TG Chat/Cooking Thread 2016

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goldjas: Feb 22, 2009; I HATE ALL FORMS OF FUN AND ENTERTAINMENT. I HATE BEAUTY. I AM GOLDJAS.

Unfortunately I'm pretty sure 5E will never make a good video game(how could it, really, with...whatever it has that are called rules). a 4E Fire Emblem/Final Fantasy Tactics style type game I think is what we really needed for DnD to actually have real video game legs. It would still be kind of niche, but being as niche as Fire Emblem or FFT is a pretty decent place to be (especially compared to DnD video games right now). For now we'll just have to take Pillars of Eternity, which does use a lot of 4E ideas, and I liked that game quite a lot, so I guess I'm half alright with the current state of affairs?

Still would have bought like a 200$ collectors edition of a for reals good 4E game, but I'll take what I can get I suppose.

# ? Apr 2, 2016 06:37

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# ? May 13, 2024 19:40

Kai Tave: Jul 2, 2012; Fallen Rib

The best 4E video game is the Firaxis XCOM reboot.

# ? Apr 2, 2016 06:43

Helical Nightmares: Apr 30, 2009

Kai Tave posted:

The best 4E video game is the Firaxis XCOM reboot.

I don't recally any enemy in 4ed being as memorably annoying as loving Thin Men, but then again I never played 4ed so what do I know?

Tangentially related to 5ed, I picked up Shadow of the Demonlord, which was kickstarted and written by one of the 5ed guys.

Granted, the mood and tone is something I'm a total fanboy for, but has anyone played it? How does it compare to 5ed and Flame Princess? Any outstanding novel mechanics I should look out for while reading? How are the expansions?

Another thing that's been bugging me. Why are pdfs often 32 pages? Pathfinder does that consistently and so do other companies. Did someone work out an equation for optimal printing costs?

# ? Apr 2, 2016 07:35

Kai Tave: Jul 2, 2012; Fallen Rib

Helical Nightmares posted:

I don't recally any enemy in 4ed being as memorably annoying as loving Thin Men, but then again I never played 4ed so what do I know?

One of the few enemies from early 4E which got outright errata was Needlefang Drake swarms which were supposed to be early low-level enemies (appearing in Keep on the Shadowfell most notably) and were absolutely murderous to the point where there were numerous tales of sessions where half the party died or a TPK ensued because they got eaten by swarms of piranha-lizards.

# ? Apr 2, 2016 07:38

Kwyndig: Sep 23, 2006; Heeeeeey

Helical Nightmares posted:

Another thing that's been bugging me. Why are pdfs often 32 pages? Pathfinder does that consistently and so do other companies. Did someone work out an equation for optimal printing costs?

Printing is typical done in a way where for mass market 32 pages is the minimum number that will get a printer to give you a quote, and then it runs in multiples of 16 pages past that. It doesn't really have anything to do with cost anymore, it's just the way things are done.

Honestly with POD you could run any set of numbers cost effectively, but your binders will have a fit unless you do things in multiples of 16 pages because that's what they're used to.

# ? Apr 2, 2016 16:15

Plutonis: Mar 25, 2011

Western CRPGs suck rear end.

# ? Apr 2, 2016 16:24

DalaranJ: Apr 15, 2008; Yosuke will now die for you.

Helical Nightmares posted:

Granted, the mood and tone is something I'm a total fanboy for, but has anyone played it? How does it compare to 5ed and Flame Princess? Any outstanding novel mechanics I should look out for while reading? How are the expansions?

That's a very good question. Please provide a trip report, tia.

# ? Apr 2, 2016 17:03

Helical Nightmares: Apr 30, 2009

Kwyndig posted:

Printing is typical done in a way where for mass market 32 pages is the minimum number that will get a printer to give you a quote, and then it runs in multiples of 16 pages past that. It doesn't really have anything to do with cost anymore, it's just the way things are done.

Honestly with POD you could run any set of numbers cost effectively, but your binders will have a fit unless you do things in multiples of 16 pages because that's what they're used to.

Interesting. Thanks!

# ? Apr 2, 2016 17:40

Kwyndig: Sep 23, 2006; Heeeeeey

Note: This is also why books will have blank pages at the beginning or end, if you count out all the pages in the book including the blank ones? Multiple of 16.

# ? Apr 2, 2016 18:10

fool of sound: Oct 10, 2012

I've been having a hankering for Mordheim lately. Did the computer game turn out to be any good?

# ? Apr 2, 2016 21:12

Helical Nightmares: Apr 30, 2009

I was thinking about sandboxes and 4x games.

Found the following review for the video game Polaris Sector (which I have not played) and I liked the analysis.

http://explorminate.net/2016/03/22/polaris-sector-review/

quote:

Polaris Sector Review

BY BEN "RL" MARTIN ON MARCH 22, 2016 � ( 15 COMMENTS )
When delivering a new product into the hands of a media-oversaturated audience, timing is everything � and it is fickle. A strong title released at the right time can ride a wave of enthusiasm all the way to the bank. Or, it can find itself smashed by that same wave. C�est la vie.

Polaris Sector, developed by SoftWarWare and published by Slitherine, is right at the crest of that wave. Released March 22nd, this title hit digital shelves before the official launch of 2016�s mammoth space 4X games � Stellaris, Master of Orion, and Endless Space 2. But even beating those games out the gate, can a dark-horse title from a one-man-studio keep up?

One way or another, we�re going to find out. So hold onto your helmet. This spacescape may look familiar, but it�s got some surprises. And I�ve got a feeling you�ll like them.

eXplore

Before jumping into a game of Polaris Sector, players will have to set up their galaxy and choose a race to play. There are a number of galaxy options, including its shape and size, number of factions, star lane density, game difficulty, and victory conditions. Each can have a big impact on how a game plays out.

Polaris Sector implicitly acknowledges the contentious nature of the �star lanes vs. no star lanes� debate by giving players the ability to set star lane density. This means those who like the tactical positioning and choke points of restricted movement can dial down the density, and those who prefer freer movement between stars can increase it.

The different species feature extensive backstories and distinct behaviors that give them a lot of character. The warlike Drills have a hard time making friends. The (house)catlike Sharatar are as unpredictable as one might expect of a race of sapient hermaphroditic felines blissing out on catnip. Those who like to really immerse themselves in a game world will have plenty of fuel for thought.

In contrast to the colorful and diverse backgrounds, the mechanical modifiers for racial customization are somewhat bland. Aside from climate preference and starting technologies, all of the traits are simple bonuses or penalties to some statistic like mining, research, and espionage. They certainly have an impact on gameplay, but the strictly numeric bonuses lack flavor and add little variety to the experience.

Unfortunately, when it comes to eXploring the galaxy itself, Polaris Sector doesn�t really deliver. There just isn�t enough to keep a player excited and engaged. It is great to find an Earthlike planet with +22.80% science output or huge deposits of useful ores or to scout the occasional anomaly and net a tech boost or bonus resources. But star systems start looking very samey very quickly and, with few really gratifying reward points, eXploration feels unengaging and lackluster.

Then there�s the tech tree. Ho boy, is this ever something else. In Polaris Sector, you don�t simply choose a tech to research. Instead, you split your research efforts between two areas: Fundamental Science and Applied Science. As you pursue Fundamental Sciences, you�ll unlock new Applied Sciences. In turn, researching these Applied Sciences unlocks new technologies (things like facilities and ship components). So instead of researching technologies directly, you discover them by reaching certain thresholds in the Fundamental and Applied fields.

Players use a series of sliders to split their research points between the two overarching categories, and then further between the four disciplines of Fundamental Science and the various Applied Sciences they�ve unlocked. If managing all the sliders seems like a nightmare, don�t worry. Players can simply click on a research project, and the game will automatically adjust the sliders to get to that research goal as quickly as possible. This original take on such a staple mechanic provides a lot of fun, fresh experiences and it shows a lot of promise.

Furthermore, a lot of that promise has gone unrealized so far. There is no opportunity cost to changing the sliders, no limit to how far you can push a slider (except always needing at least 10% in Fundamental), and no diminishing returns from funneling all your efforts into one discipline. This means players never have to make any real tradeoffs, compromises, or sacrifices. The bones of the tech system are a wonderful departure from genre conventions, but in practice, it plays out pretty much like any other 4X tech system. You select a tech to focus on, wait until it�s done and then choose another.

During the beta, developer Vladimir �Ufnv� Ufnarovsky announced plans for a science-focused expansion with potentially sweeping changes (unique tech ladders for every species, for example). Fundamentally, there�s a lot of potential in this system and an expansion could really capitalize on that. But as it stands today, the tech system shoots high, comes so close to being extraordinary, but ends up being just good.

eXpand

Expansion in Polaris Sector will be pretty familiar to any 4X gamer. Prospective galactic emperors in Polaris Sector start with one system, a little bit of tech, and a bunch of unexplored star lanes. You have all the technology you need to explore and colonize other planets, and that�s what you will do� Or you will fail miserably.

Colonization is straightforward. You can manually build and command colony ships, but it�s often easier to simply select a planet then click the big �Plan Colonization� button. The AI takes care of building the colony ship at an appropriate facility and loading colonists from a densely-populated planet. There�s also a planet-finder interface that makes sifting through potential colonization targets much quicker.

While the colonization interface is nothing revolutionary, it�s an important part of the game because Polaris Sector is one hell of a target-rich environment. Every sun supports planets, often three or more. And with the right technology (available early on), you can settle every one. Having the ability to sort planets by biome or mineral deposits makes an otherwise maddening task more manageable.

This brings me to one of my gripes with Polaris Sector (and many other space 4X games, as well). Expansion in Polaris Sector has only one rule: colonize as aggressively as you can or fall behind. I�m fine with rewarding investment in expansion, but the cost/benefit calculus is so skewed that infinite expansion is far and away the best thing you can do (other than perhaps rushing a neighbor). While some planets are essentially fruitless, they are far outnumbered by useful worlds, and there�s very little reason not to colonize the latter. The only real limits on your colonization are a few (mostly low-hanging) technologies and how much food you can produce from your arable planets to keep your people fed. In practice, this was never enough to keep me from settling every halfway-decent planet I could find along with plenty of mediocre ones.

But all is not bleak on the spaceward front. After all, games like Distant Worlds have taught us that it�s not the size of the empire that counts, but how you automate it�

eXploit

Both eXploration and eXpansion have their share of hits and misses. It sounds like we�re about due for a clean, solid home run. And, wouldn�t you know it, that�s exactly what the third X provides.

The population model in Polaris Sector greatly departs from the typical for-X-mula. Generally, the citizen is the central unit of production. That citizen can be told to do different things like work on production (in Master of Orion II) or work a specific tile for its output (in Civilization). This output is increased by facilities like an Automated Factory or a Windmill, but it�s the population unit that produces the actual yield.

In contrast, planetary infrastructure is the the focus of Polaris Sector�s economy. A unit of population is only used to run your buildings (or conscripted as ground units). You don�t assign population to be a farmer. Instead, you build a farm, and units of your population are drafted into running it. This may sound like semantics, but it has a big impact on the way the game�s economy works.

Planetary infrastructure is made up of farming, mining, research, and production facilities (plus any necessary habitation facilities or military buildings). These buildings compete with one another for facility slots limited by planet size and biome. This is unusual for 4X games, which usually let you take an �all of the above� approach and build as many facilities as you want (Galactic Civilizations is a notable exception).

In most 4X games, this combination of �all of the above� infrastructure with population-based labor results in gameplay that encourages short-term investment, micromanagement, and min/maxing. Short on food this turn? Move one worker over to farming. Decide you want a warfleet? Move all your researchers over to production. Polaris Sector flips this around. Instead of rewarding short-term finagling, the game emphasizes making smart, long-term decisions regarding your planets� infrastructure. You can still retool them after the fact, but that means tearing down the old facilities to build new ones � an inefficient strategy.

The production system complements another of Polaris Sector�s highlights: strong colony management. Players can tell a planet to focus on agriculture, innovation, industrialization, mining, or balanced economics. The AI handles it from there � and handles it competently. If you want to micromanage a planet, you can take direct control, creating and applying build templates as you see fit. Whichever system you rely on, you can fully direct your planets� development without needing to queue up individual structures every time you settle a new world.

A word of warning: if you like managing extensive planetary build queues, Polaris Sector may ultimately frustrate you. The number of buildings you have access to is really small compared to most games. You don�t start with �food production facility 1� and research all the way up to �food production facility 4�. For the most part, you have your farm, and if you dedicate a world to agriculture, you will build that farm as many times as you can. So if scripting elaborate building chains is your jam, you may have to jam elsewhere.

One oddity of the game�s economic system is its use of currency. That is, there isn�t any. All costs are expressed in minerals. I�ll concede that the way money is used in many 4X games is often bland and uninteresting, but having no liquid currency means it�s harder to judge and compare costs, especially when making trade deals with other species.

Diplomacy itself has a lot of interesting functions. You can agree to varying levels of open borders, ranging from just scouting vessels, to shared surveillance data, to military access and refuelling privileges, to a full-blown military alliance including shared colonial access. That�s right � to get in good with someone, you need to be willing to compromise your territorial integrity. Of course, this also means you can settle in their systems.

There�s one more facet of eXploitation to cover: espionage. Espionage was a late addition to the beta, so I�ve only spent a little while playing with it. In that short time, I�ve discovered that 1) it�s interesting, 2) it�s important, and 3) it�s innovative. Instead of recruitable spies, Polaris Sector features spy ships. Loaded out with advanced equipment like cloaking devices and stellar energy converters, they�re a big investment, but can yield some excellent returns.

On top of the usual espionage options like sabotage and tech stealing, spies can uncover a wealth of valuable information. For example, you can always see your enemies� fleets on the map, but you don�t know their numbers or how they�re equipped. Your spies can reveal all of that information. They also tell you if that planet your neighbors just grabbed right outside your borders is a simple farming world or if it�s being turned into an industrial/military powerhouse.

Counterespionage also has a fun angle to it. When a spy�s cover is blown, the spied-upon may choose to reveal it, possibly throwing it out by force or shooting it down. But instead, they may also choose to secretly feed misinformation to the spy. Players can control the nature of the misinformation to fit their agenda. Mustering a fleet at your enemy�s border? Make their spy think the system is a weakly-defended economic powerhouse. Need to keep them away from a high-value target? Tell them it�s a barren wasteland.

The espionage system has a lot of promise, but I feel like I can�t quite do it justice with the short time I�ve been able to spend with it. Stay tuned for a future Audible eXtension podcast if you want to know more.

eXterminate

Like many 4X games, Polaris Sector is largely a wargame. The diplomacy, espionage, technology, and colony management systems are all good, but ultimately the most meaningful interactions with other factions will be on the battlefield.

....

And there is more.

# ? Apr 3, 2016 15:20

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

So this might be a stupid question, but I'm going to ask it anyway:

I've had some fairly good success scheduling weekly TRPG games with you good folk on the internet, and it got me thinking about doing the same but for video games. Like, let's play a game of compstomp Age of Empires at this time and day, or lets meet every week for 2 hours to slowly work through an RPG cooperatively.

It never really occurred to me, but does that make sense? Am I just overthinking this?

# ? Apr 5, 2016 18:27

Drone: Aug 22, 2003; Incredible machine

gradenko_2000 posted:

So this might be a stupid question, but I'm going to ask it anyway:

I've had some fairly good success scheduling weekly TRPG games with you good folk on the internet, and it got me thinking about doing the same but for video games. Like, let's play a game of compstomp Age of Empires at this time and day, or lets meet every week for 2 hours to slowly work through an RPG cooperatively.

It never really occurred to me, but does that make sense? Am I just overthinking this?

Goons have been doing this successfully for weekly Europa Universalis 4 for ages, I don't see why you couldn't do this for basically any other game either.

I'm just now getting on this whole Discord thing, would that make it easier? Or maybe just ask people in the #badwrongfun ?

# ? Apr 5, 2016 18:29

Drone: Aug 22, 2003; Incredible machine

So I've been thinking about putting together a little "core" packet of a few of the various D&D systems. Basically my goal is to have a list or collection of books for each edition that is the most "complete" and least "broken and bloated" as possible for that edition, that I can point to and say, "for the best and most complete experience with <edition>, use those books". Yes I know that invariably all D&D editions have been broken and bloated at some point, I just want to be able to distill it down.

What would they be for 2e/Pathfinder/4e? I never played 2e and have no experience with it beyond the Baldur's Gate games, but I would assume that the Core 3 rulebooks (PHB, MM, DMG) would be where it's at, though that leaves out a lot of the extra campaign settings/etc that give 2e its flavor.

For Pathfinder and 4e I'm a lot more unsure. 4e has like five books called Player Handbook, let alone the various other class supplements/etc. And Pathfinder just seems like a wasteland of scattered material unless you just use the SRD.

# ? Apr 6, 2016 08:27

My Lovely Horse: Aug 21, 2010

4E: Rules Compendium for the core rules with all errata bakes in, and Monster Vault for iconic monsters with good math and design. Character options is where it gets a bit tricky.

If you get the offline character builder, CBLoader and custom files, you can have every option ever published in one place, but that's the opposite of "least bloated." You can uncheck certain sources in the CB though, which still makes it a good thing to have. As for the sources themselves, I'd go PHB 1/2/3 and the various ____ Power books. More basic, go PHBs only, super core basic would be PHB 1/2. That's my idea of the core of 4E; Essentials (Heroes of the Fallen Lands and all that stuff) sounds like it would be it but it's design muddles what I like about 4E too much.

For my current 4E game I did:
- PHB 1/2/3
- all _____ Power
- all Adventurer's Vault
- all races and classes from Eberron, Dark Sun and Forgotten Realms, plus feats and items that have them as a prerequisite

In retrospect, I'd ditch Adventurer's Vault from this setup. They only add items and good lord does 4E have too many items.

# ? Apr 6, 2016 08:46

potatocubed: Jul 26, 2012; *rathian noises*

Drone posted:

For Pathfinder and 4e I'm a lot more unsure. 4e has like five books called Player Handbook, let alone the various other class supplements/etc. And Pathfinder just seems like a wasteland of scattered material unless you just use the SRD.

It's been a long time since I Pathfound, but I would say the core book, all the official bestiaries, and whatever that supplement was that added the inquisitor, witch, gunslinger, etc.

It's been even longer since I AD&Ded, but you're probably fine with PHB, DMG, MM, and the Psionics Handbook (which is necessary to fully use some of the creatures in the MM). If you're running in a pre-existing campaign setting, get the core box set for your setting of choice.

# ? Apr 6, 2016 08:57

Drone: Aug 22, 2003; Incredible machine

My Lovely Horse posted:

4E: Rules Compendium for the core rules with all errata bakes in, and Monster Vault for iconic monsters with good math and design. Character options is where it gets a bit tricky.

If you get the offline character builder, CBLoader and custom files, you can have every option ever published in one place, but that's the opposite of "least bloated." You can uncheck certain sources in the CB though, which still makes it a good thing to have. As for the sources themselves, I'd go PHB 1/2/3 and the various ____ Power books. More basic, go PHBs only, super core basic would be PHB 1/2. That's my idea of the core of 4E; Essentials (Heroes of the Fallen Lands and all that stuff) sounds like it would be it but it's design muddles what I like about 4E too much.

For my current 4E game I did:
- PHB 1/2/3
- all _____ Power
- all Adventurer's Vault
- all races and classes from Eberron, Dark Sun and Forgotten Realms, plus feats and items that have them as a prerequisite

In retrospect, I'd ditch Adventurer's Vault from this setup. They only add items and good lord does 4E have too many items.

By "all ____ Power", you mean the sequels too I assume, right? Googling it, there are apparently multiple Martial Power books for instance. (Also fuuuuuck, used 4e books are dirt cheap on Amazon.de)

I wasn't on board the 4e train back when it was a current edition, but isn't the Rules Compendium that you mentioned part of that controversial Essentials line?

# ? Apr 6, 2016 09:00

My Lovely Horse: Aug 21, 2010

I guess! I honestly haven't looked at the Power books specifically, it's more that nothing from them ever struck me as badly designed, and they add a few neat character options (like an Archer Warlord). It really depends a bit on how you present the sources: if you want to hand players books you're better off sticking to PHBs only before you whomp a whole stack on the table, if you're using the builder, might as well chuck 'em in.

You can run a perfectly good game and build a perfectly good character with PHB options only, so if maximum unbloatidity is your goal, stick to the PHBs.

Rules Compendium and Monster Vault are part of Essentials but everything that makes me dislike the line is contained within class design and items, and those books don't have any of that. Plus, most of the errata to the basic rules were extremely necessary, and like I said, the RC has them baked in. Same with Monster Vault - most monsters before MM3 weren't very well designed and had flawed numbers, and Monster Vault fixes that for a bunch of basic and iconic creatures.

# ? Apr 6, 2016 09:20

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

A "best-of" collection of 4th Edition would include, at the minimum:

Player's Handbook 1 - all the basics
Player's Handbook 2 - the new armors introduced here are necessary for proper gear scaling, and the new classes are very good
Monster Vault - has all of the iconic monsters and with a comprehensive level spread, but with the corrected monster math from Monster Manual 3

It gets a little bit more complicated after that.

Dungeon Master's Guide 1 has great advice for running and managing games (any TRPG really, not even just D&D), but all of the mechanical stuff is out of date and needs to be disregarded. The DMG 2 also has some excellent adventure plotting advice (written by Robin D Laws of Pelgrane Press no less), but again you can't use most of its rules directly.

Essentials Dungeon Master's Kit OR Rules Compendium has the updated mechanics rules like reasonable skill check DCs, and the easier to use, randomly-rolled treasure system, but its all dry mechanics and doesn't have the practical advice that DMGs 1 and 2 have.

The advantage of the Essentials Dungeon Master's Kit specifically is that it also comes with the Reavers of Harkenwold adventure, which I'll get into later. The advantage of the Rules Compendium is that it's cheaper since it specifically only covers rules.

The Dark Sun Campaign Setting book has the rules for Inherent Bonuses, which I'd consider critical to ensure that players are never screwed over on their gear. Player's Handbook 3 has the Versatile Expertise feat, which is a critical feat tax. Heroes of the Fallen Lands OR Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms has the Improved Defenses feat, which is a critical feat tax; they also have Expertise feats for specific weapons, as well as the Melee Training feat, which is a critical feat tax for several builds.

Technically, those books in the preceding paragraph aren't necessary if you're going to use the 1-2 pages in them for the feats and inherent bonus rules and nothing else, but that's the specific reference.

For adventures, you're going to want to do a cycle of:

1. The Slaying Stone
2. The Reavers of Harkenwold (which comes with the Essentials Dungeon Master's Kit, which is why the Kit is an option over just the Rules Compendium)
3. The Cairn of the Winter King
4. Madness at Gardmore Abbey

That will take characters from level 1 all the way to level 8, which is arguably the sweet spot of the system, and while using the best-written adventures of the lot.

# ? Apr 6, 2016 09:29

Siivola: Dec 23, 2012

The DM's Kit doesn't contain all the rules, I think, and it's poorly indexed to boot.

# ? Apr 6, 2016 10:25

Lemon-Lime: Aug 6, 2009

There's no reason not to get the Rules Compendium, and there's no reason to get PHB1 for the rules.

# ? Apr 6, 2016 10:32

Elfgames: Sep 11, 2011; Fun Shoe

I really wish we had gotten books like "complete martal" for 4e that had all the martial classes and class specific feats oh also race books other than dragonborn

# ? Apr 6, 2016 11:03

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

At the bare minimum, you still need the PHB 1 for the equipment lists, which aren't duplicated anywhere else except in the Heroes of ... Essentials PHBs.

# ? Apr 6, 2016 11:10

Drone: Aug 22, 2003; Incredible machine

Now I get why they made all of these resources just available on the D&D Insider subscription thingie. I want to like 4e real bad but I feel this version in particular has tons of "go to this book for this specific thing but do not use that book for <this specific thing>, instead borrow elements from these two other books" :psyduck:

It sets my OCD off like no other.

Like, "please do not use the Player's Handbook as if it were a Player's Handbook, use this other thing!"

# ? Apr 6, 2016 11:52

Lemon-Lime: Aug 6, 2009

Yeah. In practice, it boils down to "buy the Rules Compendium and Monster Vault and use the offline character builder so you have all the player options in one location," thanks to Insider + fan support.

# ? Apr 6, 2016 11:57

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Yeah as a DM I just use the Rules Compendium and the Monster Vault, and leave the players to create their characters however they want.

# ? Apr 6, 2016 11:59

Helical Nightmares: Apr 30, 2009

For Pathfinder would you throw in Ultimate Campaign into the core or not.

# ? Apr 6, 2016 12:06

My Lovely Horse: Aug 21, 2010

Drone posted:

Now I get why they made all of these resources just available on the D&D Insider subscription thingie. I want to like 4e real bad but I feel this version in particular has tons of "go to this book for this specific thing but do not use that book for <this specific thing>, instead borrow elements from these two other books" It sets my OCD off like no other.

Like, "please do not use the Player's Handbook as if it were a Player's Handbook, use this other thing!"

Yeah, if you haven't watched that stuff develop over years, it does seem a bit :psyduck:

But on the other hand: accepted standard is to give out Melee Training and the expertise and defense feats for free as a houserule anyway, so you might as well present them and Inherent Bonuses as a houserules attachment with no real need to include their sourcebooks in the basics package.

e: I have to say, Monster Vault gets pretty barren once you hit epic levels.

# ? Apr 6, 2016 17:51

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

My Lovely Horse posted:

e: I have to say, Monster Vault gets pretty barren once you hit epic levels.

Yeah. MM3 is, IIRC, better at this, but the support for Epic 4e was never stellar.

I am not entirely sure, myself, that normal monster-building guidelines are sufficient to challenge an Epic Tier party. I mean, the math is pretty okay, but you need to get downright creative to challenge them.

# ? Apr 6, 2016 18:17

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

dwarf74 posted:

I am not entirely sure, myself, that normal monster-building guidelines are sufficient to challenge an Epic Tier party. I mean, the math is pretty okay, but you need to get downright creative to challenge them.

Yeah, you'd have to crank up the damage to something like a [5d12+16] danage at-will for a level 25, whereas an MM3 level Drow Archmage has an at-will for [4d8+15].

And even then you'd still have to be creative insofar as getting past all the interrupts and triggers anyway.

# ? Apr 6, 2016 18:27

drrockso20: May 6, 2013; Has Not Actually Done Cocaine

There's a reason why Epic Level D&D never really works out, either the PC's end up too strong and clown everything effortlessly, or you end up with ridiculous overpowered enemies that no sane party could reasonably beat(like Neutronium Golems)

# ? Apr 6, 2016 21:09

My Lovely Horse: Aug 21, 2010

For 4E in particular you can add to the list that if you do manage to balance everything right, your combats will take hours and with all the interrupts and triggers you'll lose track of whose turn it is.

I prefer playing in a good level range and reflavouring the setting and enemies to be as epic as you like. Be a royal army squad on special assignment at level 15, be legendary heroes out for one last hurrah at level 2, it's all in how you play and contextualize it.

My Lovely Horse fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Apr 7, 2016

# ? Apr 6, 2016 21:19

Yawgmoth: Sep 10, 2003; This post is cursed!

drrockso20 posted:

There's a reason why Epic Level D&D never really works out, either the PC's end up too strong and clown everything effortlessly, or you end up with ridiculous overpowered enemies that no sane party could reasonably beat(like Neutronium Golems)

I find that there are quite a number of video game boss gimmicks that can be cribbed and easily converted to whatever D&D edition you like to make enemies that challenge an epic or near-epic party without having an effortless fight for one side. Also, if you're in 3.5, the Paragon template is amazing for sticking on low-level enemies and making them decent threats. Or at least interesting/competent minions.

# ? Apr 6, 2016 21:20

Wrestlepig: Feb 25, 2011; my mum says im cool; Toilet Rascal

Is anyone here entering the 200 word RPG challenge?

# ? Apr 7, 2016 03:00

oriongates: Mar 14, 2013; Validate Me!

There's been some discussion of it over in the Games Writing thread. I threw together a thing myself: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rw4SJGpYNNOV1eQPFBugTmUnqsfQSe7l2blbZ7zB7nk/edit?usp=sharing

# ? Apr 7, 2016 03:03

Plutonis: Mar 25, 2011

That's 200 too many.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 03:04

Evil Mastermind: Apr 28, 2008

chaos rhames posted:

Is anyone here entering the 200 word RPG challenge?

I did, yeah. I'm not expecting to win, but I wanted to see if I could put something together.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 03:09

Alien Rope Burn: Dec 5, 2004; _{I wanna be a saikyo HERO!}

I'd really like to if I can think of a drat thing.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 03:32

potatocubed: Jul 26, 2012; *rathian noises*

Questions for the Roll20 users among you: How normal is it to use it without video? And how about without video or audio, just communicating in the text chat?

(I'm investigating gaming options, and right now I own neither webcam nor microphone.)

# ? Apr 7, 2016 10:46

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# ? May 13, 2024 19:40

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

potatocubed posted:

Questions for the Roll20 users among you: How normal is it to use it without video? And how about without video or audio, just communicating in the text chat?

(I'm investigating gaming options, and right now I own neither webcam nor microphone.)

I've run all my games through roll20, and I've only had the webcam activated once, and only because the other users had it on. Every other time has been just through audio.

I tried running games through text chat, and it's a lot slower and I'd avoid it unless my only other option was PbP.

# ? Apr 7, 2016 10:51

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > TG Chat/Cooking Thread 2016

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