 2016 15:58
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So we're fairly sure that Jimmy embezzled $14k and six months after the store was sold, he murdered his father? Jimmy is a typical mafia stooge name, what if he was working for the mob? They paid him to ruin the store and also murder his dad. This is the only possible scenario and anyone who disagrees is wrong.
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Mar 16, 2016 16:00
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Das Boo posted:Ohhhh, could I tell you stories of thieving relatives. But this character isn't them. Thus far and up to now, robbing family goes against what we know of Jimmy as a character. For now. We've seen him turn down massive lump sums of cash "because it's the right thing to do," so we know he's not entirely without integrity. We've seen him work for Chuck's well-being to his own detriment. We've seen how much affection he has for his friends and how hard he works for their sakes. (He's hurt Kim right now, but he never targeted her. She's a kind of bogus causality.) His career has mostly been made on small time scamming from the bar crowd with his big claim to fame being 8k from his slipping scam. There's a big leap from scamming random strangers to sucking the lifeblood from your own father. We just haven't witnessed that depth. HOWEVER! The event with the father could be the driving force for a past character turn we haven't witnessed yet. But as of what I know of Chuck's character right now, he is manipulative, he is resentful, and he always assumes the worst of his brother. Again, based on what we know right now. I see what you're saying but I don't think Kim is a bogus casualty. Lawyering or any high end professional field is built on everyone having a reputation. It is a lot of people vouching for others and all that jazz. Jimmy knew that airing a commercial without approval for even creating it would blow up in his face, and he knew Kim and Howard pulled strings with the other law firm to get him that job. He knows Kim's rep is on the line and he still has to go and do his thing. You can kind of see Jimmy in season 1 try to do right and there are several points in the season where he could go Totally Saul and chooses not to, but I think he basically has become Saul now, he just hasn't completely isolated and divorced himself from his friends and family. I don't see how that doesn't happen by the time this season ends.
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Mar 16, 2016 16:12
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Cojawfee posted:So we're fairly sure that Jimmy embezzled $14k and six months after the store was sold, he murdered his father? Jimmy is a typical mafia stooge name, what if he was working for the mob? They paid him to ruin the store and also murder his dad. This is the only possible scenario and anyone who disagrees is wrong.
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Mar 16, 2016 16:20
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notthegoatseguy posted:I see what you're saying but I don't think Kim is a bogus casualty. Lawyering or any high end professional field is built on everyone having a reputation. It is a lot of people vouching for others and all that jazz. Jimmy knew that airing a commercial without approval for even creating it would blow up in his face, and he knew Kim and Howard pulled strings with the other law firm to get him that job. He knows Kim's rep is on the line and he still has to go and do his thing. But they do play it as though Jimmy didn't even consider the possibility that things wouldn't go right for him, rather than him fully understanding he's screwing over Kim and Howard while doing it.
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Mar 16, 2016 16:40
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I cannot for the life of me figure out the dynamic between Chuch and Howard. At first I thought Chuck was Howards charity case, but now I'm not sure about anything.
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Mar 16, 2016 16:47
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I think Howard really wants approval from Chuck. He's like an uncle or a second father to Howard. But Jimmy also probably wasn't totally wrong in season 1 about Howard not wanting to pay Chuck a bunch of money if he officially leaves the firm.
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Mar 16, 2016 16:50
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That sounds on the money, but there was something about the "She's still in the doghouse?" conversation that made me read "gently caress you" all over Howards face.
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Mar 16, 2016 16:52
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My money, heh, is on the 14k being some sort of tax evasion scam Jimmy set up to help keep the business alfoat. Father McGill was just too ashamed to tell Chuck the truth.
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Mar 16, 2016 16:53
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I can't wait for Jimmy to bring down HHM. Whether its by design or by accident it is going to be great TV to watch Hamlin, Kim, and Chuck deal with the fallout.
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Mar 16, 2016 16:55
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Solice Kirsk posted:I can't wait for Jimmy to bring down HHM. Whether its by design or by accident it is going to be great TV to watch Hamlin, Kim, and Chuck deal with the fallout. Can it be Monday gain yet? 
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Mar 16, 2016 17:04
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Ilustforponydeath posted:That sounds on the money, but there was something about the "She's still in the doghouse?" conversation that made me read "gently caress you" all over Howards face. Couple ways I could see that. One is that Howard is still just really pissy about the whole situation and he's mad at Chuck in a sort of general way for reminding him about it. The other is that he realizes, maybe sub-consciously, that Chuck manipulated him into coming down hard on Kim ("So what are you going to do about it?") and now he's switching his stance all of a sudden.
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Mar 16, 2016 17:19
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Toplowtech posted:I will laugh if their "saint" of a father's shop was just simply a money laundering operation. At the risk of completely contradicting my earlier post and making myself look like a chump, I just realized that would actually kind of fit with one of Saul's throwaway lines from Breaking Bad: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RH09RUA7b3Q&t=105s "Believe me, money laundering ain't what it used to be. God, do I miss the Eighties." poo poo.
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Mar 16, 2016 17:21
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^^I like this theory better. I have a crackpot theory for the 14k. What if it was being used to pay for Chuck's college and Jimmy agreed to it because he believed in Chuck? Chuck thought he got a scholarship that he never got. So it was a lame family secret that was misunderstood. But I haven't fact checked if Chuck was in college during that time. The show to me seems to hinder on Jimmy and Chuck being there for each other and then because of that they're more miserable.
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Mar 16, 2016 17:28
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jfood posted:My money, heh, is on the 14k being some sort of tax evasion scam Jimmy set up to help keep the business alfoat. Father McGill was just too ashamed to tell Chuck the truth. I'm betting that Dad used the money to help Chuck go to college. He used some kind of devious bookkeeping scheme or laundering ploy or misdirection similar to Walter's thing with the Schwarzes to keep Chuck from finding out what was really going on because Chuck would know that the family couldn't really afford it. It's just that Dad, miscalculating, thought that they could make it work long enough for Chuck to get through law school and then go back to normal. No, I'm not really betting that.
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Mar 16, 2016 17:30
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I get that speculation is a big part of the fun of discussing TV shows, but every week the thread derails with pages and pages of debate on one thing that you cannot "solve" without seeing more episodes because it could go either way. This week, obviously, it's whether or not you can take Chuck's story at face value. I also agree with the sentiments that the show needs to pick up the pace, even if just a little. The musical montage with Kim was okay but went on way too loving long, especially considering it was the second montage on the same topic. SweetMercifulCrap! fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Mar 16, 2016 |
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Mar 16, 2016 17:31
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Nude posted:^^I like this theory better. Ack. You beat me posting this by a couple of minutes. But yes, Chuck tells Kim he had gone away to college.
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Mar 16, 2016 17:32
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Jimmy hurting Kim was an 'unintended' casualty but she literally told him in the episode before that everything he does will be reflected back on her and he still did the commercial thing anyway. He means well, but this entire thing just shows how shortsighted he is - being extremely selfish (unintentionally) and then sort of bewildered that there are consequences not just for him but for anyone else immediately involved. It's quite possible Chuck is telling the truth - the truth of what he knows. It's possible Jimmy did take money from his dad, felt bad, and 'cried the hardest at the funeral'...but the source of this story isn't completely reliable either. Obviously, Chuck has been unreliable in terms of truth - using Howard to do his dirty work, actively lying to Jimmy by saying he wanted to work on Sandpiper with him but then turning around and doing what he did. Chuck wants 'the best' for Jimmy but only on his terms, because he wants control. Jimmy is like this wild, crazy hair that won't stay down and Chuck essentially put a drat helmet on instead by trying to keep Jimmy in the mailroom. I don't believe for a single second that the story of the missing money from their dad is that simple. Nothing in this show so far in terms of 'facts presented' has been as simple as what's coming out of someone's mouth. Chuck's prejudices toward Jimmy, whether justified or not, are still self-perpetuating. It doesn't make him wrong ; it just makes him part of the ongoing problem. Not only did Chuck not want Jimmy to work at HHM, he didn't want him practicing law, period. You can't micromanage people's lives like that, justified or not, sabotage them, and have a clear conscience at the end of the day. Chuck wants the truth but he doesn't want to look at himself at all, really. He's shown as a person who is great at pointing out what people shouldn't do (even to his wife) yet does those things himself. He's a hypocrite. He is not a reliable narrative here, we can't take anything he's said at face value because we've already seen what happens when we do. I do like the theory that the dad sort of gambled the money away himself or paid it off as protection money. It's perfectly in line that Chuck refuses to see his dad as anything but saint , because then he might be having to see Jimmy as something besides Slippin' Jimmy. And he doesn't want to, it would turn his world upside down and as we can see Chuck is a very rigid character.
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Mar 16, 2016 17:44
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The dude connects "Jimmy took $14k over the years" to "six months later dad dies". That's a helluva leap.
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Mar 16, 2016 20:04
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Doctor Reynolds posted:The dude connects "Jimmy took $14k over the years" to "six months later dad dies". That's a helluva leap. Even Dr. Sam Beckett cannot make a leap that large.
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Mar 16, 2016 20:09
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Liking both the "money laundering in the 80s" and "Chuck's college fund" theories. I'll add that I could easily believe that Chuck caught Jimmy taking $20 out of the till one time, the only time Jimmy ever did. Chuck covered for him, protecting him from consequences, as he always believes he has done in regards to Jimmy. And that's the basis for his then believing that $20 turned into $14k even though it wasn't Jimmy at all. That's one of the things about Chuck. He really believes every word he told Kim, I'm sure. He also really believes he has Jimmy's best interests as heart, as well.
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Mar 16, 2016 20:22
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Doctor Reynolds posted:The dude connects "Jimmy took $14k over the years" to "six months later dad dies". That's a helluva leap. Guy I know started mining for bitcoins. Six months later *BAM* dead.
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Mar 16, 2016 20:31
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Sub Rosa posted:Liking both the "money laundering in the 80s" and "Chuck's college fund" theories. I'll add that I could easily believe that Chuck caught Jimmy taking $20 out of the till one time, the only time Jimmy ever did. Chuck covered for him, protecting him from consequences, as he always believes he has done in regards to Jimmy. And that's the basis for his then believing that $20 turned into $14k even though it wasn't Jimmy at all. The problem I see with "Chuck's college fund," as appealing as it may be at a certain level, is that if Dad wants to keep the source of the college money secret from Chuck, it doesn't seem that he'd let him anywhere near the books for fear of what he might be able to figure out. Certain amounts paid out at certain times, or whatever. No use risking opening that can of worms when Dad knows what the problem is anyway. He could just explain the whole thing to the family by shrugging and saying, "Times are tough" or whatever.
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Mar 16, 2016 20:45
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God drat Rhea Seehorn killed this week. I wanted to cry on her behalf just from her face when Hamlin kept her in the basement. Also it was a nice surprise to see that Hector's actor isn't actually a wheelchair bound filthy old corpse in TYOOL 2016. Kind of like seeing Dominic Chianese transform from a shrivelled alzheimer's riddled husk to this suave motherfucker: 
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Mar 16, 2016 20:54
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Ok, weird... weren't we all certain that BCS was guaranteed for another 2 seasons? I ask because it was JUST renewed for season 3. http://www.rollingstone.com/tv/news/better-call-saul-renewed-for-third-season-20160315
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Mar 16, 2016 21:17
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Secret Agent X23 posted:The problem I see with "Chuck's college fund," as appealing as it may be at a certain level, is that if Dad wants to keep the source of the college money secret from Chuck, it doesn't seem that he'd let him anywhere near the books for fear of what he might be able to figure out. Certain amounts paid out at certain times, or whatever. No use risking opening that can of worms when Dad knows what the problem is anyway. He could just explain the whole thing to the family by shrugging and saying, "Times are tough" or whatever. I'm not a subscriber to the college fund theory or anything that specific, but just cuz Chuck says his dad asked him to look at the books to help out, it doesn't mean things happened that way. Chuck's a weird control freak that seems to love reading through reams of old paperwork and forms that most other people would dread, I could easily see him helping himself to his dad's books, receipts, etc, as easily as he accuses Jimmy of helping himself to cash from the till.
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Mar 16, 2016 21:19
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:Ok, weird... weren't we all certain that BCS was guaranteed for another 2 seasons? I ask because it was JUST renewed for season 3. could be that they signed a contract to renew two more seasons, but they still have to go through the renewal process. Like they signed agreeing that they'll sign later? I don't know don't ask me about contract law, okay?
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Mar 16, 2016 21:24
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Mr. Gibbycrumbles posted:For 15 episodes now, the writers have been gently tickling the audience's balls with Mike/Nacho/Tuco (and now Hector) stuff, and you're surprised people kinda want them to maybe start working the shaft a little bit? I'm glad those people aren't making this show
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Mar 16, 2016 22:03
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Hakkesshu posted:I'm glad those people aren't making this show Why? It would be a better show.
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Mar 16, 2016 22:11
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Super Ninja Fish posted:Why? It would be a better show. Breaking Bad exists. This is a show about lawyers and some criminals sometimes.
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Mar 16, 2016 22:17
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Super Ninja Fish posted:Why? It would be a better show. I don't understand this logic. There is no way this show ends up like BB. Saul and Mike aren't full of chutzpah and reckless like Walt so it's just not possible.
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Mar 16, 2016 22:20
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When do they start cooking meth? Is Mike like a really old Walt who survived the nazis and Jimmy is an older Jesse?
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Mar 16, 2016 22:21
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