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Nate RFB posted:Based on the "before I play" thread the only master I really want is the one that boosts Agility on level up but I think I already hosed that up because you need to buy every single weapon available without selling any and I already skipped one because it was too expensive, naively thinking I could just backtrack to it later before of course the plot blocked me from doing so. As I recall you don't need every single weapon to get that master, it just makes it easier to get them earlier because you need something like 20 unique weapons in your inventory for them be available.
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Mar 17, 2016 14:32
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BabyRyoga posted:RS3 probably has my favorite tracks of any SNES game, very under rated and under appreciated as far as VGM from that era goes. These two are possibly two of the best boss battle themes of all time in any game of any genre: All the romasaga combat music is basically amazing. My personal favorites are probably Battle 2 from RS1 and the last boss theme from same game.
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Mar 17, 2016 14:42
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The White Dragon posted:Doing damage directly to your Life Points unless you remembered to buy Dead Stones for everyone, which you can't go back for and cost that weird chip currency that you can't really get without a Pocketstation anyway, and then doing regular HP damage on top of that, was just too much. you get chips by breaking your equipment
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Mar 17, 2016 15:20
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Yeah, the egg in SF2 is a total dick move. If you don't have Dead Stones, it forces you into a damage race, which requires learning high-end techs, but the enemies in the final dungeon aren't particularly great for learning techs. If I hadn't used guides to figure out how to learn techs and what the better combos were I would have probably been stuck.
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Mar 17, 2016 15:50
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Is there some sort of trick to enjoying the DIsgaea series? People rave about it all the time but every time I tried to play 1-3 I'd get an hour in, get extremely overwhelmed and just quit.
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Mar 17, 2016 16:20
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Verranicus posted:Is there some sort of trick to enjoying the DIsgaea series? People rave about it all the time but every time I tried to play 1-3 I'd get an hour in, get extremely overwhelmed and just quit. Do you love ridiculous amounts of grinding and optimizing your grinding. That is what 90% of Disgaea playtime is about. The rest is the story and if you're getting overwhelmed there get out while you can.
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Mar 17, 2016 16:26
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RS3's final boss is just so insane in general, you can hit max rank and grind until everyone has 999HP and cram your skill list full of dodge techs and it still just comes down to the final boss not pulling some horrible BS on you. Really sweet game other than that, but at least in general you can usually brute force your way through the final boss after a few tries at it.
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Mar 17, 2016 16:29
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:RS3's final boss is just so insane in general, you can hit max rank and grind until everyone has 999HP and cram your skill list full of dodge techs and it still just comes down to the final boss not pulling some horrible BS on you. And if you don't do the boss refights in the final dungeon before facing it, you get to fight an even tougher version of it. 
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Mar 17, 2016 16:50
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Zore posted:Do you love ridiculous amounts of grinding and optimizing your grinding. Who finds grinding for the sake of grinding fun? Why not just punch yourself in the dick repeatedly to save yourself the price of the game?
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Mar 17, 2016 17:05
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Verranicus posted:Who finds grinding for the sake of grinding fun? Why not just punch yourself in the dick repeatedly to save yourself the price of the game? Disgaea isn't grinding for the sake of grinding. It has series of increasingly hard challenges and then offers you different (and often fun) ways to increase your character's power levels to meet those challenges. Each successive Disgaea game has de-emphasized pure grinding in favor of finding effective and fast ways to power up your character. It's effectively a game about figuring out how to best manipulate the mechanics to get as powerful as fast as possible while giving you a ton of mechanics to manipulate.
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Mar 17, 2016 17:07
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Thuryl posted:And if you don't do the boss refights in the final dungeon before facing it, you get to fight an even tougher version of it. I kind of want to look at the script files for that boss to see how that factors into it all. Because I know if any of the 4 sub-bosses are still alive, the final boss will transition into a form based around them. But if they are all dead .. sometimes it does something else weird? Like sometimes it just full heals your whole party? But I don't know how that actually factors into the final boss's total HP, if it's last form is on a separate lifebar entirely or what. One strategy that I tried and had decent luck with at one point was leaving alive one of the sub-bosses that I had a bunch of elemental resistance items for (think it was the Water one?), but I dunno if that actually makes things easier in the long run or not.
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Mar 17, 2016 17:20
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Verranicus posted:Who finds grinding for the sake of grinding fun? Why not just punch yourself in the dick repeatedly to save yourself the price of the game? Because you don't see numbers go up when you're punching yourself in the dick. You'd be surprised by how many people enjoy grinding in games. That said those particular games' grindy reputation has always been exaggerated, often by people who have never actually played them.
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Mar 17, 2016 17:27
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Numbers Go Up is the most beautiful concept known to man, so I can see the appeal.
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Mar 17, 2016 17:28
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Kanfy posted:Because you don't see numbers go up when you're punching yourself in the dick. You'd be surprised by how many people enjoy grinding in games. 
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Mar 17, 2016 17:33
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Kanfy posted:Because you don't see numbers go up when you're punching yourself in the dick. You'd be surprised by how many people enjoy grinding in games. So would I be able to do the story in the DIsgaea games without grinding or touching whatever the hell that item world thing was?
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Mar 17, 2016 17:37
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Yes
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Mar 17, 2016 17:38
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Verranicus posted:So would I be able to do the story in the DIsgaea games without grinding or touching whatever the hell that item world thing was? If you're only doing the story, you will never have to grind at all. To be fair, the item world (or each game's equivalent) is fun as heck.
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Mar 17, 2016 17:39
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I try to play disgaea but I get overwhelmed by all the poo poo you can do pretty quickly also the first game is probably bad now but I have to start series in order
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Mar 17, 2016 17:41
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Disgaea is not a hard franchise at all.
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Mar 17, 2016 17:42
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Yakiniku Teishoku posted:Unlimited Saga is a cool game if you have a brain that's broken in a very specific way Unlimited Saga is a beautiful mess in every sense of the words, and it still has a place in my heart despite it being so incredibly awful Like what were they thinking when they came up with that leveling system
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Mar 17, 2016 17:54
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Nate RFB posted:OK I just got Momo in BF3 and I think I'm starting to get a better feel for the game. Having only one or two characters in the party makes so many stretches of this early game laborious. Also is there really no way to change Masters/apprentices without going back to meet with the master? I want to put Nina on Mygas but he's all the way back in McNeil and I can't get there for story reasons. Also Ryu was Bunyan's apprentice but he can't net any of his skills for the same reason (can't go back there). It seems like such a hassle. You'll be able to get to everywhere you've been already on the world map easily before too long so dont worry, the beginning is by far the hardest in terms of fights save for a few areas later. By the way this game is long. I ended up having Nina on Mygas for most of the game because I missed the 2nd mage tutor and near endgame just put her on who I think is the third and last tutor who is good for magic. (Nina was almost always in my main party for the whole game and she turned out fine) Ryu as the fishman's apprentice really really helps but you have to fish a decent bit, best done ASAP when you get to that area of the game(port town). I think thats the one that gives more HP and AP which you'll enjoy in later bossfights for having a lot of dragon time to win boss fights early
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Mar 17, 2016 17:56
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I enjoy Disgaea but I'm one of those who plays until you hit the step in the post game where the grind, when finessed, is still very time consuming. For the latest Disgaea that was the aptitude grinding. Thankfully the post games are usually divided such that you can peace out at any time and still feel like you saw something. I think Max aptitudes was basically one step shy of Baal.
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Mar 17, 2016 17:57
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voltcatfish posted:I try to play disgaea but I get overwhelmed by all the poo poo you can do pretty quickly The first game is EXTREMELY clunky compared to the rest of them If you're only on PC, emulating 2 should be pretty easy and is a nice step up, although it introduces some mechanics they rightfully got rid of
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Mar 17, 2016 17:59
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Verranicus posted:So would I be able to do the story in the DIsgaea games without grinding or touching whatever the hell that item world thing was? Yeah, there are some tough story battles in those games but they've always been perfectly winnable without grinding. The much talked-about grinding aspect kicks in only when you get to the post-game, and even there how much is required depends entirely on how deep into it you want to go. Also the Item World is pretty fun since you never have to fight the same battle twice and they mix them up in various ways. voltcatfish posted:I try to play disgaea but I get overwhelmed by all the poo poo you can do pretty quickly Good to hear I'm not alone with that weirdness.  I don't really see what's "overwhelming" about Disgaea though, you can definitely dig deep into some of the systems and go crazy with the numbers but it's not a thing you actually need to do to finish the game. Also the first game's on Steam these days, though I haven't tried it so I don't know much about how good a version it is. Reviews seem positive, at least.
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Mar 17, 2016 17:59
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My horrible person optimization strategy in Harvest Moon-esque games is to never interact with anyone whose friendship does not unlock something for the first x years it takes to unlock everything of consequence and any time-saving options that are available for the day-to-day crap. Usually I burn out on the game well before this point. I have only ever gotten married in one of those games twice, and RF2 kind of forces you to do it so I'm not sure I count that. Regarding Disgaea: It helps to look at the story and postgame as two completely different games with two completely different playstyles and objectives. The story is there for you to learn the rules and use them to solve puzzles (often literally in the case of geo panels) and engage the enemy in a way that won't get you dogpiled. You play this like a typical SRPG. The postgame is when you sit back, think about the rules, and ask yourself what the fastest and easiest method would be to exploit those rules beyond any rational extreme (though entirely within the developers' intentions, usually), determine how the various exploits can feed into each other, and then execute them to the point of mathematical absurdity and machine-like efficiency, reincarnating a lv9999 50 times in an hour or maxing out your Mana/HL in a single one-turn battle. This game is won when you cannot make numbers go up any more. Then they throw Baal or whatever at you and it's basically just the story mode again where you need to apply the rules to the challenge because it's assumed you've made the numbers go up as much as they can and that's more or less the entry barrier to actually fight the superboss. Sometimes literally: D5's Carnage Baal does something like 2 billion unavoidable damage to any unit that deploys. If you are still playing the first game or starting on the second, this sounds absurd and impossible. If you've figured out all the system exploits, you shrug and deploy.
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Mar 17, 2016 18:12
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Disgaea's main weakness isn't any sort of grind in my opinion but the purposely dumb AI. The game is still fun but the lack of anything substantial there means battles are very strictly built around level/equipment checks. The main story stuff is easy enough you won't run into a problem there. Stacking is really fun though.
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Mar 17, 2016 18:15
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Disagaea is cool, but I was never very good at it. Phantom Brave is the saddest loving game ever.
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Mar 17, 2016 18:16
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littleorv posted:South East room. That thing is not a pillar and you can walk on it to hit the switch son of a loving bitch thanks
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Mar 17, 2016 18:17
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bloodychill posted:Disgaea's main weakness isn't any sort of grind in my opinion but the purposely dumb AI. The game is still fun but the lack of anything substantial there means battles are very strictly built around level/equipment checks. The main story stuff is easy enough you won't run into a problem there. I like the main story at least because they can come up with interesting geo puzzle stuff, so they mostly don't need good AI to make things interesting
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Mar 17, 2016 18:19
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bloodychill posted:Disgaea's main weakness isn't any sort of grind in my opinion but the purposely dumb AI. The game is still fun but the lack of anything substantial there means battles are very strictly built around level/equipment checks. The main story stuff is easy enough you won't run into a problem there though. The AI is bad though, but I don't know how you make it smarter given how much random poo poo there is to account for.
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Mar 17, 2016 18:20
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Gwyrgyn Blood posted:I kind of want to look at the script files for that boss to see how that factors into it all. Because I know if any of the 4 sub-bosses are still alive, the final boss will transition into a form based around them. But if they are all dead .. sometimes it does something else weird? Like sometimes it just full heals your whole party? But I don't know how that actually factors into the final boss's total HP, if it's last form is on a separate lifebar entirely or what. If you can read japanese, you can definitely find information that analyses everything in this game down to the most minute detail. It's been a while since I investigated this in detail so I'm speaking from memory here, but basically, in its "true" form, The Thing That Destroys has a huge main healthbar (it's something like 16k hp but only takes 10% of the damage, or somesuch). It has a certain chance, or it might be every X turns, where it triggers eclipe and switches forms. The sub-boss forms has a set a mount of hitpoints and when defeated, switches back to its default state and loses a signfiicant chunk of hitpoints. In addition to the Four Nobles-forms there's also something like four or so different states of the boss itself that aren't visually distinct but mean different attack patterns. Also one of those states maybe loses the damage reduction? These states also may or may not trigger a shift to abyss element (elemental state of the battlefield being another one of those delightful unexplained mechanics). The healing thing I believe is either entering or coming out of one of the particular states. At some point (damage-based?) it triggers a final eclipse where it (silently) heals any excess damage over the treshold and goes into desperation mode or whatever. These three videos have everything you might want to know. There's a ton of complexity to this fight that not only is there no way you could possibly glean without intense scrutiny, you also normally wouldn't even bother fighting it since the weakened version is already more than brutal enough for a casual player. Also I'm pretty sure I've seen it beaten in a single-character fists-only challenge run so there's that.
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Mar 17, 2016 18:58
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Erg posted:I like the main story at least because they can come up with interesting geo puzzle stuff, so they mostly don't need good AI to make things interesting That's a good point and so is Nakar's - it kind of plays more like a puzzle game with SRPG trappings and in that light, the bad AI isn't really a weakness.
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Mar 17, 2016 20:03
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bloodychill posted:That's a good point and so is Nakar's - it kind of plays more like a puzzle game with SRPG trappings and in that light, the bad AI isn't really a weakness.
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Mar 17, 2016 20:30
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8-Bit Scholar posted:Disagaea is cool, but I was never very good at it. The problem with Phantom Brave is they never made a updated version with a demon path.
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Mar 17, 2016 20:35
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Well, the updated version did have every single character die at the start of the game so they can dump party members on you, but if anything that alternate story had an exceedingly happy ending compared to the regular one.
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Mar 17, 2016 20:40
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the main problem with saga frontier 2 is that until the egg and the final strategy battle it's actually fun and you can build people in whatever way, it seems cool and freeform and chill then it turns out you built them wrong, and you're hosed.
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Mar 17, 2016 20:45
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corn in the bible posted:the main problem with saga frontier 2 is that until the egg and the final strategy battle it's actually fun and you can build people in whatever way, it seems cool and freeform and chill Sort of, yeah. The entire endgame from the final megalith on is pretty brutal if you haven't had some good luck/good advice by that point. it is a SaGa game after all.
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Mar 17, 2016 20:47
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corn in the bible posted:the main problem with saga frontier 2 is that until the egg and the final strategy battle it's actually fun and you can build people in whatever way, it seems cool and freeform and chill I kind of felt the same way about some of the quests in SF1. Like Riki's quest is "whatever, do what you want, this game is fun and everything's a gas" until the final boss gauntlet where the game might as well tell you to go get hosed, especially if you've been really leaning on a certain party member...
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Mar 17, 2016 20:59
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I love the SaGa games because they have this charm to them that other RPGs don't. SF1 in particular is just so loving weird and unique I can't help but get sucked into it every time I play. The worlds built for each one are so engrossing. Even Last Remnant, which is a SaGa game in all but name, grabs me instantly. Except Unlimited SaGa.
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Mar 17, 2016 21:26
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If the puzzle box from Hellraiser were a video game it'd be Unlimited SaGa. The only people who enjoy it have given themselves fully to the maddening experience.
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Mar 17, 2016 21:28
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