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shadok posted:Alice > Eliot > Quentin > Penny. Cool, thanks.  Odds are I will not (make) have time (or enough interest to get the story in two versions) for these. Penny still has the advantage of a (semi-)unique inborn set of tricks though that the others (essentially) cant match?
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Apr 4, 2016 13:34
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In the books he does have the whole thing about being able to innately travel between dimensions but they don't classify it as a "traveler" or anything like that. Really though in the books Penny is barely a character. He's mainly around just to be a dick to Quentin and doesn't actually get a lot of character depth.
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Apr 4, 2016 14:05
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FRINGE posted:Penny still has the advantage of a (semi-)unique inborn set of tricks though that the others (essentially) cant match? Kinda. As noted above, the whole concept of "Traveler" being a thing for Magicians is new to the TV show. There's no equivalent in the books and book-Penny isn't psychic. Book stuff that isn't really a spoiler because the show is doing things differently but I'll tag it for people who don't want to know the book stuff: At Brakebill's, after Alice and Quentin move up to Second Year, Penny attacks Quentin, punches him in the face. The three of them were in a study group together but Penny felt left behind as Alice and Quentin developed a friendship - from his perspective, they abandoned him and were laughing at him behind his back when he failed. After that, he pretty much disappears from the story. Years later, after graduation, he reappears seeking out the Physical Kids who are hanging out together in New York City, and we learn what he's been up to in flashback. It turns out that in Second Year, when they figure out each student's Discipline, Penny's is identified as "travel between alternate worlds" which is so completely new that there is no curriculum for it at Brakebill's and no professor qualified to teach it. Penny is put down as "independent study", and assigned a teacher to help him try and figure it out from scratch. None of the other students are aware of what he's working on. Eventually he figures out enough of the spellwork to travel, and he winds up in the Neitherlands. He is able to go there at will, but can't take anyone else with him (or teach them the magic to do it) and he can't go any further - the fountains won't work for him. He explores the Neitherlands pretty thoroughly, spending more than a year there, and realizes that if the Neitherlands exist then Fillory is probably real as well, something nobody else even suspects yet. It's Penny who then finds the Chatwins' button and realizes what it is: a magical tool that will let him a) bring as many people as he wants to the Neitherlands, and b) allow them all to travel onwards through the fountains, including the Fillory fountain. He doesn't test it himself, he brings it straight to the Physical Kids and invites them all to come to Fillory with him. Note that unlike in the show, the characters have no idea at this point that there is any connection between the Beast and Fillory, or even that Fillory is anything but a fictional place. The Beast attacked a magic class at Brakebill's, killed a student, and buggered off, never to return. Even Penny isn't 100% sure that Fillory is real. He's the most eager to go there - more so than Quentin, even, but he doesn't want to go alone.
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Apr 4, 2016 14:56
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And I believe he shows up with the button right after Quentin just cheated on Alice and everyone feels like poo poo and wants to die. Show has gotten better recently but it was really dumb how Travelers are hearing this noise and they all resort to shooting themselves in the head and poo poo and then the Brakebills infirmary is like "oh yeah put this thing on your neck, done."
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Apr 4, 2016 15:32
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muscles like this? posted:In the books he does have the whole thing about being able to innately travel between dimensions but they don't classify it as a "traveler" or anything like that. Really though in the books Penny is barely a character. He's mainly around just to be a dick to Quentin and doesn't actually get a lot of character depth. That really says more about Penny than it does Quentin. The first book, IIRC, is entirely from Quentin's POV. Since Quentin is a little afraid of Penny you get the idea that he's this hardcore punk, but by the end of the series my mental image of Penny changed to be this extreme poseur, just a chubby white kid pretending he's hardcore. muscles like this? posted:Well the big difference is that in the books Quentin is actually a really good magician, instead of the middling one on the show. I never really got that idea. In the books, just like in the show Quentin is a decidedly average magician, who happens to surround himself with exceptional ones. The only thing that makes him special is that he's the intersection between every other person in the series, that's what makes him the "chosen one". Alice and Penny might hit it off, but then it's just the two of them against the world, because let's be honest even TV Penny isn't a social butterfly. muscles like this? posted:In the books he does have the whole thing about being able to innately travel between dimensions but they don't classify it as a "traveler" or anything like that. Really though in the books Penny is barely a character. He's mainly around just to be a dick to Quentin and doesn't actually get a lot of character depth. Don't they call his specialty "Travelling" in the books" I don't feel like they changed much from that angle. edit: eh, I'm probably wrong. but I never got the idea that Traveling was completely new in the books, just really really rare. Like, no other living Travelers rare. egg tats fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Apr 4, 2016 |
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Apr 4, 2016 15:33
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senae posted:Don't they call his specialty "Travelling" in the books" I don't feel like they changed much from that angle. In book-Penny's own words: quote:"As far as we could determine it was an entirely new Discipline. Not that I was the first person ever to study the subject, but I was the first to have a special aptitude for it... The spellcraft was extremely involved, and I had to improvise a lot of it. I can tell you, a lot of what's in the canon on this stuff is way off base. Way off base. They're not seeing the whole picture, and the part of it they are seeing is by far the least important part." Try to imagine Arjun Gupta saying that as TV-Penny. It just does not work at all.
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Apr 4, 2016 16:05
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shadok posted:
Yeah, in the attempt to make Brakebills and its students a little more realistic, they changed most of the characters from being super studious nerds. And they tried to make Quentin more nerdy while everyone else is super cool. Combined with his being a mediocre magician, it seems like Quentin's "Chosen One" ability is just that he memorized the Fillory books.
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Apr 4, 2016 16:14
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I share muscles like this?'s opinion that Quentin is only "mediocre" when compared to prodigies like Alice and Eliot. On the bell curve of the usual Brakebills student/graduate, he's way above average. Edit: I'm talking about the books. On the TV show there hasn't really been anything to indicate Quentin's relative skill level. shadok fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Apr 4, 2016 |
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Apr 4, 2016 16:18
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In the books Quentin is definitely way above average but had to work tirelessly to get there. One of two students to skip a year at Brakebills, one of just a couple to complete the Antarctica race to the south pole thing, how could he be considered average? Still though, there's a big gap between him and Alice and a big gap between him and real masters.
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Apr 4, 2016 16:40
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People here consider Quentin mediocre or terrible because they identify with him.
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Apr 4, 2016 19:49
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The Janet joke was pretty good.
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Apr 5, 2016 02:39
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Hey it's Josh!
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Apr 5, 2016 02:44
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There you go, Josh. Also, "Thank god for Hitler"
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Apr 5, 2016 02:44
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Josh!  Elliott with the carrot was incredible. I'm looking forward to the final episode of the season actually being set in Fillory. And I'm glad we didn't see that scene with Julia.
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Apr 5, 2016 05:52
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who the gently caress drinks triple sec straight unless it's like Cointreau but even then though
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Apr 5, 2016 07:51
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Cat Army 
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Mouse Dresser posted:And I'm glad we didn't see that scene with Julia. i wonder what they meant when they said they weren't afraid to 'shy away' from certain scenes. anyways, i'm glad.
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Apr 5, 2016 08:02
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Whoops! Wrong thread.
Gonz fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Apr 5, 2016 |
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Apr 5, 2016 08:06
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I was so confused for about 2 seconds reading the posts above.
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Apr 5, 2016 08:08
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Well, between the librarian calling Margo "Janet" and the number of retries being fairly low (I think Jane looped a lot more times than that in the book, right?) that was pretty much as close a confirmation as we'll get that this is one of Jane's retries prior to what happens in the book. Jane dying can probably be undone or explained away somewhere. I like that Julia is tagging along on the trip to Fillory, and I like that they showed us a bit more of her friendship with Quentin, which didn't really come through in the books on account of Quentin being a cock.
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Apr 5, 2016 08:19
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You know say what you will about this show but it's actually pretty loving funny. Operation Die Fuhrer and battle magician Hitler was weirdly hilarious
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Apr 5, 2016 08:32
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I'm much happier now that they've conceded that the show is a different loop from the books.
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Apr 5, 2016 16:53
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Cast Iron Brick posted:I'm much happier now that they've conceded that the show is a different loop from the books. Yeah, that was such a nice line that was a good joke for the book readers. And a nice little  to those of us who were bitching about the differences.
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Apr 5, 2016 16:56
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Good episode. The show really rocks when it finds its footing. I'm way too excited for Josh. I can't believe they still worked in a "loving things on another plane of existence" joke without it being Teletubbies. I like that while the others are the first into the pool to Fillory, our point of view shows Quentin there first. I'm not sure where S2 is going to go, but I certainly want to see High King Eliot for at least one episode.
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Apr 5, 2016 17:23
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Argue posted:Well, between the librarian calling Margo "Janet" and the number of retries being fairly low (I think Jane looped a lot more times than that in the book, right?) that was pretty much as close a confirmation as we'll get that this is one of Jane's retries prior to what happens in the book. Jane dying can probably be undone or explained away somewhere. Cast Iron Brick posted:I'm much happier now that they've conceded that the show is a different loop from the books. I don't think this can possibly be true. Otherwise the TV show must necessarily end with a full reset button, which is always the worst way to end anything.  I'm much happier simply accepting that this is "The Magicians", a television show with a story loosely inspired by some books by Lev Grossman. I think that lets them tell a better, more interesting TV story than a strict book adaptation would. Stuff like calling Margo "Janet" is just a fun Easter egg nod to book readers. I'm guessing there are book purists out there losing their loving minds today, though. I wonder if they have a big central forum. I kind of feel like they're more likely to have sad, individual tumblrs with a lot of anime-looking drawings of Quentin.
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Apr 5, 2016 18:23
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We don't have to see the reset button. Jane doesn't say the book is the only scenario where they succeeded, it's just the best one. The show is clearly not the best possible scenario.
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Apr 5, 2016 19:06
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Mouse Dresser posted:And I'm glad we didn't see that scene with Julia. yet...
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Apr 5, 2016 19:31
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Na'at posted:yet... True, though it'd be pretty weird with the timeline. They beat the Beast, Quentin winds up in a coma, wakes and fucks around as king and bigger magic while Julia goes back to the real world and gets Reynard'ed and then shows up at Quentin's office job just to go back to Fillory? I mean, they could do it, but it's going to be a weird jumble. They did say they weren't shying away from "certain scenes" but that remains to be seen. As much as it's a cringeworthy bit in the book, if they don't do it they'll be undoing a lot of Julia's character. Right now clawing her way through hedge magic just to show up with the gang and save the day isn't super cathartic.
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Apr 5, 2016 20:43
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I'm wondering if Julia's account of what happened when they summoned Our Lady Underground is true. I find it suspicious that it happened offscreen. And if it isn't true, is Julia aware of it?
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Apr 5, 2016 20:49
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Edit: ^^^ Now you've got me rethinking it! It is curious that we didn't see the full invocation. And she seemed pretty out of it when Quentin arrived. Also, all of the FTB folks were gone...Mortanis posted:True, though it'd be pretty weird with the timeline. They beat the Beast, Quentin winds up in a coma, wakes and fucks around as king and bigger magic while Julia goes back to the real world and gets Reynard'ed and then shows up at Quentin's office job just to go back to Fillory? Yeah, especially since they had the goddess already show up and grant everyone's requests. They dipped into the scene with quick flashbacks, but it was the same goddess from her dream. I am just so loving excited for Josh. 
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Apr 5, 2016 20:50
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Mouse Dresser posted:Now you've got me rethinking it! It is curious that we didn't see the full invocation. And she seemed pretty out of it when Quentin arrived. Also, all of the FTB folks were gone... I think it would be a really good way to introduce a twist into the TV show, to have Julia either conceal or be unaware of what really happened. Also wanted to say that I thought Arturo del Puerto really stood out as the hermit dude. I'm not even sure why, exactly, I just thought he did a great job with his little part.
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Apr 5, 2016 21:14
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muscles like this? posted:Well the big difference is that in the books Quentin is actually a really good magician, instead of the middling one on the show. muscles like this? posted:In the books he does have the whole thing about being able to innately travel between dimensions but they don't classify it as a "traveler" or anything like that. Really though in the books Penny is barely a character. He's mainly around just to be a dick to Quentin and doesn't actually get a lot of character depth. I'm looking forward to/dreading his inevitable fall since Penny's probably become a fan-favorite by now. senae posted:That really says more about Penny than it does Quentin. The first book, IIRC, is entirely from Quentin's POV. Since Quentin is a little afraid of Penny you get the idea that he's this hardcore punk, but by the end of the series my mental image of Penny changed to be this extreme poseur, just a chubby white kid pretending he's hardcore. coyo7e fucked around with this message at 01:25 on Apr 6, 2016 |
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Apr 5, 2016 22:41
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Julia and Co getting ready to invoke a god and then them all being gone on mysterious "missions" with a euphoric Julia insisting everything is perfect is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay suspicious. I'd bet money that story ain't over and we're going to find out some poo poo. I mean, the episode started with the god's follower going "be careful what you ask for." This has "monkey's paw" at best written all over it and "repressed/drugged out horror" at worst. not sure how Fillory or the Beast play out in the finale. If they have any kind of resolution or just get deeper in. But I assume Julia's god will either tie in with them in S2 or become the new main threat. Like, I could see Julia saving the day against the Beast with some jacked up magic, someone in Fillory commenting on the kind of magic she used or the whole "god" thing leading the Brakesbill crew to question it, Penny getting really aggressive about finding out what happened to Kady, and then some big, horrific reveal. Part of me is even wondering if that's actually Julia.
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Apr 5, 2016 23:27
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coyo7e posted:The interesting thing for me was that in the source text, Penny and Quentin's fight is basically pretty even. Quentin goes all rageface and headbutts Penny and busts his nose, and the faculty all go on this stupid "well you are to blame as much as he is, otherwise why would you have headbutted him?" Even though Q completely blacked out most of the fight, *both* of them ended up beaten to poo poo in the infirmary and Q is the only one who actually comes out of it a little more threatening than before the fight, ie "[spoiler]If you get me kicked out of Brakebills, Penny, I will loving kill you." He also reiterates that point at least once more - that he will straight murder a fool who costs him that much. Penny is just drug-addled and/or nuts. This show has gotten quite enjoyable but everything you guys keep posting from the books makes them sound like absolute horseshit that I'd have been embarrassed to read when I was 13, let alone as an adult.
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Apr 5, 2016 23:39
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Yeah, I don't want to knock something you guys love and I've never given a chance, but man... Those spoilers sure are... Something. Fast Luck posted:And I believe he shows up with the button right after Quentin just cheated on Alice and everyone feels like poo poo and wants to die. I mean A) I didn't get the impression it was some approved Brakesbill policy. If I remember it right it was that one teacher going off book and breaking some rules based on whatever poo poo she had been through in the past. There's definitely more to the story between Penny and that one teacher. They've teased sexual tension in the past but there also seems to be some hint that she's got more of a connection than she's letting on. B) Even if it was a widely known Brakesbill thing Alice's mom's boyfriend was some alien who presumably doesn't have any real direct connection to the school and Penny's mentor was some hermit who seemed to detest the school/magic community. So it's not like either was likely to call up the Brakesbill Dean and ask their advice on how to stop the voice they've been hearing most of their lives. C) Plus travelers are basically implied to be depressed mental patients self medicating with booze and drugs because an evil force keeps talking to them and driving them insane. So suicide does seem like a kind of in character response. And, I mean, half the show is about magic, drinking, drugs, or sex to cover up that they're all vaguely suicidally depressed. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Apr 5, 2016 |
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Apr 5, 2016 23:50
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This talk about the book has got me wanting to reread it. So much fun stuff. STAC Goat posted:Julia and Co getting ready to invoke a god and then them all being gone on mysterious "missions" with a euphoric Julia insisting everything is perfect is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay suspicious. I'd bet money that story ain't over and we're going to find out some poo poo. I mean, the episode started with the god's follower going "be careful what you ask for." This has "monkey's paw" at best written all over it and "repressed/drugged out horror" at worst. I was thinking the same thing. The "can't unring a bell" thing had to be foreshadowing something. Also, I could have sworn I saw a twig coming out of Julia's shirt when she hugged Quentin in her room , but I may just be imagining things.
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Apr 6, 2016 01:22
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The first time I watched ep 12, I totally missed the fact that Alice's dress is basically a vagina dentata 
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Apr 6, 2016 02:09
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The other weird thing regarding timing and the finale is the crew still being in school. Like, first years. By the time they show up in Fillory in the book they've been out for awhile. Are they going to time skip three years and graduate everyone? What about Quentin and his coma? Beyond that, are they going to drastically gently caress the story to keep Penny around?
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Apr 6, 2016 03:03
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I have absolutely no idea where they're going to end season 1, and I could easily see them stretching out all 13 episodes of season 2 over the last part of the first book. Or just ditching the books entirely and writing a whole new story from here.
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Apr 6, 2016 04:17
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mastajake posted:I was thinking the same thing. The "can't unring a bell" thing had to be foreshadowing something. Also, I could have sworn I saw a twig coming out of Julia's shirt when she hugged Quentin in her room , but I may just be imagining things.
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Apr 6, 2016 04:33
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Ah! The guy who plays Josh, Trevor Einhorn, was on "Mad Men." He played one of the creative artists in the agency. That's why he looked familiar.
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Apr 6, 2016 05:02
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