|
Panzer Skank posted:I largely agree with this, parts of it definitely feel overdone. I do strongly get the impression though that this is a guy who loves his own voice so much he gives monologues to himself while he jerks off. He probably gave a monologue to Chloe after he shot her. I can vividly imagine him giving a lengthy speech to Max while she's knocked out in the back seat of his car, driving to the dark room. On one hand, yeah it's exposition from the writer directly, but on the other hand a thought bubble appears over my head of him giving a fuckin hour long speech to Nathan's corpse while digging a grave for him. Pretty much. Guy loves to lecture, he's just changed gears. The writing here didn't get to me that much but that's mainly because the dialogue in Episode 1 was so bad it kind of made everything afterward seem glowing by comparison.
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2016 20:12
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 23:17 |
|
|
Panzer Skank posted:I largely agree with this, parts of it definitely feel overdone. I do strongly get the impression though that this is a guy who loves his own voice so much he gives monologues to himself while he jerks off. He probably gave a monologue to Chloe after he shot her. I can vividly imagine him giving a lengthy speech to Max while she's knocked out in the back seat of his car, driving to the dark room. On one hand, yeah it's exposition from the writer directly, but on the other hand a thought bubble appears over my head of him giving a fuckin hour long speech to Nathan's corpse while digging a grave for him. Okay, so, I hadn't really run with the consequences of taking this scene seriously, but now that you've done it for me it has made everything about it so much better. Thank you for these incredible images. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Apr 25, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2016 20:13
|
|
|
Panzer Skank posted:I largely agree with this, parts of it definitely feel overdone. I do strongly get the impression though that this is a guy who loves his own voice so much he gives monologues to himself while he jerks off. He probably gave a monologue to Chloe after he shot her. I can vividly imagine him giving a lengthy speech to Max while she's knocked out in the back seat of his car, driving to the dark room. On one hand, yeah it's exposition from the writer directly, but on the other hand a thought bubble appears over my head of him giving a fuckin hour long speech to Nathan's corpse while digging a grave for him. I definitely agree. He's literally shown shouting at drugged Max while photographing her. It's disgusting but this is Jefferson's hobby and he's probably super excited to talk about it with someone that he thinks can understand.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2016 20:16
|
|
|
Man. This part of the game was eye opening for me. I've always considered myself as someone who would love to abolish ape, especially date rape, as even a mere concept concept. I've heard of how horrifying it can be, but it wasn't until this part of the game that...I felt violated. I've always had a strong mental link regarding protagonist = me, and this part of the game just made me feel like something horrible happened to me and I had no memory of any of it. And I knew to enact justice I would have to go back and try to process through what happened but a little voice in the back of my head warned me I was going to be sick and disgusted with what I found out. With Kate having gone through the same, I can easily see why she would feel so evasive and retreat about what happened. It was emotionally devastating to go through this. This section is extremely powerful as making the player experience everything that makes rape utterly horrifying without actually including any of the sexual context. The writing may fall a little bit at this point of the game, but it manages to nail the emotion and horror with it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2016 20:18
|
|
|
I'm not particularly sold on the performance for Mr. Jefferson in the Dark Room. Rather than "Oh, his nice teacher persona is a lie and he's actually a snarling psychopath," I think it would be more chilling if he were played exactly the same (maybe with occasional outbursts), so he is still the "hip" teacher who just happens to like drugging and photographing girls and thinks that is a perfectly fine thing to do.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2016 20:22
|
|
|
That all got tied up way too neat and tidy way too easily. Looking forward to the disastrous side-effects.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2016 20:24
|
|
|
VVVV Whoops, I clearly missed that. 
suddenly cats fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Apr 25, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2016 20:46
|
|
|
The first image clearly shows that she sent the text (if she hadn't, it would still be in the text box underneath). She then deletes the evidence of her involvement afterwards for some reason.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2016 20:47
|
|
|
GladRagKraken posted:Disappointing that after all the playing up the "Your choices matter" angle the end here erases all the choices you've made. The choices you make before this point being you to this point so you can make the choice that ultimately wipe them out. So they matter even if they, ultimately, never happened. CoffeeQaddaffi fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Apr 25, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2016 20:47
|
|
|
wait, who DOESNT monologue to themselves while masturbating??
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2016 20:57
|
|
|
Kaubocks posted:wait, who DOESNT monologue to themselves while masturbating?? The Dark Room scene is a big trip and it is a pretty hammy scene but it also...I dunno how to articulate it. You know this isn't a fake game over scenario, you're still in charge of Max, and yeah really bad things are happening to you. But both you and Max are waiting for that one moment you can take advantage of to survive and while both of you are a little savvy about the fact that nothing really BAD can happen to you, that doesn't lessen the impact of the moment any more (if any of that makes any sense). It's not like the buzzsaw scene in Outlast: Whistleblower where it's like "okay this clearly isn't going to happen so how is this going to get derailed" or the part in Bioshock Infinite: Burial at Sea where Atlas tortures Elizabeth with a lobotomy pick and it's just like "wow you're just doing this to be edgy and hurt my character, huh". No, this scene is really a lot like the power drill torture scene in The Darkness where Jackie is in pain but he's laughing at his tormentors because he knows something they don't know. Max's powers and knowledge may make this scene much more survivable but it doesn't make the gravity of the situation any different because she has to wait for that moment but in the meantime...she still has to endure. Torture of your characters is really hard to write well and make it more than just "EMPATHIZE BECAUSE THEY ARE BEING HURT". Vox Valentine fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Apr 25, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2016 21:19
|
|
|
Surprise Pizza posted:I'm not particularly sold on the performance for Mr. Jefferson in the Dark Room. Rather than "Oh, his nice teacher persona is a lie and he's actually a snarling psychopath," I think it would be more chilling if he were played exactly the same (maybe with occasional outbursts), so he is still the "hip" teacher who just happens to like drugging and photographing girls and thinks that is a perfectly fine thing to do. This is what I was thinking the entire time. The touch of familiarity would have made it exponentially more creepy.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2016 21:19
|
|
|
The choices matter because they're about who Max actually is, according to you, the player. There are some constants, but I think the point is that through these choices each player is creating their own interpretation of Max as a person. Is Max the kind of person who would euthanize her dying best friend? Is she the kind that would just let a dude brutally beat down an rear end in a top hat? Would she let a dog die? The fact that Max has to leap to the beginning of the week and make a huge change, largely erasing what happened, doesn't mean the choices didn't "matter", because the choices were never about getting the best outcome. There have been plenty of games with choices where the choices do affect the ending, but the writers of Life is Strange seem to be hardcore subscribers to the Course Correction theory rather than Many Worlds Theory, so that was never in the cards here. And that's okay! Life is a journey rather than a destination, and this game is Max's journey. It's a bildungsroman, man.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2016 21:20
|
|
|
what's the time travel theory called where you can time travel but you can't change anything because time is a straight line so that shut would have already happened, like the movie Timecrimes it has nothing to do with this game that's just the time travel theory I like the most
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2016 21:30
|
|
|
Kaubocks posted:what's the time travel theory called where you can time travel but you can't change anything because time is a straight line so that shut would have already happened, like the movie Timecrimes
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2016 21:33
|
|
|
on a random note, after getting the reveal that jefferson was using nathan this entire time, it made me feel bad for treating him like complete poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2016 21:38
|
|
|
Dingwall posted:on a random note, after getting the reveal that jefferson was using nathan this entire time, it made me feel bad for treating him like complete poo poo. He is still a complete poo poo, though? I mean, he was still a willing participant, there's no evidence that Jefferson forced his hand, he just acted like a "father figure".
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2016 21:46
|
|
|
This came up in another thread and is very relevant to what just happened and how everyone is reacting to Jefferson monologuing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTUNaCT5R6I While the writers felt that it was important for Jefferson to elaborate in detail about his motivation and how Nathan and him work together it is a bit overwrought, especially compared to the video I linked which clearly channels so much of the same hatred and violence mixed with betrayal because of who is speaking. It would have been possible to convey a lot of what Jefferson was going for here with much much less conversation; he could gaze at one of his photos commenting on the shift in Max that he thinks it captures without involving her, etc. Hell he could wave it in front of Maxs' face and she could have leaped back into it and moved at that moment, just to ruin the shot and take it away from him. But they didn't, so I'm guessing it's important that we know that Nathan is manipulated and screwed up rather than going into it with as much clear perspective as could be expected from a teenager with mental health and family problems. I'm quite surprised that we jumped back to that photo though, I expected the unravelling to come from another plot-based photo, although there is still time (so to speak). Also I was happy to see Chloe and Max still hanging out in the later photos 
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2016 21:46
|
|
|
GlyphGryph posted:He is still a complete poo poo, though? I mean, he was still a willing participant, there's no evidence that Jefferson forced his hand, he just acted like a "father figure". oh no, absolutely. i still thought of him as a complete piece of poo poo except: taken out. but, i still let warren beat him up because. well, just because. and jefferson acting like a father figure is just ... *shudder* Dingwall fucked around with this message at 00:46 on Apr 26, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2016 21:54
|
|
|
edit: nevermind I fat fingered the spoiler tag without realizing it and didn't know you had, in fact, spoilered it. still I debate the necessity of mentioning that at all at this point
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2016 22:05
|
|
|
Dingwall posted:oh no, absolutely. i still thought of him as a complete piece of poo poo except: Actually could I ask you to please nix this spoiler? We'll be seeing this event soon Also in general could i just take a sec to say how much i appreciate the discussion so far in this thread? i really like being able to discuss things people dislike about this game without it turning into a fight, I think the criticism is really interesting! also the fact that the subject matter for the latter portions of this game is extremely uncomfortable and for the most part ya'll have been extremely respectful and insightful.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2016 22:55
|
|
|
Wow I didn't even know you could actually talk to Victoria before making the second photo leap. Also Panzer I don't know if you're intentionally not going to the journal's page for the photos to avoid potential spoilers but I find the little doodle the game gives you to help remember to take Kate's picture adorable: 
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2016 23:42
|
|
|
So, for those who have the game and have played it through a few times, how much can we really change with choices? I mean, it looks like episodes 1-4 are just going to sort of disappear to wherever time that didn't happen goes (which will really annoy me if it does happen) but ignoring that possibility, just talking about the timeline up to where Max is captured. For example: can we "save" Victoria by not warning her? Or does she win the contest and go talk to Jefferson on the night of the party regardless of what we do? Does it really matter who we blame for Kate--can we put an earlier stop to all this by blaming Jefferson? Is there any way for Chloe to not get killed? Panzer, are you planning to do a full run-through with different choices? All the stuff we didn't pick this time, like failing to save Kate, not warning Victoria, siding with David against Chloe, etc.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2016 00:02
|
|
|
Akratic Method posted:So, for those who have the game and have played it through a few times, how much can we really change with choices? I mean, it looks like episodes 1-4 are just going to sort of disappear to wherever time that didn't happen goes (which will really annoy me if it does happen) but ignoring that possibility, just talking about the timeline up to where Max is captured. Victoria doesn't go to the Creepy Photograph Murder Basement if you don't warn her, yes. Kindness kills!
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2016 00:09
|
|
|
Panzer Skank posted:Actually could I ask you to please nix this spoiler? We'll be seeing this event soon taken out. but i'll discuss it pretty soon. c: in my play through, victoria didn't even believe me. but then again, i kept the photograph of her covered in paint because i'm a rightful bastard. i want to talk about the whole thing with chloe but it's all spoilllers :x
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2016 00:48
|
|
|
Anti-Citizen posted:I love that photo you take, not just for the gently caress you Mr. Jefferson it is, but how it's at it's core a bit of defiance against his thesis. This is maybe the best bit of writing I've seen so far, right on the heels of some of the worst. Thanks for pointing that out.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2016 00:57
|
|
|
Dingwall posted:in my play through, victoria didn't even believe me. but then again, i kept the photograph of her covered in paint because i'm a rightful bastard. Ok, so at least there's some variation, although so far it doesn't seem to matter whether Victoria is there. I'll wait and see how the rest of episode 5 plays out, and then I guess this will be freely open to discussion.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2016 01:46
|
|
|
Ahhh the part where everything in this game starts to really hit crazy town. I do love the 5th chapter of this game, even with some of the poo poo that happens later.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2016 02:05
|
|
|
These kind of games usually converge on the main plot in the final episode anyway. Besides, we're only just beginning.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2016 02:11
|
|
|
Oh the Dark Room. like where you develop photos.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2016 02:30
|
|
|
so this is a thing i've wondered about since the first time i saw this part of the game: is there ever anything implying (or explicitly showing) that the girls are being sexual assaulted in the dark room by jefferson? he's a horrible and creepy rear end in a top hat but i'm not sure it ever talks about him going that far.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2016 02:39
|
|
|
shroomich posted:so this is a thing i've wondered about since the first time i saw this part of the game: is there ever anything implying (or explicitly showing) that the girls are being sexual assaulted in the dark room by jefferson? he's a horrible and creepy rear end in a top hat but i'm not sure it ever talks about him going that far. The whole point is that its rape without sex, because the sex part isn't what actually matters to rapists.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2016 03:10
|
|
|
KasaiAisu posted:How great would it be though if we got a New Game + where Max gets sunglasses and just speedruns life, doing everything the best way possible Yessss this sort of happened! In the span of like a minute we called the police, gave Kate support, gave advice(?) to Victoria and shot down Mr. Jefferson. Good job Max you're the best protagonist. I wonder where the story goes from here? Isn't this a good end?
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2016 03:44
|
|
|
I haven't watched the current episode yet, but I figure all those apocalypse events are happening because Max saved Chloe in the very beginning and the climactic choice is gonna be whether to die in the tornado with her or go back in time and let her be shot. It's a very time travel plot thing to do and I hope it doesn't happen
Lessail fucked around with this message at 03:52 on Apr 26, 2016 |
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2016 03:49
|
|
|
I think Jefferson knows we have time powers, or some kind of special ability. His talk about how special Max is was something more than it should have been otherwise, and I think he has some occult plans beneath his gross-rear end assaults.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2016 04:01
|
|
|
I hate Mark Jefferson and I made this thing to show it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2016 04:12
|
|
|
General Ironicus posted:I think Jefferson knows we have time powers, or some kind of special ability. His talk about how special Max is was something more than it should have been otherwise, and I think he has some occult plans beneath his gross-rear end assaults. He's actually also a timelord. The final boss of the game is a Matrix-esque fight with Jefferson inside of a timebubble as the tornado destroys the town around them. Max finally destroys him by using all the positive energy throughout human existence to form a spirit bomb of bicurious hipster-love , before wishing Rachel back to life using the dragon balls. sorry for the spoilers.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2016 04:16
|
|
|
this is almost as uncomfortable to watch as it was to play
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2016 04:45
|
|
|
I had completely forgotten about the choice to warn Victoria or not, and when I saw the way people were voting, I was close to screaming at my computer screen. I knew holding back spoilers was going to be rough, but that was the one moment I almost broke. This is the most painful timeline.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2016 05:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 23:17 |
|
|
hawk16zz posted:I hate Mark Jefferson and I made this thing to show it. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2016 07:19
|
|