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Kurzon posted:People are arguing fiercely whether it's better or worse than Winter Soldier. Since Winter Soldier was widely considered the best film in the MCU, that's a good sign of how good Civil War is. It's not as good as Winter Soldier. Winter Soldier was a right mess, but at least it had the good grace to actually star the country in the film's title. Meanwhile, this film flashes up location names constantly because they somehow make 5 different places look almost alike.
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May 4, 2016 21:58
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Kurzon posted:People are arguing fiercely whether it's better or worse than Winter Soldier. Since Winter Soldier was widely considered the best film in the MCU, that's a good sign of how good Civil War is. CW is nowhere near as good as WS. The fight choreography, apart from anything else, sets WS way above it.
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May 4, 2016 21:58
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Chocolate Teapot posted:Winter Soldier was a right mess, but at least it had the good grace to actually star the country in the film's title. Meanwhile, this film flashes up location names constantly because they somehow make 5 different places look almost alike. It's called Captain America, not The Captain in America.
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May 4, 2016 22:05
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Chocolate Teapot posted:It's not as good as Winter Soldier. Cavelcade posted:CW is nowhere near as good as WS. The fight choreography, apart from anything else, sets WS way above it. Alright,thanks. I'm not seeing it.
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May 4, 2016 22:07
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VolticSurge posted:Alright,for someone like who hasn't seen it, is it good? I liked Winter Soldier and thought Age of Ultron was It's the best Avengers movie and the worst Captain America movie.
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May 4, 2016 22:09
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for reference. No spoilers,please.
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Any conversation about the best MCU movie should end after everyone agrees on GotG. Like, it's not even a fair contest.
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May 4, 2016 22:55
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LesterGroans posted:It's the best Avengers movie and the worst Captain America movie. This is the most apt description when comparing it to all MCU films imo.
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May 4, 2016 22:59
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VolticSurge posted:Alright,thanks. I'm not seeing it. It's either as good as or better than WINTER SOLDIER.
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May 4, 2016 23:34
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I think it's a tad bit better than the Winter Soldier, and I really really love the Winter Soldier. Either way, it's a drat good movie.
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May 5, 2016 00:07
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VolticSurge posted:Alright,thanks. I'm not seeing it. It's better than Winter soldier and just plain a very good movie.
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May 5, 2016 00:39
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:It's better than Winter soldier and just plain a very good movie. This. What I find really interesting is that Peter's motivation for fighting is literally that "If you see someone and don't help then you're responsible." The accords run exactly counter to that intuition and so what Peter's conscience tells him is the same as Cap's. But he's fighting for Stark. To me this is probably the biggest indictment of Stark's team, despite the fact that broadly I agree with the accords on a personal level.
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May 5, 2016 02:05
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Chocolate Teapot posted:It's not as good as Winter Soldier. Are you seriously mad because AMERICA doesn't figure in prominently enough in the movie because that's the most absurd criticism to level against the movie. EDIT: This sounds like something Donald Trump would bitch about. Stunt Rock fucked around with this message at 03:46 on May 5, 2016 |
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May 5, 2016 03:39
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It's better than Winter Soldier and the plot makes a lot more sense than SHIELD having been HYDRA all along.
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May 5, 2016 07:48
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Stunt Rock posted:Are you seriously mad because AMERICA doesn't figure in prominently enough in the movie because that's the most absurd criticism to level against the movie. It's not just that it's not about America - the movie isn't really about the American experience either. That's a terrible choice.
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May 5, 2016 08:24
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The political motivations behind the "civil war" itself are extremely American. Which is partially why it's such a shame that the Bucky plot overshadowed it so much.
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May 5, 2016 08:32
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Chocolate Teapot posted:It's not as good as Winter Soldier. Thor: The Dark World was mostly set on worlds that were well lit. Avengers: Age of Ultron covered a period of time of roughly a week, it was nowhere near an age. Those clowns at Marvel are just making poo poo up, don't they know how hard they're triggering my OCD???!?? 
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May 5, 2016 08:37
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Yorkshire Tea posted:This. Spiderman and Antman are the best part of the movie. It's a shame they're only in it for a fight that only gets good once Antman decides to be gigantic. doverhog posted:It's better than Winter Soldier and the plot makes a lot more sense than SHIELD having been HYDRA all along. The plot of Winter Soldier is that people who want order at any cost shouldn't be given unilateral control to drone bomb all their enemies without trial. It gets mixed up with this Hydra stuff and is worse for it, but it's a functional plot that makes sense. Out of curiosity, what do you think is better about it than Winter Soldier?
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May 5, 2016 09:01
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A question I have because I'm not watching SHIELD, but what is the status of Hydra at this point? I can't remember if they've been dismantled or not.
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May 5, 2016 10:00
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DrVenkman posted:A question I have because I'm not watching SHIELD, but what is the status of Hydra at this point? I can't remember if they've been dismantled or not. Their last big leader Powers Boothe (from Avengers 1) was killed by the ancient Inhuman god that the founders of Hydra worshipped. Then General Talbot (from the Hulk comics) used info obtained from him to launch a simultaneous worldwide 'decapitation' attack on all known Hydra assets and bases. Any remaining Hydra troops accounted for are now working for that ancient Inhuman.
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May 5, 2016 10:09
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SHIELD is all about Inhumans now. They are popping up everywhere and unless the movies start addressing that somehow the claim it's the same universe completely falls apart. Which it already did I guess, but even more so.Cavelcade posted:Out of curiosity, what do you think is better about it than Winter Soldier? The conflict about what's right in the abstract being translated into real conflict between the characters was nicely done. Also Cap being wrong was interesting. Don't get me wrong, Winter Soldier was good too. The real reason might just be that Civil War has more cool fights, stuff and characters in it and is more fresh in my memory.
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May 5, 2016 10:24
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doverhog posted:The conflict about what's right in the abstract being translated into real conflict between the characters was nicely done. Also Cap being wrong was interesting. Fair enough. I watched WS the first time about a week before going to CW and I thought the fights were way more satisfying in that. I think the elevator fight scene and the buildup to do it is one of the best Marvel's ever done, from how it's framed to how it's executed. I guess I was little disappointed that the accords kind of disappeared for the most part after act 1, when everyone started acting unilaterally anyway, including Iron Man.
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May 5, 2016 10:28
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doverhog posted:SHIELD is all about Inhumans now. They are popping up everywhere and unless the movies start addressing that somehow the claim it's the same universe completely falls apart. Which it already did I guess, but even more so. While Ike Perlmutter is in charge of TV it's never going to happen. He's taken that bitterness he had over getting ousted from heading up the movie division and used it to block any TV/Film crossover. It's essentially why no one knows Coulson is still alive. For all intents and purposes, he's still dead in the movieverse.
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May 5, 2016 10:33
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Cavelcade posted:I guess I was little disappointed that the accords kind of disappeared for the most part after act 1, when everyone started acting unilaterally anyway, including Iron Man.
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May 5, 2016 10:44
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Kurzon posted:In this movie, Cap is on a personal mission rather than an ideological crusade (as in the comic arc), but the Accords are what makes Iron Man get in his way. If there were no Accords, Iron Man would let Cap do as he please and may even help out. But those days are over. It's still ideological. The reason he refuses to sign the accords is actually what Tony's done to Wanda - he was willing to sign and take Bucky in until then. I don't think this is necessarily a flaw in the movie, since it's a bit of nuance - my problem is that after that scene it starts falling away in importance to Cap's quest for Bucky. I'd prefer if the ideological and personal missions were merged a bit better. Winter Soldier did a better job with how it handled its plot threads, I thought. Except making it be Hydra, the only Hydra element we needed was the guy who digitised his brain onto tapes because that was just amazing.
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May 5, 2016 11:08
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Kurzon posted:In this movie, Cap is on a personal mission rather than an ideological crusade (as in the comic arc), but the Accords are what makes Iron Man get in his way. If there were no Accords, Iron Man would let Cap do as he please and may even help out. But those days are over. Also the main point of contention is whether they should let the police shoot Bucky on sight because he blew up a UN meeting or whether he should be saved, when no one raised the point that his MO is to shoot people rather than blow them up so the whole situation is a bit suss. Also I guess no one bothered to follow due process and investigate the UN attack properly and actually build a case against Bucky but just went "Oh here's a blurry security photo that I guess matches this guy, let's go kill him." Snowglobe of Doom fucked around with this message at 11:16 on May 5, 2016 |
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May 5, 2016 11:13
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Is there any point in seeing it in Imax or is it like Age of Ultron where the one opening scene was worth it and the rest wasn't?
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May 5, 2016 13:07
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Also the main point of contention is whether they should let the police shoot Bucky on sight because he blew up a UN meeting or whether he should be saved, when no one raised the point that his MO is to shoot people rather than blow them up so the whole situation is a bit suss. Also I guess no one bothered to follow due process and investigate the UN attack properly and actually build a case against Bucky but just went "Oh here's a blurry security photo that I guess matches this guy, let's go kill him."
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May 5, 2016 15:42
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Those were all Robert Redford's crimes though.
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May 5, 2016 15:49
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The Onion reviews Civil War
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May 5, 2016 17:57
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I like this, making fun of people who feel every single character in a movie needs to be explained. doverhog posted:SHIELD is all about Inhumans now. They are popping up everywhere and unless the movies start addressing that somehow the claim it's the same universe completely falls apart. Which it already did I guess, but even more so. I've been assuming every modern day character in the movies and TV shows are going to show up in Infinity War.
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May 5, 2016 18:22
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I said come in! posted:I've been assuming every modern day character in the movies and TV shows are going to show up in Infinity War. Not if Ike has anything to say about it!
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May 5, 2016 18:38
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All the movie characters are going to be showing up (I don't know how confirmed that actually is, but the Russos did mention in an interview before that they're looking forward to working with Chris Pratt, so you can at least assume that's the case) but those poor TV folk are going nowhere near them. I'm sure it'll get mentioned though in Season 3 of Jessica Jones or whatever.
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May 5, 2016 19:27
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DrVenkman posted:All the movie characters are going to be showing up (I don't know how confirmed that actually is, but the Russos did mention in an interview before that they're looking forward to working with Chris Pratt, so you can at least assume that's the case) but those poor TV folk are going nowhere near them. I'm sure it'll get mentioned though in Season 3 of Jessica Jones or whatever. The Russos said Avengers 3 and 4 (still part 1 and part 2 at the time) would feature 70+ characters.
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May 5, 2016 19:39
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MacheteZombie posted:The Russos said Avengers 3 and 4 (still part 1 and part 2 at the time) would feature 70+ characters. Even if characters like Jessica Jones are just in there for a moment, it will be awesome to get a shot of every Marvel superhero standing together before a final battle or something.
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May 5, 2016 19:41
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MacheteZombie posted:The Russos said Avengers 3 and 4 (still part 1 and part 2 at the time) would feature 70+ characters. Even including the TV folks, I'm not sure how that is possible.
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May 5, 2016 20:05
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They seem to be building up Infinity War as the 'big finale' (at least for this mega-phase), so not taking every single opportunity to cram in heroes from all available media would be crazy. Also Daredevil and Jessica Jones are both way better than every existing MCU movie hero except the non-Starlord Guardians. e: Also I'm pretty much convinced that the Russos are waaaaaaaay out of their depth for a movie as big as this one is going to be. They've proven that they can make action movies that aren't Snyder level disasters, but I can't see them pulling off anything of a larger scale than Civil War. stev fucked around with this message at 20:07 on May 5, 2016 |
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May 5, 2016 20:05
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Some of those can be cameos, so whatever, cram them into one shot if they have to be there. There isn't enough room to have 70 characters doing something meaningful in one film. Civil war was pretty big, 250 mil budget. How much bigger can Infinity War really be?
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May 5, 2016 20:18
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Civil War definitively shows that everything that occurs in the MCU outside of Guardians is to put asses in seats for the next thing. It's the stinger/promise principle extended over the entire film, and why they allow Spider-Man and Ant-Man quips to steal the thunder away from what should by all means be a logical emotionally driven climax. Nothing has a satisfying conclusion because they can't afford to do anything they can't take back. Which is way characters "die" but don't, institutions get upended but not-really, friends become foes but not really. A series of films are strung together, and yet over the course of them, nothing matters, and they're about nothing.
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May 5, 2016 20:24
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MasterSitsu posted:Civil War definitively shows that everything that occurs in the MCU outside of Guardians is to put asses in seats for the next thing. It's the stinger/promise principle extended over the entire film, and why they allow Spider-Man and Ant-Man quips to steal the thunder away from what should by all means be a logical emotionally driven climax. Sounds like most superhero comics by Marvel and DC, sadly.
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May 5, 2016 20:51
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MasterSitsu posted:Nothing has a satisfying conclusion because they can't afford to do anything they can't take back. Which is way characters "die" but don't, institutions get upended but not-really, friends become foes but not really. A series of films are strung together, and yet over the course of them, nothing matters, and they're about nothing. Oh, and characters do die, namely the villains. Which actually is disappointing. We've lost Red Skull (?), Baron Strucker, and Crossbones. I expected Crossbones would actually last longer, given how his survival seemed to be a big deal in Winter Soldier. And Baron Strucker just gets punked so bad. At least they were smart enough to preserve Loki. Kurzon fucked around with this message at 21:38 on May 5, 2016 |
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May 5, 2016 21:22
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