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The worst thing that happened to India was when the British stopped actively starving and shooting them. Because Indians are too stupid to realise international capitalism is bad for the global periphery without it being all in their faces.
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Mar 27, 2016 06:25
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Two Angolan freedom fighters meet on a forest road. "Quickly, come this way, the Marxist-Leninist reinforcements are here" But it was too late, the armoured column was already on top of them, with a streaming banner proclaiming "Your leaders will betray you to the West, give up and you will be well treated", under the insignia of the 1st HorseLord Battalion
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Mar 27, 2016 06:39
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Enjoy posted:Depends what you mean by reaction, decolonisation hasn't been reversed and many of the military and fascist dictatorships have liberalised yeah i mean we aren't quite seeing the new hitler yet but right nationalism is definitely coming back, and big F fascism is sure to follow
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Mar 27, 2016 07:18
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okay you can do uh, whatever it is you think you're doing but it doesn't change that what i said is true, legal separation of governments between colonizer and colonized doesn't mean colonialism has stopped. its actually a way the gently caress better deal for the Empire if all it has to do is predatory finance capital punctuated by occasional CIA coup because they can fake having the moral high ground what you have to grasp is that empire does not have to be government, it only has to be the ruling class which is the bourgeoisie. governments are the tool of the ruling class, not the other way around So insert-latin-american-country-here can have all the legal independence the hell it wants from the USA but lol if you think that will stop coca-cola murdering union activists
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Mar 27, 2016 07:19
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No, Stalin was not a great leader.
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Mar 27, 2016 07:43
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:No, Stalin was not a great leader. Mods???!!
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Mar 27, 2016 07:46
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Horselord has been recently arguing that China has meaningful elections, to give some context.
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Mar 27, 2016 07:46
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:No, Stalin was not a great leader. No, but still better than most of his idiot contemporaries.
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Mar 27, 2016 08:01
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Vivian Darkbloom posted:Horselord has been recently arguing that China has meaningful elections, to give some context. it does though
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Mar 27, 2016 08:15
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HorseLord posted:okay you can do uh, whatever it is you think you're doing Dang where were the bright minds like yours when the DDR sent 30,000 troops to fight imperialism in Africa. What a waste of good Aryan blood. I mean, a waste of time.
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Mar 27, 2016 09:59
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Homework Explainer posted:it does though ahahahahaha
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Mar 27, 2016 10:37
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HorseLord posted:okay you can do uh, whatever it is you think you're doing This is a pretty decent explanation for the outcome of the American Revolution.
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Mar 27, 2016 14:26
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Good to see even socialists have to deal with the guy who's like "did you know black people were better off in the antebellum south than under reconstruction?" but on a global scale.
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Mar 27, 2016 14:47
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Al! posted:Good to see even socialists have to deal with the guy who's like "did you know black people were better off in the antebellum south than under reconstruction?" but on a global scale. Not necessarily agreeing with horselord but you're mischaracterizing his statement badly. "black people were better off in the antebellum than under reconstruction" = black people had it better before the emancipation so peaceful slavery is preferable horselord is saying that colonialism persisted in the form of neol1beral superexploitation and imperialist interventions, which does not imply he prefers old colonialism or that people were better off under it.
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Mar 27, 2016 15:16
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lmao neol1beral wordfilters to n-word. a casualty of the sanders v clinton race i presume?
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Mar 27, 2016 15:22
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:No, Stalin was not a great leader. This is an insanely problematic post.
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Mar 27, 2016 16:02
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I think it's sensible and scientific to say that decolonization is a historical process that took place over enormous areas of the globe and, despite being far from complete, as a movement it achieved serious accomplishments that seem able to withstand even a century of bleak reaction.
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Mar 27, 2016 17:57
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goatse.cx posted:lmao neol1beral wordfilters to n-word. a casualty of the sanders v clinton race i presume? It's a good filter that requires leftists to think about whether or not they want their diction to include a meaningless slur that divorces them from most discourse.
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Mar 27, 2016 18:03
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lol where the gently caress do you get "old colonialism is good" from me staying, very clearly, that colonial relations still exist and are bad if you would like to argue with me at least argue with things i've actually said, idiots
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Mar 27, 2016 18:27
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goatse.cx posted:I'm reading the beenie sanders thread and the one lesson they took away from this ordeal is that 'we can still transform the Democratic Party if we try harder in the future! look how close we got this time!' they've had more success and inspired millions more people to think about capitalism than the radical left ever has in the united states the american radleft loves to sneer at social democrats actually making an effort while they basement circlejerk despite accomplishing far less
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Mar 27, 2016 18:39
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thinking relations between colonized and colonizers have changed but remain exploitative is basically marx's argument about bourgeois revolution creating the conditions for socialist revolution. it's not a particularly controversial position unless you're willfully misinterpreting itThe Saurus posted:they've had more success and inspired millions more people to think about capitalism than the radical left ever has in the united states oh i am so glad you're back to make terrible posts. rallying the left-liberal wing of the democratic party to reluctantly support clinton is not "success" in any meaningful sense of the word. the success will be in how many folks turn from the failure of the sanders campaign to actual organizing. plenty of good folks are doing this right now despite your tired and unfounded cliches 
R. Guyovich fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Mar 27, 2016 |
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Mar 27, 2016 19:06
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Homework Explainer posted:thinking relations between colonized and colonizers have changed but remain exploitative is basically marx's argument about bourgeois revolution creating the conditions for socialist revolution. it's not a particularly controversial position unless you're willfully misinterpreting it Jesus Christ you're dumb. Speaking of Jesus Christ, happy Easter everybody!
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Mar 27, 2016 20:01
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Jewel Repetition posted:Jesus Christ you're dumb. Speaking of Jesus Christ, happy Easter everybody! i'm glad you can always be counted on to swing through for a pointless, thought-terminating post that does nothing except demonstrate how little you understand about anything. cheers, idiot J.V. Stalin posted:Firstly, it is not true that fascism is only the fighting organisation of the bourgeoisie. Fascism is not only a military-technical category. Fascism is the bourgeoisie’s fighting organisation that relies on the active support of Social-Democracy. Social-Democracy is objectively the moderate wing of fascism. There is no ground for assuming that the fighting organisation of the bourgeoisie can achieve decisive successes in battles, or in governing the country, without the active support of Social-Democracy. There is just as little ground for thinking that Social-Democracy can achieve decisive successes in battles, or in governing the country, without the active support of the fighting organisation of the bourgeoisie. These organisations do not negate, but supplement each other. They are not antipodes, they are twins. Fascism is an informal political bloc of these two chief organisations; a bloc, which arose in the circumstances of the post-war crisis of imperialism, and which is intended for combating the proletarian revolution. The bourgeoisie cannot retain power without such a bloc. It would therefore be a mistake to think that “pacifism” signifies the liquidation of fascism. In the present situation, “pacifism” is the strengthening of fascism with its moderate, Social-Democratic wing pushed into the forefront. ps remember how you made the dumbest post of all time Jewel Repetition posted:Basically it's like Shin Megami Tensei IV, unregulated capitalism is the chaos ending, socialism is the law ending, and social democracy is the neutral/human ending. R. Guyovich fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Mar 27, 2016 |
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Mar 27, 2016 20:59
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Dang, you're really selling me on fascism.
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Mar 27, 2016 21:58
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Homework Explainer posted:ps remember how you made the dumbest post of all time That post is right and owns.
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Mar 27, 2016 22:01
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Jack of Hearts posted:Dang, you're really selling me on fascism. there's a long argument about social democratic programs like the new deal and great society disproportionately benefiting whites in the dem primary thread (though you really shouldn't go there, just read about it independently), and benign protectionism feeds into terroristic nationalism represented by donald trump. sanders is the strasser of this election.
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Mar 27, 2016 22:19
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Homework Explainer posted:there's a long argument about social democratic programs like the new deal and great society disproportionately benefiting whites in the dem primary thread (though you really shouldn't go there just read about it independently) No one thinks that except commie retards though. Most social democratic programs in the U.S. disproportionately affect non-whites, not the other way around. It's why the new deal coalition fractured and why racists say we can't be like Nordic countries. Homework Explainer posted:the dem primary thread (though you really shouldn't go there, Well that's one thing we can totally agree on.
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Mar 27, 2016 22:29
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Homework Explainer posted:there's a long argument about social democratic programs like the new deal and great society disproportionately benefiting whites in the dem primary thread (though you really shouldn't go there, just read about it independently), and benign protectionism feeds into terroristic nationalism represented by donald trump. sanders is the strasser of this election. If literally everyone to the right of you is a fascist, then fascism sounds OK to me.
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Mar 27, 2016 22:38
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Jack of Hearts posted:If literally everyone to the right of you is a fascist, then fascism sounds OK to me. Yeah that's what a lot of radlefts think. As a corollary, everyone is fascist, since everyone is to the right of them.
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Mar 27, 2016 22:41
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Bloody Queef posted:Just out of curiosity, what is the major industry in Canton? The mudders, who ironically also built a literal false idol in honor of a man whom they thought was trying to redistribute the wealth when he was really just out for himself. 
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Mar 27, 2016 23:22
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Jewel Repetition posted:No one thinks that except commie retards though. Most social democratic programs in the U.S. disproportionately affect non-whites, not the other way around. It's why the new deal coalition fractured and why racists say we can't be like Nordic countries. yes, the known "commie retards" who write for salon dot com are you ever right about anything quote:New Deal housing and labor policies systematically excluded black people, who as a matter of policy were denied homes in government-subsidized white suburbs and isolated in segregated cities. Indeed, the political success of these “progressive” policies was made possible precisely because of their racism, which was key to winning the support of Southern Democrats. Black people were thus denied a key wealth-building asset and are to this day relegated in large numbers to separate and unequal public school systems—a system maintained by current policies like exclusionary zoning that keep poor people out of affluent communities. and Jack of Hearts posted:If literally everyone to the right of you is a fascist, then fascism sounds OK to me. i know it's typical of posters itf to project their own weirdo thought processes on other people, but don't be this willfully reductionist. characterizing sanders this way is based on what he has said, what he has proposed and a careful reading of history. contrary to what idiots like the anticoms in this thread claim, we're not all competing to be The Most Left, we base our politics on what we observe. R. Guyovich fucked around with this message at 00:12 on Mar 28, 2016 |
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Mar 28, 2016 00:10
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Homework Explainer posted:yes, the known "commie retards" who write for salon dot com Literally That Article posted:Just as economic marginalization was a key tool for maintaining white supremacy, economic justice programs focused on uplifting the poor would have a disproportionately positive effect on black people. Homework Explainer posted:i know it's typical of posters itf to project their own weirdo thought processes on other people, but don't be this willfully reductionist. characterizing sanders this way is based on what he has said, what he has proposed and a careful reading of history. contrary to what idiots like the anticoms in this thread claim, we're not all competing to be The Most Left, we base our politics on what we observe. Communism necessarily has to be based on who's the most left, not what you observe, because if you observed you'd see it never works.
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Mar 28, 2016 00:27
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Homework Explainer posted:it does though 
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Mar 28, 2016 00:35
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edit:nvm
rudatron fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Mar 28, 2016 |
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Mar 28, 2016 01:05
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Jewel Repetition posted:Communism necessarily has to be based on who's the most left, not what you observe, because if you observed you'd see it never works. so we're just gonna rehash this, then. i direct you to the previous umpteen pages of this thread where this has been discussed to death, complete with the usual liberal cliches much like the one in the post i'm quoting
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Mar 28, 2016 01:06
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Homework Explainer posted:so we're just gonna rehash this, then. i direct you to the previous umpteen pages of this thread where this has been discussed to death, complete with the usual liberal cliches much like the one in the post i'm quoting I know you've heard it before a million times, but that doesn't make it any less true, or that it should stop being said.
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Mar 28, 2016 01:13
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i had brought up taylorization (or taylorism) in communism earlier and nobody had anything to say, which is fair enough, but i found this interesting article talking about how the issue was debated within the framework of marxist-leninism or however yall ism/ist that hyphenation http://monoskop.org/images/f/f2/Sochor_Zenovia_A_1981_Soviet_Taylorism_Revisited.pdf i wish i could read this article too, the abstract seems to claim that lenin's dalliances with taylorization were just rhetoric http://www.emeraldinsight.com/doi/abs/10.1108/03068290410518265?journalCode=ijse i think i also brought up the 1975 prize in economics in memory of alfred nobel (not a nobel prize) which was for linear programming (optimization) and went jointly to an american and a soviet practitioner http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/economic-sciences/laureates/1975/presentation-speech.html kind of an interesting read to get a sense of how some people thought optimization sort of transcended the capitalist/socialist conflict. another example is the highlight of the movie Network, this speech, which came out the year after that 'nobel prize' and which i wouldnt be surprised to hear was influenced by that prize or by the same things the prize was influenced by https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKkRDMil0bw apparently zamyatin's We deals with the issue of taylorism, i guess i should read that poo poo sometime i've heard about it for years oystertoadfish fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Mar 28, 2016 |
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Mar 28, 2016 02:12
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gotta say this thread's gotten a million times better now that i no longer read Jewel Repetition's posts in my headcanon papyrus voice
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Mar 28, 2016 02:15
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GunnerJ posted:gotta say this thread's gotten a million times better now that i no longer read Jewel Repetition's posts
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Mar 28, 2016 02:19
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Protip - We is bad. It doesn't really deal with that kind of stuff in the same way 1984 does. It's just straight up not as good. The issue with taylorism is that it's a management style, not a political-economic order, and it's kind of a recurrent one at that. The perpetual problem is always incentives and confirmation bias, the latter being more important. You can't make a judgement of 'fitting' a person into a position without introducing personal bias, or disincentivizing them from giving a poo poo about a position without possibility of advancement. Yet people have to keep learning this same lesson over and over again.
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Mar 28, 2016 02:30
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