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Angry Diplomat posted:responsive, approachable
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Apr 21, 2016 01:57
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hito posted:Don't forget PleasingFungus and Kyzrati! i prefer to be thought of as an unresponsive and unapproachable dev. cultivate an air of mystique, maybe throw around some veiled death threats aimed at people's favorite characters... you know.
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Apr 21, 2016 02:12
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PleasingFungus posted:i prefer to be thought of as an unresponsive and unapproachable dev. cultivate an air of mystique, maybe throw around some veiled death threats aimed at people's favorite characters... you know. A roguelike where the dev can randomly drop into your game and gently caress you over would be pretty true to the classics, wouldn't it?
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Apr 21, 2016 02:15
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:A roguelike where the dev can randomly drop into your game and gently caress you over would be pretty true to the classics, wouldn't it? ToME allows for that sort of thing, right?
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Apr 21, 2016 02:17
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I think traditionally that's MUD territory.
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Apr 21, 2016 02:20
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:A roguelike where the dev can randomly drop into your game and gently caress you over would be pretty true to the classics, wouldn't it? Xom
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Apr 21, 2016 02:21
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madjackmcmad posted:ToME allows for that sort of thing, right? yep, it sure does
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Apr 21, 2016 02:42
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the Eye character + laser sword + artifact with extra projectiles active ability (forget the name) + king in yellow complete for good measure + tons of damage up organs = an Id that melted (both phases) in less than 30 seconds. also Eye's ending is very  eye think that Eye is the best. e: i don't know if extra projectiles actually affects the laser at all. eye's innate laser + the laser attacks sword definitely had an interaction, the width of the beam doubled and it did a lot more damage. the organs that normally change your firing pattern though (fire in a burst, fire in a spread, etc) didn't seem to affect it at all though, only give me more damage. SpruceZeus fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Apr 21, 2016 |
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Apr 21, 2016 03:28
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SpruceZeus posted:the Eye character + laser sword + artifact with extra projectiles active ability (forget the name) + king in yellow complete for good measure + tons of damage up organs = an Id that melted (both phases) in less than 30 seconds. wat
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Apr 21, 2016 03:49
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SpruceZeus posted:eye think that Eye is the best. Congratulations on your correct opinion. For a while Pumpkin Man was in the running, but now that whatever the laser dps bug was is fixed, Eye is the clear winner.
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Apr 21, 2016 04:10
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"Deathstate", I assume?
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Apr 21, 2016 04:22
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madjackmcmad posted:ToME allows for that sort of thing, right? Allows for, yeah. In practice I've never seen DarkGod do anything but hand out buffs, gimmick abilities, and unlock special dungeons.
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Apr 21, 2016 06:44
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superh posted:Wow, seriously, thank you guys!!  feedback: gently caress you! seriously though i just played for over an hour, stopped to post this and im gonna go play a little more i think. fun game.
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Apr 21, 2016 09:46
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I like how in Dungeon of the Endless, you get all your characters in a hero pose from the back on the end card where it shows you your score after the little cutscene of the ship blowing up and some meteors crashing down. Last time I played Deathstate, zones 3 and 4 still felt kind of bullshit and spammy but that was some months ago. Is that still true? [/edit] I still can't play the eyeball. He dies too fast. I usually play the slow dude with lots of health, the priest I think? HeartNotes3 fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Apr 21, 2016 |
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Apr 21, 2016 15:21
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Allows for, yeah. In practice I've never seen DarkGod do anything but hand out buffs, gimmick abilities, and unlock special dungeons. I think DarkGod once obliged a player who asked him to spawn "the most powerful enemy possible" by spawning the megaboss wizard lady from the wizard town (the one who can teleport you to Storm Peak or w/e it's called) except hostile and level one million or something ridiculous like that. I do remember seeing him often drop by the ingame chat and shoot the poo poo with people. He seems like a pretty chill dev.
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Apr 21, 2016 15:49
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Extra Shots doesn't actually work like I was assuming it did. Once I paid attention for a second I realized it doesn't actually interact with your main attack at all... it's just an active ability that... fires extra shots... also i said this before but drat getting the Golden Gladius with Eye is INCREDIBLY strong. I think it might actually just straight up double your damage. also also I was assuming the reason I had 'luck abounds' before was desecrating an altar, but actually it's the Starchild Cataract Eye that does that. Sometimes. Or sometimes it does other things. I picked one up just now and got Sale! which seems obvious as to what it does, and Enemy Team, which is less so. Very good item though for sure. it does, however, seem like there are definitely more elites that spawn the more levels of desecration you have, so you still get more items in that way, at least. e: and now next floor I have Luck Abounds instead? I guess Expanded Insight just causes a different random passive effect every layer? ee: man desecrated grave of time is miserable, that was a really good run i just lost. it's those horned beetle guys - they spread that slime everywhere and it slows the pace of the game down to a crawl. you either have to spend a million years waiting for that gunk to go away and die to time out, or rush and die to bullets. it sucks eee: okay but for real though what is this weird effect i keep seeing occasionally? it keeps happening on certain layers sometimes and i'm convinced there's some significance to it but i dunno what:  
SpruceZeus fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Apr 21, 2016 |
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Apr 21, 2016 18:06
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It's entirely a visual thing and it's quite annoying.
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Apr 21, 2016 19:20
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It actually doubles damage, given and taken, while standing inside it
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Apr 21, 2016 19:44
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how curious. i maintain that the black fog overlay thats constantly at the edges of the screen and all the static and distortion effects the game constantly uses are really distracting and hard on the eyes (its a bit less of a problem with for instance the shoggoth like enemies where that's like their whole gimmick, but its really awful having everything turn into a huge garbled mess when i get hit, or when changing stages... it would be cool to have an option to at least tone down the effects a bit at least) the biggest problem i have with the damage field though is that enemy projectiles don't get the same colored outline that most other things do so they just completely blend into the background inside of it, which feels a little unfair (you can actually see what i'm talking about in the uppermost screenshot there)
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Apr 21, 2016 20:03
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:My favorite RPG combat engine ever was the Grandia II engine (well, the Grandia engine in general), and it's one I've been kind of wanting to try replicating in a pseudo-roguelike format. It's a realtime-with-pause engine, where each actor in the fight has multiple phases: Recovery -> Select Action -> Charge -> Execute Action -> Recovery. Depending on the action the actor wants to perform, some of these phases are longer than others. E.g. casting a spell has a long charge time but an instantaneous execution time, while attacking has no charge time whatsoever, but execution involves running over to the target so you can whack them in the face. Defending has instant charge and execute, and lasts until you finish your recovery phase. Every time an actor takes damage, they briefly pause in their current phase, and if they get hit by attacks with the Cancel property while in the Charge phase, then they get booted back to Recovery. This allows the careful player to see nasty attacks coming and take reactive steps to protect themselves, and it requires fun judgement calls like "do I have enough time to run up to this guy and cancel his attack before he reaches my healer and spikes her?", or "will my spell go off before his does if I pick a lower-level, faster-charging spell?" I really dig the active time spell stuff, juggling foomblasts is great https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGmjqMiU63k Edit: And, like all good games should let you do: you can crush monsters to collect Proofs! 
madjackmcmad fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Apr 21, 2016 |
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Apr 21, 2016 21:09
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IronicDongz posted:It's entirely a visual thing and it's quite annoying.
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Apr 21, 2016 21:11
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madjackmcmad posted:I just saw this video today, seems pretty similar in mechanics! Game drops in a couple of months. Looks nifty, and I applaud anyone trying to make classic JRPG combat be more than just taking turns selecting options from menus. I think one of the key things from the Grandia engine though that isn't represented in that video, is that multiple actors can be "taking turns" simultaneously. Like, in a fight between four party members and six enemies, at the time you're deciding what party member A should do, party member B is running over to attack the enemy caster (who is currently charging a spell you really don't want to have go off), enemies C and D are dogpiling party member E (the cute fuzzy mascot character), and party member F is in the recovery phase from having just cast a healing spell. This creates opportunities for judgement calls and stylish play -- where you can try to get your attack in just before the enemy's attack goes off, or place a spell where the enemy is about to be, or even just have your actors move out of the area of effect of an incoming spell. Basically the only time an actor in a Grandia game isn't doing anything is when they're in the recovery phase from their last action. And even then, if that actor gets attacked, it has a meaningful effect on the battle, as that delays their next action. EDIT: a video would probably help to explain how it works. TooMuchAbstraction fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Apr 21, 2016 |
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Apr 21, 2016 21:37
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one thing i dont really like in deathstate is how the time's up mechanic on a level works. you get the message and then randomly like 30 seconds later you just start taking damage out of nowhere. i much prefer to have something chase me like spelunky
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Apr 21, 2016 22:01
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Wall of text! Might be better suited for the Dungeonmans thread, but since we're having the discussion here.Angry Diplomat posted:After playing Dungeonmans a bit (okay, a lot) more the other night, fuckin' monsters man wtf jesus What's Survivorship Bias?  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_biasMy favorite example is the story of Abraham Wald. He was a mathematician in WW2 who was part of the Allied effort to make long range bombers survive longer. Bigass planes that got shot down way too often, the brass wanted to armor them up to help the survival rate and allow them to take more hits. Thing is, they were planes, and couldn't be armored too much or they wouldn't fly. They needed to know where the best places to put the armor would be, and so they asked Wald to drop the science on them. They had examples of a whole mess of planes that made it back from runs alive, and were shot up in the wings, body, and around the tail gunner. The plan was to armor up those spots -- made sense, since that's where the holes were! Wald replied with, effectively, "lol no." The planes that made it back had survived despite being shot up in those places. Which means those particular places weren't so vital to the plane -- planes that got rekt in the skies of fight must have been shot elsewhere. So let's armor them elsewhere! How does this translate to roguelike dev? The survivors: players who cleared the Dread Spire and submitted their characters, were geared in the way they thought was best to win, and had stats that represented a lot of grinding and super cool loot drops. Specifically, I used the average health pools of high level survivors to determine just how challenging some of the end tier monsters should be. Stupidly, that left a big gulf between those cock diesel survivors and everyone else, players who might have been having a pretty good run with pretty good stats, but (sometimes unfairly) mulched by higher level encounters, specifically Ancient Kings. These people are not poo poo-tier players, not if they make it to level 12 with complex, synergistic builds and decent Academies. What's even worse is those survivors usually had a build that avoided melee entirely. If they were able to crush enemies from range consistently and never take hits, their data was even more useless because it didn't represent people building Dungeonmens without wild gimmicks. So what I'd effectively done is push high end enemy stats even further toward "You need a ridic health pool and/or a gimmick build to win" and that's bad. I'm not even talking about the oneshots from Cryomistresses and Undead Rangermens, those were unique mistakes that were hand corrected, this is about my philosophy in general. Tonight's patch will reduce the damage on those high end monsters. It might be too much, we'll see. But I'm really tired of making people feel like they got screwed without recourse, especially when in Adventurous dungeons. e: This is a L15 Ancient King going ham on a L15 dungeonmans with 50 stremf and a full suit of unenchanted T4 heavy armor.  No wise player would ever go into this situation without enchants or buffs, but if they did, they still aren't going to get 1 shot here. It is still possible that an out of depth monster appears, promoted to Ancient King, and will raise hell, but if the monster is level 10 or higher, it will be less hell. madjackmcmad fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Apr 22, 2016 |
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Apr 22, 2016 05:48
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Awesome! posted:one thing i dont really like in deathstate is how the time's up mechanic on a level works. you get the message and then randomly like 30 seconds later you just start taking damage out of nowhere. i much prefer to have something chase me like spelunky Uhm, that's not how it works. Once you get the message a cloud of death that deals damage to you starts creeping up from the lower end of the level, upwards towards the portal. If you remain in the cloud, you take damage. If you move out of it - you don't. This is, in fact, one of the few non-arbitrary things in the game.
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Apr 22, 2016 06:01
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Deathstate looks real cool. Can't play it though. I get the skull on load, then a black screen. Hitting spacebar enough times gets me to the game, but the player is mostly obscured by a black box, as are all the bullets that come in and go out. Also there's shifting black boxes all around the edges of the screen. I might try fiddling with the resolutions settings if hitting escape did anything but bring up a black box with no words on it.
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Apr 22, 2016 06:23
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Jenx posted:Uhm, that's not how it works. Once you get the message a cloud of death that deals damage to you starts creeping up from the lower end of the level, upwards towards the portal. If you remain in the cloud, you take damage. If you move out of it - you don't. This is, in fact, one of the few non-arbitrary things in the game. huh, guess ill have to pay more attention to the bottom of my screen. i didnt notice any clouds
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Apr 22, 2016 06:41
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madjackmcmad posted:Wall of text! Might be better suited for the Dungeonmans thread, but since we're having the discussion here. Which leads to the more general question - what are some of the tools and techniques you've used to balance dmans? I'm only really used to game balance from Doom maps, where you basically just iterate over and over again with players and do next to no data driven balancing, but I'm pretty sure that's not an effective solution for roguelike games where the possibility space is just so drat huge.
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Apr 22, 2016 06:59
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madjackmcmad posted:I just saw this video today, seems pretty similar in mechanics! Game drops in a couple of months. oh poo poo that looks good
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Apr 22, 2016 07:21
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madjackmcmad posted:Wall of text! Might be better suited for the Dungeonmans thread, but since we're having the discussion here. I mostly read this thread in the hopes that I'll catch stuff like this.
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Apr 22, 2016 07:30
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Jordan7hm posted:It's always really surprising and refreshing to see a developer re-assess his design philosophy. Thanks for posting that here. I tried to balance enemy damage by starting with the base rule that if you're not wearing any armor and an on-level enemy punches you in the face five times, you'll die. So when an enemy is spawned at a given level, the base damage (before any special modifiers) is 20% of the expected Dungeonmans health for that level. Not your actual health! If your stats are low and you're not geared, you'll be hurting, but if you're drunk on Proofs and pimped out in loot, you'll excel. And then consider that you're wearing armor, dodging, or using Light Shield to soak up damage, and you'll last much longer than 5 hits. The one shots in dmans came from two (main) places 1) Specific enemy powers that were way OP 2) Level 13-15 champions attacking level 10-12 characters. The data for #2 comes from post-game reports, one of which is submitted by every internet connected player when they die. But, it only captures the end build (along with inventory, choice of perks, academy status, and last 100 lines of log). I use the data to determine the average health of a successful* (see post above!) Dungeonmans at level whatever. You don't *have* to die and launch new mens to win Dungeonmans, but each new mans ends up a little better than the last, and the proofs keep piling up, meaning that the stats go up too. One thing I did for the 2010 build of dmans and should start doing again is keeping a snapshot of every level up: what your stats were the moment you went from X to X+1, so I can build a better, cleaner curve for this type of scaling.
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Apr 22, 2016 09:08
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Going to try Dungeonmans again, does someone has a fool-proof build? Apparently I'm really bad at this game.
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Apr 22, 2016 10:12
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Angry Lobster posted:Going to try Dungeonmans again, does someone has a fool-proof build? Apparently I'm really bad at this game. Polearm-Shield-Cartography, unlock King of Battle, kick rear end. I'd probably go with Real Armor, and you'll want points in the banners sooner or later. Alternatively, Grimdark Darkmans lets you use a bow because it's 2h instead of polearm/shield, which makes the early game a lot easier. Both are juggernauts in the late game, and both are a lot of fun, so I'd recommend either. You need Legendary Armsman, Deadcrafting, Necronomics for the Grimdark mastery. I think Grimdark might be a little easier, on account of having pets around always acts as a safety buffer against dangerous enemies, but they're both really powerful. If you go for Grimdark, don't over-invest in Ranger skills, you'll need the extra points to flesh out your necromancy/darkness skills later. Sword&Shield is really good and pretty easy to use, but because it's all melee, you really need to know what's safe to tangle with at close range, and make sure your resists/gear/consumables are on point or you'll get into unrecoverable trouble. Wizard stuff is good top to bottom, but also requires a bit more careful resource management and you're squishier early game. Consider cherry picking tricksonometry if you go for King of Battle, it has a lot of get out of jail free cards. I'd avoid dual wield or southern gentlemans, and I haven't tested psychomansy enough to know what it'd fit well with.
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Apr 22, 2016 10:21
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victrix posted:Really helpful stuff Thanks a lot sir, just what I needed, I'll try it out when the new patch goes live and we shall see how far I make it this time.
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Apr 22, 2016 11:06
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Angry Lobster posted:Going to try Dungeonmans again, does someone has a fool-proof build? Apparently I'm really bad at this game. Most builds work pretty well imo; I really like the Psychomanser tree My favorite thing about Dungeonmans is when you start getting skills from the Library; I always go in with the Dungeonmans build (no pre-assigned skills, 5 free points), and then build my character around the four random skills I get at the start I wish more games would do this; throw about half of your character together randomly, and let you decide what the other half is like. I can see this being difficult, though, unless you have a system in which it's nearly impossible to hose a character build.
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Apr 22, 2016 11:44
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madjackmcmad posted:I have decided to radically reevaluate my entire dev philosophy based upon a combination of player feedback and war-era aeronautical engineering methodology Jesus Christ what a good dev
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Apr 22, 2016 12:02
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Christmas Present posted:I wish more games would do this; throw about half of your character together randomly, and let you decide what the other half is like. I can see this being difficult, though, unless you have a system in which it's nearly impossible to hose a character build. You can do this in Dredmor too; the "random build" button lets you edit your build before actually starting the game. Hit "random", keep the first four skills, replace the last three with something of your choice. I can't think of any others offhand.
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Apr 22, 2016 13:06
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Unity using roguelike devs up in here: this package of fantasy icons and avatars is free today (22 April 16) iffffff you want a whole mess of icons which you could likely even use in your non-Unity game. https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/59045
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Apr 22, 2016 15:31
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madjackmcmad posted:Unity using roguelike devs up in here: this package of fantasy icons and avatars is free today (22 April 16) iffffff you want a whole mess of icons which you could likely even use in your non-Unity game. https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/59045 
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Apr 22, 2016 15:49
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Hey superh fuuuuuuck yooooouuuuuu Seriously though I think that is a great potion effect and hilariously evil.
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Apr 22, 2016 17:17
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