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some bust on that guy
Jan 21, 2006

This avatar was paid for by the Silent Majority.

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

lol Reddit posted:

Intro

Today, GRRM released a (not-so-brand) new chapter on his website: TWOW, Arianne II. (This chapter was completed in 2010 and was originally read at Worldcon 2011, so it's not new really) He also provided a brief update on his TWOW progress on his notablog.:

You want to know what the Sand Snakes, Prince Doran, Areo Hotah, Ellaria Sand, Darkstar, and the rest will be up to in WINDS OF WINTER? Quite a lot, actually. The sample will give you a taste. For the rest, you will need to wait.

And no, just to spike any bullshit rumors, changing the sample chapter does NOT mean I am done. See the icon up above? Monkey is still on my back... but he's growing, he is, and one day...

The chapter thread has a lot of pessimistic comments that this is a bad sign of progress for TWOW, but I have the exact opposite take. This is relatively positive sign of progress on GRRM's part. In fact, it's the most positive thing that GRRM has said about TWOW since 2014. Let me explain!
Things GRRM Confirmed

Before we get into why this is positive, just a few things that GRRM confirmed, semi-confirmed and implied:

Areo Hotah will return, almost certainly as a POV character
Given that we'll find out about Darkstar and Ellaria, I think we're going to see it from Areo's POV.
TWOW, Arianne II is done. What I mean by this is that GRRM typically reads chapters at conventions to solicit feedback on the chapters from fans (for instance the ADWD Prologue and ADWD, Jon II) if he's not entirely sure on the direction of the chapter. For ADWD, Jon II, he inserted the famous "Edd, fetch me a block" after fans told GRRM in 2008 that Jon would take after Ned and execute Janos himself. Here's what GRRM said about the ADWD Prologue:

FWIW, I have always found convention readings to be very valuable, especially when I’m doing a chapter than I’ve never read before. - GRRM, notablog, Back from Indianapolis, 7/11/2007

Now, here's something that might be a bit controversial, but... I think that GRRM released this chapter for similar reasons that he released the Alayne chapter last year: he's showing how ASOIAF will be very different from GoT. In this case, I have to wonder how pleased GRRM is with GoT's treatment of the Dorne storyline.

Progress, Real Progress

All right, here you go: this is a super positive step for TWOW's progress. Yes, GRRM said that he wanted TWOW out before S06, and was bummed that it wasn't. However, here, GRRM said something substantial about his TWOW progress:

And no, just to spike any bullshit rumors, changing the sample chapter does NOT mean I am done. See the icon up above? Monkey is still on my back... but he's growing, he is, and one day...

Why is this positive? For one, GRRM isn't just "hopeful he can get it out." It sounds like he's making real progress on writing TWOW. The last time he said something this hopeful was back in 2014 when he released the Mercy chapter. Then, he said:

So far, I have not done anywhere near as much rewriting on WINDS... but of course, it is not done yet. - GRRM Comment, I Broke the Internet, 3/28/2014

So, GRRM is making progress. It's not done (obvs), but it's getting closer, and that's positive!
Conclusion

Just for reference, back in November 2010, GRRM read a partial of ADWD, Davos II. This was about 6 months out from his completion of ADWD. Is it possible that GRRM is 6 months from finishing TWOW? Yes, I think so. In fact, this would line up with my previous estimate that GRRM will release TWOW in early 2017.

Will he though? Time will tell.

P.S. If you want to read every last scrap of info that I've collected on TWOW (well up to September 2015, it needs to be updated), check out my Complete Winds of Winter Resource.

What's the punchline? Is it "check out my Complete Winds of Winter Resource"? You go there and it's the wikipedia for Wild Cards or something?

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Shimrra Jamaane
Aug 10, 2007

Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.
That screenshot is of the older leak. This is the new leak which summarizes the entire season and not just the battle. Except Dany because I guess they don't give a gently caress about her.

quote:

Sansa and Jon start rallying houses to support them in removing the Bolton-rule. Brienne and Pod is sent to the Riverlands to try and get the help from the Tullys. Jon, Sansa and Davos travel to Northern houses. Sansa meets Littlefinger again, and he apologises for giving her to Ramsay, claiming he didn't know. Sansa wants nothing more to do with him. The Starks only get the support from the Hornwoods, another show-only house and they go to Bear Island and meet w. Lyanna Mormont. She support them, but have very few men to spare as well. During this journey, Davos comes across Stannis' old camp near Longlake, where Shireen was sacrificed. He finds the wooden stag-figure he made for her / remnants of it or something. He gets very pissed and confronts Melisandre about it. She admits doing it. Not sure what happens next. No mention of Stannis as far as I'm concerned.

Osha will be killed by Ramsay. Uncertain if she will be on the crosses, and no word on who it may actually be. Rickon will die during the battle. Yes...it was Shaggydog. Ramsay shoots Rickon w. an arrow, when letting him loose, to let him try and run to Jon and Sansa. Most wildlings die during the battle, after being surrounded by the Bolton shield-wall, slowly killing them off. A wall of dead bodies after cavalry and infantry has clashed, is building up. Those inside the shield-wall (Northern bannermen and wildlings), desperatly tries to climb out, and is cut down by Smalljon Umber and his men. Tormund and the others is able to resist the shield-wall in some way. I think Wun Wun manages to make an opening. Davos shouts for all the Northern bannermen etc. to follow Jon into battle. "Follow your commander!" Tormund is able to get out of the shield-wall, and him and Smalljon battles one on one. "Who own the North?????" Smalljon screams and they fight. Tormund kills Smalljon Umber. Harald Karstark is killed by Jon. Harald charges against Jon, as he wants revenge/Stark-blood for what happened to his father (Lord Rickard). Harald is slain by Jon. Warhorns or something makes everyone stop, when thousands of Vale-knights charges and scatter the Bolton/Karstark/Umber-force. The weather is blizzard-like/snowy by this stage of the battle. Ramsay is forced to retreat inside Winterfell. The Umbers and Karstark-men are slain or desserts/flee the battlefield. Wun Wun crushes down the gate to Winterfell. The remaining men are trying to kill Wun Wun, but he doesn't die from what I understand. Ramsay and Jon battles one on one. Jon is pissed and after Ramsay is subdued, Jon beats the poo poo out of him. Almost beats him to death for killing Rickon. Littlefinger and Sansa appears in the courtyard as well. Ramsay is arrested or something. I think it's Sansa who doesn't want him killed, she wants him to stand trial for the treason against her family or something.

In the Riverlands, Brienne and Pod arrives in Jamie's camp. Bronn surprises Pod, with "strangling" him. His way of saying hello. Brienne and Jamie has a discussion in Jamie's tent. He doesn't like that she is siding w. the Tullys. She explains the stuff in the North, but we see more of rear end in a top hat-Jamie from s.1-2 and he doesn't believe in the Others, and he is sent to deal w. the Tullys, not the Boltons. Not his problem etc. Brienne goes inside Riverrun to meet w. the Blackfish. Jamie forces Edmure Tully to surrender Riverrun, as he is the lord, not the Blackfish. Blackfish shoots arrows after the Lannisters. A battle ensues inside Riverrun, and Brienne is barely able to escape. The Blackfish is presumably killed off-screen / uncertain in the ensuing battle. Not sure what happens to Brienne.

The Brotherhood Without Banners is no more apparently. The remnants, led by Thoros of Myr are basicly "theifs of the highway" in the Riverlands or something. Ian McShane's former knight-turned priest character (along w. several other people) is ambushed by the "Brotherhood"-remnants. One of the men accompanying Ian's character is The Hound. Not sure if Ian McShane's character is killed, but several others in their company are killed by the Brotherhood, and the Hound is forced to fight them. He battles Thoros of Myr 1 on 1, and apparently wins.

Arya is sent by the Faceless Men to kill an actress. She refuses to do this for some reason and Jaquen orders the Waif to go after her. Arya kills her and flees Braavos it seems.

Euron is declared king at the Kingsmoot. He wants Dany as queen. Theon and Asha meet up, and they form an alliance, and wants to go against Euron from what I understand. They steal a ship or more (uncertain), and heads for Volantis. They will side w. Daenerys. Euron does little this season. No plunder along the coasts and Oldtown (I think). At least not on-screen.

Bran has a vision about the Children of the Forest "doing something", whe he awakes, he confronts Leaf or some other Child of the Forest about it, and they explain that they basicly created the Others to "protect something", but the Others have turned against them or something. Bran also has a vision of the Night's King and his leutenants (from trailer), and Night's King senses this (grabbing Bran's arm) and finds out the location of the cave. The wights attack. Not sure what happens to the Children or the Three Eyed Raven, but a battle occurs, and Bran, Summer, and Meera is barely able to flee. :siren:Hodor sacrifices himself to hold the "door", so they can escape it seems.:siren: Wights are after them during their journey down to The Wall. When they are pursued, they are saved by Benjen Stark apparently and taken to The Wall, before he departs again. Bran has a vision when he gets to the Wall, where he sees the last of the Tower of Joy-scene. We see Ned and Lyanna and we see a baby crying. Lyanna whispers something to Ned, that we don't hear.

There will be no Clegane-bowl this season. Cersei is apparently refused trial by combat, but she sets The Mountain loose on some Sparrows, which he kills. He also smashes Septa Unella. Not sure what happens to Loras or Margery, but Tommen kills himself. He apparently jumps out of a window in the Red Keep. Quyburn kills Pycelle at least (sends his "Birds").

I uh, hope its not real

Shimrra Jamaane fucked around with this message at 03:32 on May 12, 2016

ZearothK
Aug 25, 2008

I've lost twice, I've failed twice and I've gotten two dishonorable mentions within 7 weeks. But I keep coming back. I am The Trooper!

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2021


That too is stupid enough to be true.

Sally
Jan 9, 2007


Don't post Small Dash!
loving lol


GOT is the greatest comedy on television

The Anime Liker
Aug 8, 2009

by VideoGames
What that dude claims to have "seen on set" would involve wide shots with extras, post production effects, close ups, etc.

In other words, dude's a phony and has no idea how filming works.

Maybe he was on hand for a wide shot of Rickon running out. But he describes the scenes following in terms of post-production with intercut shots of leads and post effects.

Of course reddit would believe him.

SaviourX
Sep 30, 2003

The only true Catwoman is Julie Newmar, Lee Meriwether, or Eartha Kitt.

Yeah, all of that second leak sounds plausible enough to be show-true, and I'm actually okay with 'the Children created the Others' probs to keep R'hllor at bay idea, and most likely it was mashed up in the ongoing game of TV Production Telephone where GRRM told them some good snippets and then they went and played with its arse for a while until they thought of something dumb enough to fit in the show.

Shimrra Jamaane
Aug 10, 2007

Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.
The White Walkers should be their own race with their own origins and motivations. Making them some creation of midget fairy wood elves is just retarded.

JumpinJackFlash
Nov 15, 2001
The white walkers should kill every living person in ASoIaF because gently caress this series and gently caress GRRM.

Shimrra Jamaane
Aug 10, 2007

Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.

JumpinJackFlash posted:

The white walkers should kill every living person in ASoIaF because gently caress this series and gently caress GRRM.

Also this.

Josuke Higashikata
Mar 7, 2013


I'd rather have nothing than anything Martell as a preview.

davecrazy
Nov 25, 2004

I'm an insufferable shitposter who does not deserve to root for such a good team. Also, this is what Matt Harvey thinks of me and my garbage posting.
This thread could probably write a decent spoiler season synopsis.

emanresu tnuocca
Sep 2, 2011

by Athanatos

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

The White Walkers should be their own race with their own origins and motivations. Making them some creation of midget fairy wood elves is just retarded.

Both races are just subspecies of humans though, this is rather strongly implied by the text.

The children can breed with humans, the crannogmen are human/children hybrids. The story of the night's king also implies humans can mate with others though in that story there's no confirmation that they can produce offspring.

Shoehead
Sep 28, 2005

Wassup, Choom?
Ya need sumthin'?
Prose before nachos

Josuke Higashikata
Mar 7, 2013


Shoehead posted:

Prose before nachos

GRRM shudders at the suggestion

Ague Proof
Jun 5, 2014

they told me
I was everything

emanresu tnuocca posted:

The story of the night's king also implies humans can mate with others though in that story there's no confirmation that they can produce offspring.

This was confirmed by art approved by GRRM, which is featured on the AWOIAF wiki.

It also shows this was done on top of the Wall, which is the real reason why the builders added to its height over the years. They wanted to discourage the practice.

Invicta{HOG}, M.D.
Jan 16, 2002

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

That screenshot is of the older leak. This is the new leak which summarizes the entire season and not just the battle. Except Dany because I guess they don't give a gently caress about her.


I uh, hope its not real

I can see where much of it would be but I'm not seeing how Bran "escapes" without someone to carry him.

TommyGun85
Jun 5, 2013

Invicta{HOG}, M.D. posted:

I can see where much of it would be but I'm not seeing how Bran "escapes" without someone to carry him.

especially if Hodor eats it like the spoiler says he does.

sunday at work
Apr 6, 2011

"Man is the animal that thinks something is wrong."

Invicta{HOG}, M.D. posted:

I can see where much of it would be but I'm not seeing how Bran "escapes" without someone to carry him.

Into the tree network somehow?

Invicta{HOG}, M.D.
Jan 16, 2002

sunday at work posted:

Into the tree network somehow?

Who knows, he could be riding Summer or turn into a bat or could be carried by the Children of the Forest but it seems weird to have so much detail but fail to mention how he gets out so I"m betting it's more of an educated guess. It's something that any of us could pretty much put together knowing what we do about the show.

Twoiism
Sep 10, 2008

Ever present.

TommyGun85 posted:

especially if Hodor eats it like the spoiler says he does.

Seems weird he'd die before we discover what happened to him. But maybe one of Bran's other visions fills it in and just isn't mentioned. The rest of those spoilers sound dumb as hell, boring as gently caress and don't advance the plot in any meaningful way, so of course they're 100% legit.

Junkenstein
Oct 22, 2003

I'd be very surprised if the Cleganebowl isn't this season to wrap up Cersei Vs the faith.

Also those spoliers claim Wun Wun doesn't die, but the previous spoiler about Ramsey killing him with an arrow to the eye is SO ShitShow that it has to be right.

Junkenstein fucked around with this message at 14:13 on May 12, 2016

ploots
Mar 19, 2010
lol at cersei vs the faith getting wrapped up this season.

Season 7 ep 1 spoilers: everything is pretty much the same

IRQ
Sep 9, 2001

SUCK A DICK, DUMBSHITS!

Those spoilers are dumb enough to be true, esp because they don't involve Dany getting to Westeros or doing anything at all.

The Anime Liker
Aug 8, 2009

by VideoGames
LOL if you think this dogshit isn't getting dragged out to season 10.

Woodpile
Mar 30, 2013
So, after Bran time fucks with Hodor's mindbrain we come to learn that Hodor is short for "Hold the door".

It's so dumb I hope it's true in the show and books.

Invicta{HOG}, M.D.
Jan 16, 2002

AtAt-de-fay posted:

So, after Bran time fucks with Hodor's mindbrain we come to learn that Hodor is short for "Hold the door".

It's so dumb I hope it's true in the show and books.

Lol I hadn't put that together

TommyGun85
Jun 5, 2013

AtAt-de-fay posted:

So, after Bran time fucks with Hodor's mindbrain we come to learn that Hodor is short for "Hold the door".

It's so dumb I hope it's true in the show and books.

thats why he always repeats it....to remind himself

Mike N Eich
Jan 27, 2007

This might just be the year
Bran warg timetraveling to destroy Hodor's brain is supremely meanspirited and stupid, and it opens the path for him to warg timetravel into Jaime to push himself off the ledge in book 1, which is my favorite shaggydog ending to the series

Intel&Sebastian
Oct 20, 2002

colonel...
i'm trying to sneak around
but i'm dummy thicc
and the clap of my ass cheeks
keeps alerting the guards!
Holy poo poo pull up show PULL UP

Shimrra Jamaane
Aug 10, 2007

Obscure to all except those well-versed in Yuuzhan Vong lore.
IF these spoilers are true how can GRRM look at this poo poo and not feel inspired to get his "true" vision of the series out as soon as possible?

Intel&Sebastian
Oct 20, 2002

colonel...
i'm trying to sneak around
but i'm dummy thicc
and the clap of my ass cheeks
keeps alerting the guards!

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

IF these spoilers are true how can GRRM look at this poo poo and not feel inspired to get his "true" vision of the series out as soon as possible?



Here's the thing that worries me, GRRM is definitely changing his story to spite HBO (see: GRRM changing his story to spite his own smart fans) but things like Rickon, Stannis, and all the other book-alive people dying on the show is a real good indication that they aren't actually important in the books.

So we're either going to get slow walked to the show-deaths with a few changes here and there OR Mr. Pear shaped man is about to take his unruly, complicated, knot of book and gently caress with the tentpoles. I'm not looking forward to either of those, but then again that makes it sound like I was looking forward to WoW at all.

Invicta{HOG}, M.D.
Jan 16, 2002
Dear lord Hodor Hold Door that would just be the worst. It's too bad GURM will never give us the true secret of Hodor and Old Nan but I'm sure it would be much cooler than that.

Krinkle
Feb 9, 2003

Ah do believe Ah've got the vapors...
Ah mean the farts


Is the new chapter just a reprint of that old dorne chapter? Or a new dorne chapter?

Junkenstein
Oct 22, 2003

Krinkle posted:

Is the new chapter just a reprint of that old dorne chapter? Or a new dorne chapter?

Any question regarding GRUM will always have the answer that points to the least amount of writing done.

IRQ
Sep 9, 2001

SUCK A DICK, DUMBSHITS!

Krinkle posted:

Is the new chapter just a reprint of that old dorne chapter? Or a new dorne chapter?

It's a chapter that was supposedly completed in 2010 and read at some convention in 2011.

So this is classic Gurm.

24-7 Urkel Cosplay
Feb 12, 2003

Invicta{HOG}, M.D. posted:

Dear lord Hodor Hold Door that would just be the worst. It's too bad GURM will never give us the true secret of Hodor and Old Nan but I'm sure it would be much cooler than that.

I thought it was never going to be explained in the books, there's no need for it. He has broca's aphasia but obviously no one would be able to diagnose that, so it's just Hodor being Hodor.

esperterra
Mar 24, 2010

SHINee's back




A GLISTENING HODOR posted:

LOL if you think this dogshit isn't getting dragged out to season 10.

HBO has been begging them to extend the show for a couple years now, but D&D want to finish it in 13 episodes after this season, in a 7 ep season and an 6 ep season.

Which is way worse, really.

Cartouche
Jan 4, 2011

quote:

Yes, GRRM said that he wanted TWOW out before S06, and was bummed that it wasn't.
:psyduck:

Groovelord Neato
Dec 6, 2014


Shimrra Jamaane posted:

The White Walkers should be their own race with their own origins and motivations. Making them some creation of midget fairy wood elves is just retarded.

i mean they were already retarded and uninteresting so it's good if they go full retard despite what rdj said in tropic thunder.

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Intel&Sebastian
Oct 20, 2002

colonel...
i'm trying to sneak around
but i'm dummy thicc
and the clap of my ass cheeks
keeps alerting the guards!
I don't mind them as silent antagonists. Their king dude raising up the dead at Hardhome was one of the better moments of the whole series.

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