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Yeah but it's pretty much exactly the same as the source material. You should know what you're getting into.
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Apr 6, 2016 00:12
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Whedon's whole "You can always count on me to kill someone as a dramatic rallying tool" is pretty hacky in how often he uses it but it's not like he invented it or anything. He just flooded the scifi/fantasy genre with versions of it and then got put in charge of the biggest comic book movie ever and did it again. corn in the bible posted:if you don't want pointless deaths to create cheap heat for a villain then why are you watching comic book shows Yeah, not for nothing but if you're going to complain about characters being killed off I don't think Arrow or The Walking Dead are any less qualified to weave it into their world than Game of Thrones. One show is about costume vigilantes who routinely engage in life and death action so it stands to reason someone will die every now and then. And the other one is about a zombie apocalypse. The Walking Dead is so much about killing characters that the comic devotes like a quarter of its pages to a running kill count. Plus, call me naive but I think both recent implied deaths on Arrow and Walking Dead theoretically serve a purpose. But we won't know until they actually play out or we even find out who died. Lycus posted:Oh. Welp, that's not it. It doesn't really cost HBO much to throw some talk show on the air instead of another GoT rerun, does it? I mean, it's 2016, does airing GoT two or three times in the same night even serve a purpose with DVRs, On demand, and HBO Go? I imagine HBO just saw the market for show discussion and decided it's an easy way to keep more eyes and maybe control some of the coverage/media/discussion/spoilers the way Talking Dead tries to. Chris Hardwick's job is basically to show up after something controversial happens and try and direct viewers in the direction the show wants them to go with it. He's basically AMC's spin/media director.
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Apr 6, 2016 00:12
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Whedon didn't kill anybody in his run on Xmen.
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Apr 6, 2016 00:12
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Crazy, wild opinion: Joss Whedon isn't loving awful
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Apr 6, 2016 00:14
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Escobarbarian posted:Crazy, wild opinion: Joss Whedon isn't loving awful I don't think he's awful. In fact I've enjoyed more of his work than I didn't, and even in the stuff I didn't enjoy there were elements that I liked and moments or ideas I thought were great or incredibly compelling. But he's not perfect either and every writer/director/auteur has their bad habits or flaws. It's not bashing the guy to criticize an element of his work.
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Apr 6, 2016 00:18
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I think a lot of people have allowed their hatred of Whedon's fanbase to color their opinion of him.
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Apr 6, 2016 00:19
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He's a bad writer, to be sure doesn't mean he's not an entertaining one, or that even as a bad writer he can't write good material
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Apr 6, 2016 00:31
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zoux posted:Whedon didn't kill anybody in his run on Xmen. In fact he unkilled the best X-Man.
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Apr 6, 2016 00:50
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Now he did make Kitty Pride a bit, ah, inaccessible.
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Apr 6, 2016 00:51
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It's not even like he killed a lot of significant characters on Buffy either. Buffy died, but because the whole season was leading up to a lose-lose scenario with her and Dawn. Tara and Jenny Calendar are probably the most memorable, but they were both recurring characters and a lot of plot wheels were set in motion with their deaths. Anya is probably the laziest one because he just had to kill someone in the finale. That's 4 deaths in 7 seasons (one never meant to stick) in a setting where death due to supernatural forces is a constant factor of life. Durr, forgot Joyce, who spent half a season battling cancer only to lose to illustrate helplessness in the face of the mundanity of human mortality. hope and vaseline fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Apr 6, 2016 |
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Apr 6, 2016 01:47
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death in episodic monster of the week shows is bad because then you can't have stories with those characters anymore
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Apr 6, 2016 01:50
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hope and vaseline posted:It's not even like he killed a lot of significant characters on Buffy either. Buffy died, but because the whole season was leading up to a lose-lose scenario with her and Dawn. Tara and Jenny Calendar are probably the most memorable, but they were both recurring characters and a lot of plot wheels were set in motion with their deaths. Anya is probably the laziest one because he just had to kill someone in the finale. That's 4 deaths in 7 seasons (one never meant to stick) in a setting where death due to supernatural forces is a constant factor of life. You're forgetting Angel and Spike on Buffy (as well as several long-recurring characters like Jonathan, and Buffy's first death in season 1) and the majority of the characters on Angel. Wesley, Fred, Lindsay, Lilah, Doyle, Darla, Cordelia, the list goes on... Mentioning only the deaths that "stuck" is misleading since the whole point of the discussion was that death was rendered meaningless (or at least a lot less emotionally affecting) by having so few of them stick when they happened so often. Also Amber Benson was not recurring at the time her character was killed, she had a series regular contract for several seasons but was only put in the opening credits for that episode to play with audience expectations (which was a neat and effective trick, I might add). ETA: The Vampire Diaries is even worse in this regard. Seems like it's just inherent to this genre of shows that they can't escape comic book deaths (death/resurrection/death/resurrection/etc.) in their plotting. I never watched True Blood but maybe it's the same there. less laughter fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Apr 6, 2016 |
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Apr 6, 2016 02:02
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Watching Daredevil S2Ep4 "Hey, is that Datak Tarr?" Guy proceeds to stab someone in the face with an icepick. "Yup."
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Apr 6, 2016 02:16
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Tenzarin posted:Watched Comedy: Broad City, Silicon Valley, Veep Dramady: Shameless, Catastrophe, Mad Dogs Drama: The Americans, Fargo, Happy Valley
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Apr 6, 2016 02:26
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Wow I forgot that Whedon killed a character for shock value in both Avengers movies. lol. but SHIELD is run by Whedon's brother, not Whedon himself, and thus does not have the same propensity for shock character death. My problem with shock character death is that it's often rooted in making shows more "realistic". Like how Tara is killed by a stray bullet, for example. IN A FANTASY SHOW. 2 Edgy 4 Me. but television is fiction, and is not actually under any obligation to be "real". And thus, I think character deaths should be set up by the narrative. A good character death is like Charlie's death in LOST. A bad character death is like Libby's death in LOST (Ana Lucia's had some thematic support, but Libby dying was pretty much bullshit). another good example of a narratively justified character death is Carter in Person of Interest. I don't mean that it's right that they died, but that the story made sense. When a character death is jarring and abrupt, it disrupt narrative flow. I know that shock deaths are used to kick plots into gear, but you can make the deaths less OMG, and more "I'm sad about this, but kinda saw it coming". It's not narratively valid in most cases, it's just about getting ratings.
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Apr 6, 2016 03:01
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There is no episode of SHIELD where Coulson gets brought back.
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Apr 6, 2016 03:05
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I mostly just dislike how pedestrian Whedon's directing is. Especially when people are calling Snyder a hack in the wake of Batman Vee Superman, as if The Avengers wasn't all dull network TV direction aside from the action sequences they farmed out to special effects studios.
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Apr 6, 2016 03:05
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Spatula City posted:Wow I forgot that Whedon killed a character for shock value in both Avengers movies. lol. Second character death wasn't necessarily just for shock value. It's because there was a big-rear end fight between Fox and Marvel for Quicksilver (who is technically a mutant, along with Scarlet Witch), and Marvel only got to use him if they killed him off. They DID play it for shock value, but I thought it was in an entertaining way -- throwing up every possible death flag for Hawkeye only to have Quicksilver take the hit in an unexpected -- but entirely redemptive -- way.
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Apr 6, 2016 03:16
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I have no issue with Whedon writing the plot lines, but his dialogue work is atrocious.
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Apr 6, 2016 03:36
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GreenNight posted:Anyone check out Wynonna Earp? Yup. Really liked the main character, and the sister was pretty good too. The plot needs more filling out as it is pretty simplistic right now, but I thought it was promising.
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Apr 6, 2016 07:18
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muscles like this? posted:Watching Daredevil S2Ep4 "Hey, is that Datak Tarr?" Guy proceeds to stab someone in the face with an icepick. "Yup." Legitimately the peak non-punisher moment in that entire season.
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Apr 6, 2016 07:36
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Ouch, Blue Buffalo calling out Beneful in this add.
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Apr 6, 2016 07:53
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EL BROMANCE posted:I have no issue with Whedon writing the plot lines, but his dialogue work is atrocious. Depends what sort of dialogue, obviously the light hearted quippy stuff is his strength but anything meant to have some emotional weight to it often doesn't work. Like when Fred was taken by Illyria on Angel and Angel says to his team to motivate them to save her: "remember guys... Winifred Burkle." Just comes off as cheesy so it does not have the desired effect.
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Apr 6, 2016 08:18
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yeah but people HATE light-hearted quippy stylised dialogue man. remember the shitstorm that occurred after juno came out because "THATS NOT HOW REAL PEOPLE TALK GRRR"
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Apr 6, 2016 08:24
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The Community season 1 finale is perfect in every way.
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Apr 6, 2016 08:30
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Aphrodite posted:There is no episode of SHIELD where Coulson gets brought back. You misread what I said, I meant brought back by the writers/producers as an alive character and actor on the show in the pilot after being written out in the movie. Not brought back in the narrative sense of raising a character from the dead (by one of the characters resurrecting him like Willow resurrecting Buffy, Wolfram & Hart resurrecting Darla, or Angel resurrecting Spike).
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Apr 6, 2016 09:34
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZApf9c8Tes
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Apr 6, 2016 10:35
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Norwegian Rudo posted:Yup. Really liked the main character, and the sister was pretty good too. The plot needs more filling out as it is pretty simplistic right now, but I thought it was promising. All in... main chick is a pistol. Sister is ridiculously hot.
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Apr 6, 2016 11:35
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For what it's worth, Whedon also didn't like the idea of bringing back Coulson and that was a Marvel decision. I believe that when he killed him off he didn't do it knowing that he would be coming back.
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Apr 6, 2016 11:45
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God drat American Crime Story was a superb show. That finale was fantastic.
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Apr 6, 2016 11:49
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DrVenkman posted:For what it's worth, Whedon also didn't like the idea of bringing back Coulson and that was a Marvel decision. I believe that when he killed him off he didn't do it knowing that he would be coming back. Also, to be fair, the mechanism by which they brought him back directly informed storylines for a solid two seasons after it.
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Apr 6, 2016 11:54
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Escobarbarian posted:God drat American Crime Story was a superb show. That finale was fantastic. It was really good. I'm just hoping that it doesn't have the usual Ryan Murphy sophomore slump next season when it covers Hurricane Katrina.
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Apr 6, 2016 11:56
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Guy Mann posted:I'm just hoping that it doesn't have the usual Ryan Murphy sophomore slump next season when it covers Hurricane Katrina. American Horror Story season 2 was its best season.
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Apr 6, 2016 12:12
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zoux posted:Whedon didn't kill anybody in his run on Xmen. He killed that guy whose power was flying, but then lost his powers.
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Apr 6, 2016 12:55
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Guy Mann posted:It was really good. I'm just hoping that it doesn't have the usual Ryan Murphy sophomore slump next season when it covers Hurricane Katrina. As long as he sticks to directing, which he did throughout this run, then it'll be fine. The problem will come when he decides that he needs to start writing scripts.
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Apr 6, 2016 13:00
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Escobarbarian posted:yeah but people HATE light-hearted quippy stylised dialogue man. remember the shitstorm that occurred after juno came out because "THATS NOT HOW REAL PEOPLE TALK GRRR" The main issue I think with Whedon's quippy dialogue is when it becomes this bizarro Darmok and Jalad thing where everyone speaks in the form of quips almost constantly. It's especially egregious in Avengers 2. I don't think people necessarily "hate" that kind of dialogue, but since you bring up Juno, it's the same issue there, where every character is spouting bizarre poo poo like "your eggo is preggo" it really sticks out like a sore thumb.
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Apr 6, 2016 13:36
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the first fifteen minutes taint the whole thing but yeah "your eggo is preggo" "honest to blog" leave a bad first impression unlike joss whedon though, diablo cody pulls out of the spin and still crafts a good narrative once it abandons its more self-consciously twee aspects. seriously, juno is a good film first fifteen minutes excepted
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Apr 6, 2016 15:26
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Yeah there are only really two bad scenes in Juno for dialogue and they're both right near the beginning
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Apr 6, 2016 15:27
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Yeah but Joss Whedon never made Jennifer's Body, so point Whedon.
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Apr 6, 2016 15:29
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Aphrodite posted:Yeah but Joss Whedon never made Jennifer's Body, so point Whedon.
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Apr 6, 2016 15:36
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