Older D&D and Retroclone Thread: From OD&D To 4E

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Older D&D and Retroclone Thread: From OD&D To 4E

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/156530/For-Gold--Glory

There's also For Gold & Glory as a free 1-to-1 retroclone of AD&D 2e.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 16:56

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 20:54

Evil Mastermind: Apr 28, 2008

Cat Face Joe posted:

2. Is there any non-adventure supplements for Basic beyond the Rules Cyclopedia.

Quite a few, actually, although the selection isn't as robust as it is for other editions.

The biggest ones are the GAZ series of "Gazeteers", each of which detailed a specific region of Mystaria and had a new class or two for said region.

# ? Apr 14, 2016 17:22

DalaranJ: Apr 15, 2008; Yosuke will now die for you.

gradenko_2000 posted:

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/156530/For-Gold--Glory

There's also For Gold & Glory as a free 1-to-1 retroclone of AD&D 2e.

Oh, sweet!

I am pretty disappointed that so called "God Emperor Games" hasn't released a serial filed off Dune setting though.

# ? Apr 15, 2016 01:42

drrockso20: May 6, 2013; Has Not Actually Done Cocaine

Evil Mastermind posted:

Quite a few, actually, although the selection isn't as robust as it is for other editions.

The biggest ones are the GAZ series of "Gazeteers", each of which detailed a specific region of Mystaria and had a new class or two for said region.

There's also the Creature Crucible supplements and the Hollow World supplements that basically Gazateers under another name(not to mention a couple other supplements that add classes and other PC related things)

# ? Apr 15, 2016 02:03

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

dwarf74 posted:

I was shocked at how deeply-integrated the AD&D 1e Psionic rules were with the rest of the system. I had remembered them being a weird tack-on, but there's a lot of monsters who depend on them. Not just the obvious stuff like mind flayers and intellect devourers - some you wouldn't expect, like Demons and Devils.

Yeah, but they also had the most of the basic psionics (the attack/defense methods) designed so that they only mattered between psionic creatures. (Psionic Blast being the exception.) Other than that the powers were easily substituted with whatever near-clone "special ability" could fill the slot.

# ? Apr 15, 2016 09:51

fidgit: Apr 27, 2002; And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless.

dwarf74 posted:

I'm running DCC for the first time tomorrow and I'm pumped.

What's everyone's views on allowing some ability score increases when hitting 1st? Like letting them reroll 2-3 non-Luck stats on 4d6s3 on that first advancement.

We haven't made new characters in a while, but I'm thinking about giving a small bonus to the prime attribute upon reaching 1st level. I've also started to houserule that "unplayable characters" can get re-rolled (ie more negatives than positive scores).

# ? Apr 15, 2016 19:48

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

FRINGE posted:

Yeah, but they also had the most of the basic psionics (the attack/defense methods) designed so that they only mattered between psionic creatures. (Psionic Blast being the exception.) Other than that the powers were easily substituted with whatever near-clone "special ability" could fill the slot.

Yeah, the Attack/Defense modes are often ignorable; it's the rest of the abilities that are a drag.

# ? Apr 15, 2016 21:12

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

On DCC and other such randomly rolled character stats: the simplest way to alleviate unplayable characters while still retaining the randomness is to give players a single swap of any two scores, so that if you want to play a Fighter, you can make STR your highest rolled stat, even if it's still just whatever is output by a flat 3d6.

# ? Apr 19, 2016 15:45

aldantefax: Oct 10, 2007; ALWAYS BE MECHFISHIN'

Speaking of DCC, the current Bundle of Holding is running a fantastic deal on DCC Adventure modules, so if you are weak willed then you can go pick those up. :getin:

# ? Apr 19, 2016 17:56

alg: Mar 14, 2007; A wolf was no less a wolf because a whim of chance caused him to run with the watch-dogs.

aldantefax posted:

Speaking of DCC, the current Bundle of Holding is running a fantastic deal on DCC Adventure modules, so if you are weak willed then you can go pick those up.

Looks like its all 3.5 stuff :crossarms:

# ? Apr 19, 2016 18:01

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

alg posted:

Looks like its all 3.5 stuff

"Dungeon Crawl Classics" used to be a line of 3.5e-compatible adventure modules done in "old-school dungeon crawler" style.

When D&D 4th Edition hit and the GSL was way more restrictive than the OGL, Goodman Games tried to publish material for it, but AFAIK they weren't very successful, and they couldn't go back to doing 3.5 stuff either because of the stipulations of the license. This is probably also why Goodman has such a hang-up over 4th Edition.

So the dirty little secret of Dungeon Crawl Classics The Game is that it's actually a lot like Pathfinder in that Goodman Games had to produce their own proprietary game system so that they could keep producing content for it, and further, that DCC is built with just enough d20 trappings that you could run 3.5e content with it, including these Dungeon Crawl Classics modules that were technically developed for 3.5e before DCC The Game was a twinkle in Goodman's eye.

# ? Apr 19, 2016 18:16

aldantefax: Oct 10, 2007; ALWAYS BE MECHFISHIN'

gradenko_2000 posted:

"Dungeon Crawl Classics" used to be a line of 3.5e-compatible adventure modules done in "old-school dungeon crawler" style.

When D&D 4th Edition hit and the GSL was way more restrictive than the OGL, Goodman Games tried to publish material for it, but AFAIK they weren't very successful, and they couldn't go back to doing 3.5 stuff either because of the stipulations of the license. This is probably also why Goodman has such a hang-up over 4th Edition.

So the dirty little secret of Dungeon Crawl Classics The Game is that it's actually a lot like Pathfinder in that Goodman Games had to produce their own proprietary game system so that they could keep producing content for it, and further, that DCC is built with just enough d20 trappings that you could run 3.5e content with it, including these Dungeon Crawl Classics modules that were technically developed for 3.5e before DCC The Game was a twinkle in Goodman's eye.

You can also run it with 5e if that's your bag of tricks, or just file off the mechanics bits and use the adventures for basically any system that's appropriate. I think I might try to run the stuff in Pathfinder, actually, or maybe in DCC's own system? Who knows.

# ? Apr 19, 2016 18:48

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Alright, so while running Dungeon Crawl Classics last night (the thrilling conclusion to Starless Sea), one of the Wizards cast Color Spray. It Blinded the big guy.

So um.

What does Blindness do? The closest I could find was in the Mighty Deeds of Arms's Blinding Attacks, and there was also a bit about getting +2 to attack a Blind defender.

# ? Apr 28, 2016 14:39

Glorified Scrivener: May 4, 2007; His tongue it could not speak, but only flatter.

dwarf74 posted:

Alright, so while running Dungeon Crawl Classics last night (the thrilling conclusion to Starless Sea), one of the Wizards cast Color Spray. It Blinded the big guy.

So um.

What does Blindness do? The closest I could find was in the Mighty Deeds of Arms's Blinding Attacks, and there was also a bit about getting +2 to attack a Blind defender.

Well, they're blind. Go with that as far as how you think the NPC will react to their new situation.

So when this came up at our table we settled on a +2 modifier for attackers and a -2 to making attacks for the blinded target, deciding that being blinded was roughly equivalent to your target being behind cover. We also threw in the half speed from result 4 on the Blinding Attack Mighty Deed list for the target. We didn't go with -4 from the blinding attacks list because we decided Color Spray probably didn't induce as much shock as being physically struck in the eyes, but that's your call. Leaving it at a -2 also keeps it roughly in line with a first level fighters deed die result of 3. Everybody seems satisfied with that and we apply it to darkness as well.

Alternately, make something up or import your favorite blindness rules from another source. I keep a notebook with house rules and just try to be consistent in the way they're applied. And I may yet get around to grafting on the crit tables from Arms Law.

# ? Apr 28, 2016 16:02

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Glorified Scrivener posted:

Well, they're blind. Go with that as far as how you think the NPC will react to their new situation.

So when this came up at our table we settled on a +2 modifier for attackers and a -2 to making attacks for the blinded target, deciding that being blinded was roughly equivalent to your target being behind cover. We also threw in the half speed from result 4 on the Blinding Attack Mighty Deed list for the target. We didn't go with -4 from the blinding attacks list because we decided Color Spray probably didn't induce as much shock as being physically struck in the eyes, but that's your call. Leaving it at a -2 also keeps it roughly in line with a first level fighters deed die result of 3. Everybody seems satisfied with that and we apply it to darkness as well.

Alternately, make something up or import your favorite blindness rules from another source. I keep a notebook with house rules and just try to be consistent in the way they're applied. And I may yet get around to grafting on the crit tables from Arms Law.

Yeah, I dunno, seems like something that should have been on that big table. Would have made it easier in play.

I went with the -8 from the MDoA table for lack of anything better (he hit his next attack anyway) but I think I like the -4 melee/-8 missile option later in the text.

# ? Apr 28, 2016 16:08

alg: Mar 14, 2007; A wolf was no less a wolf because a whim of chance caused him to run with the watch-dogs.

It's DCC. Upgrade or downgrade dice, don't use modifiers :shobon:

# ? Apr 28, 2016 16:09

Glorified Scrivener: May 4, 2007; His tongue it could not speak, but only flatter.

alg posted:

It's DCC. Upgrade or downgrade dice, don't use modifiers

Also a totally cool thing to do! I've done this with pcs trying to wield over sized weapons and for unfavorable conditions like an archer making an attacking from a swaying rope bridge.

dwarf74 posted:

Yeah, I dunno, seems like something that should have been on that big table. Would have made it easier in play.

I went with the -8 from the MDoA table for lack of anything better (he hit his next attack anyway) but I think I like the -4 melee/-8 missile option later in the text.

It would be easier. It was an adjustment for us not having something like the condition charts and definitions that are present in 3.x and we discussed just importing the relevant section of the SRD, but decided against it.

How'd your players react to the rules uncertainty? If you keep playing you'll have to make more of this type of ruling.

# ? Apr 28, 2016 16:25

dwarf74: Sep 2, 2012; Buglord

Glorified Scrivener posted:

It would be easier. It was an adjustment for us not having something like the condition charts and definitions that are present in 3.x and we discussed just importing the relevant section of the SRD, but decided against it.

How'd your players react to the rules uncertainty? If you keep playing you'll have to make more of this type of ruling.

Oh, it went fine, but it stopped play for a few minutes. I'm fine making rulings, and my group is fine with me doing it, but this really felt like something that should have been spelled out a bit better. It's the fundamental effect of the spell, so I was hoping for as much clarity as there is around blindness almost everywhere else it pops up - like in the MDoA lists.

# ? Apr 28, 2016 16:41

Covok: May 27, 2013; Yet where is that woman now? Tell me, in what heave does she reside? None of them. Because no God bothered to listen or care. If that is what you think it means to be a God, then you and all your teachings are welcome to do as that poor women did. And vanish from these realms forever.

While DCC would never admit it, you play things like that like you'd play them in DW: narrative effect with a slight mechnical one, if neccesary.

# ? Apr 28, 2016 18:20

Glorified Scrivener: May 4, 2007; His tongue it could not speak, but only flatter.

Covok posted:

While DCC would never admit it, you play things like that like you'd play them in DW: narrative effect with a slight mechnical one, if neccesary.

Huh, I've deleted a few sarcastic responses, but I'll just say that my reading of the tone of the rules seems to be significantly different from yours.

I'm curious to know your take on the Mighty Deeds of Arms sub-system for instance.

Edit: nm, I went back and read your earlier posts in the thread.

# ? Apr 28, 2016 23:55

DalaranJ: Apr 15, 2008; Yosuke will now die for you.

So, I'm writing up the equivalent of an equipment list for a game. What are the most important dungeon crawling equipment items to put on it?

# ? May 2, 2016 14:25

aldantefax: Oct 10, 2007; ALWAYS BE MECHFISHIN'

DalaranJ posted:

So, I'm writing up the equivalent of an equipment list for a game. What are the most important dungeon crawling equipment items to put on it?

Torches.

# ? May 2, 2016 19:27

hectorgrey: Oct 14, 2011

aldantefax posted:

Torches.

Or a lantern with fuel, since torches underground are a fantastic way to die from smoke inhalation...

# ? May 2, 2016 19:35

Libertad!: Oct 30, 2013; You can have the last word, but I'll have the last laugh!

We once played with an all-demihuman party, so we never needed to carry around torches or lanterns just to survive in the dungeon.

# ? May 2, 2016 23:12

OtspIII: Sep 22, 2002

DalaranJ posted:

So, I'm writing up the equivalent of an equipment list for a game. What are the most important dungeon crawling equipment items to put on it?

I think there are three good general categories for stuff to list in your game. There's stuff that helps let players know what gameplay is going to be like (10 foot poles, torches), stuff with special rules that need to be balanced (flasks of burning oil, hirelings), and cool flavor stuff that just sets a tone for the game and gives people motivations (fancy clothes, musical instruments, how much it costs to get a 10' statue of you to put in the town square, etc).

# ? May 3, 2016 01:51

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

DalaranJ posted:

So, I'm writing up the equivalent of an equipment list for a game. What are the most important dungeon crawling equipment items to put on it?

We would need to know what kind of game youre running.

Like is this a dungeon crawl death fest? If so its 10' poles, cheap hirelings, spikes, and rope (etc)

Is it a detailed nerd fest? You might need some detailed lists of herbs, components, songs, lineages and heraldry crap and other nerd stuff.

Is it a character narrative thing? You would want to detail the available stuff after you know what the characters are trying to 'become' or do.

This is a badly written post, but I think the gist comes across.

# ? May 3, 2016 07:03

Glorified Scrivener: May 4, 2007; His tongue it could not speak, but only flatter.

DalaranJ posted:

So, I'm writing up the equivalent of an equipment list for a game. What are the most important dungeon crawling equipment items to put on it?

Polearms! Bardiches & Glaives & Guisarmes & Glaive-Guisarmes & Bill-Guisarmes & Bec De Corbins & Fauchard-Guisarmes!

Seriously though, what Otspill said. I'm partial to mundane stuff like chalk and marbles because they hint that there's a use for them in the game.

# ? May 3, 2016 15:46

90s Cringe Rock: Nov 29, 2006

Can I get a Fauchard Guisarme-Fork, Bat's Wing on the fork, in Pike length, with a mid-length spike on the butt? Ta.

# ? May 3, 2016 17:41

Flaggy: Jul 6, 2007; Grandpa Cthulu needs his napping chair; Grimey Drawer

I am trying to find the old AD&D Gamebooks (not the RPG books like Dungeon master guide, monster manual or players handbook) but the old CYOA sort of books that Dungeons and Dragons did in the late 80's. I believe they were called Gamebooks and you played through them with a bookmark as your character? If any of you have some you are looking to get rid of hit me up!

Flaggy fucked around with this message at 01:15 on May 4, 2016

# ? May 4, 2016 01:10

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Flaggy posted:

I am trying to find the old AD&D Gamebooks (not the RPG books like Dungeon master guide, monster manual or players handbook) but the old CYOA sort of books that Dungeons and Dragons did in the late 80's. I believe they were called Gamebooks and you played through them with a bookmark as your character? If any of you have some you are looking to get rid of hit me up!

Endless Quest?

# ? May 4, 2016 01:51

Flaggy: Jul 6, 2007; Grandpa Cthulu needs his napping chair; Grimey Drawer

Those look right I was also thinking of these: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Dungeons_%26_Dragons_Adventure_Gamebooks

# ? May 4, 2016 17:22

Quantumfate: Feb 17, 2009; Angered & displeased, he went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, insulted & cursed him with rude, harsh words.

When this was said, the Blessed One said to him:

"Motherfucker I will -end- you"

Is there a list of all the classes that were put out for basic dnd?

# ? May 4, 2016 20:53

Hypnobeard: Sep 15, 2004; Obey the Beard

Dragonsfoot Thread posted:

Here are the classes from the Gazetteers and the Player Crucibles:

GAZ2 Dervish (Druid variant)
GAZ5 Elf Wizard, and TreeKeeper
GAZ6 Dwarf-Cleric
GAZ7: Wise Woman
GAZ8 Master (Druid variant for maxed-out Halflings)
GAZ9 Merchant-Prince
GAZ10 Kobold, Goblin, Orc, Hobgoblin, Gnoll, Bugbear, Ogre, Troll +Wicca/Wokani for some of the races. Also contains rules to convert almost any monster to PC class
GAZ11 Merchant
GAZ12 Shaman (Ethengar)
GAZ13 Shadow Elf, Shadow Elf Shaman
GAZ14 Shamani (Atruaghin)
Dawn of the Emperor Rake, Forester

PC1 Brownie (Redcap), Centaur, Dryad, Faun, Hsiao, Leprechaun, Pixie, Pooka, Sidhe, Sprite, Treant, Wood Imp, Woodrake, +Woodland Spellcasters for some of the races
PC2 Faenare, Gnome, Gremlin, Harpy, Nagpa, Pegataur, Sphinx, Tabi
PC3 Aquatic Elf, Kna, Kopru, Merrow, Nixie, Sea Giant, Shark-Kin, Triton
PC4 Werebat, Werebear, Wereboar, Werefox, Wererat, Wereseal, Wereshark, Weretiger, Werewolf, Devil Swine

Hollow World Boxed Set:
Human variants: Antalian race, Azcan race, Milenian race, Neathar race, Nithian race, Oltec race, Tanagoro race, Traldar race
Beastman, Blacklore elf race, Bruteman, Elf Fighter, Gentle Folk Elf race, Hutaakan, Icevale Elf race, Jennite race, Kogolor race, Krugel Orc race, Kubitt, Malpheggi Lizardman race, Merry Pirate, Schattenalfen race

HWA3:
Kirtanta (Thug)

HWR3:
Specialty Cleric of Halav, Specialty Cleric of Ixion, Specialty Cleric of Kagyar, Specialty Cleric of Matera, Specialty Cleric of Petra, Specialty Cleric of Pflarr, Specialty Cleric of Protius, Specialty Cleric of Ranivorus, Specialty Cleric of Rathanos, Specialty Cleric of Thanatos, Specialty Cleric of Valerias, Specialty Cleric of Zargos

Voyages of the Princess Ark:
Aranea (Dragon 182), Bard (Dragon 177), Cay-Man (Dragon 185), Chameleon Man (Dragon 186), Chameleon Man Medicine Man (Dragon 185), Robrenn Druids (Dragon 177), Druidic Knight (Dragon 177), Elf Cleric (Dragon 178), Elven Knights (Dragon 178), Elven Paladins/Avengers (Dragon 178), Gator Man (Dragon 185), Half-Elf (Dragon 178), Lupin (Dragon 181), N'djatwa race (elf-ogre) (Dragon 157), Phanaton (Dragon 186), Rakasta (Dragon 181), Shazak Lizardman race (Dragon 185)

From this thread on Dragonsfoot. No idea if it's 100% complete.

# ? May 4, 2016 21:07

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Flaggy posted:

Those look right I was also thinking of these: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Dungeons_%26_Dragons_Adventure_Gamebooks

There were a lot of lines of those back then. I remember liking these too:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragontales
http://www.amazon.com/Sword-Daughters-Quest-Dragontales-Pathway/dp/B00450LAQO

Plus the Lone Wolf books, and a bunch of others: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_gamebooks

# ? May 6, 2016 01:59

FRINGE: May 23, 2003; title stolen for lf posting

Im surprised no one with the rights (or able to buy the rights) has bought up all those titles and made them computer and ebook friendly.

# ? May 6, 2016 02:00

A Strange Aeon: Mar 26, 2010; You are now a slimy little toad; The Great Twist

FRINGE posted:

Im surprised no one with the rights (or able to buy the rights) has bought up all those titles and made them computer and ebook friendly.

Enjoy the Lone Wolf series at least:

https://www.projectaon.org/en/Main/Home

# ? May 6, 2016 12:17

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

chrisoya posted:

Can I get a Fauchard Guisarme-Fork, Bat's Wing on the fork, in Pike length, with a mid-length spike on the butt? Ta.

Modular Polearm Combination Creator is my favorite dumb hypothetical fantasy wargaming supplement

# ? May 6, 2016 12:23

Arivia: Mar 17, 2011

gradenko_2000 posted:

Modular Polearm Combination Creator is my favorite dumb hypothetical fantasy wargaming supplement

Not hypothetical. There are tables for that in a Dyson's Dodecahedron issue, and it is glorious.

# ? May 6, 2016 12:47

VacuumJockey: Jun 6, 2011; by R. Guyovich

Gradenko 2K, then you will be pleased with Chevauchee (although it's technically not an RPG, but a skirmish wargame)

Me kant uz bbkode: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1E-AvSFhP2ieGNIQXFjVUlaTms/view?usp=sharing

# ? May 6, 2016 13:01

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 20:54

Libertad!: Oct 30, 2013; You can have the last word, but I'll have the last laugh!

Guy who made The Front WWIII retroclone is apparently using other people's non-public domain artwork without permission.

Also in the comments section of the article, David Black (of The Black Hack retroclone) claims that the initial wording for The Front RPG's product description was a word-for-word copy of his own work, and later requested it be changed.

Libertad! fucked around with this message at 20:57 on May 7, 2016

# ? May 7, 2016 20:54

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