|
Awesome! posted:i would not spend money on dragon fin soup agreedo
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2016 22:45
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 11:50 |
|
|
superh posted:Daaamn dudes.  Angry Diplomat posted:As much as I love Dungeonmans, it's getting real tiresome how being one-shotted is the cause of something like 50% of my deaths. This is the third character who, despite having high Stremf and a very good set of Real Armour (and in this case, a heavy shield as well), got turned into a fine red mist in a single turn because I got a purpleonian cultist boss at the end of a graveyard I'd been effortlessly stomping up to that point, and the first thing he did was charge and do significantly more than my max health in a single attack. It's a little ridiculous that a character who can utterly clobber Legendary overworld encounters gets instantaneously pulped by the boss of an area marked as "adventurous."
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2016 23:14
|
|
I don't pitch it much on here but I'm the lead dev on Deathstate.
|
madjackmcmad posted:Something is going wrong with boss scaling. I'll try and correct it for this week's patch. I'm getting so upset by this that I might temporarily get in there and cheat, detect oneshots and artificially soak some of that damage. Nothing in an Adventurous dungeon should be instantly pulping anything. I'm really sorry about this. Yeah it's one of the things that made me never touch dungeonmans again after I beat it once. Especially when it's like an ancient boss behind a secret wall, they pretty much gib you before you have a chance to even run away. It seemed the ideal way to play was as cowardly as possible plinking away from a distance or summoning an army of poo poo to hide behind.
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2016 23:18
|
|
|
madjackmcmad posted:Good job on your game there chief. And hooray for the goon RL thread, we're the best! It's really good to hear that this is Not Intended Behaviour and I apologize if I came across as really angry. I was just a bit unhappy at losing a hilariously good mans whose Bannermans/Necromansy hybrid skillset was fun as hell to play. I will continue to play your good game and recommend it to others 
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2016 23:41
|
|
|
deathstate describes itself as a single stick shooter. what does that mean? you move and bullets auto aim when you push a fire button?
|
|
#
?
Apr 19, 2016 23:44
|
|
|
drink_bleach posted:ideal way to play was as cowardly as possible  Angry Diplomat posted:It's really good to hear that this is Not Intended Behaviour and I apologize if I came across as really angry.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2016 00:08
|
|
|
Awesome! posted:deathstate describes itself as a single stick shooter. what does that mean? you move and bullets auto aim when you push a fire button? i was wondering this to and the preview video didn't help me figure it out. nice new thread icon.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2016 00:09
|
|
|
Awesome! posted:deathstate describes itself as a single stick shooter. what does that mean? you move and bullets auto aim when you push a fire button? You autofire when something's in range. Your job as a player is about dodging (it has extremely generous iframes) and active ability/consumable use. The game keeps this interesting by adding more bullets.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2016 00:15
|
|
|
Irony.or.Death posted:You autofire when something's in range. Your job as a player is about dodging (it has extremely generous iframes) and active ability/consumable use. The game keeps this interesting by adding more bullets. That sounds really interesting and I hadn't realized from a quick glance at the trailer either. I'm always feeling like there are more ways to get some of that crisp control precision of proper roguelikes into the roguelites/inspired by/ whatever the hell you want to call them games and that's kind of a way to pair BoI closer to them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2016 01:00
|
|
|
Irony.or.Death posted:Can I just ask you what is the deal with lasers? Is there a benefit that's not obvious on the player end? Because on the player end they look cool and feel like garbage, which has confused me as long as I've been playing. I think that's the worst thing I have to say about the game. I can answer a bit - they ARE supposed to look cool! But also, for a while their dps was busted and they did significantly less damage than bullets. I think we tried to address that in one of the recent patches (maybe the new one right out of beta?). That said, I've been feeling a little like lasers should just behave in a "snappier" way, at least for players. Some book lasers work this way now. And, for those who've asked, single stick means you auto fire at the closest enemy to you, so you get to dodge around and keep doing damage. It let us turn the number of bullets up in some of the higher difficulties.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2016 01:19
|
|
|
Cool, thank you - it's reassuring to know that wasn't all my imagination. Look forward to diving into the new patch and seeing if I can justify taking my beloved floating eye into desecration attempts now (I will still fail).
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2016 01:30
|
|
|
FuzzySlippers posted:That sounds really interesting and I hadn't realized from a quick glance at the trailer either. I'm always feeling like there are more ways to get some of that crisp control precision of proper roguelikes into the roguelites/inspired by/ whatever the hell you want to call them games and that's kind of a way to pair BoI closer to them. Something I like in realtime action-y games is limited or controlled slowtime. Super Hot is probably the peak of this particular gameplay concept, but it's used elsewhere. Battlefleet Gothic is using it, even in multiplayer, which is pretty rad - you have realtime RTS style ship control, but you have a limited ability to activate your 'Tactical Cogitators' and cogitate limitedly, which slows down time for both players in a match - so it's not entirely a benefit for you, but presumably you're using it when it will give you more of an edge than your opponent. There are ways to make action oriented or pure action games a lot more forgiving or friendly. Some of the... what do kids call DMC clones these days? Character action games? Whatever. The easier modes may have stuff like auto-block or even auto-combos, so you can focus on just moving around and exploring the world. Difficulty settings in general aren't something I see pursued too often in roguelikes, about the closest they come is optional areas that add difficulty in one form or another (15 rune crawl vs 3 et al).
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2016 01:31
|
|
|
superh posted:Daaamn dudes. Bought Deathstate last night after being on the fence about spending fifteen dollars on a game I wasn't sure about since it came out. Realized the last couple times I spent about fifteen dollars on a game I got Dungeonmans, Nuclear Throne, and Caves of Qud, so I ponied up and have been playing it all day. Very good game, would recommend. I beat the last boss before I realized you can dodge with the arrow keys. Also is there a point to Scar? He's the first unlock but for the most part, he's seems basically exactly the same as the Seeker minus his Q power. edit: Oh yeah, I think I read that review last night and that was part of what sealed it for me. 10/10 would buy again to support cool devs. Mister No fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Apr 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2016 01:38
|
|
|
 i'm buying it to support devs like you, superh.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2016 01:52
|
|
|
victrix posted:Something I like in realtime action-y games is limited or controlled slowtime. Super Hot is probably the peak of this particular gameplay concept, but it's used elsewhere. If you want to play something similar but janky I have been working on a "turn based" option in my UW/Daggerfall ish roguelike here on itch. I haven't had a chance to play Superhot but I've been told its somewhat similar though I was thinking more along the lines of a normal roguelike in that time only moves when you are moving or acting and otherwise time stands still.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2016 01:54
|
|
|
baram. posted:
aw i like things like this. im gonna buy it too
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2016 02:11
|
|
|
superh posted:Daaamn dudes. Nice, your game is good and fun!
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2016 05:05
|
|
|
i am always pleased as punch to see things like this
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2016 05:09
|
|
|
I bought Deathstate based on thread recommendations and thought I couldn't be happier with it, then I saw this:baram. posted:
In short, you guys rock!
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2016 05:44
|
|
|
After playing Downwell again for a bit, it seems like it has more satisfying guns in it than Gungeon, and a specific gameplay style that lets you see and use a ton of them.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2016 06:36
|
|
|
I played like 10 games of deathstate last night and it's really fun but boy am I bad at dodging. pumpkin man is cool though because the default chance of fearing an enemy helps me out a lot.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2016 11:19
|
|
|
Wow, seriously, thank you guys!! I'm really excited to read anyone's first impressions or feedback. I remember reading way up-thread about some people's issues with collision and tight spaces, that's still on our radar. We've done a first pass to try to smooth out "sticky corners" but there's probably more work to be done. baram. posted:I played like 10 games of deathstate last night and it's really fun but boy am I bad at dodging. pumpkin man is cool though because the default chance of fearing an enemy helps me out a lot. I can only speak for myself, but I dodge right into poo poo a LOT. Mostly because when I'm testing I'm rushing around a lot... but that might actually make me statistically the World's Worst Deathstate Player.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2016 13:44
|
|
|
After playing Dungeonmans a bit (okay, a lot) more the other night, I'm beginning to suspect that it's mostly certain enemy types who are a little out of whack with the usual challenge level. Lizardmans are the big offenders in the early game; they're fairly okay (if scary) for the most part, but the little speedy ones seem to be way too damaging for how fast they move and attack, and if you get a champion variant you'll often just die. This is made considerably worse by the fact that their leader dudes can haste all monsters nearby (which is horrendously dangerous and makes them a bigger threat than the average boss), and exponentially worse if you're in one of those lizardmans swamp temple dungeons, since wading into the water slows you. I have had multiple very stromf mans die outright from full health when a hasted tiny lizardman went from out of sight to adjacent and delivered a couple of hits in one turn after I waded a space thinking there were no enemies nearby. Those gelatinous icosahedrons or whatever, the flaming 20-sided die monsters, are offenders as well, but that's pretty obviously their niche. I would suggest reducing their outright damage to a robust but decidedly survivable level and making them inflict an extremely serious burning effect instead - that would encourage the use of various kinds of consumables, and would ensure that gelatinous twentyhedrons could still make dungeonmans intensely nervous without just gibbing every player the first time they saw one (or fatfingered next to one) as a matter of course. That way you'd be hearing "aw gently caress, I should have used a scroll of fire resistance, YASD " instead of, "what the gently caress, I walked around a corner and some red circle thing exploded me  "In the later parts of the game, orcs and purpleonian cultists, particularly the Pyramid Heads (reavers?), seem to be some of the worst offenders. Orcs are brutal for having major ranged and melee damage output, which is fine, and for showing up in big groups, which is also fine, except that they also have the ability to drag you around and pin you so that you end up smack in the middle of a giant group of melee brutes while archers rain murder on you and an invisible mage sets you on fire - and when you blink out they just drag you back in. Their synergy is well-designed for sure, it's just that they tend to flat-out steamroll a lot of builds and I think they could use some subtle tuning to make them a little less nightmarish. As for the Pyramid Heads, gently caress those guys. They just do a patently unreasonable amount of damage for an aggressive, durable melee brute that can charge from a substantial distance and likes to show up with friends. Even in Real Armour it's a huge risk to be anywhere near one for any period of time, and if you're relying on dodging or some other Prance Elf nonsense, eating a charge from them is basically a coin toss as to whether you die on the spot. Let them charge, let them stun, let them stay beefy, but tone their damage way down, and they'll remain a serious tactical consideration due to their aggression and ability to pursue and lock down Dungeonmans with extreme prejudice - but fighting a regular enemy one on one really shouldn't be ten times as scary and dangerous as fighting a Warlord. The only other major oneshot offenders I've seen have been high-level cryoladies and high-level necromanser jerks, and the necromansers are mostly guilty of having a preposterously deadly minion (the flaming blood thing) that they will immediately spam at you the instant they are aware of your existence. Both of those are fairly survivable by stacking a crapton of ice or fire resistance, respectively, but it still seems a tad unforgiving given that a) most gear enchantments are entirely random in nature and b) there's never an explicit "lategame enemies throw around a poo poo ton of fire and ice damage and if you don't hoard gear with a butt-ton of resistance to those you will immediately die" warning. The cryobastards alone are reason enough to put on one of those ice-immunity cursed rings and just not ever remove it again (and stack fire resist from other sources to make up for its penalty). Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 15:31 on Apr 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2016 15:25
|
|
|
Angry Diplomat posted:After playing Dungeonmans a bit (okay, a lot) more the other night, I'm beginning to suspect that it's mostly certain enemy types who are a little out of whack with the usual challenge level. There's a lot to parse here, but I jumped in on running some cultist tests to make sure I wasn't crazy. I spawned a level 15 cultist to fight my level 12 mans, covered myself in unenchanted t4 heavy armor, and I was getting hit for 160 a swing. Far from patently unreasonable! ... until! He used Wreck Armor on me. Then I was hurting. Even still, I was getting hit for ~600, which is nasty but if you've got 600 health at level 12 you're doing something wrong. I changed Wreck Armor to be a Champion power, so the mooks won't have it, and then reduced the duration of Wreck Armor to 3 rounds. As it is currently, bad guys can chain it on you.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2016 18:38
|
|
|
So,as someone who just started playing Dredmor,does anyone have some newbie advice? Like,good starting builds,mods to get/avoid?
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2016 18:49
|
|
|
VolticSurge posted:So,as someone who just started playing Dredmor,does anyone have some newbie advice? Like,good starting builds,mods to get/avoid? Have at most one crafting skill, because inventory management in Dredmor is a pain in the rear end. Burglary gives you infinite lockpicks, which in turn means a) never breaking a door and being unable to close it, and b) a low-grade source of experience. Artful Dodger gives you a cheap targeted teleport (knight's-move only, but targeted anyway) with a short cooldown, which can be a major lifesaver. You don't actually need the various weapon skills; they just give you a variety of bonuses if you are wielding the appropriate weapon type (or not, in the case of the unarmed combat skill). The same goes for the dual-wielding skill: it just gives you bonuses when you have two weapons equipped. Turn on No Time To Grind, and there's a keyboard shortcut (Ctrl-+, if I recall correctly) that speeds up all animations, which is vital. You can use it repeatedly and make the game speed actually tolerable. ...that's all I can think of. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2016 18:54
|
|
|
VolticSurge posted:So,as someone who just started playing Dredmor,does anyone have some newbie advice? Like,good starting builds,mods to get/avoid? How do you tolerate inventory management and unhelpful UI? If not too much a hassle for you, you can go for a build revolving around Smithing/Tinkering/Clockwork Knight, there's many variations but usually they are pretty decent until late game (unless properly geared). Master of Arms is super good if you want to rely on heavy armor. Using a shield is ok for the early game, but later you want to use two weapons, so dual wield is decent. Nowadays there's no penalty for using weapons without the related skill (but there's some active skills that can't be used without the adequate weapon) but it's not strictly necessary to pick one to do well in melee. Example build: Clockwork Knight, Tinkering, Smithing, Master of Arms, Dual Wield, Burglary, Communism (or whatever you want). Unarmed fun build (but more advanced): Unarmed, smithing, Clockwork Knight, shield bearer (dual wield shields!), vampirism, fungal arts, master of arms. Now for a quick, simple mage build, weak early on, but stronger later: pyromancy/fire magic (for the pet and aoe damage), leylines (just grab the first skill, huge early mana-on-demand), blood magic (more mana), maybe mathemathics (for the teleport), magic training (stats) and some other skill with utility or a strong single target nuke (like psionics).
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2016 19:18
|
|
|
Generally, starters are best off with a wide variety of skills to sample everything. Picking a crafting skill, weapons skill, escape skill, defense/buff skill, minion skill, and whatever else to stack with. If you want to go in murdering everything so that you earn buffs, while regenerating, I would suggest: Berserker Rage, Master of Arms, Perception, Golemancy, Burglary, Vampirism, Alchemy. You get offense and defense buffs while killing things. Heal from eating your enemies. Perception lets you see thing further ahead so you can plan for bosses. Golemancy summons minions to take the heat off. TooMuchAbstraction explains the others. Burglary and Artful Dodger both have evasion moves, though Burglary has a bunch of perks. Master of Arms needs you to take hits to get buffs, which goes against Artful Dodger. You can apply buffs to minions, but I forgot what works on them. I am just throwing up a simple starter melee build. You can stack over a dozen buffs if you want and it gets crazy. There is a thing called "corruption" that wears your equipment down to nothing rather quickly. I would avoid those floors of enemies entirely or turn it off with some modding. The difference in difficulty are the level of enemies. Going Rogue is like fighting out of depth monsters. Scalding Coffee fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Apr 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2016 19:30
|
|
|
Scalding Coffee posted:The difference in difficulty are the level of enemies. Going Rogue is like fighting out of depth monsters. Difficulty also affects your passive health and mana regen. On the easiest difficulty it's nearly trivial to get your mana regen up to 1/turn, allowing you to spam spells like crazy. On Going Rogue it's a lot harder. Due to the way +regen works (time to regen 1 point = (difficulty-modified base value) - (total +regen), so each additional point is worth more than the last), this makes investing in regen a lot less viable on Going Rogue, which in turn means relying more on food/drink, other consumables, and skills.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2016 19:49
|
|
|
Well I have to admit when I first read about Deathstate I didn't think the concept sounded all that interesting, but after reading all the effusive praise for it in this thread I decided I might as well give it a shot, especially considering how cheap it is, and it really is a lot more fun than I was expecting. This would be another one of those instances where I am happy to be proven incorrect. The game seems quite easy so far - I died in my first game just because I was expecting the game to spawn some kind of invulnerable monster I'd have to run away from Spelunky-style if I took too long rather than starting to quickly drain my health. Lesson learned. The second game, I made it all the way to the final boss, who I died to (he seemed like quite a bit of a difficulty spike compared to the kinds of things I was facing before) but considering how much unlockable poo poo there is in this game I would imagine there's likely a kind of Binding of Isaac thing going on here where the game will start to throw tougher and tougher challenges at me the more I play, so I'm not too worried about the difficulty. The one major complaint I have is how distracting, obnoxious, and headache inducing a lot of the visual effects in the game are - the black smudges the game constantly displays in the corners for some reason, all the distortion and stuff that happens when you get hit (this keeps getting me hit AGAIN because I lose track of what's happening) and those weird bars of negative color that go scrolling across the levels sometimes. Really wish there was a way to tone some of the effects down and make it a little less visually busy. Aside from that though, drat fine game! I'm really pleasantly surprised by this one. Filling up your little paperdoll in the inventory screen with all kinds of grotesque organs is satisfying to me in the same way that the monstrosities your character becomes in Isaac are.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2016 20:51
|
|
|
VolticSurge posted:So,as someone who just started playing Dredmor,does anyone have some newbie advice? Like,good starting builds,mods to get/avoid? Get Fleshsmithing up to Knit Tissue on every single character no matter what. Okay, you could gently caress around with consumables and regen-over-time and spend half your game eating diggle eggs, but Knit Tissue makes the game way less of a pain. The other skills in Fleshsmithing are mostly good too, so if you want a simple place to start your build, you could just load up on that. Sight radius is surprisingly useful in the late game. Also, fair warning, the final boss is hard.
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2016 21:56
|
|
|
madjackmcmad posted:There's a lot to parse here, but I jumped in on running some cultist tests to make sure I wasn't crazy. I spawned a level 15 cultist to fight my level 12 mans, covered myself in unenchanted t4 heavy armor, and I was getting hit for 160 a swing. Far from patently unreasonable! It's that charge of theirs that always absolutely destroys me. Blow-for-blow, they're heavy hitters in melee, but it's the charge that seems to be their most brutal ability, not least because they will immediately use it and then you're badly hurt and in melee with a mace-wielding Pyramid Head. Does it stun? A guaranteed two or more hits in one action - or a Wreck Armour right off of a charge - would go a long way towards explaining their lethality, as it front-loads the fight quite a bit. Beyond that, I don't know what to tell you. I like to stack health and defences specifically because I hate getting one-shotted, and then those guys just blow through half my health bar in one charge anyway do they inflict Dread Purple damage or something?e: now this is really bugging me, urgh. I'm going to see what I can figure out tonight. Angry Diplomat fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Apr 20, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2016 23:31
|
|
|
Angry Diplomat posted:It's that charge of theirs that always absolutely destroys me. Blow-for-blow, they're heavy hitters in melee, but it's the charge that seems to be their most brutal ability, not least because they will immediately use it and then you're badly hurt and in melee with a mace-wielding Pyramid Head. Does it stun? A guaranteed two or more hits in one action - or a Wreck Armour right off of a charge - would go a long way towards explaining their lethality, as it front-loads the fight quite a bit. It's Wreck Armor that's screwing you, I'm pretty sure of it. The charge does normal damage. But Wreck Armor is 90% reduced armor efficiency and it also fucks with dodge and parry. As of this Friday it will only be on Champion reavers. also, I made this .gif during the devstream just now. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2016 23:53
|
|
|
madjackmcmad posted:if you've got 600 health at level 12 you're doing something wrong. Mind explaining how to do it right, then?
|
|
#
?
Apr 20, 2016 23:59
|
|
|
woop woop got my first kill on what is, as I suspected, not actually the final boss of Deathstate, but actually the Mom of Deathstate. oh well I killed it! blue demon carry me to victory
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2016 00:16
|
|
|
Looked at Dungeonmans a while ago, but gave it a pass because I don't enjoy getting splatted by monsters with very little recourse, and knew I would be far more likely to quit after a few insta-gibs. Seeing how active the dev is, particularly on this issue, means let's sacrifice some Dungeonmans    
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2016 00:19
|
|
|
SpruceZeus posted:woop woop got my first kill on what is, as I suspected, not actually the final boss of Deathstate, but actually the Mom of Deathstate. I just played a bunch more and while I didn't get that far, I did beat the first zone's boss a couple times and broke some shrines to summon a cthulhu and kicked it's butt. I'm really bad at dodging and also dodge into stuff all the time. Still trying to figure out where exactly the hitbox is because sometimes I get hit when it doesn't look like I should.
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2016 00:33
|
|
|
RubberBands Hurt posted:Looked at Dungeonmans a while ago, but gave it a pass because I don't enjoy getting splatted by monsters with very little recourse, and knew I would be far more likely to quit after a few insta-gibs. Yeah, between madjack, the Qud crew, and this mysterious new dark horse with their newfangled "Deathstate" game, we seem to be spoiled for choice when it comes to responsive, approachable roguelike devs. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2016 00:43
|
|
|
baram. posted:I just played a bunch more and while I didn't get that far, I did beat the first zone's boss a couple times and broke some shrines to summon a cthulhu and kicked it's butt. I'm really bad at dodging and also dodge into stuff all the time. Still trying to figure out where exactly the hitbox is because sometimes I get hit when it doesn't look like I should. there's an option in the menu to make your hitbox visible. the crystal skull shrines will make the game harder but i think (?) you also get better rewards. plus the stuff you get for killing the boss that gets summoned. e: when i said 'headache' earlier i was exaggerating slightly but i do get SERIOUSLY intense eyestrain if i play more than a round or two in a row. oh well maybe this will help encourage me to not throw my life away just playing this game all day  also as far as i can tell turning the scan lines toggle in the options to 'off' actually turns them on and vice versa.
SpruceZeus fucked around with this message at 01:02 on Apr 21, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2016 00:59
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 27, 2024 11:50 |
|
|
Angry Diplomat posted:Yeah, between madjack, the Qud crew, and this mysterious new dark horse with their newfangled "Deathstate" game, we seem to be spoiled for choice when it comes to responsive, approachable roguelike devs. Don't forget PleasingFungus and Kyzrati!
|
|
#
?
Apr 21, 2016 01:22
|
|
